Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

PenguinPower
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Post Post #2375  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:27 pm

In post 2371, nn30 wrote:Snake hasn't said anything in ages. Whaddya mean by that?


Read his ISO and look at it with knowledge gained from the NKs and Lynches, compare to what implosion said. I actually would put forth some effort to explain more in depth on this, but Charter is down in my area with no ETA for resolution so I'm phone posting. It'll be tomorrow morning before I can (Yay work!).

podoboq
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Post Post #2376  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:55 pm

Official Vote Count 3.07
LynchingWith 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

boring (3): Prism, implosion, nn30
Grendel (2): Zoronos, Dierfire
nn30 (1): Shadow_step
PenguinPower (1): boring
Shadow_step (1): Grendel

Not Voting (1): PenguinPower

V/LA: Zoronos


Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-14 13:30:00)
Last edited by podoboq on Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently looking for reviewers, a backup mod, and a flavor writer for a Magic: the Gathering flavored Large Theme. PM if interested.

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Post Post #2377  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:23 pm

@PP - if you're in agreement why aren't you voting?

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Post Post #2378  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:27 pm

The connection of the second Ascetic being a role blocker:

1) I hate to admit it, but Zoronos is right about scum being way to confidant to go after Gamma without a means to negate his power.

2) If there were two roles capable of negating night actions, the mod would have to decide which gets priority; giving the scum rb an aesthetic modifier solves this issue.

3) With Shadow being an ascetic it makes more sense for him to be a role blocker because his modifier with allow him to bypass Zoronos's blocking ablities.

4) All things considered from a set up perspective, town and mafia having one ascetic makes more sense than town getting two ascetics, while scum also gets something to counter town protectives. Unless we have another 3+ town power, (lol), then this isn't an incredibility anti-town set up.

I won’t remove a strong man from the table, but given that Shadow is arguing that instead of a role blocker is giving me bad vibes. Especially now that I have had this realization regarding Shadow.

I guess I should address the elephant in the room first. The reason why everybody has a mutual town read on Shadow: his counter claim. Heck, even I thought it was a pretty town motivated thing to do, cc another unlikely role in the only makes sense. The thing is though that I have witnessed enough games to recognizing risky D1 scum gambits. They go hard and long D1, until everybody is convinced that there is no way the slot could be scum. Then once cleared by the other players they lurk until the late game. Compare this to shadow’s activity this game. 166 posts D1. 35 posts D2. 15 posts so far today. He becomes significantly less aggressive with his pushes going into the second day, and many of his opinions are not memorable. As in looking over his iso, I’m seeing things I never really noticed before.

Some things I noticed going through his isolated posts:
Spoiler:
In post 9, Shadow_step wrote:VOTE: LUV

This is a scum PR we need to get riD of ASAP.

In post 166, Shadow_step wrote:Looks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

-Shadow had started out D1 with a vote on LUV, and then proceeds to distance him until he comes to the conclusion that LUV null. Looks like scum pretending to sort scum.
In post 400, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 398, MariaR wrote:N30 has been obv town since the start of this.

The fact gamma isn't obv town when I've obv town read him before is worrying

the LUV townreads make me laugh.

I'm gonna look more into a few players that don't need names but with the amount of people I am slowly going like "you can be town" these players are....


If penguin is scum, LUV is town.
I do agree on that town reading LUV is kinda dumb.

- Its common for scum to link their buddies to other players in mutally exclusive relationships. Though I find the order a bit weird.

-With the usage of the scum pt it is not unreasonable that Shadow could have plotted out his counter claim in advance. I believe he is of the ability to organize this as scum. Town reading him for it would be folly.
In post 753, Shadow_step wrote:I'm not lynching anyone but eager today.
If there are two ascetics. This game is bastard.

So I'd rather believe eager is scum than this game is bastard.

- Shadow step calling the game bastard seems like a redirect to get town to blame to mod’s set up choices instead of Shadow once Eager flips scum. It also gives him an excuse to spend the whole day tunneling Eager, and be justified by the outcome regardless what Eager flips. He do say this as town, but it'd be an awfully convenit stance to take as scum sense he can look like aggressive town while not actually being aggressive towards other players. So he gets no back lash for statements like this.

In post 1344, Shadow_step wrote:Hmm I got my facts wrong. Eggman and eager were both useless I thought eager got lynched for the cult win.


- Scum slip. A low expections of Eager. As scum Shadow would view him as an easy mislynch. Suggests that Shadow would have been more confidence pushing a cc on Eager then somebody else.
In post 1579, Shadow_step wrote:
If he thinks I'm scum, I would obviously not consider Eager to be town. Why the hell would I? He then says that Eager could be lying town. Implying he knows eager I town. Lying as town is very risky. Not just in that game. But you can get blacklisted.
LUV treats me as if I am town here.

To be noted


- Shadeow’s read of LUV bounces throughout D1, but ultimately it appears that LUV is a null read for him given how Shadow keeps a suspicion on him without acting on it. It isn’t until this point that he seems legitimately interested in lynching LUV… until he moves over to Gamma.
In post 2092, Shadow_step wrote:Brilliant, all the lynch baits got all the good PRs :/

VOTE: Nn

- 2092 Immediately buys that LUV is doctor. I think this could be a last second reprieve to see if LUV can live another day or two.
In post 2099, Shadow_step wrote:Someone needs to unvote before luv self hammers.

In post 2102, Shadow_step wrote:He will hammer cause he is scum.
Probably going bonkers in his at.

- 2099 & 2102 This reads like damage control. Trying to back away from LUV as fast as he can.

- Shadow spends a lot of time on set up speculation D2…
In post 2209, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2201, podoboq wrote:
Lil Uzi Vert, Mafia Goon, was lynched Day 2.

It is now Night 2. Please PM all night actions to me by the deadline, or bold them in your associated private thread.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-29 08:44:00)


Only if bastars mod hadn't put 2 town ascetics, had this scum fuck day 1.


- Takes credit for the lynch of somebody he only kept as a scum lean and only pushed whenever Shadow thought LUV said something particularly bad. Usually something directed at Shadow too. Also Shadow is once again painting the mod as the scape goat. Maybe it's just me, but shadow has been evading the responsibility for his actions this game, starting with his fake 1-L vote on Pengiun back in Day 1.


Seeing how the most town thing I had to say about Shadow going into today was his behavior D1 tells me that he has been keeping a low profile since Eager flipped. Also nobody pointing out some of these things means that everybody has written off Shadow as town. Which imo is a big mistake that I too was a part of yesterday. The entire purpose of a powerful D1 scum gambit is to rack up enough town cred to slide into the endgame. This is exactly what Shadow is doing.

You know, I had originally thought that Shadow step was an investigative role given his jump on Gamma at the start of D2 along the lines of “Oh yeah, this is scum btw”. I thought that he was softing a guilty, the same way he did at the start of D1 where he remarked how easy the game will be after Eager’s claim. There was also how much attention Shadow gives Maria D1, and her general feelings were that Gamma wasn’t Ob!town like she was expecting him to be. More reasoning I had down in my notes is that two regular townies modified with straight aesthetics modifiers and nothing else, would be really anti town. So I thought that Shadow should be a cop or some such.

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Post Post #2379  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:29 pm

I don't vote via phone. Had a derphammer in a newbie recently, so I've self-banned votes via phone.

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Post Post #2380  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:01 pm

@Grendel - You make some interesting points about Shadow, which I'll get to in a minute.

1) What reason did you originally have for scum reading me?

2) What are your feelings on the Boring case?

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Post Post #2381  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:12 pm

Grendel's case is amusing.
I didn't push LUV after a certain amount of time because of how confident I was about eager flipping scum. The way LUV reacted to it and I've already mentioned this I believe that if he was eager's buddy he would buss the fuck out of him for towncred.
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Post Post #2382  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm

@Grendel
In post 2372, Grendel wrote:lol idk how to properly quote from a locked thread.


If you hit the "PM" button at the lower left of a post, whether or not the thread is locked, it will generate a draft with post quoted (it will be a PM draft, but you can copy/paste that into a post in the correct thread, and I usually clean up the quote tag as well so that it looks good).

---
You make some interesting points about Shadow_step that I'll consider further. What do you think of the fact that boring was having doubt about Shadow_step (), and the posts from Lil Uzi Vert that I quoted in response ()?

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Post Post #2383  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:18 pm

@Shadow_step
Are you done looking at Prism and Lil Uzi Vert? Did you look at my reasons for reading Prism as Town ()?

boring
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Post Post #2384  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:22 pm

Okay guys, I'm strapped for time again, again. I'll be brief and hopefully I can follow-up Friday and Sunday with more detail.

Implosion, as usual, you seem to be arguing semantics and personality in lieu of actual scum-hunting.

Prism, I'm going to need you to reread my post. I said your argument was crap because it's based on the assumption that I have the intelligence and subtlety of an Easter ham, which, frankly, anyone would find a bit insulting. Either way, it's time to move onto crazy tunnel #4. Maaaaybe PP?

Shadow, your batting average has been pretty sad this game. Make #1838 great again. Vote PP.

Grendel, I was trying to be helpful because you looked like you were veering yourself toward danger. Since private messages aren't an option for us, I said it in thread. You're welcome. If I was fishing for a mod kill, I would have just PM'd the mod, and rubbed my hands together muttering "gooood, gooood", wouldn't I?

Dierfire, why does basically everyone have you as null? It's mighty shady at this point in the game.

nn30, vote PP.

Zoronos, get back here so you can talk some sense into these ninnies.

PP, vote PP.

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Post Post #2385  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:22 pm

It's nice how Grendel wants to lynch me out of setup spec when he himself condemns me for it.
If I was maf RB I wouldn't kill GE I could just keep blocking him and kitll Zoro.
Killing GE gives town a confirmed town aka Implosion. Why am I making it harder for myself :roll:
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Post Post #2386  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:25 pm

In post 2383, Dierfire wrote:@Shadow_step
Are you done looking at Prism and Lil Uzi Vert? Did you look at my reasons for reading Prism as Town ()?


I will look at it when I'm on PC.
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implosion
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Post Post #2387  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:29 pm

boring wrote:Implosion, as usual, you seem to be arguing semantics and personality in lieu of actual scum-hunting.

I fail to see how literally anything that I said in 2334 has anything to do with either semantics or personality. At all. Almost all of the points there weren't even about your play. You continue the trend of responding to my points by sidestepping them, in this case just completely mischaracterizing them. Unless you're referring to me criticizing you for describing your play as hard bussing, in which case your response here:
In post 2341, boring wrote:
In post 2339, implosion wrote:Oh man, I didn't even see that boring described her own play as "hard bussing from day one." I'd love to hear a justification of how listing him as your , saying you'd be for lynching him if you couldn't lynch eager, and then amounts to "hard bussing" because I can't see anything else on d1 that you said about him.

I started suspecting him middle/end of day 1, and posted as much especially toward the end of the day. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the end of a day isn't called a different day. You may have also noticed that I was V/LA half of day 1, and a leading wagon, so there was a bit of distractiin flying around.

is yet again an utter sidestep to the point I'm making. You started suspecting him. You never pushed him on d1. You only cited him as a backup if you couldn't get your preferred lynch on eager. And yet now you're trying to call yourself obvtown because you would have had to have "hard-bussed d1" which you wouldn't do. Which is a load of bs. You didn't hard bus. You didn't even bus. You plainly distanced from him and then bussed him when he became the obvious direction to bus in on d2 after his terrible end-of-day that would leave almost anyone suspicious of him.

That's not just a semantic difference. That is you saying you did things that you just very blatantly did not do and claiming that you are town for doing those things that you did not do. That's ridiculously scummy.

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Post Post #2388  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:34 pm

In post 2378, Grendel wrote:The thing is though that I have witnessed enough games to recognizing risky D1 scum gambits.

The problem with this is that I just very simply don't think scum-shadow would think to randomly counterclaim the immediate ascetic claim, and he immediately breadcrumbed. You are right that his play is worthy of a bit more thought in light of the possibility that he's a scum ascetic but I do not think there's any chance that he's scum unless he counterclaimed because he thought it was what he'd do as a town ascetic. Which is possible. But I think the rest of his play is town-indicative still. It's worth some consideration at massclaim time.

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Post Post #2389  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:36 pm

@boring
In post 2384, boring wrote:Dierfire, why does basically everyone have you as null? It's mighty shady at this point in the game.

Ha ha, I agree; I find it a bit strange that so many players don't have a read on me. Or did you mean that you're suspicious of me because other players are reading me as Null? I'm not so skilled that I can control how other players read me.

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Post Post #2390  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:45 pm

In post 2389, Dierfire wrote:@boring
In post 2384, boring wrote:Dierfire, why does basically everyone have you as null? It's mighty shady at this point in the game.

Ha ha, I agree; I find it a bit strange that so many players don't have a read on me. Or did you mean that you're suspicious of me because other players are reading me as Null? I'm not so skilled that I can control how other players read me.

I'm like the rest, and find you null. It's unnerving.

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Post Post #2391  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:47 pm

Shadow you're sheeping my questions and I'm not a fan.

This is the third time I'm asking you to go back and answer them.

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Post Post #2392  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:50 pm

I need to quote properly for that, I'm not dodging questions. I'll do it when I'm on PC.
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Post Post #2393  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:53 pm

@boring
In post 2390, boring wrote:I'm like the rest, and find you null. It's unnerving.

How can I help? Do you have questions that I can answer that would help you read me? Do any of my thoughts require clarification?

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Post Post #2394  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:02 am

In post 2387, implosion wrote:
boring wrote:Implosion, as usual, you seem to be arguing semantics and personality in lieu of actual scum-hunting.

I fail to see how literally anything that I said in 2334 has anything to do with either semantics or personality. At all. Almost all of the points there weren't even about your play. You continue the trend of responding to my points by sidestepping them, in this case just completely mischaracterizing them. Unless you're referring to me criticizing you for describing your play as hard bussing, in which case your response here:
In post 2341, boring wrote:
In post 2339, implosion wrote:Oh man, I didn't even see that boring described her own play as "hard bussing from day one." I'd love to hear a justification of how listing him as your , saying you'd be for lynching him if you couldn't lynch eager, and then amounts to "hard bussing" because I can't see anything else on d1 that you said about him.

I started suspecting him middle/end of day 1, and posted as much especially toward the end of the day. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the end of a day isn't called a different day. You may have also noticed that I was V/LA half of day 1, and a leading wagon, so there was a bit of distractiin flying around.

is yet again an utter sidestep to the point I'm making. You started suspecting him. You never pushed him on d1. You only cited him as a backup if you couldn't get your preferred lynch on eager. And yet now you're trying to call yourself obvtown because you would have had to have "hard-bussed d1" which you wouldn't do. Which is a load of bs. You didn't hard bus. You didn't even bus. You plainly distanced from him and then bussed him when he became the obvious direction to bus in on d2 after his terrible end-of-day that would leave almost anyone suspicious of him.

That's not just a semantic difference. That is you saying you did things that you just very blatantly did not do and claiming that you are town for doing those things that you did not do. That's ridiculously scummy.

More semantics. Look, at the end of Day 1, I don't remember who asked me, but I posted (and I'm summarizing, professor) that regardless of the outcome between eager and shadow, LUV was scum. He was largely ignored at that point in the game, and it was before he out-of-the-blue hammered eager. Your premise just doesn't hold water.

Obviously, that was super scummy. (I don't get why everyone else needed so much damned convincing), and I didn't see much reason to move on from him unless there was no chance that day to lynch him (I don't see the point in ending a day on a vanity wagon, no matter how right you are, unless you're dead set against town's choice).

Now, I realize that you can argue words till we're both old and wrinkled, but I pushed LUV's wagon as hard as I've ever pushed a wagon. That's what hard means to me. I'm sorry it's not the right wording for you, but didn't I promise you more disappointing wording? I'd hate to disappoint you in every facet of our brief relationship...

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Post Post #2395  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:04 am

In post 2393, Dierfire wrote:@boring
In post 2390, boring wrote:I'm like the rest, and find you null. It's unnerving.

How can I help? Do you have questions that I can answer that would help you read me? Do any of my thoughts require clarification?

I'll get back with you on that, if I can. As far as I can tell, your posts have been perfectly neutral. Clean, is the word that comes to mind (not entirely sure why).

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Post Post #2396  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:46 am

In post 2384, boring wrote:Zoronos, get back here so you can talk some sense into these ninnies.


I caught up, and but am about to start drinking and playing board games.
This is the one week a year I get to be irresponsible!

What do you need from me?
I can maybe write good posts!

I maintain that I don't think Boring is the correct lynch. I felt she was very early in the day on D2 on LUV and stuck with that given available options (Gamma, Me).

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Post Post #2397  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:53 am

Spoiler: Why I think PP and LUV are not buddies
In post 320, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 318, Gamma Emerald wrote:So what are you more concerned with: the contradiction or my actions?


Why can't I be concerned with all of it? Still...waiting for LUV to do...something.

In post 240, PenguinPower wrote:Ok. That makes sense. Thanks.

But, I'm scum reading LUV for his lack of answers to the RQS AND his lack of contribution since. So...yeah...not the same.

In post 157, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 154, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:How may I be of service?


Do something...

In post 149, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 148, Gamma Emerald wrote:Because I wanted them to know I had a reason for voting that's actually game-based.


So, in your mind, we're still in RVS - since you had to clarify that you were serious- but a potentially random vote on LUV is scummy because a flashwagon is potentially developing?

I guess I'm not really seeing that. Also, I have no problem running LUV up to L-1.

VOTE: LUV


Esp the part where PP keeps telling him to do something, I think if he was scum he'd just tell that to him in their QT.
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Post Post #2398  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:54 am

In post 2354, nn30 wrote:2) Other than myself (since you're obviously already voting for me) who is scummiest among [Grendel, Dierfire, Zoronos]?


Grendel
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Post Post #2399  (ISO)  » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:08 am

VOTE: boring

L-1

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