Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: boring


Baaa....

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: implosion

Hello.

[PenguinPower]

How is it negative? Doesn't it make you immune to nightkills?

No: Ascetic

[PenguinPower]

Ugh, RQS is a waste of time. RVS is so much better.

[PenguinPower]

Is that a joke post, or your legitimate feelings?

Oh, great. Even more questions...

[PenguinPower]

They can swim like whoa. Not liking this slot. Answer to question 4. Above.

P-edit

Don't preempt me.

[PenguinPower]

QUESTIONS FOR EVERYBODY

1) What is your preferred alignment?

2) Are you often mislynched? If so, why is that?

3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence?

4) If you were the deciding vote at lylo with the slot above you, and the slot below you, which player would you lynch and why? (Ex: 1 would be deciding between 13, and 2. 2 would be deciding between 1 and 3. 3 would decide between 2 and 4.)

5) How excited are you for this game?

Since everyone else is playing...I don't want to be left out.

1.) Town. I'm always scumread, so being scum is hard.
2.) Never been mislynched. Come close several times, but never.
3.) Undefined.
4.) Below...for username reasons and whatnot.
5.) On a scale of Little Penguin to Emperor Penguin, about a Macaroni Penguin.

[PenguinPower]

It's RVS. Sure it's kinda dumb not to make up a silly reason to vote, but I would wait a bit before condemning him to the gallows.

VOTE: Implosion
Serious vote. He doesn't talk about LUV at all but then votes him. Trying to flashwagon are we?

Um...what? Explain.

[PenguinPower]

2.) Never been mislynched. Come close several times, but never.

Seriously?

Ah...I forgot. Ok, once.

[PenguinPower]

Also, your scale is bad, and you should feel bad. Macaroni penguin is the best penguin.

The scale is purely size-related.

[PenguinPower]

LUV's vote was RVS.

Why did you say "serious vote."

[PenguinPower]

My vote on implosion is serious.

Yes, but why did you call it out as a serious vote?

[PenguinPower]

Because I wanted them to know I had a reason for voting that's actually game-based.

So, in your mind, we're still in RVS - since you had to clarify that you were serious- but a potentially random vote on LUV is scummy because a flashwagon is potentially developing?

I guess I'm not really seeing that. Also, I have no problem running LUV up to L-1.

VOTE: LUV

[PenguinPower]

How may I be of service?

Do something...

[PenguinPower]

LUV, they're trying to run you up to L-1 right now, if you could tell me which one of them is scum and which one is mislead town that'd be great.

I don't have any reads right now but I'm a little suspicious of Implosion.

Why?

[PenguinPower]

So, do you believe eagersnake?

Have no reason not to at this point. How about you?

What is your current read on him?

Null. Yours?

[PenguinPower]

Legit it was the exact thing he was mislynched for. I'm hoping he'll contribute this time, but I understand if he doesn't.

If he was mislynched for his play before, why do you think he's doing the exact same thing this time around?

[PenguinPower]

For me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.

[PenguinPower]

For me, it's not his RVS vote. It's his RQS answers.

Oh, and the continued absence thing - though that's really more of a continued non-contribution thing.

Tell me more about this, because I've ignored his RQS answers. (I've ignored basically everyone's). Why are they scummy?

My last? (maybe two games ago?) game on these boards, about a year ago, I got burned lynching down someone who was aggressively non-contributory. It felt good but they were town, which was less good. So I am a bit skeptical of running that same play back.

Spoiler: RQS Answers

Sure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.

"Sure, I'll play along" and then provides nothing. His only post of the game where he could have said anything, and it's "No; No; No comment" but I'm excited to play!

So...he knows that he's being anti-town with his play, yet he continues to do it. I'm not going to give him a pass based on his past behavior or for this crap:

It goes like this: one minute you're lynching a lurker, the next you're out a doctor.

And, it's offputting to me that GE is defending LUV as strongly as he is.

[PenguinPower]

attempting to cajole the slot into playing normally.

And how do you propose to do that?

[PenguinPower]

Lmao. Can't wait to see how this actually turns out endgame. Are you a first year psych student or something?

Oh, I also don't like how you're ignoring all the content since.

[PenguinPower]

Oh, and just to solidify the lulz in endgame because this is great 1.) is honesty (happening now) and 3.) is honesty. I've been here a little over 3 months and my play style has changed every game. That would classify as undefined.

p-edit

You're either bad town or scum.

[PenguinPower]

However, I'm enjoying the irony of PP bucking your analysis when he's going after LUV for his. Not that I'm not fond of LUV right now, either.

So. Many. Pronouns.

I don't know how to respond since it could mean to entirely different things.

[PenguinPower]

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks.

But, I'm scum reading LUV for his lack of answers to the RQS AND his lack of contribution since. So...yeah...not the same.

[PenguinPower]

I have legitimately caught scum with RQS. I've legitimately identify'd town too.

I've done both flipping a coin. Doesn't make it valid.

Yeah. You're town.

[PenguinPower]

Especially now that LUV made a big contribution post.

Um...a play by play of what's happened is hardly a contribution post.

What was your earlier question?

[PenguinPower]

Penguin - Let's make the assumption of Bad Town for the moment, if only because I don't feel like digging into this more and would like to see what he contributes based on actual gameplay.
Who does that leave as your top scum read, other than LUV? (Again, putting LUV's unhelpfulness aside. Looking Actual scummy posting in thread)

I asked before LUV made his big post, but question remains relevant enough.

I guess with the secondary follow up - Your initial case on LUV was that he was non-contributory / not helping solve, do you feel that is still the case now that he wrote a [wall of words]? (Seems like your answer is Yes but I don't want to put words in your mouth)

Original question: Gamma.

Follow up: I'd like to see LUV take a hard stance on something before I'm going to consider moving elsewhere.

[PenguinPower]

I get bad feels from him.

Spoiler:

It's RVS. Sure it's kinda dumb not to make up a silly reason to vote, but I would wait a bit before condemning him to the gallows.

VOTE: Implosion
Serious vote. He doesn't talk about LUV at all but then votes him. Trying to flashwagon are we?

I explained this earlier

LUV's vote was RVS.

Playing dumb to my questioning

Because I wanted them to know I had a reason for voting that's actually game-based.

Ah...there it is. I explained why I didn't like this previously (voting implosion for an RVS vote, but then acknowledging we were still in RVS)

LUV is town.

Great...why?

Oh just the fact LUV did this last game I played with him.

Oh, weak.

Legit it was the exact thing he was mislynched for. I'm hoping he'll contribute this time, but I understand if he doesn't.

If he was mislynched for his play before, why do you think he's doing the exact same thing this time around?

He obviously hasn't learned the lesson.

Letting him go way to easy. If I was scum!LUV, I would love Gamma. If I was scum!Gamma...buddying successful.

Also boring: are you satisfied with my explanation of the thing between me and Grendel?

Why does he care so much?

I said the bit about OMGUS because I figured someone else would accuse me of it.

Preemptively defensive.

VOTE: Zoronos
That response seems way too defensive.

Which means he's scummy based on the above.

[PenguinPower]

Only thing I really need to address is the OMGUS thing: it was a joke. And also, weren't you in Newbie 1739 too? Didn't you see Doom pull the exact same pre-defense shit?

Um...so...what you are asking me to do is take a newbie's, in their first game, meta, and apply what they did, in an entirely different setup with entirely different players, and attribute it to your comment; and, then read that comment as town? That about right?

Not happening.

p-edit

Here's a shovel. It'll be easier.

[PenguinPower]

Keep the shovel: makes it easier to tunnel.

That's actually a nice retort. Not accurate, but nice. Bravo.

[PenguinPower]

So what are you more concerned with: the contradiction or my actions?

Why can't I be concerned with all of it? Still...waiting for LUV to do...something.

[PenguinPower]

@Zoronos: I get what you're saying. I don't necessarily agree.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah implosion is town.

So:

Won't read LUV = scum > Will read LUV later = leantown > Still hasn't read/posted about, but post stuff about PP = town.

Dude...seriously.

I'm actually done with LUV for now.

VOTE: Gamma

[PenguinPower]

The fact that so many people townread me and yet he doesn't makes him Town.

Great. So, I'm town?

[PenguinPower]

Especially PP's reply to your comment is terrible. He scum reads you and is okay with you town reading him. He doesn't accuse you or buddying.

That's a misrep. I'm neither ok or not ok with him town reading me. I wanted to show the lack of logic in his comment in a smartass way.

[PenguinPower]

He nicely ignored my question.

What question?

[PenguinPower]

That? Put him as null town then. He's playing like he did in my last game with him where town swept scum, but that was my only experience with him. I normally would straight up town read him, but his play style makes me wary so I'm going to keep him in my null bucket until I can suss him out better.

[PenguinPower]

Yay. I've never been a D1 mislynch.

[PenguinPower]

Consider my vote on PP for now I'm uneasy for some reason but that's where I feel like voting.

Then why don't you?

[PenguinPower]

Assuming MariaR's vote from 354 is counted without the tags, Penguin is at L-1 right now.

It doesn't. No vote tag or bolding. Read the rules.

[PenguinPower]

That was fun.

p-edit

@shadow: You did fake vote though. Why?
@eager: Just think of me as innocent and don't do that again.

[PenguinPower]

Hey, Grendel. What do you think about the occurrences that have happened in your absence?

[PenguinPower]

Cool. We should probably go ahead an string me up so you can start doing something useful.

[PenguinPower]

Btw...not liking Slandaar right now. Hate. Absolutely hate. Prodging.

[PenguinPower]

I don't think he ever sounded comfortable lynching you, Penguin.

Yeah. Probably because I'm town.

[PenguinPower]

I can't I.D. third scum for my scum team and want to hear some interactions people may have caught between people.

Dude...you're making two levels of pre-associative flips? Wow...this is going to be lulzworthy at the end.

I thought I was bad town?

You sound like you trust my opinion.

Well, I had put you as regular/almost insightful town until the above.

[PenguinPower]

Seriously. LUV and Slandaar have done f all this game. Can we get some pressure or replace on them?

[PenguinPower]

PP seems like scum. His push against you has been very bad looking.

What push?

[PenguinPower]

Also, you said I was town before. I'm hurt.

[PenguinPower]

His methodology is bad. Worse now that I know he's trying to form the entire scum team D1. If you're going to lynch me for that, let's quick lynch it and get it over with.

p-edit

Hi LUV.

[PenguinPower]

I had already been townleaning Implosion. Not the same case with you.

This is lulz. Further define your implosion read.

[PenguinPower]

you've seemed to be trying to remain in popular opinion.

Wait...wut? When have I been in popular opinion...at all?

[PenguinPower]

Um...yeah? So what?

You realize my initial posts were a joke...hence the roll eyes and tongue out emojis? Are you that dense?

p-edit

So that's a reason to no longer scum read...why did he move to town read?

pp-edit

[PenguinPower]

So that's a reason to no longer scum read...why did he move to town read?

Reasons stated in thread, though not as strong thanks to boring's point.

You only scum read him because he refused to read LUV's wall. Right? That's pretty weak. Then town read him for not town reading you.

Attributing that factor to me (when called on it) you town read me - if only to solidify your stance on implosion - but now, it's conveniently sarcasm. I think I'm going to keep track of how many times you use sarcasm/sarcastic in this game and post it in the endgame. That should be fun.

You're at 2 so far. It's still early.

[PenguinPower]

Thx

[PenguinPower]

I've been trying to hunt for the whole team all at once so I can avoid tunnels.

Who do you think could be scum with Gamma?

Yeah...that's bad.

Right now, it's Gamma. He's further ingratiated the scum ranks in my mind. I don't like LUV's silence...but we also have another slot that has done F all that I would like to hear from. Not going to try and find all scum D1.

p-edit

Agreed. Who?

[PenguinPower]

Boring's post seem neutral upon retrospect. Opinions?

Which post? References are useful.

[PenguinPower]

Dammit. I meant to say posts.

What? Overall? Nah, more townish than null.

[PenguinPower]

Actually, she doesn't really seem to be trying to lead, so she's solid town.

Are you being sarcastic?
p-edit

Damn..serious post.

Disagree trying to find all scum is a viable tactic. Not trying to say LUV and Gamma are both scum...just that one of them is. I have no placement for the sub...they just subbed in. I care more about trying to find town for POE then scum.

There...done...glass of wine time.

[PenguinPower]

Ah jesus. I'm scummier than the prodger, Please just lynch me now and get this over with.

[PenguinPower]

You're an idiot.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry...that was mean. Or non-idiot scum.

[PenguinPower]

Wait wtf I forgot I changed my mind on implosion; make my read on him null-town
As for ShadowStep, I want him to not be as tunnely.

[PenguinPower]

The timing is weird to me (¿why is the absence of Slandaar provoking absolute hate at this point?) and feels more like PenguinPower is looking for something to say than like PenguinPower has a real comment on Slandaar at this point.

Um, because I noticed it then? Should I have brought up before then?

[PenguinPower]

3

[PenguinPower]

So, why are you letting LUV go without doing the same?

[PenguinPower]

And LUV seems to be doing...what?

[PenguinPower]

@ Gamma: No way. Is that #4? Or do you really believe that?

[PenguinPower]

I think that it's strange for you to be noticing it then, yes. My reaction in that position would have been to say something about players voting for me. Given the tone of your 431, I take it that you find most players voting for you likely to be Town?

First question: Why? I commented when I noticed an extremely inactive player (2), which was followed by a mod post about replacement.
Second question: That's a strange conclusion. I think there a some town on my wagon that seem to be doing worthwhile things, and if my lynch gets them moving on the right track, then...yeah. String me up.

[PenguinPower]

In this theoretical world, who are the town on your wagon?

Grendel, boring, nn30, maybe you. Of course, several have dropped off my wagon now.

[PenguinPower]

Zoronos, Slandaar, Lil Uzi Vert, Grendel, MariaR

Who do you think is suspicious and why (2 points)

Take a guess.

Why don't you tell us.

[PenguinPower]

We should definitely lynch Gamma. Not me.

[PenguinPower]

We should definitely lynch Gamma. Not me.

I'm having a hard time understanding why people hopped off this wagon.

Because it's sub-optimal to lynch town.

[PenguinPower]

Well, that was a lot to catch up on after 8 hours of sleep.

VOTE: eagerSnake

This needs rope.

[PenguinPower]

Ok.

[PenguinPower]

Snake parks his vote on PP for the entire day.

He had his vote on me for less than 1 minute.

[PenguinPower]

That post was all sorts of bad.

[PenguinPower]

He's saying the fact eager was on the PP wagon and shadow didn't jump off with the way shadow is acting towards eager is fishy as fuck

yw

How could he have jumped off when Eager was on my wagon for less than 1 minutes? Seriously...please explain that to me.

[PenguinPower]

Nothing new has happened and sudde ly GE realised he should look back and reconsider which is BS. LUV jumped on my wagon so he jumped on it too to protect his buddy Eager for one more day.
Tomorrow they'll argue he is also town after my flip.

This happened:

Yet she somehow has you as top townread for being "aggressive town persona. A hint of grandiosity.", something shes supposedly "never seen before in scum". Sounds like a fake read

Why does it sound like a fake read to you?

[PenguinPower]

Not you.

[PenguinPower]

if he flips scum, it's an excuse to push on anyone who defended him or didn't vote for him.

You sound worried. It would be a good thing if he flips scum.

[PenguinPower]

You were on Eager

You're really good at calling out the obivous.

[PenguinPower]

Is eager lynched yet?

[PenguinPower]

Why wouldn't scum do it if they got called out? We're in a closed setup, so no one can really determine the balance of having two of the same roles except through speculation. Seems like a valid thing to do when CC'd, and particularly better than saying "him/her or me" if the lynched party flips as the claimed role.

p-edit

Patience. Damn.

[PenguinPower]

So, other than Eager, who do you feel is scum? Still Gamma, or has that read changed?

Depends on eager's flip. But, no, Gamma hasn't done anything to change my mind right now.

[PenguinPower]

Depends on eager's flip. But, no, Gamma hasn't done anything to change my mind right now.

So in your mind this is obvscum Eager?
Definitely no chance of two town ascetic?

I'm confident enough to lynch Eager, but I can't say "no chance."

[PenguinPower]

Are you confident enough to Lynch s_s after I flip town?

Dunno...we'll see what happens after the flip.

[PenguinPower]

Great...hypothetically, what happens after?

[PenguinPower]

Yeah, but how does everyone else hypothetically react?

[PenguinPower]

I'd probably vote Shadow.

[PenguinPower]

What makes you confident of that?

Because I don't see how an combination of roles including two of those modifiers would be approved for normalcy and balance. I can't be 100% confident, but I'm confident enough at this moment.

[PenguinPower]

What makes you confident of that?

Because I don't see how an combination of roles including two of those modifiers would be approved for normalcy and balance. I can't be 100% confident, but I'm confident enough at this moment.

Like I've said many times already. As someone who has been on this site ~6 years and who has seen tons of normal setups (and is very familiar with what normalcy means on this site, and who has read a number of normal game normalcy/balance review threads): it's perfectly possible to create a setup with two town ascetics that both counts as normal and would be approved for balance. Yes, it will probably take some finagling (either we have a lot of power or a lot of our PRs are passive, most likely, or the mafia also have roles that the ascetics screw with) but it is by no means out of the question or, imo, even that strange. Uncommon, sure.

Ok...so it's possible, but uncommon, and would take "finagling" to get it approved for balance. It's also something that hasn't been seen before in a mini-normal game. I'm going to stick with the simplest theory and keep my vote on eager. Greatest chance of flipping scum right now.

[PenguinPower]

Holy Penguins! Snake flailing.

[PenguinPower]

Snake also pointed out that he parked his vote on Boring the entire day - and nobody nibbled - meaning 0 scum tried to hop onto the wagon and test the waters(implying that Boring herself is scum, causing the lack of interest in her wagon). I like this logic a lot.

Bold is mine. Since we're all fans of the complicated and intricate in this game, why could scum not orchestrate that in their day chat?

[PenguinPower]

Don't care about you right now.

[PenguinPower]

Scum would have an easier time just coasting day 1 and adding fire to any incorrect wagons.

Fallacy in my (short) experience.

[PenguinPower]

Are you implying that scum are trying to set up a boring lynch later?

I mean, why would scum consciously say, "lets not vote boring fam", if she were town. It seems like a pretty unlikely thing for town to pick up on normally. Therefore not something that scum would preemptively set up.

Do you think boring is town then?

I'm not implying anything. I simply stating that nn30's case would be good logic without day chat. Not necessarily so with. I also haven't hidden my town read on boring, and have never stated anything otherwise.

[PenguinPower]

Scum would have an easier time just coasting day 1 and adding fire to any incorrect wagons.

Fallacy in my (short) experience.

Explain.

Um...anyone gets called out and scum read when they're coasting. Always. Except Dierfire it seems.

[PenguinPower]

If I didn't think you were scum...yeah. Still want eager to flip.

[PenguinPower]

Flip eager.

[PenguinPower]

Oooh...that's an interesting variation on current events. Unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.

p-edit

Even more interesting. Thanks, LUV.

[PenguinPower]

To me it still reads like Shadow made look premeditated. The timing is too convenient for me.

Just going to quote this for posterity.

Still reads like premeditated.

Still reads.

Still.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry...Dier is talking a lot about my wagon in relation to the claim. Could you clarify as to where my wagon was at when the claim came?

[PenguinPower]

But what if he tried to frame us?

Ew...that's icky.

[PenguinPower]

No. I knew where it was. There was no strong wagon, and no reason for scum to counter claim to try and make a save at that point. That's why I think it was legit, and I don't see how anyone can accurately read anything into it.

[PenguinPower]

You're still scum snake.

[PenguinPower]

What about nolynch?

Can we please lynch this?

[PenguinPower]

Looking at the lynch yesterday, he provided no arguments for why Eager specifically was scum in the pair, didn't make any strong efforts to decide between the two competing claims, and didn't seem to examine the alternative trains. He just parked and went effectively afk other than an occasional 'this needs rope' style comment.

That to me suggests scum happy to take an easy lynch. He doesn't make an effort to sort out the alignments of all three players being discussed (boring, Eager, SS) because he doesn't care.

No, I cared. I just legit thought that Eager was scum. You should probably put your vote back on me with how strongly you think I'm scum.

VOTE: Gamma

Unlike you, this vote is because I think he's scum.

[PenguinPower]

Then vote me.

[PenguinPower]

I don't understand why you wouldn't put your vote on your strongest read. You seem to be actively refraining from casting votes until a solid wagon forms. Why is that?

[PenguinPower]

Never said you were my strongest scum read and I'm not refraining from anything. I'm taking my time and reevualting.

I was one of two of your scumreads in 522 which haven't changed, and I've only grown since then. According to you.

You seem to like to stay in an unvote state...it's kind of nice not to take a stance on anything, right? Gotta keep those options open until you can hammer town.

Actually, while looking back at vote counts at yours, Zoronos was in an unvote state in every. single. one. He has lots to say, but not much to do.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zoronos

[PenguinPower]

He gave no explanation for voting you, and then abandoned you to vote for Zoronos for something that's been available for scrutiny for quite some time. It's arbitrary.

My reasons for Gamma were expressed in D1. I hadn't taken a look at Vote Counts until responding to LUV.

Next.

[PenguinPower]

I disagree.

[PenguinPower]

Moved on from that for now.

[PenguinPower]

He gave no explanation for voting you, and then abandoned you to vote for Zoronos for something that's been available for scrutiny for quite some time. It's arbitrary.

My reasons for Gamma were expressed in D1. I hadn't taken a look at Vote Counts until responding to LUV.

Next.

This is actually what I was going to say. However the swift unvote is kinda stupid. I had a wagon on me, if you thought I was scum you should have stayed on my wagon.

I'm going to vote my strongest scumread, and Zoronos' lack of voting at all rubs me the wrong way...way wrong.

Don't worry though...I have no problem hammering you should we reach that point, but I think we're a ways off.

[PenguinPower]

Wait, Zornos never even revoted Penguin...

This is kinda what I'm talking about. Lots of words. No votes.

[PenguinPower]

Oh, should I put together a readlist and be all like:

Town:
Leantown:
Null:
Leanscum: Gamma
Scum: Zoronos

Would that make it more appealing? Lists are pretty.

[PenguinPower]

Oh, I see I was beaten. So now he's a leanscum read. Justify your lean scum read. "Moved on from that" isn't an answer to 'Why is he scum'. Perhaps an answer to 'is he your top scum' but that wasn't the question asked.

You're right, but I can't edit posts. Should have said "Moved on to something else for now."

Again, my scum read on him was discussed D1, and considering your top of my charts right now...don't feel the need to address your questions at this point.

How about this...why don't you comment on your lack of taking a hard stance on..........anything.

p-edit

So you've been rethinking this entire game?

[PenguinPower]

I changed my mind on PP:
1) The "Shadow intended to frame me and PP" idea is pretty illogical
2) This dude just said he's on my wagon pretty much but he'll be pushing someone else. Sounds scum motivated to me.

Haha...

1.) I already called that out as icky.
2.) Would you not join a wagon at end of day if you felt the slot was scummy and your top scum read's wagon didn't materialize? That sounds pretty normal to me...

[PenguinPower]

Ah, ok. That's how you took it. I should have been more specific.

[PenguinPower]

Ah, ok. That's how you took it. I should have been more specific.

Can you please restate it?

2.) Would you not join a wagon at end of day if you felt the slot was scummy and your top scum read's wagon didn't materialize? That sounds pretty normal to me...

[PenguinPower]

Good for you. Care to answer my question and answer why it took you this long to take a hard stance on anything?

[PenguinPower]

Good for you. Care to answer my question and answer why it took you this long to take a hard stance on anything?

Stances and votes are not the same thing; if you are curious as to any of the various stances I took, check all the various scum reads I've posted throughout the game along with the reasoning for them.
Your statement's premise is false, so the question is irrelevant. Unless you mean "Why do you vote seldom but post a lot" then answer is playstyle.

You're right...stances and votes are not the same thing. Stances and expressed reads mean nothing. They can be easily manipulated to "mean" whatever you need them to mean at the time. So, to clarify...by "hard stance" I mean something that actually has meaning behind it.

Votes are something real. Sure, scum bus. Town mislynches. But the end result is real.

Your "playstyle" is safe and manipulative to your needs.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry you dislike my playstyle, but it's not lazy. Zoronos may have voted me, but he has yet to do anything real.

[PenguinPower]

Long hours where you come from.

[PenguinPower]

Woah, forgot about this game. I read up and this what I have so far.

I'm a little disturbed by Penguin's push on Zoro. It reads as if he's not been reading what Zoro been asking and thinking. Just skimming. Zoro has been sorting like a mad man and his conclusions and observations have been worth the read so far.

I also don't forget how you can forget a read on someone. This is the only thing that has pinged me about Gamma really. I find it hard to believe and the only explanation that seems to make sense is that he's faking his reads. The question then becomes, is this some sort of next level strategy to catch scum or is he scum feeling pressured to put up content?

So which one are you going to vote?

[PenguinPower]

Yeah sure make that comment it's not like you're close to getting lynched

Then don't be scum?

I'd like for Uzi to do something. Him and Zoronos are triggering me. At least Zoronos has a vote down now.

[PenguinPower]

EBWOP: Then don't be scummy?

[PenguinPower]

PP has done *nothing* today.

Found scum. Might be unpopular, but found it. End game should be fun to see. Do I really need to write out lots of words, theories, and arguments? Those really tend to end up wrong and meaning nothing.

I'll hammer Gamma if that's the consensus towards end of day. Still 8 left.

[PenguinPower]

The trouble with your D1 Gamma case is that Gamma always plays in that manner. You're town reading him for reasons I find non-AI as far as Gamma goes.

I do, begrudgingly, have to support this. He was almost mislynched in a newbie game I was obvscum in because he just wears it on his sleeve.

[PenguinPower]

If, for some small reason, you end up town...I hope you're smarter than the post above.

p-edit1

Haven't seen your scum game

p-edit2

I still think he's scum. Just had to agree with the statement because it's true as far as the "non-AI" that I quoted. Wow. Really?

p-edit3

Slow the "f" down guys. Damn. Read above in p-edit2.

[PenguinPower]

Why do you think that is helpful to you?

[PenguinPower]

You wanted me to see your violation of board rules? Sorry, can you be a bit more specific as to what you want me to see?

[PenguinPower]

My WHAT? I want you to see my way I play as scum and check if it's the play I'm doing here.

Post 55 in the Scum PT that you linked.

I'm not seeing a discernible difference if that's what you're going for. I'll re-read when I'm not three scotches in...don't see much changing though.

[PenguinPower]

So you still don't understand what that rule means. Great. Not talking about that anymore with you.

p-edit

@gamma

[PenguinPower]

Only 3-4 within the past day.

[PenguinPower]

With PenguinPower technically having already claimed intent

So, me saying that I would hammer if you were the consensus at the end of the day is claiming intent? Especially when I said we have 8 days left...

That was poor thinking and a bad move. I fully believe your claim though, so I wouldn't do that anymore.

[PenguinPower]

Where did you get he was a 1-Shot Cop?

[PenguinPower]

So why wasn't your vote on your primary scum read at the time?

[PenguinPower]

Seriously. You waited 1,612 posts before voting on any of your scum reads. Why?

[PenguinPower]

I mean, that doesn't seem off-putting to anyone?

[PenguinPower]

That's great. Why hasn't he touched your votes?

[PenguinPower]

Ok. So, you're going to skip over my one-line question.

[PenguinPower]

@Grendel: Answers D2. Not D1.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin - I don't have any specific thoughts other than that a meta-diving him on his scum games reveals similar play style to this version of Pengin.

This is funny. Sorry, just want to call this one out for endgame (and as a blatant lie). None of my scum games have been anywhere close to this one. Feel free to meta me, anyone.

[PenguinPower]

Point out where I get aggressive in my scum games where I'm not a replacement. That's unfamiliar to me.

[PenguinPower]

Because you can't. K. Thx. Moving on.

[PenguinPower]

Um...wow. Weak. My scum game has typically been the opposite of what I'm doing now, hence my statement. I'm moving on, because you aren't even trying to defend your (false) statement.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin, why are you using meta to justify how you're playing this game? If this isn't your scum game, what does this say about your town game?

I didn't bring up the meta. I'm responding to it. You're asking the wrong person.

[PenguinPower]

Oh and by the way, I'll be playing from here on forward. Don't think I'll have enough time to do an entire reread of Day 1.

Seems lazy.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin, why are you using meta to justify how you're playing this game? If this isn't your scum game, what does this say about your town game?

I didn't bring up the meta. I'm responding to it. You're asking the wrong person.

You can still answer the second question. I'll even reword it.

If this isn't your scum game, what does how you're playing now say about your town game?

That this is similar to my town game? What do you want me to say? Not sure how that's beneficial.

[PenguinPower]

Um...wow. Weak. My scum game has typically been the opposite of what I'm doing now, hence my statement. I'm moving on, because you aren't even trying to defend your (false) statement.

You're doing exactly 0 to prove me wrong.

And you're doing 0 to prove your case.

[PenguinPower]

Lulz. Ok, LUV. You caught me on semantics.

p-edit

Aw, F'no. Don't you f-ing compare me to f'ing donald f'ing Trump. Do something the f'else. But don't you bring that shit in here.

[PenguinPower]

@nn: That's your opinion. You could prove that you weren't a liar, but you don't.

[PenguinPower]

Glad I could give you two. Thinking you owe me something in Endgame.

[PenguinPower]

Actually, I'll play ball for a second.

Penguin, please explain why I, as a townie, would lie about my meta read on you?

Absolutely not. You aren't playing ball, so why should I? Prove your scum read - beyond just stating - then I will defend myself.

[PenguinPower]

How is this, as scum, similar to my scum game?

[PenguinPower]

^
This is me, also, trying again.

[PenguinPower]

Can I respond to that? Because it's pretty obvious.

[PenguinPower]

K...I'm going to go ahead and do it without permission. Don't care.

Point out where I get aggressive in my scum games where I'm not a replacement. That's unfamiliar to me.

Not happening.

Um...wow. Weak. My scum game has typically been the opposite of what I'm doing now, hence my statement. I'm moving on, because you aren't even trying to defend your (false) statement.

And this is me attacking his (overall) credibility? I just wanted a response to his statement (which he refused, and which was the only thing I referred to as false).

[PenguinPower]

So, your read is false...that makes it a lie, qualifiers aside. Sorry if that triggers you. Defend it then.

Also, it doesn't mean that I scum read you. If I did, I would vote you. Though your reaction to that belief is interesting.

[PenguinPower]

Even an honest lie is a lie. Back up your statement or recant.

[PenguinPower]

Jesus H. Christ, you're tunneling on that way too hard. If we want to get definitions correct, change it from "lie" to "confabulation."

[PenguinPower]

I guess the pertinent question - Penguin, do you think NN was attempting to *actively and malicious* distort your record, or that he a 'wrong but without malice' view of your record / meta?

I think that he misconstrued - though I'm not sure how since he never provided an example - my meta (hence honest lie), and that he legit feels he found a scum slip. I also think that he's wrong on all accounts, and his relentless tunneling based on my initial callout is bad for town.

[PenguinPower]

No.

[PenguinPower]

Cop, Jailer, Doc, Two Town Ascetics. Why is it bullshit?

[PenguinPower]

He saying unless we're in a multiball setup since he jailed me, and there was only one NK, I would be a SK.

[PenguinPower]

What other role would be a secondary kill in multi ball?

[PenguinPower]

Um, a secondary scum faction?

Unlikely given the size of the game and the PRs at this point. If we're in a multi ball - which I don't think we are - it's a lone party.

[PenguinPower]

I'm thinking this mini is going to be an interesting amalgamation of roles.

[PenguinPower]

Haha. Lame. I've now scum slipped and SK slipped. I'm the worst player ever.

[PenguinPower]

I'm definitely considering LUV as scummier than Zoronos out of this interaction. I'm especially hesitant about voting for any PR claims at this point, so I'm willing to look off the wagon. I possibly would vote Boring and nn30 based on the VCA, D1, and recent interactions. I'm unwilling to vote Gamma, Implosion, or Shadow considering I believe Gamma's and Shadow's claims. So, that leaves Dierfire and Prism...haven't really looked into them so I'd have to re-read. So, yep, I'm going to go ahead and

UNVOTE:

While I re-read Dierfire and Prism.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

He's flailing.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: nn30

[PenguinPower]

@penguin - please provide a case against me.

Ok. This is going to be a long one so:

Spoiler: The Case

You're scum.

[PenguinPower]

I never said anything about kill selection. Why do you bring it up here?

The kill also suggests that Boring is town.

[PenguinPower]

Should I tunnel you for the rest of the day given your incorrect use of a word?

[PenguinPower]

Nah, I'm not the vengeful type. I'm also not trying to create a distraction to disrupt my scumbuddy's wagon.

p-edit

Because I think you're scum.

[PenguinPower]

Did you jail him solely because of his position on the LUV wagon?

[PenguinPower]

I mean, you could consider reading the rest of the sentence.

Lulz. I like you.

Rephrase: So, your jailing of Grendel was entirely in response to his take on LUV?

[PenguinPower]

Stop doing this.

Um.....no.

Flesh out your case, because nn30 isn't scummy to me.

I kinda did. I mean it's not like my posts are long, WoT-style like yours, so you should have picked up on it.

His entire end of day tunnel on me for using the word "lie" seemed like an attempt to distract and divert the LUV wagon which became scummy upon LUV's flip.

[PenguinPower]

Honestly, Penguin, your push on nn30 is part of what's making me drag my feet on him. Sure, you hammered LUV, but that was after the gambit, when it was clear he was getting lynched anyway. In fact, I'm more than a little surprised that Zoronos wasn't more suspicious of you, based on the votes, than Grendel.

First, you went after Gamma. Then, when he was revealed as cop, you went after Zoronos. LUV continued to get pressure, but you didn't vote him. I think it's very conceivable that the scum team told him to gambit to flush out any protectors. Then, when he got to L-1 again, and the gambit got its results, you hammered with little warning, to cut off further discussion.

VOTE: Penguin

Conceivable. But, your statement is incorrect and a misrep. I was off Gamma and on Zoronos before the Gamma reveal, and hopped of to unvote status after the Zoronos reveal. I voted LUV once I felt more certain he was scum than town PR.

[PenguinPower]

Well a role blocker doesn’t make sense with a Jail keeper because of the impending priority clashes. Games with both a jail keeper and a role blocker are very rare here.

Yeah. So, super rare, that they are standard in the newbie Matrix6 setup. Can I overemphasize this...

Nope. I can't.

[PenguinPower]

I can even pull up the stats if you want them!

I would. This is my first normal.

[PenguinPower]

I'll be waiting with bated breath.

[PenguinPower]

Hmm...

UNVOTE: nn30

[PenguinPower]

Because I agree with 2334 and Snake.

[PenguinPower]

Snake hasn't said anything in ages. Whaddya mean by that?

Read his ISO and look at it with knowledge gained from the NKs and Lynches, compare to what implosion said. I actually would put forth some effort to explain more in depth on this, but Charter is down in my area with no ETA for resolution so I'm phone posting. It'll be tomorrow morning before I can (Yay work!).

[PenguinPower]

I don't vote via phone. Had a derphammer in a newbie recently, so I've self-banned votes via phone.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: boring

L-1

[PenguinPower]

Then leave her there until you're ready.

[PenguinPower]

Open to say, my first game with Snake I was an Innocent Child and sheeped him to a perfect town win. I trust his read when I think he is town.

Spoiler: Things Snake Said That Make Me Vote Boring

Mainly wanted to see if anyone would react to my obviously parked vote or not
.. no one really did

Really? Ugh you're frustrating.

Okay, so, who do you think is scum and why? I'd appreciate some non-flippant thoughts.

Boring seems happy with this conflict

If we don't overcome this, we will almost certainly lose.

If you actually believe this, you should work to convince the undecided voters of the thread that it's true and you're town.
I am willing to entertain the position, but you have to work with me to do that. That means playing along with my question, even if you think it's stupid.
So how about it?

It's 3:30am and I haven't even begun to make any cases this game so I have literally nothing prepared at this time, unfortunately. Wish I could give you more than the fact I've been parked on boring all game and scum haven't even taken a nibble at it, so that also makes it more likely boring is scum

1-2 Scum on me is in [boring, PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald] All 3 of these nearly equally likely.
0-1 Scum on s_s is in [nn30, LUV] More likely LUV than nn30 IMO, but I could be wrong here, or they both could be town.
0-2 Scum off wagons is in [MariaR, implosion, Dierfire, Grendel, Prism, Zoronos] These I'm at a loss for.

What do you want from me?

I had my vote on boring all day and nobody even nibbled at it, usually I would think scum would at least take a nibble at it. This makes it more likely boring is scum. Also boring seems happy with this conflict and jumped on me without any question, also used the gambler's fallacy to her own defense.

Boring has nothing to say because they said it all in their day chat

You know it! Now stick to the plan, and we'll win this game like it ain't no thang.

I expect more from the ultimate scum lord!

Give eagerSnake a break, he's doing his best.

I usually try to form a good town-block and then consider the best scum-hunter of the block as the wise elder

I applaud the sentiment if it's genuine, but how do you intend to build a townblock in one day? You're either going to be NK'd for being conf. town, or you're going to survive the night, and anyone you'd want for your town block will have a healthy dose of distrust for you. I think you might have to table that plan for now.

He's an eager snake.

This seems overly aggressive.

Do you think my "over-aggressive"-ness is a sign of town, or scum? Explain your answer.

(700-750 words, APA style format)

pssh! APA format is for pussies. Make him do it in Chicago.

@Gamma, what's bold-telling? I've never seen that term, and I can't find it in the wiki.

He probably is. I'm the only person who's vocalized annoyance with the concept of a fake town block. I can do it again too. Only VI's and scum would be content with the idea of unconfirmed town being placed on a town block pedestal.

@Boring, since you are around, what is you read on Eager atm, regarding his claim and stuff?

I'm pretty sure I've addressed this at length, but I can answer again. I think he's telling the truth, and I think that unless his only role modifier is ascetic, he made a mistake announcing it so quickly. Factor in his town block nonsense, and I have him as strong town with questionable judgement.

Rainbow time!
Because I get bored going so long without a splash of color.

Shadow_step - Has an aggressive town persona. A hint of grandiosity. I haven't seen this behavior before with scum.
eagerSnake - He's got a most-likely-town claim. If he's still alive tomorrow, he'll probably be bumped way down because he's pretty useless
nn30 - Awkward, but in a townish way. Provides good observations.
Grendel - His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.
Gamma Emerald - Acting like he did in the last game, which was town.
Zoronos - Still feels off, but in consistent ways. I'm beginning to suspect part of it is personality. Doesn't seem survival-oriented.
MariaR - At least she admits that she's been coasting. No solid read yet.
DierFire - The vote-and-disappear thing, even during RVS, is pretty scummy. His one post was decent.
Lil Uzi Vert - I know people seem mostly over him now, but he's remains one of the scummier posters today. Might be personality.
Slandaar/Prism - Because prod dodging with no content. Sub-outs are more likely scum than town.
implosion - I get the impression that he's trying to blend in, and stay out of trouble. Reactive.
PenguinPower - Bad votes, reactions lack a feeling of authenticity, posts lacking substance, and dismissive in a way that I only see with scum.

Of course I am, eager. I've miraculously drawn scum for the fourth game in a row to stroke your ego, and justify the fear vote you planned since the sign-up thread.

You don't even have to scum hunt. Just park a vote, make a shitty claim, and fake a hammer for lolz (because you got fuck-all info from it).

Of course I am, eager. I've miraculously drawn scum for the fourth game in a row to stroke your ego, and justify the fear vote you planned since the sign-up thread.

You don't even have to scum hunt. Just park a vote, make a shitty claim, and fake a hammer for lolz (because you got fuck-all info from it).

Okay. This feels forced. And also out of left field.

It's not out of left field, you're just missing context. I'm irritated by his coasting, and I'm annoyed with town in general. I feel like too many people are tip-toeing, and there's no real scum hunting going on.

This game just got easy .

Kidding lol

Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

Anyone else can also answer this.

Eager is probably a goon and would be doing most of the kills and hence might have the biggest chance of getting caught so he claimed to have ascetic.

I'm town ascetic.
First thing I did after reading Eager's claim was confirm with the mod that he sent me the right role PM.

VOTE: eagerSnake good enough for me.

There you have it.

[PenguinPower, boring, Gamma] most likely theres a scum in there

And...

Spoiler: This Is Why Boring Over nn30

Official Vote Count 1.36

Lynching

FINAL

eagerSnake (7): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Prism, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert
boring (4): MariaR, implosion, nn30, eagerSnake

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Grendel

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

I'm thinking scum is in boring and Grendel. Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

[PenguinPower]

Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

Don't link me this way. Use something else, please.

Being wrong about somebody =/= I'm scum.

If you're gonna scum read me, please ISO me and cook up some theories on my motivations. Those hold weight without bs associatives.

I'm not linking you. If boring is town, I think you are scum because I agree with post 2334 (as I previously said).

[PenguinPower]

LUV was never once on the Boring wagon. This is something you can't ignore.

Not only was he not on it, with a quick glance through LUV's ISO he appears to be softly defending boring.

[PenguinPower]

Ever heard of buddying?

Yes, and it's not something I think LUV would be able to do.

[PenguinPower]

He's capable of following instructions, right? Do you think he thought up the doc gambit all by his lonesome?

In my experience with him. No, and No. He would need message-crafting level coaching to buddy someone; not just guidance to buddy.

You're starting to get a little flippant in your posting, which I appreciate - if you were town. Grendel's latest post reinforces my read on you, btw.

[PenguinPower]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.

You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.

This comment worries me. I know this is an argument being used by someone(s) to townread you. Your attempt to apply it to me feels ham-handed. It's as if you're trying to reinforce this perception of you, rather than determine my alignment.

I'm me, and you're you. I've been flippant since my first post in this thread. You haven't been, so the change is noteworthy to me.

Please elaborate.

Um...I think he's second scum and he town reads you. That furthers my read on you. How is that difficult to understand?

Straws, boring. Grab at them.

[PenguinPower]

Um...I think he's second scum and he town reads you. That furthers my read on you. How is that difficult to understand?

Nitpicking here.

Scum buddy, and scum bus.

Grendel having Boring as a town read is NAI until you figure out that 1) Grendel is actually scum and 2) how he behaves.

Um...no. I have a secondary scum read who townreads my primary scum when they are the leading wagon while throwing a vote on a random player. There's no "nitpicking" or "NAI" involved. It strengthens my primary read. Not going to make me hop on over to the secondary at this point, but it still has an effect.

[PenguinPower]

if we don't massclaim zoronos dies tonight, it seems foolish to waste a possibly more-informed use of the jailkeeper tonight, etc. Theoretic worst case scenario is scum have a blocker and block whatever other active power we have I guess? but if scum have a blocker we're going to have another significant PR and we'll want to know about that. And also most importantly we're at the point where these claims will REALLY help PoE.

2nd time you've brought this up. I get the Zoronos bit; but, in a closed setup how is this going to benefit PoE? This is my first time playing one, so if you could explain that bit more.

[PenguinPower]

Hmm...

boring
Grendel
Nn30
Prism
DF
Shadow
Implosion