Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over


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Post Post #2550 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:53 pm

Post by Prism »

@implosion:
What do you think of his questions directed at LUV? The reason they're a big red flag for me is that they're a big chance for LUV to give content, presumably to show Grendel and others he's town or scum, but Grendel never follows up despite LUV's comprehensive answers to his rigorous questions.

I view it as highly likely they were asked for LUV's sake rather than Grendel's given their other interactions. I considered that the last line would be better for the scum PT but 1. It's just giving context to the questions and 2. We don't know how extensively scum is using their daychat.
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Post Post #2551 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:58 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:07 pmMy list is: Grendel, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Shadow, nn30.


and where are you putting yourself?
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"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel
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Post Post #2552 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:00 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:07 pmI realize Shadow is giving us all a collective headache but this has become a serious distraction.


You are ignoring all my points for nn scum and then you'll ask me why I think nn is scum. :roll:
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Post Post #2553 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:11 pm

Post by implosion »

Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:53 pm
@implosion:
What do you think of his questions directed at LUV? The reason they're a big red flag for me is that they're a big chance for LUV to give content, presumably to show Grendel and others he's town or scum, but Grendel never follows up despite LUV's comprehensive answers to his rigorous questions.

I view it as highly likely they were asked for LUV's sake rather than Grendel's given their other interactions. I considered that the last line would be better for the scum PT but 1. It's just giving context to the questions and 2. We don't know how extensively scum is using their daychat.

My problem with that particular instance is that it seems like luv's responses might have been in a sea of posts that Grendel maybe never got around to reading? It is still notable that he didn't look for it later and it does fit in with a trend of sort of throwing out trains of thought and not seeing them through to the end.

I also don't particularly want unilateral control of the lynch. I'm wrong sometimes :X and I mean i don't think it would take an oracle to figure out who i would be killing with unilateral power but I think the discussion/democratic process is useful.

I am going to renege on putting any thought into shadow at the moment. It really doesn't seem worth it to do anything but write him off as town at least for now.

Still need to put some more thought into grendel (and am very curious as i've said about his next couple posts). And dier. But like. every game of mafia there's always that one person who you're like, oh god, they're in this game and i like haven't read a thing they've said and i feel like i haven't interacted with them and they voted on some wagons i guess but oh look
gets distracted by all of the other players in the game


that's more or less how i feel about dier atm. Nothing he's said or done has strongly stuck with me as alignment indicative. I think I mentioned something really weakly scummy forever ago but yeah. Nothing concrete. Will need some sort of reread.
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Post Post #2554 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:19 pm

Post by Prism »

Shadow_step wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:58 pm
Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:07 pmMy list is: Grendel, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Shadow, nn30.


and where are you putting yourself?
You shouldn't be putting yourself anywhere but at the very top if you're town. It is inherently suboptimal to have town claim before scum. Would you like to guess which one of the two I think I am?

Now what do you think about Grendel?

P-Edit:
Shadow_step wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:00 pmYou are ignoring all my points for nn scum and then you'll ask me why I think nn is scum. :roll:
No, I haven't and I won't, because
I already fucking responded to it in #2421 and #2423
because I actually try to take other people's views into account.

Again, please, for the sake of the game, get off your high horse, it's annoying as hell, because the sooner you do so the sooner we might actually start listening to you.

This is a team game.
I have ego issues of my own, I get it. It's incredibly hard to stay patient when you think everyone else is bad. Right now I'm being very impatient with you, and snapping at you helps little. You can relish being right on nn30 all you want if you are. It's easy to bask in the thought of being a better player than anyone else, but do you know what's better than that?
Winning the goddamn game.
Please work with us here.
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Post Post #2555 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:31 pm

Post by Prism »

implosion wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:11 pmAnd dier. But like. every game of mafia there's always that one person who you're like, oh god, they're in this game and i like haven't read a thing they've said and i feel like i haven't interacted with them and they voted on some wagons i guess but oh look gets distracted by all of the other players in the game
Bad part about this is Dierfire is demonstrably very competent and wellspoken, a difficult read, and if he's scum he's likely to go all the way to the end. This difficulty is exactly why he has the status but that doesn't make me feel better about him maintaining this "To Do" status with me for so long.
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Post Post #2556 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:35 pm

Post by Prism »

Hate to consecutively post so many times today but:
Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:19 pmNow what do you think about Grendel?
To make this more explicit, because I know you townread him, this is in the context of my post about him.

Read it as "What do you think of my case about Grendel?" rather than straightforward what you think about him in general.
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Post Post #2557 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:43 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:35 pmHate to consecutively post so many times today but:
Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:19 pmNow what do you think about Grendel?
To make this more explicit, because I know you townread him, this is in the context of my post about him.

Read it as "What do you think of my case about Grendel?" rather than straightforward what you think about him in general.


I townread him previously on day 1, not so much now. I'm fine with his lynch.
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Post Post #2558 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:44 pm

Post by Shadow_step »

Prism wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:19 pmNo, I haven't and I won't, because I already fucking responded to it in #2421 and #2423 because I actually try to take other people's views into account.


I meant about nn calling me conf biased, not the previous stuff.
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Post Post #2559 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:42 am

Post by Dierfire »

@Grendel

Grendel wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:03 pmI meant to ask this earlier, but do you know if our mod had knowledge of 1809?

I feel like most people are viewing this as a left felid theory, and I want something to reel them into the possibility that Shadow is scum. I am interested in any further considerations you have for me.

You said that your vote on me was PoE, have you found anything beyond that since?

I don't know whether the Mod had any knowledge of that game. On further consideration, though, I'm not sure that any was needed. If your theory is that Shadow_step has a Mafia Ascetic role, the Roleblocker function is not necessary to explain the decision to kill Gamma Emerald, right? In fact, I'd think that a Mafia team with an Ascetic Roleblocker (and one capable of killing and blocking by night according to the opening post) could get away with either action, whereas a Mafia team with an Ascetic Goon would be more likely to go after the claimed Cop.

Anyway, I've reviewed the Shadow_step again, and while to a certain degree I agree with the ideas that he has been playing in an unhelpful manner, I think that his claim is more likely to come from a Town Ascetic role than a Mafia Ascetic role. At this point, the only thing that would make me want to lynch Shadow_step is if we have a set of claims that supports the existence of a Mafia Ascetic role over a Town Ascetic role.

Although it's true that I base my read on you primarily on POE, I do also stand by the things that I said to nn30 in (that your treatment of Lil Uzi Vert reads like creating distance), and the more recent points by Prism () also highlighted some ways in which your treatment of Lil Uzi Vert reads like a soft defense.
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Post Post #2560 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:44 am

Post by Dierfire »

@PenguinPower

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 pm
boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:24 pmYou'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.


You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.

I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.

Spoiler: Quotes
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:27 pmI am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. That alone though isn't a strong enough for me to jump on this wagon although I agree with a lot of what Diefire presented.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:40 pmDiefire - I liked every single one of his observations he's made so far and agree with almost all of them except the likelihood of Gamma and PP being a team. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I just don't try to look for teams early on in the game and I like to focus on one person at a time once I feel 90% sure they're scum.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:20 pmWhy Dierfire? To me, he's trying really hard to sort out who he feels is suspicious and none of the cases he presented so far have read like scum trying to push a mislynch.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:47 amAnyway, I protected Dierfire Night 1. He was one of my strongest town reads and I thought scum would be threatened by the observations he made.
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Post Post #2561 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:44 am

Post by Dierfire »

My list for mass claim:

Grendel
boring
PenguinPower
nn30
Prism

I'll go as late as I can, but I certainly don't mind going before Prism and nn30.
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Post Post #2562 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:08 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Dierfire wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:44 am
@PenguinPower

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 pm
boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:24 pmYou'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.


You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.

I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.

Spoiler: Quotes
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:27 pmI am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. That alone though isn't a strong enough for me to jump on this wagon although I agree with a lot of what Diefire presented.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:40 pmDiefire - I liked every single one of his observations he's made so far and agree with almost all of them except the likelihood of Gamma and PP being a team. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I just don't try to look for teams early on in the game and I like to focus on one person at a time once I feel 90% sure they're scum.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:20 pmWhy Dierfire? To me, he's trying really hard to sort out who he feels is suspicious and none of the cases he presented so far have read like scum trying to push a mislynch.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:47 amAnyway, I protected Dierfire Night 1. He was one of my strongest town reads and I thought scum would be threatened by the observations he made.


Fair, but you never really had any strong suspicion on you, and you certainly were never at L-2 when the defense came.
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Post Post #2563 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:35 am

Post by podoboq »

Official Vote Count 3.13
LynchingWith 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Grendel
(3): Zoronos, Dierfire, Prism
boring
(2): implosion, PenguinPower
nn30
(1): Shadow_step
PenguinPower
(1): boring
Shadow_step
(1): Grendel

Not Voting
(1): nn30

V/LA
: Zoronos


Deadline
: (expired on 2016-11-14 13:30:00)
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"
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Post Post #2564 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:36 am

Post by Shadow_step »

So far the avg order is

Grendel
Boring
PP
nn30
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Implosion
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Post Post #2565 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:39 am

Post by Shadow_step »

Here is what we do.
We claim in that order first.
Even if you think you can CC a claim don't jump the order. Wait for your turn.

After claiming is complete. The PRs will claim their n1 action.
After that their n2 action.
Thoughts ?
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Post Post #2566 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:44 am

Post by PenguinPower »

I would prefer nn30 before me, but sure, why not...
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Post Post #2567 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:34 am

Post by boring »

Wow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:

1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).

2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.

3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).
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Post Post #2568 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:47 am

Post by boring »

Dierfire wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:44 am
@PenguinPower

PenguinPower wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 pm
boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:24 pmYou'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.


You actually seem to be, on his ISO read. At least, the only one I was able to discern. Please feel free to find another.

I'm surprised that boring didn't answer this, but I can find one--me! I've included several quotes below.

Spoiler: Quotes
Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:27 pmI am pretty wary of Penguin, especially after how hypocritical he's been about Grendal's RQS. That alone though isn't a strong enough for me to jump on this wagon although I agree with a lot of what Diefire presented.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:40 pmDiefire - I liked every single one of his observations he's made so far and agree with almost all of them except the likelihood of Gamma and PP being a team. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I just don't try to look for teams early on in the game and I like to focus on one person at a time once I feel 90% sure they're scum.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:20 pmWhy Dierfire? To me, he's trying really hard to sort out who he feels is suspicious and none of the cases he presented so far have read like scum trying to push a mislynch.

Lil Uzi Vert wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:47 amAnyway, I protected Dierfire Night 1. He was one of my strongest town reads and I thought scum would be threatened by the observations he made.

Thank you. I've had limited free-time lately, so I hadn't gotten around to looking yet.
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Post Post #2569 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:35 am

Post by nn30 »

boring wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:34 amWow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:

1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).

2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.

3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).


So, you don't like the current pushes and you present two alternatives.

Can you give a little more on the Penguin / Shadow cases? Or point to where you have already done so?
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Post Post #2570 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:01 am

Post by Shadow_step »

boring wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:34 amWow, you guys have had a busy day (or so) Here is some quick input:

1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).

2) Penguin is still atop my list, but Grendel's argument on Shadow made a lot of sense to me. I don't feel like he's made any positive contributions to the game overall, which is a telling thing in the long run. I'd still prefer a Penguin lynch today, but I think I'd be willing to vote Shadow, if it comes down to that.

3) I really don't understand the pushes on Grendel or nn30 (nor my own for that matter, but I've been scum-read from go). Neither of them are the tippy top of my town list, but I can't see myself voting either of them today (barring something substantially scummy occurring to implicate them, of course).


Lol of course.
Another one who believes the scum team is luv, penguin, shadow.
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Post Post #2571 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:20 am

Post by boring »

@nn30

My case on Penguin as presented today
Spoiler:
boring wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:56 amHonestly, Penguin, your push on nn30 is part of what's making me drag my feet on him. Sure, you hammered LUV, but that was after the gambit, when it was clear he was getting lynched anyway. In fact, I'm more than a little surprised that Zoronos wasn't more suspicious of you, based on the votes, than Grendel.

First, you went after Gamma. Then, when he was revealed as cop, you went after Zoronos. LUV continued to get pressure, but you didn't vote him. I think it's very conceivable that the scum team told him to gambit to flush out any protectors. Then, when he got to L-1 again, and the gambit got its results, you hammered with little warning, to cut off further discussion.

VOTE: Penguin


boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:24 pm
PenguinPower wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:44 pm
boring wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:50 amHe's capable of following instructions, right? Do you think he thought up the doc gambit all by his lonesome?


In my experience with him. No, and No. He would need message-crafting level coaching to buddy someone; not just guidance to buddy.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take your word for it. Regardless, I can't be the only person he buddied.

PenguinPower wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:44 pmYou're starting to get a little flippant in your posting, which I appreciate - if you were town.

This comment worries me. I know this is an argument being used by someone(s) to townread you. Your attempt to apply it to me feels ham-handed. It's as if you're trying to reinforce this perception of you, rather than determine my alignment.

boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:25 pm"worries" is the wrong word. I'm past worried. "Irks"? "Helps supports my scum read"? Helps support my scum read.

boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:33 pm
PenguinPower wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 pm

boring wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:24 pmThis comment worries me. I know this is an argument being used by someone(s) to townread you. Your attempt to apply it to me feels ham-handed. It's as if you're trying to reinforce this perception of you, rather than determine my alignment.


I'm me, and you're you. I've been flippant since my first post in this thread. You haven't been, so the change is noteworthy to me.
Still clumsy. First, I've not been flippant at all. Second, who is deliberately flippant the point that they would choose describe themselves as such?


My arguments against Penguin on previous days:
Spoiler:
boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:44 pm
PenguinPower wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:33 pm
boring wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:50 pmHowever, I'm enjoying the irony of PP bucking your analysis when he's going after LUV for his. Not that I'm not fond of LUV right now, either.


So. Many. Pronouns.

I don't know how to respond since it could mean to entirely different things.

What I mean is this: You're scumreading LUV for the answers he gave to Grendel's questions. You're being scumread by Grendel for the answers you gave to the same questions. You're unhappy with Grendel's interpretation of your answers. While I sympathize with your frustration, I find the situation mildly humorous.

Further, I find both you and LUV worth some scrutiny, but that I'm dissatisfied with both your and Grendel's decisions to base scum reads off Grendel's "RQS".


boring wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:26 am
Shadow_step wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:36 pm
boring wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:54 pmGamma is acting exactly like he did in our last game. I tunnelled him for it because he's easy to mislynch. I'm also doubting my scum read on Zoronos. He's just barrelled on without a single adjustment to his behavior. It's not something I'd expect from someone I'm scum-reading for being fake. They're each either cleverer at playing scum than I'm willing to entertain at the moment, or they're not scum.

UNVOTE:


Join me on Penguin please.

He nicely ignored my question.

I don't think your question was terribly interrogative, so that's not a super good reason. The vote on gamma makes no sense though.

@Gamma, I don't think you're too widely town read, so it's not like PP's going against the flow. It seems more like he's testing it.

VOTE: PenguinPower



boring wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:08 pm
PenguinPower
- Bad votes, reactions lack a feeling of authenticity, posts lacking substance, and dismissive in a way that I only see with scum.
[/quote]

Penguin has seemed scummy pretty much the whole game. I don't think he's ever breached null with me, and I do seriously question why people would think he's town. He's so incredibly opportunistic, and he only seems to pick very safe targets to go after.

With Shadow, it's more complicated. He's said a couple things here and there that have pinged me. For example, rereading the fake-claim situation over N2. These posts weren't far apart, but I find that there's a lot wrong with them.
Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:04 amI want to lock LUV into a claim, I think he is also scum.
If his intent to hammer was designed to lock LUV into a claim, why would he immediately believe it?
Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:46 amBrilliant, all the lynch baits got all the good PRs :/
If our most easily mislynched players were in a position to be conf. town, that's an enormous stroke of good luck. This comment reads to me like one of frustration, which makes me question whether it's a scum slip.

His big picture too, has struck me as possibly anti-town. Meaning, he's not made an ounce of positive contribution, in the long run.

Then there's Grendel's argument, which made a lot of sense. I get the impression that not everyone took the time to read it. So here it is again:
Spoiler:
Grendel wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:27 pmThe connection of the second Ascetic being a role blocker:

1) I hate to admit it, but Zoronos is right about scum being way to confidant to go after Gamma without a means to negate his power.

2) If there were two roles capable of negating night actions, the mod would have to decide which gets priority; giving the scum rb an aesthetic modifier solves this issue.

3) With Shadow being an ascetic it makes more sense for him to be a role blocker because his modifier with allow him to bypass Zoronos's blocking ablities.

4) All things considered from a set up perspective, town and mafia having one ascetic makes more sense than town getting
two ascetics
, while scum
also gets something to counter town protectives
. Unless we have another 3+ town power, (lol), then this isn't an incredibility anti-town set up.

I won’t remove a strong man from the table, but given that Shadow is arguing that instead of a role blocker is giving me bad vibes. Especially now that I have had this realization regarding Shadow.

I guess I should address the elephant in the room first. The reason why everybody has a mutual town read on Shadow: his counter claim. Heck, even I thought it was a pretty town motivated thing to do, cc another unlikely role in the only makes sense. The thing is though that I have witnessed enough games to recognizing risky D1 scum gambits. They go hard and long D1, until everybody is convinced that there is no way the slot could be scum. Then once cleared by the other players they lurk until the late game. Compare this to shadow’s activity this game. 166 posts D1. 35 posts D2. 15 posts so far today. He becomes significantly less aggressive with his pushes going into the second day, and many of his opinions are not memorable. As in looking over his iso, I’m seeing things I never really noticed before.

Some things I noticed going through his isolated posts:
Spoiler:
Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:32 amVOTE: LUV

This is a scum PR we need to get riD of ASAP.

Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:52 amLooks like LUV has been advised to play dumb and play newb like.
Needs death.

-Shadow had started out D1 with a vote on LUV, and then proceeds to distance him until he comes to the conclusion that LUV null. Looks like scum pretending to sort scum.
Shadow_step wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:54 am
MariaR wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:52 amN30 has been obv town since the start of this.

The fact gamma isn't obv town when I've obv town read him before is worrying

the LUV townreads make me laugh.

I'm gonna look more into a few players that don't need names but with the amount of people I am slowly going like "you can be town" these players are....


If penguin is scum, LUV is town.
I do agree on that town reading LUV is kinda dumb.

- Its common for scum to link their buddies to other players in mutally exclusive relationships. Though I find the order a bit weird.

-With the usage of the scum pt it is not unreasonable that Shadow could have plotted out his counter claim in advance. I believe he is of the ability to organize this as scum. Town reading him for it would be folly.
Shadow_step wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:35 pmI'm not lynching anyone but eager today.
If there are two ascetics. This game is bastard.

So I'd rather believe eager is scum than this game is bastard.

- Shadow step calling the game bastard seems like a redirect to get town to blame to mod’s set up choices instead of Shadow once Eager flips scum. It also gives him an excuse to spend the whole day tunneling Eager, and be justified by the outcome regardless what Eager flips. He do say this as town, but it'd be an awfully convenit stance to take as scum sense he can look like aggressive town while not actually being aggressive towards other players. So he gets no back lash for statements like this.

Shadow_step wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:32 amHmm I got my facts wrong. Eggman and eager were both useless I thought eager got lynched for the cult win.


- Scum slip. A low expections of Eager. As scum Shadow would view him as an easy mislynch. Suggests that Shadow would have been more confidence pushing a cc on Eager then somebody else.
Shadow_step wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:45 am
If he thinks I'm scum, I would obviously not consider Eager to be town. Why the hell would I? He then says that Eager could be lying town. Implying he knows eager I town. Lying as town is very risky. Not just in that game. But you can get blacklisted.
LUV treats me as if I am town here.

To be noted


- Shadeow’s read of LUV bounces throughout D1, but ultimately it appears that LUV is a null read for him given how Shadow keeps a suspicion on him without acting on it. It isn’t until this point that he seems legitimately interested in lynching LUV… until he moves over to Gamma.
Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:46 amBrilliant, all the lynch baits got all the good PRs :/

VOTE: Nn

- 2092 Immediately buys that LUV is doctor. I think this could be a last second reprieve to see if LUV can live another day or two.
Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:54 amSomeone needs to unvote before luv self hammers.

Shadow_step wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:01 amHe will hammer cause he is scum.
Probably going bonkers in his at.

- 2099 & 2102 This reads like damage control. Trying to back away from LUV as fast as he can.

- Shadow spends a lot of time on set up speculation D2…
Shadow_step wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:48 am
podoboq wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:42 am
Lil Uzi Vert
,
Mafia Goon
, was lynched Day 2.

It is now Night 2. Please PM all night actions to me by the deadline, or bold them in your associated private thread.

Deadline
: (expired on 2016-10-29 08:44:00)


Only if bastars mod hadn't put 2 town ascetics, had this scum fuck day 1.


- Takes credit for the lynch of somebody he only kept as a scum lean and only pushed whenever Shadow thought LUV said something particularly bad. Usually something directed at Shadow too. Also Shadow is once again painting the mod as the scape goat. Maybe it's just me, but shadow has been evading the responsibility for his actions this game, starting with his fake 1-L vote on Pengiun back in Day 1.

Seeing how the most town thing I had to say about Shadow going into today was his behavior D1 tells me that he has been keeping a low profile since Eager flipped. Also nobody pointing out some of these things means that everybody has written off Shadow as town. Which imo is a big mistake that I too was a part of yesterday. The entire purpose of a powerful D1 scum gambit is to rack up enough town cred to slide into the endgame. This is exactly what Shadow is doing.

You know, I had originally thought that Shadow step was an investigative role given his jump on Gamma at the start of D2 along the lines of “Oh yeah, this is scum btw”. I thought that he was softing a guilty, the same way he did at the start of D1 where he remarked how easy the game will be after Eager’s claim. There was also how much attention Shadow gives Maria D1, and her general feelings were that Gamma wasn’t Ob!town like she was expecting him to be. More reasoning I had down in my notes is that two regular townies modified with straight aesthetics modifiers and nothing else, would be really anti town. So I thought that Shadow should be a cop or some such.

My primary reservations on the Shadow case are, first, if he's scum, he's played one hell of a risky game. Second, I'm prone to serious paranoia sometimes, so I have to question whether I've read too much into these details.

Yes, Shadow, I think it possible for the scum team to be LUV-Penguin-Shadow.
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Post Post #2572 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:30 am

Post by Prism »

boring wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:34 am1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).
Why am I so high on this given that you thought my points about you were nonsense, and my reads are close to the reverse of yours?
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Post Post #2573 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:35 am

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Shadow_step wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:44 pmI meant about nn calling me conf biased, not the previous stuff.
I don't think it's what you're making it out to be. Statements that assume the other person is town are common, it's just kind of understood that the conditional qualifier "If you are town" is there. Recognizing he can be wrong and you be town, and speaking to you accordingly, isn't a scumslip.
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Post Post #2574 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:40 am

Post by nn30 »

@Zoronos - You told me to focus earlier when I was attempting to suss out the entire scum team.

I'vie had a night to recover from Shadow being under my skin and I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about that.

Pre-flip associations are a huge no-no in Mafia Scum. In both this game and the other game I've completed on this site, the general consensus on them is that they're a waste of time and an easy way to fake content as scum.

The corollary to this, however, is that post-flip associations DO mean something. We have Maria, Eager, Gamma, and LUV right now as post-flips.

The reason I have a headache right now trying to figure out where to plant my vote is that by choosing a single person among those I find scummy (Penguin / Boring / Grendel / Shadow / Diefire*) means their actions towards the rest of the town, their interactions with LUV, and their interactions with one another in response to pressure should be taken into account. Whoever we decide to lynch today needs to make sense within these interactions. To ignore them would be to ignore important clues.

*Diefire is here because I don't have a reason to town read him.
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