Mini Normal #1838 Mafia PT

[Prism]

Well, two people asked me to point them in the right direction on LUV

It's time to give them the runaround, finish my wall of a project read on Zoronos tomorrow along with a throwaway pointer halfway through to #1686 and #1689 which aren't fleshed out enough for anyone to really find very convincing, and then actually explain it later if appropriate.

Here's hoping for Zoro or PP.

[boring]

I'm not entirely sure that I follow what you mean. I'm definitely going to try to make it to LYLO with you, but I'm not sure I'm as likely to win it as you. I'll keep treating you like it's TvT. I was just commenting on our lack of interaction for better or for worse.

I'm hoping if I'm lynched soonish, I'll point to grendel as my partner.

I think we have to kill Gamma tonight, unless we think there's a protective role in the game.

[boring]

LUV, it's usually crazy-easy to get Gamma to change his vote. I've done it twice in this game alone (once to get him off you, and the other to get him off me). Basically, summarize his case in a way that makes it look petty. He'll rethink it and unvote.

I'm not sure which is more your style, but I'd question a) him being on the wagon I'm pushing, since I'm a scumlean, or b) question whether or not it's perfectly normal to change one's mind on reads, based on what the rest of town is saying, c) question his reason for leaving penguin, when penguin was the one who forced the claim out of him, even after he softed that he was a PR.

Or whatever works for you. If he leaves you, he'll probably switch to penguin. Implosion is likely to leave you eventually and vote me again too, so I think we're doing okay.

I just soft-defended penguin, which I'm hoping will scoot people from the fence onto his wagon instead of yours.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm trying to point out why Prisim's case is weak but no one seems to understand the difference between what I said and he said.

The last one seems to fit for me, everyone being off Penguin doesn't make any sense to me.

[boring]

Nor me. Especially since they're scumreading me. I'm hoping that last comment will knock out any chances of Zoronos being on your wagon.

It's a win-win for all of us if it works. I chase you, they decide they can't stomach it and lynch town. Prism can flip-flop a bit, since he's townread. Then I keep chasing you tomorrow. Eventually one of us will flip (we can't all make it to the end, I don't think) and the other will look town.

One thing though, we can't have any mislynch targets accidentally turning out to be PRs. I suggest we take our most vulnerable target at the end of D2, and I Neo them, just to be sure. Gamma being cop really put a wrench in things.

We'll not be able to get him or implosion lynched, like, ever.

[boring]

I knew I should have gotten nervous when I saw that we have daytalk. The more I think about it, the more dire things look.

we basically have 3 conf. town, and another tomorrow (or one less scum), unless we kill Gamma tonight. But how likely is Gamma to go unprotected?

So at the moment, our lynch pool is grendel, zoronos, nn30, dierfire, PP, and that's it, I think.

Shadow, Gamma, and implosion have to be killed off by us. The best thing we have going for us is how easy all three of them are to undermine. Well, implosion isn't quite as easy, but the other two sure are. We have to encourage anything that takes away their credibility as the voice of town. If they can't hold sway, their power is diminished to a single vote.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well this is probably be my final hour, going to fake claim and hope it works but if not, wishing both of you luck!

[boring]

Wait. Dierfire got me. Like, his argument is absolutely beautiful. If any of them have some sense, (unless they're all harboring secret doubts about nn30), they'll stop what they're doing and lynch me.

It might clear you. Wait until someone claims intent before trying a gambit.

[boring]

OMG, shadow, really?

If you listen really close, you can hear our great mod in the sky and Dierfire facepalming in unison.


Okay, so it looks like an intent to hammer on LUV. PR-fish/gambit at will!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Going for it! And yeah Dierfire got it on the nail!

[Prism]

First Gamma now Zoronos. Why does everyone lynchable have to be a PR? I want to scream.

[boring]

So.... there are 4 conf. town now. If we can't get LUV in that crowd (or kick Shadow out of it), then we lose.

[boring]

okay, swinging back to trying to make Shadow look like my buddy.

[Prism]

Everyone wants to switch to boring post-LUV wagon and I'm sitting here like "Yeah let's get her!" but in reality I'm more like

[boring]

yeah, I'm sorry. I guess I shouldn't have been so eager to vote eager, but honestly, it seems like I was targeted in the game long before anything remotely scummy happened.

Anyway, I think you guys can get away with letting LUV pretend to be doc, if you're careful with your kill tonight. Or maybe, kill Gamma, and have LUV claim he was jailblocked or something OOOOO! Strongman! They'll believe all the claims if they believe there could be an x-host strongman on the mafia side, right? And it's a perfect excuse to kill Gamma. Their entire purpose seems to be to eliminate a follow-the-cop game.

I was looking up the normal rules, and you only need a single vanilla town to be "Normal". If there's a strong-looking scum team, it'll help.

In fact, my lynch may serve to support that. Have LUV come back D3 and swear up and down and until he's blue in the face that he targeted Gamma. He could vaguely accuse Zoronos of keeping him, or wonder if there's a strongman.

At least, that's my best idea at the moment.


By the way, just for the sake of confusion, once I'm threatened with intent, I'm thinking of claiming Watcher. It would go in theme I could say I watched Shadow because I figured he'd be killed. I have plenty of "breadcrumbs" to support that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Faked anger to hopefully get them rethink things.

[Prism]

The name of the game is "How badly can they manage to fuck this one up?" because this is town's game to lose.

Implosion/Zoronos are ready to take the game and go home. Until they're both dead me/boring are both in a lot of danger, and that won't be for at least three more nights.

If Zoronos jails right tonight we're fucked. I really want to kill Implosion over Zoronos N3 but I doubt we'll be able to afford it-a scum lynch Day 3 or Day 4 gives town a guaranteed clear at best, the last scum on a platter at worst.

[podoboq]

Lil Uzi Vert, Mafia Goon, was lynched Day 2.

It is now Night 2. Please PM all night actions to me by the deadline, or bold them in your associated private thread.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-29 08:44:00)

[podoboq]

LUV, you are entitled to one "bah" post in here, but nothing significant. Any real cheer leading or debriefing you want to do has to happen inside the dead thread.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ah knew I had no chance of living. Good luck guys.

[boring]

Okay, wow.

Yeah, I'm not sure what we should do. If we kill Zoronos, it gives Gamma one more night to confirm another town or find one of us. If we kill Gamma, there's a chance Zoronos will jailkeep him and save him.

Should we play it safe and kill Zoronos, or take a risk and kill Gamma?


wait.. @mod, is there any way we can know the order in which actions are resolved? If Zoronos jailkeeps Gamma, and we kill Zoronos, will Gamma still be blocked from investigation?

I'm thinking we should Neo PP, by the way, just to make sure he's not yet another PR or modified town.

[boring]

By the way, LUV, you did awesome. We've gotten the PRs identified, so we're less likely to make any more big mistakes. Plus, we've (hopefully) boosted towncred with your bus. If we manage a win, it's because of what we all did together today.

[podoboq]

@mod, is there any way we can know the order in which actions are resolved? If Zoronos jailkeeps Gamma, and we kill Zoronos, will Gamma still be blocked from investigation?

In the event that a Jailkeeper targets a Cop, and the Mafia kills the Jailkeeper, the Cop will still receive no result.

This page on the wiki is helpful for determining the standard resolution of night actions.


EDIT: On reflection, Natural Action Resolution isn't relevant in this context. An ability happens irrespective of whether or not the person using it will survive the night. For example, a Cop still receives a result even on the night that they'd die. Think of it like throwing a grenade. The grenade will go off whether or not you shoot the person who threw it.

[Prism]

We hit Gamma here. Zoronos will not jail Gamma as this gives town no information (It's an even number of players and thus town wants a night death) and leaves them negative at worst (Zoronos dies and blocked Gamma in the process)

Therefore he will jail outside. If he jails correctly, regardless of who we kill, they will get a cop report and a confirmed scum via jailblock no matter what. We can't control that. So assuming he jails incorrectly, if we kill him they still get a cop report, versus if we kill Gamma they only have the jail information (useless as two mafia-he could have just jailed the wrong one)

We must also kill Zoronos N3 regardless of who is lynched tomorrow. If only one scum is left, the player jailed the night he dies is clear. He will announce his jail publicly beforehand. WIFOMing a no kill to get a mislynch is possible N3, but at some point he will have to be killed (and town therefore granted a clear in a one scum scenario)

Note that in the event one of us WIFOMs with a no kill to get a mislynch, we are forced to kill the next night or else we give them a mislynch for free. Think of it as though you got a lynch on MYLO and then no killed-it's the same thing, but with different # of mislynches remaining.

[Prism]

I feel like we shouldn't neo PP. We don't really care too much if he's a PR. He's the major alternative lynch to you-if you're successful Day 2 he'll be forced to claim anyway. Even if he is a PR who's not forced to claim he won't be immune like Zoro and Shadow, and we already know Zoro is whi we need to kill N3.

We already know what Gamma/Zoro/Shadow/Implosion are. We know we don't want PP. That leaves nn30, Dierfire, and Grendel. I think all three are pretty good neo targets, my first instinct would be to neo Grendel but that's just instinct-I've barely read any of yhe three.