Micro 649: Normal Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Thanks Leo.

Can I have any facts? 18 pages isn't bad at all to read so I'll be up to date shortly.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It's a Gamma/Leon or

Gamma/Heart team

. You'll all see it once I am hammered.

This

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Opportunistic in what way?

Tere ignored the fact she stated she would be gone and decided to push her on the fact she was gone. Reeks of opportunism to me.

It's Gamma or nobody for me today as we stand. Either of them could work.

Sell this.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Ignore 356 quote.

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Are you caught up? If so, please explain your reads.

This game is a shit fest.
The lynch on the cop without actually discussing the claim was terrible.
How many quick lynches turn out to be a town hammer over scum? It's more often town.
If you spent 10mins checking his meta you would see the style of play he has.

Heart is never flipping town here.

No lynch today, mass claim tomorrow

Heart
Gamma
Me
Leo
McMenno
Sgz

Take out who dies. Work out hearts partner from there.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I would lean Sgz as hearts buddy now.

Leo and McMenno are town easily.

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It was a slip, in that I forgot Jaack was a Bodyguard and might not have been the target of the NK. I also said there was no N2 NK, do you think that means that I let it slip I'm scum who did a no-NK gambit?

Nobody was killed, so no it doesn't.

Nice out of character emotional reaction.

It wasn't a scum slip get over yourself.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Leon hasn't actually done anything since the start of D2 other than blend. And at the start of D2 he was avoiding joining the itlepip wagon, it's certainly plausible he knew he was town.

The wagon was terrible, it's good he wanted to avoid it.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yeah he's flipping scum as well.
Sgz - updated read of heart please.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

90% certain Heart is town.

We're not lynching any of my 3 are we?

Okay, explain why town.
Give examples and I'll work on my reasons why that slot is flipping scum.
Do you believe that scum chose to not kill last night?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't see a lot from heart being town. Humour me and go over it again.
Also confirm if you think scum chose to not night kill.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Okay... so you think in 9 player game town have a 1 shot cop, a Bodyguard, an investigating role and another protective or BP role?
If you truly believed that they chose to not night kill then you would not have heart as town so easily.

With a dead Bodyguard scum lack little motive to no kill as it shows that it's most likely the only protective.

This is why you're scum for a start and this is why heart is your buddy.

The push on Gamma from heart is too fake and forced and the "soft investigator" claim is an obvious lie. If really town then heart would want to give scum a chance to fake claim instead, builds up an obvious play of "I claimed first let's lynch the counter claim as it's MYLO and they gain more from lying".

Gamma push was the back up plan and the no kill (yes scum chose to night kill) was a backup plan to a no lynch today to claim the BP in LYLO.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It was a prank bro!
I read it as normal game.

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So it's a power heavy game.
I guess that changes a lot then.

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You do realise your scum two is based on scum coming up with a weird plan and two other backup plans to the original far fetched plan right?

If this was just a normal I'd be spot on.

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Maybe Heart is town then.
I'll re look over the iso but I feel the point on Gamma from heart will stand.

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I always jump the gun!
Concerning sgz, he just seems to be voicing from afar, going with what ever flow he can.

Scum is 2 out of Leon/Gamma/McMenno. At that time, I couldn't really see how Gamma was the town one of the 3. I think I can now, so not really selling. Leon has overtaken him now.

This is terrible thought. I never see him actually explain any reads, and even when asked last night he just flicked around.

380 - There's nothing to back any of these reads, even Heart.
Always seems happy to lynch where others are, but never actually puts down a vote.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also, if you think my scumreads are wrong, can you please say why you think that is. Thanks.

This was more due to setup.
Originally I was disliking Gamma from day 1, but after reading your page by page level of scum or whatever it was I instantly disliked your entrance.
You say that it doesn't make sense that Gamma pushed with you, but yet why doesn't it? If your thought process was that BYF was scum, then why not his?

McMenno is a town read from meta mainly. He looks pretty scummy in most games he plays to be fair.
I just don't feel scummy on him in this game.

Leo, I'm stumped on. His comment wasn't a slip at all. I need to read him over again but I don't think I've ever read him properly.
448 - Looks more scummy that joke concerning this too.

@Heart - Why did you decide to say you have an investigating role and request a mass claim without others agreeing?
It does look more like hasty town...

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Heart shouldn't have claimed there and neither been forced into it.
The way everyone jumped on the "lets lynch today" comment strongly tells me that Heart is going to be town.
I'm still going with McMenno as town

sgz is probably saying town for credit, but who really knows at this point.

I suggest we go with the no lynch now, give back any results tomorrow and work it from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Tomorrow I suggest we claim in the order of

sgz
me
Leo
Gamma
McMenno
Heart

Then after role claims, in the same order state all night actions and results.
(Take out whoever dies)

Everyone agreed with this for tomorrow?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

As long as Heart is going last on both sections, that's all I care about.
I don't think Heart is scum here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm a non consecutive watcher
Night 1 my other body watched McMenno with no one visiting
Night 3 I watched heart with no one visiting...
So Heart wasn't blocked but got a no result.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sgz seems legit here.

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@1SVT: why did you change from thinking Heartache was scum to thinking Heartache was town in #486?

I was baiting the night visit onto heart.
Pushing for heart to be town I would have expected more scum actions there, however as said no one visited.

This is why I wanted people to claim heir roles then claim their actions after.
You catch scum out a lot more that way.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

currently on a cfj/heartache scumteam

This.really it should be a 1 v 1 against me and heart anyway right?
Heart claims no result meaning Roleblocker in some way. I am saying that only I visited so either I am confirmed Roleblockerror or heart is lying.

CoJ just seems to be focusing on me as the role blocker meaning that he believes I am flipping scum in this.
Trying to save the buddy and all.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I guess that's plausible. I'm not at my PC to look but did anyone ever target Leo?

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@1SVT: If you're scum, you almost certainly have an unclaimed blocking-like role (unless Heartache is your buddy). There are plenty of scenarios where you aren't scum at all, though.

Didn't you have a question to go with this worthless comment?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So we have either heart or leo as confirmed scum then.

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Lol are people really trying to push me as scum considering I called out heartless not being Roleblocked?

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@1SVT: What were your reads day 4? In particular, did you draw any conclusions from the Heartache flip overnight? What are your reads now, and why?

Yeah, you're scum.
McMenno isn't flipping scum and neither is Sgz.
POE only suggests you.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Well, I'm here so I'm proven town, right?

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So my reason for thinking McMenno is town is from previous experience with him.
I'm not looking to rush the day but sgz is also confirmed town here considering you either lied or you jailed him.

So we have a claimed VT and a claimed Jailor.
Give me a good reason to vote McMenno over you.

We know that Leo was roleblocked night 2, so Jailor would suggest this as well for me.
Again, POE just points to you, Call.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Once 1SVT replaced in, there was an abrupt reversal of opinion on the Heartache slot in #488 (claimed to have been a gambit in #640; I can see the merits of trying to draw the kill onto the player you're watching, but Heartache wasn't exactly a likely kill target even with the endorsement…) Also, 1SVT seems to have hardly contributed late day 3 / early day 4. Incidentally, I didn't get a chance to reply to #655 because the thread had been locked by the time I got online, but #654 was meant to be a reply to #641, rather than a question.

This is one thing that worries me with you.
You started to throw shade on me instantly and using my opinion on Heart as the main focus, considering I'm the one who called them out for not being role blocked.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

1SVT + Heartache: I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work, given that it would explain all the contradictory investigative data, although it would require a nightkill on Sgz13 (or a no-action gambit) N2;
1SVT + McMenno: This situation seems most likely if 1SVT is a rolestopper. He could have rolestopped his buddy McMenno N1, Heartache N2, Leonshade N3. Again, this requires an nightkill on Sgz13, but there's a plausible explanation in this case: nothing in this scenario confirms that McMenno is vanilla (he didn't act N2 but could have had an N1, odd-night, or non-consecutive modifier), and McMenno could therefore have somehow determined Sgz13's role night 1, which would make him a high kill priority.
1SVT + Sgz13: Again, if 1SVT is blocking night actions, there don't seem to be any problems here (this works with roleblocker, rolestopper, or jailkeeper). This scenario is particularly plausible because it's trivial to explain the missing kills in this one.
1SVT + Leonshade: This is very similar to the 1SVT + McMenno case, although like in the previous case, 1SVT can have any blocking role and it still works.

Like here, you are instantly trying to push me as the role blocker against Heart.
It's a physiological comment one of these to get people to believe your side.
You also try to pin both me and McMenno as scum here more than others (apart from me and Leo). You give a small reason to me and heart, but kind of right it off quickly.

Heartache + McMenno: This works fine if McMenno blocked Leonshade's night action N2. We only have Heartache's word that McMenno wasn't responsible for that. Again, it'd need Sgz13 to be the nightkill.
Heartache + Sgz13: I can't see a sensible way to make this work; if Heartache were Ascetic (to block Leonshade's N2 action) it would also have blocked 1SVT's N3 action. I guess you can make it work if both scum players have some sort of roleblocking/rolestopping role (Heartache blocking my action N2, Sgz13 blocking Leonshade's action N2, and 1SVT being the kill target), but that seems fairly unlikely.
Heartache + Leonshade: Straightforwardly works, because most of the investigative results can be lies.

The way you word these are you trying to draw focus away from Heart. "it'd need Sgz13 to be the nightkill." "but that seems fairly unlikely."
Looks strongly that you were trying to protect your buddy here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Town Heartache may not mean scum Tere, it just means it's something to consider as Tere was rather inconsiderate in that push.

If there is a Heartache townflip I may advocate powerlynching Tere.

It feels like a scummy push because of the opportunistic feel.

Tere ignored the fact she stated she would be gone and decided to push her on the fact she was gone. Reeks of opportunism to me.

These are Gamma protecting Heart

Half assed reads list because I don't care to actually reread, town to scum:
Leon
McMenno
1SVT
Heartache
Sgz13
Don't expect much from me today.

Has Heart as 2nd top scum read, but nothing towards heart, and even pushing Leo for a "scum slip" over heart (Leo was still top town read though?)

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It's a Gamma/Leon or

Gamma/Heart team

. You'll all see it once I am hammered.

This

So this was spot on then.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Then today, McMenno's been refusing to engage

That's town McMenno though.

Why did you jail sgz instead of Leo knowing that Leo could get us a result?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Oh wait, ignore that question, it would have stopped him.
But yeah, why sgz? He was pretty town read end of yesterday.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

VOTE: CFJ

I agree that I would have been the night kill night 3 and even probably night 4.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Well thanks for trying Call.
I think if you pushed more towards lynching Heart then I would have sided with you more this day, I've only seen you in some games, but you don't seem like the player to throw a team mate under the bus.