STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Creature]

Anyone remember whom the Crystal Gems and the Leftovers allied with?

[Creature]

Nvm, if there are 3 scum left, it's basically overkill for town.

[grapes]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

[Reasonably Rational]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

Oh look rr said he has a scum read but uses why would the mod give info to scum like that to let creature fly by.

Yet rr thinks so little of Varsoon to think he would tell players the name of a player that rb you and that player is scum.

Yup, nothing scummy about rr continue tunneling, right grapes?

You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice. If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

The scum triggered an event where they gained an extra kill if a scum lynch happened today. This is weak evidence that the scum team expected to lose a member today. Looking at just that, the lynch pool for today should be {TWIE, Farside} as those were the top suspects of Titus and Mastin, plus Titus dying along with how Farside unilaterally and scummily ended the day yesterday was going to put her squarely in the crosshairs. I can't give you much of a case on TWIE because he hasn't posted a whole lot. That could go either way though because he tends to be a late game player. In my reads list to A50 I instructed him to relay our wish that TWIE be put under heavy pressure if he didn't start looking like he was invested and gamesolving by day 6.

I don't know what to make of his claim that he vigged Farside but she didn't die, and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in explaining it. Farside, on the other hand, opened the day demanding whomever had targeted her to claim. TWIE is the only person to have claimed to target her ... but it was with a kill. I'm pretty sure ascetic doesn't block kills? But then Farside said in post #9618 that she is "ascentic" (immune) from all action except being shot by scum. If Scum!Farside, then that post is just window dressing. If Farside is actually 3P, that sort of makes sense. Town!Farside is a miniscule possibility at this point and would require her to have intentionally game thrown, and I just don't see that being realistic.

So Grapes ... if Creature hasn't stuck his head in the noose far enough for you (for me the fact that he could have investigated the gems and didn't do so is kind of the clincher), penny for your thoughts?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

Do you think he's telling the truth about being able to investigate the "true nature" of the crystal gems?

If so, what implications do you draw from that?

I'm on the fence about it. He could have already done it and didn't. It's confusing why he didn't tell the game right away as well. It took us a LOT of posts that leaked the fact that there was communication going on between parties in some unclaimed PT and then some other information to realize there was an actual separate faction for the gems, and he started the game with enough info to know that, if he's telling the truth. So part of me wants to leave him alive and hope stress raises and hope he's telling the truth and can clear up the questions ... but another part of me feels like the claim is specifically designed to appeal to the fact that Cerb and I are suspicious that the Crystal Gems faction has been hiding something from us (reinforced by the fact that MoI only chooses to come after us when we are actively talking about the gems and drops us out of his posts when we drop it).

What do YOU think though Grapes?

~Drixx

[farside22]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

Oh look rr said he has a scum read but uses why would the mod give info to scum like that to let creature fly by.

Yet rr thinks so little of Varsoon to think he would tell players the name of a player that rb you and that player is scum.

Yup, nothing scummy about rr continue tunneling, right grapes?

You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice. If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

~Drixx

No where in the post I quoted are you figuring creature out.
You are giving him a free pass.
Plain and simple.

[farside22]

Not really feeling a creature lynch tbh.

The scum triggered an event where they gained an extra kill if a scum lynch happened today. This is weak evidence that the scum team expected to lose a member today. Looking at just that, the lynch pool for today should be {TWIE, Farside} as those were the top suspects of Titus and Mastin, plus Titus dying along with how Farside unilaterally and scummily ended the day yesterday was going to put her squarely in the crosshairs. I can't give you much of a case on TWIE because he hasn't posted a whole lot. That could go either way though because he tends to be a late game player. In my reads list to A50 I instructed him to relay our wish that TWIE be put under heavy pressure if he didn't start looking like he was invested and gamesolving by day 6.

I don't know what to make of his claim that he vigged Farside but she didn't die, and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in explaining it. Farside, on the other hand, opened the day demanding whomever had targeted her to claim. TWIE is the only person to have claimed to target her ... but it was with a kill. I'm pretty sure ascetic doesn't block kills? But then Farside said in post #9618 that she is "ascentic" (immune) from all action except being shot by scum. If Scum!Farside, then that post is just window dressing. If Farside is actually 3P, that sort of makes sense. Town!Farside is a miniscule possibility at this point and would require her to have intentionally game thrown, and I just don't see that being realistic.

So Grapes ... if Creature hasn't stuck his head in the noose far enough for you (for me the fact that he could have investigated the gems and didn't do so is kind of the clincher), penny for your thoughts?

~Drixx

This is were your theories read as scummy or dumb as shit.
Since we are exchanging insults I think that is fair to say.

If scum wanted to use that event to the fullest there would have been more players who could vote.
It's not that hard to understand since you were the one ranting that scum wanted a no lynch.
Again you being the player who wants both things to be true and they can't be.

[Creature]

Is stress increase still possible not considering town lynches?

[Reasonably Rational]

One only needed to look at Steven Universe to see that assuming someone with Day 1 access to Steven was town. Several, including us, pointed that out. Don't straw man ... it undercuts your credibility.

~Drixx

You are missing the point. If Connie-fake claim can actually be scum (which you point out that people bought) then why does Creature think his blog whatever confirms him as town and couldn't just as easily be a scum ability that matches his fake-claim?

Seriously - stay on point with the actual salient information.

The blog doesn't at all clear him. That doesn't change what you did from being a straw man attack.

The question I have is this:

WHY would scum be given an ability to find out the nature of the gems, as Creature has claimed? He claims you would be notified he found out.

-- The only reason the scum would need a reason to find out the nature of the gems is if they are somehow compatible.

So ummm ... if Creature is left alive and does his thing, he can both inform the town that you have told the truth (presuming you have), and you will have hard evidence that he had the ability to learn the nature of your faction. So if you don't believe scum would have that ability, the obvious course is to force him to do it, right?

Oh look rr said he has a scum read but uses why would the mod give info to scum like that to let creature fly by.

Yet rr thinks so little of Varsoon to think he would tell players the name of a player that rb you and that player is scum.

Yup, nothing scummy about rr continue tunneling, right grapes?

You need to fucking stop it Farside. You've spent this entire game pretending that you are stupid and incapable of understanding nuance, temporal order, causality, or even basic reasoning. You're not stupid and I know you understand all of those things and yet you've spent literally the entire game pretending you didn't. At one point you were

CERTAIN

that Titus was scum and you shit on this game for 50 pages with her, and you are now trying to do the same thing with us. It would take me HOURS to go through this thread and quote every time you lied, pretended you didn't understand temporal order, pretended you didn't understand how and why a read changed, etc... You never address any of the points in the case against you because you know we have you nailed. You just constantly try to throw shade on us by manipulation and cherry picking, same as you did to Titus.

Reality is that things happen in a specific order. Creature has been in my pool of possible scum as far back as day 3. That pool is larger than the amount of scum could possibly be. That means more work is needed. I can view someone's posts as scummy (and Creature has posted a few dandies today) and also see the other side of the coin. That's how you're supposed to play the game. I know you have a hard time with the whole "I need to consider both possibilities" thing, but just follow me here.

The only way a member of the scum team would be given an ability to investigate the "nature" of the gems (presumably this means wincon, but Creature hasn't elaborated) is if the scum team and crystal gems are somehow compatible. While that exists in the

possibility space

, it has such a low probability, imo, as to be not even worth seriously considering. That means that if Creature can PROVE he's telling the truth about that, then Magna would KNOW that Creature has that ability, and then the probability of him being scum goes down so far that he goes on the "consider only in M/LYLO" pile.

But Creature already had a chance to use that ability and didn't do so, and his excuse for not doing so is underwhelming, at best.

You're not stupid, and when you continue to pretend to be stupid to try and throw shade on us, it just makes you look worse. Stop with the shitposting. This is the last time I'll be responding to a post where you play dumb and pretend you don't understand nuance and that you can't see we're actually trying to figure Creature out rather than deciding ahead of time and trying to justify that choice. If you want to pretend you are stupid, then have fun talking to yourself. Otherwise start being intellectually honest because, at this point, if you flip town I will consider you to have intentionally tried to throw the game, given your play.

~Drixx

No where in the post I quoted are you figuring creature out.
You are giving him a free pass.
Plain and simple.

Wrong. Again. I'll leave you to figure it out. Try to do some game solving instead of slinging mud to try and desperately avoid the rope.

~Drixx

[farside22]

Whatever you say scummy butt.

[Reasonably Rational]

Whatever you say scummy butt.

In other words, you give up?

~D

[farside22]

Whatever you say scummy butt.

In other words, you give up?

~D

[Almost50]

@MoI / @Chara:

farside is very likely scum for her style of arguing back and forth in every chance she has. Look at how it went with Titus, and she blamed Titus. FINE. Titus is gone, and she found another target to continue the same attitude in RR.

It makes perfect sense to me that farside had planned ahead and joined the scum AFTER the Beachabalooza voting (around the same time Xk joined the CGs) thus had no need for anyone to cover for her. That or -less likely- she used her voting ability to cover up for herself.

She's also posting way too much 9about 10% of the thread posts are by farside alone) and is deliberately wall-quoting to make it absolutely hard for anyone to try and ISO her.

But I have yet another "weird" method I had tried to apply to catch scum, and that is to reference the SIRCAKEZ readlist(s) and progression, but before that I'd like to point out Cakez did defend farside in #934 which MoI already quoted parts of, and I don't see how this post implicates Creature yet vendicates far!!

Now let's move on to THIS:

Town: Fire, Not Chara, mastin, grapes, farside
Nulltown: Yume, Creature, Klingon, A50, CoolDog
Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB
Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky
Scum: Mcmenno, Obi

Unreadable: RR

Town: Fire, mastin, grapes, farside, Yume
Nulltown: Creature, Klingon, A50, Seraphim
Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB, NC, CoolDog
Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky
Scum: McMenno, Obi

Town: Fire, mastin, farside, Yume
Nulltown: Creature, A50, Seraphim, NC, grapes, Seraphim
Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Skybird, Random, TWIE, DGB, CoolDog, Klingon
Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky, Shiro, Foxbird
Scum: McMenno, Obi, Reasonably Rational

There is one townread I have that might be wrong, but I'm still thinking it over.

Town: Fire, mastin, farside, Yume
Nulltown: Creature, A50, Seraphim, NC, grapes, Seraphim, Kraskaesque,
Null: KTS, Skybird, Random, TWIE, DGB, Snarky
Nullscum: Shiro, Foxbird, CoolDog, Klingon
Scum: McMenno, Obi, Reasonably Rational, Xkfyu

The progression of these 4 readlists clearly show Cakez wanted to move his buddies up the list gradually, while maintaining "one town read might be wrong" just in case one got flipped.

This -to me- reads the scum team consisted of: farside (for sure), Creature/Fuzzy (one or both), Sky/TWIE (Sky already flipped and TWIE is only Scum if either Creature or Fuzzy flips Town).

So, farside has now moved to the very top of my lynch pile. Creaure is her second, Fuzzy comes third, followed by TWIE if the game hasn't ended by then.

VOTE: farside

[mastin2]

Scum are in TWIE/Step_Shadow/kraskaesque. kraska's 9297 is a change of tone in preparation to finally let a mislynch occur on farside. (whose play -AGAIN- is EXTREMELY anti-town and has indeed managed to push me over the limites).

Pretty much yeah.
But I've lost all energy to fight.

[Creature]

idk, I have the feeling TWIE is a better lynch.

[mastin2]

Oh, and

Vote: TheWayItEnds

.

[Reasonably Rational]

TWIE is at a virtual l-1 just so anyone who cares knows.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That's mainly directed at you mastin2. The other two voting TWIE are the people we'd lynch instead of him, so I wouldn't expect them to csre. :p

-Cerb

[mastin2]

VOTE: Creature

Creature is the Keep Beach City Weird player.

Does this change your analysis any?

[mastin2]

Not Chara's preference for lynch today is TWIE, Shiro and Creature in approximately that order.

Honestly the main reason I've been clearing Shiro is because I'm trusting Almost50 here.

[Reasonably Rational]

Not Chara's preference for lynch today is TWIE, Shiro and Creature in approximately that order.

Honestly the main reason I've been clearing Shiro is because I'm trusting Almost50 here.

A50s (flavor based) reason for clearing shiro was wrong. Idk how he feels about him now.

-Cerb

[mastin2]

Why the hell didn't you say that before?? So the unflipped can still communicate with you until they are flipped? THAT sounds like a VERY GOOD reason to keep some players unflipped.

For what it's worth: MoI's not lying. Yume told me about this ability WAY back, on D1 I think. If not, definitely by D2.

[Almost50]

A50s (flavor based) reason for clearing shiro was wrong. Idk how he feels about him now.

Not really. I'm town reading Shiro for the REACTION when he realized he had been wrong about his early scum read on me. He could've kept pushing or at least put me in the null pile. I'm not exactly unlynchable you know (unlike you)

And @ Mastina:

With all due respect, you already had it your way with Snarky and were proven wrong. Can you please let us have it someone else's way this time around, for the good sportsmanship spirit and all??

[Almost50]

And by that I mean, Titus wanted farside lynched. RR wants her lynched. I want her lynched. I'm sure there are/have been a couple more at least who would rather see her flip, and besides she's never going to be cleared so the sooner we eliminate her the better.. before we are close enough to LyLo and start gambling. If she flips town I promise to vote with you on whomever you wish tomorrow.