Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

boring
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Post Post #2575  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:09 pm

In post 2572, Prism wrote:
In post 2567, boring wrote:1) It appears that people are using their claim list as a scum-to-town reads list, in which case, here's mine: Penguin, Shadow (already claimed), Dierfire, nn30/Grendel, Prism, Implosion/Zoronos (already claimed).
Why am I so high on this given that you thought my points about you were nonsense, and my reads are close to the reverse of yours?

First, I wouldn't describe our reads as reverse. Yours was Grendel, boring, PenguinPower, Dierfire, Shadow, nn30, which reads like scrambled eggs to me.

Second, thinking you're way off base is different from thinking you're scum. Regardless your rank is less a reflection of you, and more a reflection of the game-state. I think Penguin is the most likely scum, followed by Shadow. Close after that is Dier, whose neutral/null play is concerning. Then nn30's and Grendel's ranks are a bit of a concession to the VCA and POE arguments that can't all be generated by scum. Though while the arguments against nn30 are more likely generated by scum than those against Grendel, nn30 worries me a tiny bit, independently. Though, certainly not enough to leap over my already-bursting scum pool. You're next because you've got nothing particularly scummy going on, and you've banked a few towny moves. Implosion and Zoronos are obviously the highest town, as they're confirmed, and unchallenged JK, respectively.

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Post Post #2576  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:31 pm

Official Vote Count 3.14
LynchingWith 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Grendel (3): Zoronos, Dierfire, Prism
boring (2): implosion, PenguinPower
nn30 (1): Shadow_step
PenguinPower (1): boring
Shadow_step (1): Grendel

Not Voting (1): nn30

V/LA: Zoronos


Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-14 13:30:00)
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Post Post #2577  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:43 pm

LUV v. Shadow_Step -

Spoiler:
This came from page 10 - no longer RVS in my eyes - where LUV had 3 votes (one of them being shadow).
In post 273, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:You keep implying this game will be easy. I seriously hope you have a backup plan for when I flip town.

This came from page 21. In a world where LUV and Shadow are both scum, this means that LUV intentionally engaged with Shadow's hinting at a CC. Unlikely, in my eyes.
In post 522, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Shadow - Like Penguin, I don't get the sense that he's really contributing, he's very quick to just jump on things and doesn't really have sound reasoning for jumping on said things. At first, I thought he was just a VI, but he keeps saying that this game is easy or it's almost solved, which baffles me and makes me uneasy.

This doesn't feel like a partner v. partner interaction (though I could be wrong).
In post 525, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 524, Shadow_step wrote:Calling me a VI? Okay that is just bullshit.
Esp since you have no idea with am I talking about.

Never called you a VI, I thought you was one though. Why so angry?

And you're right, I don't know what you're talking about, but no one else does either. Mind sharing what knowledge you may or may not have to determine how you're finding this game easier then the rest of us?


Conclusion - his interactions with LUV in combination with Shadow's D1 CC, mean he is unlikely to be scum. As much as it pains me to say it, I'm going to need a better reason than he's unhelpful (insufferable) town to push for a lynch on him.


LUV v. Boring

Spoiler:
First instance I found of Boring scum reading LUV - also from page ten. Not RVS any longer.
In post 238, boring wrote:Further, I find both you and LUV worth some scrutiny, but that I'm dissatisfied with both your and Grendel's decisions to base scum reads off Grendel's "RQS".

LUV soft defends Boring.
In post 308, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 304, eagerSnake wrote:I mean I told you guys this a while ago

Do you actual have a case on boring or?

Boring's read on LUV.
In post 476, boring wrote:Lil Uzi Vert - I know people seem mostly over him now, but he's remains one of the scummier posters today. Might be personality.

LUV's 'read' on boring. This reads as NAI IMO.
In post 522, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:boring (null) - While she does ask questions, she doesn't seem like she is actively trying to solve the game and her votes all seem like a stretch or too convenient. I don't know how to put my feelings about her into the words but I can't shake this vibe from her. I think it's mainly her vote on Zoro, which read more to me as nitpicking about inconsistencies rather than looking for scum.

At this time, Eager had 4 votes and Boring was his counter wagon at 3. LUV jumps on the Shadow wagon (which had only 1 vote at the time). People are reading this as LUV avoiding the Boring counterwagon because she's scum but also avoiding the Eager wagon (for some reason). I'm fine with reading it that way but LUV could also just be behaving irrationally.
In post 885, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:VOTE: Shadow
If both of you are town we are seriously fucked.

LUV soft defends Boring again.
In post 1048, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I don't get the case for boring, she's new to site so it's possible she has never seen scum act like Shadow had acted early on in the game, she stated reasons for why she found Eager's claiming terrible and she called him out for coasting. I can see why she voted for Eager.

And again. At this point in my ISO dive, my thought is this: do scum really defend one another this much? I'm leaning towards unlikely.
In post 1303, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Shadow still reads the same to me but I'm willing to move my vote with enough convincing. I still don't buy the case on boring, well I don't buy it enough to believe she's the correct lynch for today.

Another instance of Boring not liking LUV on D1. First off, bussing is bad scum play unless it's necessary. At this point in time, there was no foregone conclusion that LUV would be dead on D2 - ergo bussing him isn't necessary. She even says 'regardless of Eager's flip, LUV could be scum.' She follows this up on D2 by pushing him. This feels towny to me.
In post 1452, boring wrote:I would like to lynch eager today, but if it's absolutely not going to happen, I'd be willing to settle for LUV. He's the most probable scum when I look outside the CC-related wagons. By that, I mean it seems like regardless of eager's flip, LUV could be scum. I admit that part of my reasoning is that he keeps trying to push S_s, which is making zero sense to me. That, and his eagerness to accept bizarre theories just to keep the S_s suspicions going.

Again with the reasoning to scum read LUV on D1. I'll forgive her for not pushing it harder - the Shadow v. Eager mess on D1 derailed everyone else too. If she is scum who just outright gave town her plan, bravo. That's some hilarious stuff there. I'm not inclined to read it this way because I don't think planning to bus from the get go is a good scum plan.
In post 1487, boring wrote:I think LUV has been lurky, beetlegeuse-ish, and unoriginal throughout the game. It's really easy to float to day 1 or day 2 in order to give your teammates something to bus, and that matches his behavior. When he was getting heat, he basically disappeared until people moved onto someone else.
As far as who is more likely to come up with (and follow) crazy theories, I think it's pretty individual. Some people have wild imaginations and are prone to conspiracy. Some people aren't. I can see such a person coming up with something crazy as town or scum (perhaps more likely as town, but how would they know it's crazy as scum if they think it's perfectly sane when they're town). I think scum (or insanely conf.biased town) is more likely to pretend to buy into someone else's crazy theory hoping it'll stick.

First post of D2 - scum reads LUV.
In post 1555, boring wrote:I'm still suspicious of LUV. My read on him was independent of the wagons yesterday. The rest, I'm trying to piece together.

Last one (that isn't related to LUV) - not liking Eager's town block. IMO if you're scum, you either ignore Eager trying to make a town block on D1 or you subtlely encourage him to do so. You don't say 'don't do this you moron.'
In post 278, boring wrote:He probably is. I'm the only person who's vocalized annoyance with the concept of a fake town block. I can do it again too. Only VI's and scum would be content with the idea of unconfirmed town being placed on a town block pedestal.

Conclusion - Boring's interactions with LUV put her in my town pile once more. @Implosion / Prism - at some point we're going to have to reconcile this difference of opinion. Now or later - up to you guys.


Luv V. Grendel
Spoiler:
LUV answered Grendel's RQS questions. NAI.
In post 106, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Sure, I'll play along.

1.) Third party.

2.) No.

3.) No.

4.) No comment.

5.) Very. I feel like I can learn a lot from everyone here.

Grendel's analysis of LUV's RQS. Bold for emphasis. The 'I guess' strikes me as him making a show of not getting anything out of it. Granted - LUV basically gave nothing in his RQS answers, but w/e.
In post 215, Grendel wrote:Lil Uzi Vert: Really guarded and unhelpful. He has played like this as town before though, so it’s hard to anylse this dude. I will say that I expected him to be more verbose with his stance evasion. This is also the first post of his provide content since a naked RVS vote, so that docks some town points. Null I guess.


I have a suspicion LUV and Grendel don't actually talk much beyond this point. After this point in time, they don't talk to each other so much as about each other for the rest of the day. Here are some examples of this.
In post 467, Grendel wrote:Scum with Gamma. Do you really think its LUV?

If Gamma is scum with LUV that hard defense was really ham-fisted.

In post 521, Grendel wrote:
In post 507, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 505, PenguinPower wrote:And LUV seems to be doing...what?

Trying to actively contribute.


Not really. He has been pretty lack luster poster. Even going off the last game.

In post 522, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I actually have some reads but before we get to that I'd like to just say that there's been a lot of talk about my play style mainly from Gamma and Grendal and I'd just like to say that I wasn't in the best place mentally during that game. I honestly had checked out way before I got ran up. Truth is, I don't know what's wrong with the way I play because I've never gotten mislynched before until I've played on here and even then, and so far, I haven't had my play read as lynch bait except the games I've been with you two.

LUV's 'read' on Grendel. NAI.
In post 522, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Grendal - Outside of the RQS, I've liked a lot of the questions he's asks and I think he's trying his hardest to understand the thoughts and motives behind what everyone is saying and doing. His fixation with Gamma is a little weird, but I understand that they're friends and feeling confident that you aren't being doped by a friend can definitely help go a long way into building that town block Snake was talking about.

I'm including this because it doesn't include Grendel at all. My hypothesis is that LUV was trying to point us in all the wrong directions and that the correct directions are explicitly where he isn't pointing.
In post 762, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I think Implosion and nn30 are town, Penguin is scum.
I think you and Diefire are town, and boring I have as null.

If Gamma flipped scum I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.
If Gamma flipped town I would look at boring, Diefire and Implosion.

If Penguin flipped scum, I would look at Implosion and Shadow.
If Penguin flipped town, I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.

Fast forward a million years and we get this. Reads like Grendel hopping on a bus as he watches the LUV lynch gain steam, but leaves room for another wagon if the town changes its mind. Also doesn't jive with the next thing he has to say about LUV. Does he look bad or is he hard to place?
In post 1648, Grendel wrote:Luv looks worse in retrospect then I first thought.

I kind of want to vote Implosion too though.

In post 1710, Grendel wrote:
Luv is all over the place and I'm having trouble pacing him. I definitely didn't like his hammer, or the unnatural transitions in his reads. I can't help feeling like it is all to easy though.


Then, after not speaking of LUV for a long time, just decides to L-1 vote him without stating much of a reason. Seems like a last minute bus to me.
In post 2047, Grendel wrote:I'm too tired to figure out whether or not there is scum between Zoronos and Penguin.

I'll be happy with a LUV flip at this point.

VOTE: LUV

This is 1-L



Conclusion - Grendel's lack of direct interactions with LUV indicate he wasn't trying to sort him. Before you say it Shadow - I know Zoro already pointed this out. I like doing my own research though thank you very much.


VOTE: Grendel

Please look at spoiler tags to see why.


Spoiler:
On another post, another day (when I haven't spent 2 hours on ISO dives) I'll also put some detail into the other things I saw. Here's some bonus information which, if Grendel ends up being scum, will be the basis of where I begin my hunt tomorrow.

Here's where my scum reads (or lack of town reads in Diefire's case) started before doing this (in no particular order) - Penguin / Boring / Grendel / Diefire / Shadow.

I found reason to believe that Penguin isn't a scum team with LUV - their interactions don't feel like partner v. partner. Grendel and Penguin also don't feel like partner v. partner interactions - if Grendel flips scum this will add credence to this theory.

I ruled out Shadow and Boring (for now) as detailed above. This leaves only Diefire.

I'm reading this as 'I'm scum and I want to give the appearance of thinking long and hard about pushing Boring closer to being mislynched.
In post 2426, Dierfire wrote:There's a lot of material that I want to read again. When I'm finished (probably tomorrow), I'll decide whether I want to give hammer intent on boring.

VOTE: Grendel

Relevantly, Diefire made no mention of the fact that town backed down from lynching boring, nor did he post any thoughts on the matter. He just let it slide.


Also, relevantly, he made no mention of the fact that town backed down from lynching boring, nor did he post any thoughts on the matter. He just let it slide.

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Post Post #2578  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:44 pm

That's L-1.

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Post Post #2579  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:55 pm

@boring #2571

Grendel's case holds zero water, he's assuming crazy things like LUV. Who was arguing that I was some gambiting scum who CCed eager to take the pressure of PP and boring. That argument in itself was dumb because I was the one who was pushing the PP wagon quite a bit.
Its the same here, using crazy theories to justify his push on me when simple Occam's razor can dictate that isn't the case.
He also refuses to address why I'm playing sub optimally if I am ascetic RB.

How does believing a claim make me scum? what is your argument here? I don't get it at all.


EDIT: This post has been edited by the moderator for clarity and readability. The original formatting of this post have been saved in the mod thread in the case that this was made in error.
Last edited by podoboq on Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #2580  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:58 pm

We still have the whole mass claim to do and you're putting Grendel on l-1 :facepalm:
A derp hammer and we lose out gaining a lot of info.
Unvote him now
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Post Post #2581  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:01 pm

In post 2426, Dierfire wrote:There's a lot of material that I want to read again. When I'm finished (probably tomorrow), I'll decide whether I want to give hammer intent on boring.

That's the first helpful thing you've said all day. Thank you.

UNVOTE:

Consider that where I'll put my vote in the future.

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Post Post #2582  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:01 pm

What the hell was all that quote gibberish in your previous post?

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Post Post #2583  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:04 pm

@Shadow_step #2579
Uhh wrong quote I guess ^^

@Mod can you fix #2579, please?

EDIT: This post has been edited by the moderator for clarity and readability. The original formatting of this post have been saved in the mod thread in the case that this was made in error.
Last edited by podoboq on Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #2584  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:04 pm

Gah it happened again!

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Post Post #2585  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:05 pm

FFS stupid phone, delete this post please ^^
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Post Post #2586  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:08 pm

And nobody puts Grendel at L-1 until claims are finished and Zoro has outed his jail for the night.
In post 2575, boring wrote:nn30 worries me a tiny bit, independently. You're next because you've got nothing particularly scummy going on, and you've banked a few towny moves.
The reasoning behind these isn't readily obvious to me. Can you explain them more?
In post 2581, nn30 wrote:
In post 2426, Dierfire wrote:There's a lot of material that I want to read again. When I'm finished (probably tomorrow), I'll decide whether I want to give hammer intent on boring.

That's the first helpful thing you've said all day. Thank you.
What?

Shadow turning into a talking orange twice made me crack up, I really needed that.

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Post Post #2587  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:10 pm

@Prism - quote derp. Goddamnit lol. The quote from Dierfire wasn't supposed to be there.

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Post Post #2588  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:18 pm

Tldr of Boring's case on PP is that he quick hammered his buddy to stop town discussing more bla bla.
Going into night I considered this, but its a very weak case at best.
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Post Post #2589  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:21 pm

Has everyone weighed in on the mass claim thing? Can we get going on that?

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Post Post #2590  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:27 pm

In post 2565, Shadow_step wrote:Here is what we do.
We claim in that order first.
Even if you think you can CC a claim don't jump the order. Wait for your turn.

After claiming is complete. The PRs will claim their n1 action.
After that their n2 action.
Thoughts ?


Grendel can start
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Post Post #2591  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:29 pm

In post 2564, Shadow_step wrote:So far the avg order is

Grendel
Boring
PP
nn30
DF
Prism
Implosion


The order
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Post Post #2592  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:29 pm

In post 2498, implosion wrote:Order is variable but looks something like:
boring->dier->grendel->prism->penguin->nn->me
I'm fine with switching dier/grendel around and fine with shuffling nn/penguin/prism because they're still jostling for position among how strongly I townread them. This is probably how it looks based solely on my reads right now at this moment but I'm also fine with, for instance, nn going earlier if his alignment is still a point of contention.



I'm fine with Grendel starting ftr, but here's what our cop cleared Implosion wanted.

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Post Post #2593  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:13 pm

In post 2574, nn30 wrote:@Zoronos - You told me to focus earlier when I was attempting to suss out the entire scum team.

I'vie had a night to recover from Shadow being under my skin and I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about that.

Pre-flip associations are a huge no-no in Mafia Scum. In both this game and the other game I've completed on this site, the general consensus on them is that they're a waste of time and an easy way to fake content as scum.

The corollary to this, however, is that post-flip associations DO mean something. We have Maria, Eager, Gamma, and LUV right now as post-flips.

The reason I have a headache right now trying to figure out where to plant my vote is that by choosing a single person among those I find scummy (Penguin / Boring / Grendel / Shadow / Diefire*) means their actions towards the rest of the town, their interactions with LUV, and their interactions with one another in response to pressure should be taken into account. Whoever we decide to lynch today needs to make sense within these interactions. To ignore them would be to ignore important clues.

*Diefire is here because I don't have a reason to town read him.

umm... okay?
I'm not sure what question you're asking me here.
I agree, use what you know about the scum that have flipped. Be clear about it when you use that kind of thing and explain your thinking when you do so. But yeah, totally legit to use flipped scum.

So, what about Shadow or whomever did you want to talk to me about?
I'm having a little bit of trouble parsing out what this post is saying beyond "I'm not sure what to do here". Which is totally fine, but let's figure it out.

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Post Post #2594  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:20 pm

In post 2593, Zoronos wrote:
In post 2574, nn30 wrote:@Zoronos - You told me to focus earlier when I was attempting to suss out the entire scum team.

I'vie had a night to recover from Shadow being under my skin and I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about that.
U
Pre-flip associations are a huge no-no in Mafia Scum. In both this game and the other game I've completed on this site, the general consensus on them is that they're a waste of time and an easy way to fake content as scum.

The corollary to this, however, is that post-flip associations DO mean something. We have Maria, Eager, Gamma, and LUV right now as post-flips.

The reason I have a headache right now trying to figure out where to plant my vote is that by choosing a single person among those I find scummy (Penguin / Boring / Grendel / Shadow / Diefire*) means their actions towards the rest of the town, their interactions with LUV, and their interactions with one another in response to pressure should be taken into account. Whoever we decide to lynch today needs to make sense within these interactions. To ignore them would be to ignore important clues.

*Diefire is here because I don't have a reason to town read him.

umm... okay?
I'm not sure what question you're asking me here.
I agree, use what you know about the scum that have flipped. Be clear about it when you use that kind of thing and explain your thinking when you do so. But yeah, totally legit to use flipped scum.

So, what about Shadow or whomever did you want to talk to me about?
I'm having a little bit of trouble parsing out what this post is saying beyond "I'm not sure what to do here". Which is totally fine, but let's figure it out.


Summary: we have a ton of flips now. Using them to guess at likely scum teams should be A OK.

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Post Post #2595  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:19 pm

In post 2585, Shadow_step wrote:FFS stupid phone, delete this post please ^^

I don't know what made those two posts look stupid, but I'll try to fix it later. Not deleting any posts, no matter how ugly they are.

Edit: Shadow_step's posts #2579 and #2583 have been edited due to significant readability errors. They have not been modified in content, only in formatting. If you believe I have made a mistake, or you would like to see the original posts, they will be archived in the mod thread for after the game.
Last edited by podoboq on Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2596  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:08 am

In post 2532, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 2522, Grendel wrote:Right, lets do it:
Penguin
Deirfire
Nn30
Prism
Boring
Grendel
Implosion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Zoronos, I would love to hear a more developed case against me frankly.

-Optimal bussing position, not moved by LUV’s original claim
-My reaction to your vote, and the scum tells you associated with it.
-Using bad play to hide scummy intent

Is there anything else here you want to add?

@ALL

Call me egotistical, but I’d like a novel written about my escapades if I’m gonna be mislynched. Can people who are scum reading me detail why they are scum reading me currently?


Holy shit list makes no sense.
So your top 2 candidates for scum and PP and I?
So in a world where I am buddies with PP and LUV. On day 1 I make a crazy push for LUV head, then I start a PP wagon? Then I fake hammer him? LUV has both me and PP as his scum reads. LUV busses me and distances from Penguin.
All this distancing and bussing on day 1, are you for real?


Truth be told you aren’t my strongest scum read. I mainly went after you because i figured that if i didn’t do it now, and I’m lynched today, then nobody would do it in the future. At least, not the likes of Zoronos, or Implosion who are living in a world were scum never pull any unusual gambits. I can drop it since my vote and case have established the reasonable doubt which won’t let you slide into the endgame unnoticed. I’m glad to see my voice went into good use.

My goal since 2372 was to line up Penguin, Deirfire, then you as the lynches for the next three days whether I’m alive to see them or not. I believe I have you boxed in for lylo, so now I work on Penguin, and then... Deirfire.

As far as teams go i think its:

LUVxPengiunxDeirfire or LUVxDierfirexShadow

I think there is a small chance of LUVxDeirfirexnn30 too, but i trust that nn30 won’t be able to keep up the charade if he is scum into the endgame. Which is a lot of trust that a player will screw up, but this town as a whole isn’t super dumb, and if nn30 is scum i think they catch on eventually. I’m sure you won’t let them forget will you shadow? :)

The reason I want Penguin over Deirfire is that i believe his lynch will be the easiest to convince people of, it will clear boring, and i generally find him to be the scummiest of the three lynches I want.

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Post Post #2597  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:11 am

I am a VT.

But nobody hammer before I get all my cases out.

It will probably take a couple days to get all the information together since I am tired out tonight, and I am busy tomorrow.

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Post Post #2598  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:11 am

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Penguin Power

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Post Post #2599  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:21 am

In post 2533, nn30 wrote:
In post 2524, Grendel wrote:


My scum reading Shadow has less to do with you and more to do with his actions today. You pushing him adds a confusing wrinkle though.

I've got this big convoluted triangle bouncing around in my brain.

Shadow has been acting ridiculous all day - plenty of people have pointed this out. Not going to beat a dead horse. He feels scummy for this reason.

Beginning of the day you hopped onto my wagon (as the 3rd voter) with some flimsy reasoning and then wrote half a novel about why you hopped off. Felt weird to me - like you hopped on opportunistically and then hopped off when the lynch wasn't going to happen. You then move onto push Shadow.

Which makes me think you two can't be scum together.

Then there's the case on boring - which you have written at length that you simply don't agree with the reasons she's being scum read. This links the two of you in my eyes - it seems that, if you're scum, you're distracting from Boring by pushing Shadow.

Then Shadow is pushing me - which could also be a distraction from Boring.

Then there's Diefire who nobody has a handle on yet.

Truth is, I'd rate a 75% chance of the remaining scum being in these four. I just don't know how the puzzle fits together.


I will be honest; my vote on you at the start of the day was pretty lazy. I felt like had you pretty much pegged as scum off the wagon. I still had my strong town read on shadow, and while I wasn’t particularly keen on Penguin, I thought you were worse in comparison. I thought the likihood that you are scum was like… in the 90’s percentile. And if that doesn’t make me confidant, and a bit lazy, coming into today then I don’t know what would.

Hold on there buckaroo, you wanted my current read on you. It wasn’t like that “half a novel” was unprovoked. Also gross word usage, if you consider four paragraphs half a novel then… idk, just seems like a bad description. You wanted me to respond with a read. If I said, “I think you’re town”. Would that seriously been enough for you?

If I had done that then you would be accusing me of being too vague right now.

I just find that you being suspicious of Shadow when I was the one who first called him out, while keeping me as top scum is pretty bad imo. You being perfectly happy to see Me, boring, shadow, and Penguin lynched makes me wonder if we are all town, and you are scum. You have Dierfire out there too, but given that town has four lynches left. It comes across like a back pocket read. Since lynching us in order of who you find most scummy would be Me<Boring<PengiunPower<Shadow. That mean you would not actually have to see Deirfire lynched. So you sayyou can't read him, and say he is probably scum for it, but you aren't willing to lynch him over the other four right?

This is part of the reason I could see a LUVxDeirfirexnn30 scum team btw.

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