In post 2264, Zoronos wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:I find it dumb that your first response to the kill going through is "Oh, Well, Scum must have role blocking power, or a strongman kill", instead of, "the night kill went through so maybe Grendel is town".
I already went over why this is likely, and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that it was Gamma that was killed. The short version is no sane scum team kills Gamma over me without some jail breaking ability.
Well a role blocker doesn’t make sense with a Jail keeper because of the impending priority clashes. Games with both a jail keeper and a role blocker are very rare here. A strong man doesn’t make sense with two town aesthetics because it’d mean that scum get three free kills. Which would be unbalanced. A rolestopper could work, but isn’t a common role. Though, there is the chance I am wrong here. Ultimately it’s not something I need to spend much time adderssing.
You were super vocal about other people using night analysis, but you are now okay with using it because that’s the extent you want me to be scum. That’d you’d take up methods of game play that you previously wrote off has unhelpful, and push it on me.
In post 2264, Zoronos wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:Its the equivalent of a tracker watching a suspect that didn't move at night and going into the next day with a vote on the person who didn't make the kill. What's worse is that with only two mafia left, there would have been a 50% chance that you'd block a kill. So me being 50%less likely to be scum Obviously means nothing to you. You're frosting a card board cake, you want that sweet conclusion of Grendel!scum so you stretch the ingredients you're given to meet the taste you want.
Only a fool thinks this way; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That I didn't get an active hit doesn't change my priors (which were that you were scum). If I went 'Well, I guess I didn't stop the kill, he must be town' I would be the worst jailkeeper player ever unless I knew there was only one scum remaining. It doesn't change the odds that you're scum at all. I scum read you, ergo I jailed you. The results of my (negative) jail have no impact on my reads. Tying those correlations together without further knowledge about how the kill happened is awful play.
Also, belaboring that point with attacks on credibility is super scummy. So.
I’m not saying that you should read me as confirmed town. I’m saying that the night kill going through should have given you some pause to reevaluate. This did not happen afaik and that suggests to me that you’d scum read me whether or not you had evidence point towards scum!Grendel. Also, before you start running your mouth that I’m ignoring that you brought other points to the table, no I’m not. I'm just saying in this instance you would still want to scum read me even if every detail was appernt that I'm town.
How is me telling you that you are being unreasonable with your concclusions scummy?quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8468223#p8468223]post 2264 [/url], Zoronos"]
In post 2263, Grendel wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:In short, you are setting your self up for a terribad tunnel.
Calls case tunnel. Check.
In post 2263, Grendel wrote:If you don't like me you should come out and say it instead of finding excuses to sr me.

Attempts to discredit case by calling it personal rather than addressing the points. Check.
That’s not what I said. I said that you are setting yourself up for a tunnel. Predicting what is coming, is different than saying what is.
Dude it’s pretty clear that you don’t like me with how you intentionally step on my toes every chance you get. Every time I do anything this game you follow up with some remark about how the avenues I’m pursing are a waste of time, and how my cases are crap. Like I can’t have my own opiian, or god forbid be right about something. Its like you had to go back and rub in how your more experienced you are, and show me up whenever you can! And no, you saying that its just about a case and not my play style is a lie, you have a low opinion of me, all it takes is some reading in between the lines to see that. Even in this postr your inferring that I wasn’t feel horrible that I tunneled Gamma into claiming, which led to his nk. I legitimately thought he was scum then! So yes, you’re against me, on personal grounds, because I have no idea why you’d keep insinuating things like this unless you have a low opinion of me in the first place!
In post 2264, Zoronos wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:In post 2263, Grendel wrote:Meta is not garbage, and my case on Gamma was not all meta. Stop attacking my play style. Or is that just you attempting to "further a case" on me because you've literally run out of other reasons why I'm scum?

Your case on Gamma was terrible. I told you it was bad before Gamma roleclaimed. It told you it was bad after he roleclaimed. Attacking that case is *not* attacking playstyle, it is attacking a bad case. So, yes, your meta case is garbage.
That you don't seem to take into account that your 'playstyle' (it's not a playstyle) led you actively wrong and then didn't correct that at all suggests that you either lack the ability to self-analyze, or don't care that what you're doing is leading you to case poorly. That's scummy, because the team that doesn't care if they case town are the scum.
Anyway, back to the checklist:
Reframing scum case as 'attack on playstyle (a NAI factor)' - Check.
Reframes end of post as assumption of end of case - Check.
A preferred method of playing the game is a play style. Quit nit picking. I can have bad games, btw. I have had games were I did great nailing scum working off of RQS, then wagon analysis, and into night analysis after a couple of days. Once I get to the late game I review my team hunts, to find which connections stayed true based off of later flips. You’re saying based off of one game were things went really sour I should rework the entire way I play? That’s a crap thing to say. If I accused you of a bad play style you wouldn’t immediately start changing how you play to appease others! Why did you expect me to do that?
I didn't assume the case was over. I was voicing my fusteration because I view you case on me to be easily disproven if you were willing to
not view things in a b/w perspective.
How do I explain this? I’m actually very against bussing as scum, and would have never done it. I believe that mafia is a team game, and that bussing a buddy is playing like a survivor. I want to work with a team to meet an end goal, and the idea of ditching people to get temporay town read doesn't seem worth it to me. In my case the benefits of bussing, never outwieght the benefits of trying to keep the team together. Like, I’m actually really wary of going in deep as scum by myself. I suck at One v one, and most likely wouldn’t be able to keep up the motivation needed to power through lylo. So I wouldn’t help town lynch scum because I recognize that means that I have to fight harder later on. If I were scum this game I would have dug my heels in somewhere else, or lurked out EoD without voting LUV. I also, for the record, don’t keep scum buddies as back pocket reads. I've kept LUV in null-scum then entire game. Keeping my scum buddy as null-scum would have pout me in a postion where I had to lynch LUV. I wouldn't have done that.
But knowing you. You'll just write this off as "Scum self metaing". I don’t care at this point though. Because I realize that if nothing I said raises any doubts in your head then there really isn’t anything I can do with you. I’ll just move on to something else. I feel like all that's gonna happen with interacting with you is me getting way madder then I should ever be at a game.
Preedit- Ugh, I don't feel like reformatting. I'll just bold response that got cuasght in the spoiler.