Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[boring]

Okay Zoronos, I see that you provided some info on your Grendel read recently.

Grendel - actively scummy. Used NAI information repeatedly to build his cases

I agree that Grendel has made a few NAI points, but that can be said of many players. Meta isn't NAI, but I know you're not fond of it. He's also shared statistics and data from previous games. While I realize we just have to take his word for it, it would be a strange gimmick for scum. It gives me more of a game-solvey vibe.

persisted bad cases even when warned off them

Persisting in bad cases when warned off them is more likely to earn town points than scum points in my book. Scum are more likely to respond to correction than town, as they're trying to survive, not solve.

associatives with LUV look like partner-play (see: asking questions without concern for followup, largely ignoring him)

I'll skim through Grendel's and LUV's combined ISO's, unless you've given us examples, and I've just forgotten. If you're thinking of any post combinations in particular, please let me know.

vote position seems to more likely than not indicate a bus as does his certainty that LUV's doctor claim was fake.

I'll concede that point, but it's not enough to lynch someone.

[boring]

Okay, I'm super thrilled about this Grendel wagon. I certainly don't see why he's so high on everyone's scum list. I'm not holding him up as "for sure town", but why is he the top scum read?!

Anyone voting him, please give me a tl;dr, or point me to posts that you think are the most succinct arguments for his lynch.

Wow.

I meant that I'm not super thrilled about this Grendel wagon.

[boring]

Shadow took almost no convincing to be the first off Dier'w wagon. He then decided to hammer Dier's counterwagon, which Dier was on. Then, he votes Deir right out the gate today.

I called it yesterday, and I'm calling it today, he'll use/find any excuse to get off Deir again before the hammer.

Let's speed this farce up, hmm?

VOTE: Dierfire

[boring]

2 conf townies wanted to lynch Grendel instead. You are reading the game aren't you ?

It's rather out of character for you to sheep, isn't it?

To the rest of the class, does anyone really believe that the coincidence of being confirmed town is going to alter reality to make them any more right than otherwise? The only benefit we got from that wagon is a strong likelihood that both scum were on it, under the cover of sheeping/"agreeing with" conf. town.

[boring]

Not out of character. DF lynch wasn't likely to happen and I wasn't going to no lynch.

So you think both scum were voting Df but you still vote him anyway?

Are you even trying at this point?

1) I had already stated intent to hammer DF, and he was at L-1. It was absolutely going to happen. Why do you think people fell for your stupid fake-hammer? Remember? You fake-hammered DF, and then you hopped off the wagon first at the least suggestion from Implosion, taking Dier from L-1 with intent to hammer to nothing special.

2) I was talking about the Grendel wagon having 1-2 scum on it. You know, the one that had the conf. town support, and was a counterwagon to DF? The one ripe for sheeping? The one you sheeped? That wagon. Grendel's. Grendel's wagon.

3) I'm voting Dierfire because I think he's scum with you, and I'm waiting for you to ditch his wagon just before the lynch again. Of course, there's also the problem that for reasons far beyond my comprehension, no one seems open to the idea that you're scum. Even if you're just really, really bad town, he remains likely scum. I figure having everyone watch you leave his wagon again will help my case. If you do somehow follow through this time, that's great too. I see it as a win-win.

[boring]

After this amount of prodding I don't see Shadow hopping off the Dier wagon now, however.

Like I said, win-win.

But really, I did my #inb4 yesterday, and he still hopped off.

Spoiler:

inB4 Shadow realizes Dierfire might actually get lynched, and makes an excuse to hop off the wagon.

[boring]

@podoboq, I'm V/LA until next weekend. I should be able to keep up (barely) with a post or two a day, but I may have a day or two without activity.

[boring]

Holy crap guys!

Okay first off, welcome to the game, Black Void! I really appreciate the instant improvement in the game's tone that occurred when you subbed in.

Unfortunately, a better tone doesn't change a slot's role-assignment.

Alright, that basically removes any doubt I had about the Shadow slot. Black gave that list in 30 mins, there's no way he faked it. Those reads were legit and I doubt it was convenient to keep the same reads as scum. Maybe he could have gone back and revised just one/two but there's no way the whole thing is fake.

He could very well have made a couple easy tweaks to his "stream of consciousness". Regardless, how long would it take to type something like that up? 5 minutes, if you have an excuse not to edit. There's nothing original in there, either. His every post thus far is middle-of-the-road designed to appease our lovely conf. town.

My gut says it's Black Void. Here's why:

Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.

If you're reading a game and you don't have a role pm, you're a ghost with a town's perspective.

This quote suggests that Black Void's reading of the game changed when he received his role pm - suggesting he received a scum pm.

Thoughts?

I makes me question why you're on my wagon with him if you think he has ulterior motives. Since it's clearly unlikely that I'm SvS with that slot, why not vote Dierfire? He's likely scum in either scenario (me or Blackvoid), and it gives you time to decide what to do next.

We need to have as many scum lynches as town in order to survive to the end (preferably more scum than town!), so we need to lynch the player that's in nearly everyone's bottom two by POE (i.e., DIERFIRE).

p-edit: I started writing this like an hour ago and got distracted. In the meantime, i was ninja'd by like 5 or so posts. Hopefully I haven't posted moot. I'm too pressed for time to read again. I'll try to be back tomorrow. Sorry.

[boring]

VOTE: Boring

[boring]

Whoops, sorry podoboq. I was trying to squeeze some reactions from the players, not fake you out. Though, on the positive side, it was convincing! If only mornings were more active...

[boring]

crap. sorry.

UNVOTE:

I forgot to do that.

[boring]

VOTE: Dierfire

[boring]

Look, it's been obvious since Day 1 that I wasn't making it to LYLO, and I can live with that. But I'll be damned if I have to be killed off early and still have to suffer a loss.

What the hell are you smoking, nn30? Do you honestly think Zoronos is scum?! I've been resistant to the idea that you're scum for a while now because there were scummier players in the game, but this reeks of desperation.

Because here's the thing: Once I'm gone, mislynches are going to be pretty thin on the ground. I've been spending the last week or two assuming that the scum team is S_s/BV and Dierfire. But if it isn't, and you're the scum, then I can see a reason to panic. If it's actually you and Deir (which would explain your recent lines of questioning), then you'd have to manage one more mislynch among Implosion, Zoronos, Prism, and Black Void. I guess I could be totally wrong, and it could be you and Prism too.

Actually, @Prism - What do you think of nn's sudden turn on Zoronos?

I guess you being scum would also explain why you're so very twitchy about the slightest hints that you might be scum, and why you always try to force others to do the research for you. It's a pretty typical power play, and it's something I've been observing all game. I had pretty much chalked it down to your personality, but if someone's doing a meta dive, they might as well check for that.


p-edit: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO ONE LYNCH ZORONOS!

VOTE: nn30

[boring]

I take it back. If it was nn30 and Prism, they'd still have Dierfire for tomorrow's mislynch. It's got to be nn30 and Dierfire. There's no other reasonable explanation for this behavior.

[boring]

@Boring - please meta dive me. I think you'll find my styles between this and my completed scum game to be wildly different. What you decide that means is up to you.

How about this: you meta dive yourself and show us how they're different. Take responsibility for your own arguments rather than delegating to other.

[boring]

I already answered this

What, exactly, is desperate about this?

Why, as scum, would I stick my neck out in this way? Zoro is one of the most town read players in this game.

here

Because here's the thing: Once I'm gone, mislynches are going to be pretty thin on the ground. I've been spending the last week or two assuming that the scum team is S_s/BV and Dierfire. But if it isn't, and you're the scum, then I can see a reason to panic. If it's actually you and Deir (which would explain your recent lines of questioning), then you'd have to manage one more mislynch among Implosion, Zoronos, Prism, and Black Void.

To expand, I speculate that you two must have thought of some fancy little scheme, and you're pushing to test the waters. You've already gotten away with back off a read and sheeping town already with the "I can't trust myself" excuse, so why not pull it again?

[boring]

Nah. The point of a meta dive is to come to your own conclusions. I can't force that on anyone.

The point I was making is that you are delegating case-making again, rather than doing it yourself. It's especially blatant when it would take us hours, and you a few moments. As I said before, it's a power play. It allows you to sit back and blame others for not doing your legwork.

What'd you get out of your 'reaction test' from earlier by the way? Interesting that you explained it that way but never actually followed up.

because it was instantly negated by the mod's post, which appeared directly after it. It's a risk I run using a move like that.

[boring]

I'm not upset, Prism. You did a good job despite your busy schedule. Besides, if LUV and I had made better decisions early in the game, you wouldn't have had to go it alone for two whole cycles.

Congratulations, town, and thank you podoboq! This was a really fun game, and I learned a lot.

[boring]

Oh, and everyone please ignore my frequent incidents of smack talk and mental breaks throughout the Mafia and Dead PTs. Please and thank you.

[boring]

Podoboq, I've been waiting pretty impatiently...

I'd really like to know your thoughts on how the game setup panned out. Specifically, if things unfolded more or less as you imagined.

P-edit: I agreed with your choice too, gamma. He was stubborn enough to rub people the wrong way, and persuasive enough to influence town. Whether he was town or scum, town needed to know.

[boring]

-_- don't remind me.