Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

[Shadow_step]

Spoiler: This is the point where LUV is on 3 votes and there is a wagon developing on him

Official Vote Count 1.04

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lil Uzi Vert (3): Shadow_step, implosion, PenguinPower
Grendel (2): boring, MariaR
boring (1): eagerSnake
MariaR (1): Lil Uzi Vert
Zoronos (1): DierFire
nn30 (1): nn30
implosion (1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (3): Grendel, Zoronos, Slandaar

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

Cutting to the chase

Maria votes zoro

Spoiler:

VOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.

Boring votes Zoro immediately

Spoiler:

VOTE: Zoronos

Best vote atm I haven't liked any of his posts to put it in a simple answer.

This is a train that I can ride for a while. Have you ever worn a jacket so small that you can't button it up or move your arms properly? That's what he brings to mind.

VOTE: Zoronos

Scum like to create counterwagons when their buddy is being wagoned, we know Maria is town.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: boring

L-1

We have 11 days

[PenguinPower]

Then leave her there until you're ready.

[Shadow_step]

nn30 is today's lynch.

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 3.08

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

boring (4): Prism, implosion, nn30, PenguinPoqer
Grendel (2): Zoronos, Dierfire
nn30 (1): Shadow_step
PenguinPower (1): boring
Shadow_step (1): Grendel

Not Voting (0):

V/LA: Zoronos

Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-14 13:30:00)

[PenguinPower]

Open to say, my first game with Snake I was an Innocent Child and sheeped him to a perfect town win. I trust his read when I think he is town.

Spoiler: Things Snake Said That Make Me Vote Boring

Mainly wanted to see if anyone would react to my obviously parked vote or not
.. no one really did

Really? Ugh you're frustrating.

Okay, so, who do you think is scum and why? I'd appreciate some non-flippant thoughts.

Boring seems happy with this conflict

If we don't overcome this, we will almost certainly lose.

If you actually believe this, you should work to convince the undecided voters of the thread that it's true and you're town.
I am willing to entertain the position, but you have to work with me to do that. That means playing along with my question, even if you think it's stupid.
So how about it?

It's 3:30am and I haven't even begun to make any cases this game so I have literally nothing prepared at this time, unfortunately. Wish I could give you more than the fact I've been parked on boring all game and scum haven't even taken a nibble at it, so that also makes it more likely boring is scum

1-2 Scum on me is in [boring, PenguinPower, Gamma Emerald] All 3 of these nearly equally likely.
0-1 Scum on s_s is in [nn30, LUV] More likely LUV than nn30 IMO, but I could be wrong here, or they both could be town.
0-2 Scum off wagons is in [MariaR, implosion, Dierfire, Grendel, Prism, Zoronos] These I'm at a loss for.

What do you want from me?

I had my vote on boring all day and nobody even nibbled at it, usually I would think scum would at least take a nibble at it. This makes it more likely boring is scum. Also boring seems happy with this conflict and jumped on me without any question, also used the gambler's fallacy to her own defense.

Boring has nothing to say because they said it all in their day chat

You know it! Now stick to the plan, and we'll win this game like it ain't no thang.

I expect more from the ultimate scum lord!

Give eagerSnake a break, he's doing his best.

I usually try to form a good town-block and then consider the best scum-hunter of the block as the wise elder

I applaud the sentiment if it's genuine, but how do you intend to build a townblock in one day? You're either going to be NK'd for being conf. town, or you're going to survive the night, and anyone you'd want for your town block will have a healthy dose of distrust for you. I think you might have to table that plan for now.

He's an eager snake.

This seems overly aggressive.

Do you think my "over-aggressive"-ness is a sign of town, or scum? Explain your answer.

(700-750 words, APA style format)

pssh! APA format is for pussies. Make him do it in Chicago.

@Gamma, what's bold-telling? I've never seen that term, and I can't find it in the wiki.

He probably is. I'm the only person who's vocalized annoyance with the concept of a fake town block. I can do it again too. Only VI's and scum would be content with the idea of unconfirmed town being placed on a town block pedestal.

@Boring, since you are around, what is you read on Eager atm, regarding his claim and stuff?

I'm pretty sure I've addressed this at length, but I can answer again. I think he's telling the truth, and I think that unless his only role modifier is ascetic, he made a mistake announcing it so quickly. Factor in his town block nonsense, and I have him as strong town with questionable judgement.

Rainbow time!
Because I get bored going so long without a splash of color.

Shadow_step - Has an aggressive town persona. A hint of grandiosity. I haven't seen this behavior before with scum.
eagerSnake - He's got a most-likely-town claim. If he's still alive tomorrow, he'll probably be bumped way down because he's pretty useless
nn30 - Awkward, but in a townish way. Provides good observations.
Grendel - His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.
Gamma Emerald - Acting like he did in the last game, which was town.
Zoronos - Still feels off, but in consistent ways. I'm beginning to suspect part of it is personality. Doesn't seem survival-oriented.
MariaR - At least she admits that she's been coasting. No solid read yet.
DierFire - The vote-and-disappear thing, even during RVS, is pretty scummy. His one post was decent.
Lil Uzi Vert - I know people seem mostly over him now, but he's remains one of the scummier posters today. Might be personality.
Slandaar/Prism - Because prod dodging with no content. Sub-outs are more likely scum than town.
implosion - I get the impression that he's trying to blend in, and stay out of trouble. Reactive.
PenguinPower - Bad votes, reactions lack a feeling of authenticity, posts lacking substance, and dismissive in a way that I only see with scum.

Of course I am, eager. I've miraculously drawn scum for the fourth game in a row to stroke your ego, and justify the fear vote you planned since the sign-up thread.

You don't even have to scum hunt. Just park a vote, make a shitty claim, and fake a hammer for lolz (because you got fuck-all info from it).

Of course I am, eager. I've miraculously drawn scum for the fourth game in a row to stroke your ego, and justify the fear vote you planned since the sign-up thread.

You don't even have to scum hunt. Just park a vote, make a shitty claim, and fake a hammer for lolz (because you got fuck-all info from it).

Okay. This feels forced. And also out of left field.

It's not out of left field, you're just missing context. I'm irritated by his coasting, and I'm annoyed with town in general. I feel like too many people are tip-toeing, and there's no real scum hunting going on.

This game just got easy .

Kidding lol

Hello eager, do you have any early reads?

Anyone else can also answer this.

Eager is probably a goon and would be doing most of the kills and hence might have the biggest chance of getting caught so he claimed to have ascetic.

I'm town ascetic.
First thing I did after reading Eager's claim was confirm with the mod that he sent me the right role PM.

VOTE: eagerSnake good enough for me.

There you have it.

[PenguinPower, boring, Gamma] most likely theres a scum in there

And...

Spoiler: This Is Why Boring Over nn30

Official Vote Count 1.36

Lynching

FINAL

eagerSnake (7): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Prism, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert
boring (4): MariaR, implosion, nn30, eagerSnake

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Grendel

V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)

I'm thinking scum is in boring and Grendel. Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

[Shadow_step]

The fact that nn30 was off the Eager wagon is more damning. Scum knew he was town and didn't want to be on his wagon. They wanted town to destroy themselves, look at LUV's wagon position. He was so reluctant to join the Eager wagon.

[nn30]

nn30 is today's lynch.

I'm gonna need you to state your case on this.

Well reasoned, cited, etc.

I've already asked for this once also.

[nn30]

Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

Don't link me this way. Use something else, please.

Being wrong about somebody =/= I'm scum.

If you're gonna scum read me, please ISO me and cook up some theories on my motivations. Those hold weight without bs associatives.

[nn30]

The fact that nn30 was off the Eager wagon is more damning. Scum knew he was town and didn't want to be on his wagon. They wanted town to destroy themselves, look at LUV's wagon position. He was so reluctant to join the Eager wagon.

Is it really that damning? I didn't think he was a good lynch. My vote reflects that. Turns out - I was right. Huh.

LUV joining the wagon late says nothing about my supposed scum!Nn30 playstyle. You're grasping at straws.

ISO Podoboq and look at vote counts - LUV was never once on the Boring wagon. This is something you can't ignore.

[PenguinPower]

Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

Don't link me this way. Use something else, please.

Being wrong about somebody =/= I'm scum.

If you're gonna scum read me, please ISO me and cook up some theories on my motivations. Those hold weight without bs associatives.

I'm not linking you. If boring is town, I think you are scum because I agree with post 2334 (as I previously said).

[PenguinPower]

LUV was never once on the Boring wagon. This is something you can't ignore.

Not only was he not on it, with a quick glance through LUV's ISO he appears to be softly defending boring.

[nn30]

Boring flips town, nn30 is scum.

Don't link me this way. Use something else, please.

Being wrong about somebody =/= I'm scum.

If you're gonna scum read me, please ISO me and cook up some theories on my motivations. Those hold weight without bs associatives.

I'm not linking you. If boring is town, I think you are scum because I agree with post 2334 (as I previously said).

I see the logic. I'm still wary, but I can respect it.

[nn30]

@Boring - you're only poking at one aspect of his case against you (you saying you hard bussed LUV) but ignoring the rest of the case.

Please respond to the rest of the case (your interactions with and LUV's actions towards you).

[Zoronos]

What is the rest of the case, beyond 'a bunch of town voted for her D1'?
Yeah, she had me super suspicious D2 (behind Penguin) to the point that I refused to join her train until I counterclaimed LUV, but I think I was wrong to do that.

I guess I'm missing the thrust of the case kinda other than the bussing part but maybe I'm the dumb.

[nn30]

What is the rest of the case, beyond 'a bunch of town voted for her D1'?
Yeah, she had me super suspicious D2 (behind Penguin) to the point that I refused to join her train until I counterclaimed LUV, but I think I was wrong to do that.

I guess I'm missing the thrust of the case kinda other than the bussing part but maybe I'm the dumb.

There's also the fact that LUV never touched her wagon.

At the time of the Eager / Shadow CC, there were two competing wagons. Shadow and Boring.

LUV chose to jump on the Shadow wagon - stealing a lot of my reasoning to do so.

[Shadow_step]

LUV was never once on the Boring wagon. This is something you can't ignore.

Not only was he not on it, with a quick glance through LUV's ISO he appears to be softly defending boring.

Ever heard of buddying?

LUV not voting boring, how does that make her scum? Its a moot point .
If boring was scum LUV would have jumped on the eager wagon much much earlier to avoid boring being lynched.

[PenguinPower]

Ever heard of buddying?

Yes, and it's not something I think LUV would be able to do.

[nn30]

LUV was never once on the Boring wagon. This is something you can't ignore.

Not only was he not on it, with a quick glance through LUV's ISO he appears to be softly defending boring.

Ever heard of buddying?

LUV not voting boring, how does that make her scum? Its a moot point .
If boring was scum LUV would have jumped on the eager wagon much much earlier to avoid boring being lynched.

Yeah, buddying is possible.

However, I think it's ridiculous that you're seeing exactly 1 way that it went down, and it's your way.

This is the same way you got Eager killed - tunneling him into the ground.

[nn30]

I've been giving boring a free pass so far because people seemed to be a soft target and people voting her because of her previous games as scum.
When I attacked LUV on day 1, boring had a "problem" with it.
I think one of [boring, prism] has to be scum because of LUV's readlist.

You've been defending boring as of late.

Based on that, you must think Prism is the scum.

Please state your case.

[Shadow_step]

I'm conflicted about my boring read and I'm more confident about you(nn) flipping scum so.

[Prism]

nn30 is today's lynch.

The fact that nn30 was off the Eager wagon is more damning. Scum knew he was town and didn't want to be on his wagon. They wanted town to destroy themselves, look at LUV's wagon position. He was so reluctant to join the Eager wagon.

I don't think it's damning to make a vote that three confirmed towns made. Another possible interpretation is that LUV was reluctant to bus Day 1, he took a hard stance between Eager/Shadow by voting Shadow and wound up just lolhammering Eager so I don't really think being on a wagon that flipped town was the biggest concern. His vote makes a lot of sense if boring is scum and Eager is town. P-edit: nn beat me to it but I'll leave this anyway.

Can you explain to me why you don't think his vote makes sense if boring is scum?

Prism, I'm going to need you to reread my post. I said your argument was crap because it's based on the assumption that I have the intelligence and subtlety of an Easter ham, which, frankly, anyone would find a bit insulting. Either way, it's time to move onto crazy tunnel #4. Maaaaybe PP?

I've read it. Saying "I'd have to be stupid to do that" is not convincing. On the contrary, I'm suggesting that you are too intelligent to be surprised by scum's choice of kill given the knowledge that jailing Gamma is a waste of a jail, and that scum can risk one kill-less night. I also think that killing someone who is suspicious of you is a solid play. I see no reason to go on PP-the only questionable thing he's really done is overplay the brash behavior when he realized people townread it. That's scummy, sure, but that's definitely possible as town. If anything right now my second choice would be Grendel-my first impression of his case on Shadow is that he knows he's not winning vs. nn30 and needs a hail mary, especially if you're scum with him. Assuming no two death nights, scum needs at minimum 3 mislynches to win, and they're not going to make themselves. Somebody has to create them, and it's not happening if a red flip comes today.

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence and I'm sorry if it comes off that way. That said, I think it's more likely that you're playing up your offense just to be more dismissive, because I have actual points I've given, and you're willfully just skipping to taking offense and insulting me. You can be frustrated because it's entirely possible that my theories are completely untrue, but acting like they're irrational and impossible is another thing.

What is the rest of the case, beyond 'a bunch of town voted for her D1'?

I guess I'm missing the thrust of the case kinda other than the bussing part but maybe I'm the dumb.

Only speaking for me but a few of the reasons I'm voting her are:
-Maria death
-Acknowledging why Gamma wouldn't be jailed but claims to be confused about why he died
-Voting LUV with me really doesn't convince me given the timing. LUV did something incredibly scummy and it doesn't take a town to see that. This may be confirmation bias speaking but a lot of her votes both today and other days seem opportunistic, ex. #1763 gives the possibility of her switching to Gamma. Kind of hypocritical of me to point out as I've said numerous times to make sure your vote is somewhere it counts, but the who it is question is still there.
-LUV voting Shadow then quickhammering Eager rather than just voting one of Eager/boring in a natural way to begin with is really strange if they're both town.
-Part of it is just me staring blankly at my computer, blankly looking at the names Dierfire/Grendel/boring/PenguinPower, and asking myself who's the most likely scum out of the 4.

Still trying to make time to reread Grendel/Dierfire but life happens and I'm really busy today and tomorrow. I'll try and make it happen ASAP because if this flips town I need to be ready to go with alternative ideas. Right now I'd be pretty lost.

[Shadow_step]

The faster people get over the eager Lynch the better. Make a bridge and get the fuck over it.
When you get a cc someone you lynch them. Simple as, no two ways to it.

[Prism]

The faster people get over the eager Lynch the better. Make a bridge and get the fuck over it.
When you get a cc someone you lynch them. Simple as, no two ways to it.

I was responding directly to a point you made and giving an alternative explanation. You brought it up.

As far as your read on boring/me goes-I don't really get the dichotomy but going with it: What incentive do I have to bus LUV that boring doesn't? If anything boring had everything I did, and a lot more.

[Zoronos]

So, something was bugging me earlier, and I want to go back to it quick.

If your theory is correct, this could be Boring teeing up my mislynch after Grendel flips red.

NN - If you believe this, it predicates on Grendel actually being red.
If you believe Grendel is red, and boring is using a red flip to try and mislynch you, then *Grendel is still red and should get lynched for being red*.

Here, have a 'Zor thinks you're not busing Grendel probably' certificate. You can use it to convince someone that I don't think you're busing and we shouldn't lynch you for it.

(I want to be clear; I'm not saying I think NN's scum. I don't. It's just a common mistake; going second intention when we can go direct)