Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

implosion
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Post Post #2475  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:33 am

Also.

I think we massclaim today?

Why are we not thinking about this?

implosion
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Post Post #2476  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:34 am

if we don't massclaim zoronos dies tonight, it seems foolish to waste a possibly more-informed use of the jailkeeper tonight, etc. Theoretic worst case scenario is scum have a blocker and block whatever other active power we have I guess? but if scum have a blocker we're going to have another significant PR and we'll want to know about that. And also most importantly we're at the point where these claims will REALLY help PoE.

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Post Post #2477  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:37 am

In post 2472, Prism wrote:First, people have asked me my impression of PP-he's a lot less town than he used to be because it seems to me that he was very intentionally overdoing the brash behavior.

This is also entirely possible. To some degree it's starting to look like it's different from how he played last game to the point of him putting on a farce. I still err on the side of him being town because I don't think that's a tact he'd have been likely to take unless he sort of naturally started doing it with the original comments on Grendel and then sort of just went with it as a persona for the game because it was working.

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Post Post #2478  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:10 am

In post 2472, Prism wrote:Hey all,

I see a lot worth replying to but I can't really respond to them how I'd like right now. I will be free after 6 PM EST tomorrow so you can expect more there.

In the meantime, two things I should reply to sooner rather than later. First, people have asked me my impression of PP-he's a lot less town than he used to be because it seems to me that he was very intentionally overdoing the brash behavior. Meta changes and it's possible he's gotten more adept at faking his tone. The key thing to reread here is probably interactions with LUV, I'll review them along with the long-promised Grendel and Dierfire rereads tomorrow. Expect this read to change accordingly.

Second,
In post 2464, Shadow_step wrote:You can't lynch conf town, your case makes me laugh.

In post 2466, Shadow_step wrote:I don't give a flying shit about convincing you of anything.
If you're town you're a moron if you're scum you are trying to lynch me because I pretty much am confirmed town.

Your stupid theory of there being an ascetic RB is pretty much BS. It doesn't matter what Zoro's read on me is. Its the correct play numerically to kill Zoro and keep blocking GE. That way there are no conf towns and my scum team can still push an angle of GE fakeclaoming cop, so implosion wouldn't be clear either.

In post 2467, Shadow_step wrote:Now back to lynching ob scum nn30.
Sorry, can you remind me how you're confirmed town? I don't recall seeing that anywhere. By your own reasoning, there's no reason for any town to believe there's two town ascetics. Maybe we should follow you on that?

I think you're town. I think nn30 is a lot more town than you. Even if me and Implosion are wildly wrong rather than you, and I really doubt that's the case, you haven't done shit to justify your attitude right now, and whatever you're doing isn't convincing anyone.

ISOing you and scanning your votes you've declared Eager definitely scum, Gamma his confirmed scumbuddy, Implosion the next scum, and you didn't even vote LUV. I'm not seeing where this high horse is coming from at any point. I haven't done much better but jesus.


:facepalm:
I didn't vote LUV because I didn't want to hammer him prematurely and wanted more discussion. It was me stating an intent to hammer on him which lead to his lynch in the first place . :shifty:
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PenguinPower
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Post Post #2479  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:25 am

In post 2476, implosion wrote:if we don't massclaim zoronos dies tonight, it seems foolish to waste a possibly more-informed use of the jailkeeper tonight, etc. Theoretic worst case scenario is scum have a blocker and block whatever other active power we have I guess? but if scum have a blocker we're going to have another significant PR and we'll want to know about that. And also most importantly we're at the point where these claims will REALLY help PoE.


2nd time you've brought this up. I get the Zoronos bit; but, in a closed setup how is this going to benefit PoE? This is my first time playing one, so if you could explain that bit more.

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Post Post #2480  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:45 am

If we are going to mass claim, zoro should start the popcorn. Or everyone state an order in which they want the MC to happen.
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Post Post #2481  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:47 am

My order is

Nn30
Grendel
Boring
DF
Prism
PP
Implosion
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nn30
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Post Post #2482  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:21 am

Hey Shadow, why don't you state your flip dippin case on me??!!

While you're at it, why don't you refute what Implosion and Prism have had to say, too?

PenguinPower
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Post Post #2483  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:25 am

Hmm...

boring
Grendel
Nn30
Prism
DF
Shadow
Implosion

Shadow_step
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Post Post #2484  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:25 am

In post 2483, PenguinPower wrote:Shadow


I've already claimed.
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PenguinPower
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Post Post #2485  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:27 am

Right...so just delete that out.

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Post Post #2486  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:29 am

Where are you putting yourself?
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Shadow_step
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Post Post #2487  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:30 am

In post 2482, nn30 wrote:Hey Shadow, why don't you state your flip dippin case on me??!!

While you're at it, why don't you refute what Implosion and Prism have had to say, too?


cause of the way you pushed my lynch after my claim. It was beneficial to you as scum to get me lynched, after my flip you would have lynched eager because I cced him. 2 free mislynches.
DF's point about how you were the only unflipped town on the boring wagon.
POE
In post 2344, Shadow_step wrote:So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]


I like you for scum out of these.
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Post Post #2488  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:34 am

ebwop

In post 2487, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2482, nn30 wrote:Hey Shadow, why don't you state your flip dippin case on me??!!

While you're at it, why don't you refute what Implosion and Prism have had to say, too?


cause of the way you pushed my lynch after my claim. It was beneficial to you as scum to get me lynched, after my flip you would have lynched eager because I cced him. 2 free mislynches.
DF's point about how you were the only unflipped town player on the boring wagon.
POE
In post 2344, Shadow_step wrote:So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]


I like you for scum out of these.
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nn30
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Post Post #2489  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:01 am

In post 2487, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2482, nn30 wrote:Hey Shadow, why don't you state your flip dippin case on me??!!

While you're at it, why don't you refute what Implosion and Prism have had to say, too?


cause of the way you pushed my lynch after my claim. It was beneficial to you as scum to get me lynched, after my flip you would have lynched eager because I cced him. 2 free mislynches.
DF's point about how you were the only unflipped town on the boring wagon.
POE
In post 2344, Shadow_step wrote:So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]


I like you for scum out of these.


At the time, you called me a townie who couldn't see last what was in front of him. You went as far as calling me conf town. When did you 180 on this stance and why?

Why didn't I push for your lynch day two then? Why would I push so hard on you D1 when eager was very likely going to get lynched anyways? What's the incentive to anything other than watch?

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Post Post #2490  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:09 am

In post 2489, nn30 wrote:At the time, you called me a townie who couldn't see last what was in front of him. You went as far as calling me conf town. When did you 180 on this stance and why?


Cause I thought eager was scum then.
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Post Post #2491  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:11 am

In post 2489, nn30 wrote:Why didn't I push for your lynch day two then? Why would I push so hard on you D1 when eager was very likely going to get lynched anyways? What's the incentive to anything other than watch?


I already answered the second question.
first and third questions are rhetorical I can't read your mind.
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PenguinPower
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Post Post #2492  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:20 am

In post 2486, Shadow_step wrote:Where are you putting yourself?


Before implosion, I guess, since he's conf!town.

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Post Post #2493  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:27 am

In post 2491, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2489, nn30 wrote:Why didn't I push for your lynch day two then? Why would I push so hard on you D1 when eager was very likely going to get lynched anyways? What's the incentive to anything other than watch?


I already answered the second question.
first and third questions are rhetorical I can't read your mind.


If your scum read is based off of my reaction to your CC on D1, the fact that I didn't push you at all on D2 should be more than enough to remove your scum read. I didn't follow through with the 'scum play' you've identified.

The strength of your case on me =/= the strength of your confidence in your read. It's disconcerting actually.

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Post Post #2494  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:51 pm

In post 2487, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2482, nn30 wrote:Hey Shadow, why don't you state your flip dippin case on me??!!

While you're at it, why don't you refute what Implosion and Prism have had to say, too?


cause of the way you pushed my lynch after my claim. It was beneficial to you as scum to get me lynched, after my flip you would have lynched eager because I cced him. 2 free mislynches.
DF's point about how you were the only unflipped town on the boring wagon.
POE
In post 2344, Shadow_step wrote:So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]


I like you for scum out of these.

@the poe point, grendel & dier are my best picks for second scum like I've said so I've no problem with that list.

But as for the voting you point... that's just a really flat way of looking at the game. You're basically saying "a vote on me has an obvious scum motivation, therefore it was scum-motivated." And I'll agree with you on that antecedent; the scum motivation of wanting to chain mislynches on you and eager makes plenty of sense. But the existence of a scum motivation for doing something doesn't mean that scum will do it... and this goes doubly so when there was already another scum doing it and no town (nn and LUV were the only ones voting you for quite a while, and it would be somewhat unusual for two scum to maintain a wagon together on a townie for a long time).

More to the point,

Shadow wrote:Cause I thought eager was scum then.

I could use this by a slightly weaker form of your logic (pushing a mislynch rather than pushing a chain of mislynches) to justify a scumread on you. Pushing the eager lynch was beneficial to scum because it secured him as a mislynch.

More generally I could use your line of reasoning to justify basically anyone who ever voted town as scum. Gamma voted you late on d1 as well; ought we to have scumread him for it?

You cite the "way" he pushed on you, which is the start of an actual case, but you never elaborate on it. What about the way he pushed was more likely to be scum motivated than town motivated?

And the boring wagon is, again, also a cornerstone of my case... I think it decently strongly paints nn or boring as scum. And I see supplementary reasons raining from the sky to townread nn and scumread boring.

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Post Post #2495  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:59 pm

In post 2479, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 2476, implosion wrote:if we don't massclaim zoronos dies tonight, it seems foolish to waste a possibly more-informed use of the jailkeeper tonight, etc. Theoretic worst case scenario is scum have a blocker and block whatever other active power we have I guess? but if scum have a blocker we're going to have another significant PR and we'll want to know about that. And also most importantly we're at the point where these claims will REALLY help PoE.


2nd time you've brought this up. I get the Zoronos bit; but, in a closed setup how is this going to benefit PoE? This is my first time playing one, so if you could explain that bit more.

Basically, there's a benchmark for how much town power will be in a mini normal and if we all claim we can speculate about how much power is left unaccounted for. There may be town power roles who have useful information which can be used to speculate further, or there may be confirmable roles or roles that can let us eliminate people as scum as well. Or people might claim contradictory roles or information. Mostly though it can just be used to speculate on which roles are likely in the setup together; I've caught scum just from massclaim analysis.

If someone contentious like boring or nn happens to be a major power role claimant and we have good reason to believe them as town from that claim, it massively simplifies the gamestate; if someone currently less contentious like me or prism does, then we at least won't really lose much because we have a high-priority kill target already claimed in Zoronos (and I for one believe him).

Additionally, these claims can inform who Zoronos targets tonight, especially if we lynch scum today. I know we went through this song and dance in our last game with shannon but if we lynch scum today, Zoronos should have stated his target beforehand so that if he dies, we get a pseudo-clear. We don't want Zoronos accidentally blocking a town power role like a tracker who could get an extremely useful result in that situation.

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Post Post #2496  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:04 pm

Can you post your list?
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Shadow_step
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Post Post #2497  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:05 pm

Nn hasn't postrd his list after calling me out for dodging questions. Oh well
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Post Post #2498  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:33 pm

Order is variable but looks something like:
boring->dier->grendel->prism->penguin->nn->me
I'm fine with switching dier/grendel around and fine with shuffling nn/penguin/prism because they're still jostling for position among how strongly I townread them. This is probably how it looks based solely on my reads right now at this moment but I'm also fine with, for instance, nn going earlier if his alignment is still a point of contention.

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Post Post #2499  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:37 pm

I'll make an average of everyone's list and we'll MC according to that.
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