Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

podoboq
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Post Post #2900  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:15 am

Official Vote Count 4.03
LynchingWith 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Dierfire (1): boring

Not Voting (6): Dierfire, implosion, nn30, Zoronos, Prism, BlackVoid


V/LA: boring

Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-27 11:30:00)
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"

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Post Post #2901  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:30 am

@BlackVoid - why were you following the game? I assume you know podo? Don't answer this if it's inappropriate, just curious. Whatever the reason, I'm glad you're here.

Game related - I've yet to be sold on arguments that Boring is scum. Boring's treatment of LUV on both D1 and D2 suggest town or scum who plan busses before they're necessary. I see what you're saying regarding her posts being manipulative, but until someone convinces me of why bussing LUV from so early on is a good scum play I'm going to continue hitting this road block. Help me out here.

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Post Post #2902  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:35 am

In post 2899, BlackVoid wrote:While it's technically possible Zoronos is scum, I don't think his play around LUV looked like he was cc'ing a partner. For one, he did it way too quick instead of checking to see if town cc's him first. I don't find him scummy either way so I'll safely eliminate him from suspicion along with Implosion. That leaves me with four players: Boring, Prism, nn30, and Dierfire.


I got a slight scum ping on Zoronos today. While it absolutely could have happened by accident, Zoronos' jailings have all been on townies. Grendel and GE are townies and I know my own alignment - which means (from my perspective - I know you're scum reading me but bear with me) Zoro has jailed three townies.

Beyond that, the fact that his counter claim of LUV happened so quickly could suggest it was planned in scum chat.

I don't feel strongly enough about this to consider pushing Zoro today, and basically everything else he's done has felt towny, but it is worth considering.

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Post Post #2903  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:46 am

I don't know the mod. I was just casually following. No particular reason.

Implosion did a really good job explaining why Boring's play around LUV doesn't preclude them from being partners. That aside, LUV was an early wagon, he wasn't widely townread. It looked like sooner or later, he was going to take the fall. He was also a goon. Bussing a little before you need to is actually optimal strategy for a bus because that's when you get maximum cred. Not all scum are going to sit by voting townies until their partner is nearly lynched and then bus at the last moment.

Boring herself was scumread enough to have an L-2 wagon on her D1. When multiple scum are under pressure or in people's process-of-elimination lists, it can be very hard to stop themselves from being boxed out and lynched one by one. To do well in a situation like that, it isn't enough to fly below the radar, you have to be on people's townlists. If your own play can't achieve that, bussing is the last resort.

On Zoronos, even if they planned it, they wouldn't want to do it quickly. What if there was an actual town doc or town jailkeeper? Those aren't exactly uncommon roles. It would have been a disaster.

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Post Post #2904  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:16 pm

In post 2903, BlackVoid wrote:I don't know the mod. I was just casually following. No particular reason.

Implosion did a really good job explaining why Boring's play around LUV doesn't preclude them from being partners. That aside, LUV was an early wagon, he wasn't widely townread. It looked like sooner or later, he was going to take the fall. He was also a goon. Bussing a little before you need to is actually optimal strategy for a bus because that's when you get maximum cred. Not all scum are going to sit by voting townies until their partner is nearly lynched and then bus at the last moment.

Boring herself was scumread enough to have an L-2 wagon on her D1. When multiple scum are under pressure or in people's process-of-elimination lists, it can be very hard to stop themselves from being boxed out and lynched one by one. To do well in a situation like that, it isn't enough to fly below the radar, you have to be on people's townlists. If your own play can't achieve that, bussing is the last resort.

On Zoronos, even if they planned it, they wouldn't want to do it quickly. What if there was an actual town doc or town jailkeeper? Those aren't exactly uncommon roles. It would have been a disaster.


Both good points. Thank you for the analysis.

As for Boring scum - I can see it now.
As for Zoronos claim - you're right. Choosing the role to counterclaim (jailkeeper) would be a risk that could backfire. Your reasoning is sound.

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Post Post #2905  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:07 pm

@nn30
In post 2851, nn30 wrote:@Dierfire - I want the in-depth version of the defense you should have given yesterday. Specifically my points on you contained in 2697, 2702, and 2710.


All right, you asked for it!

Spoiler: Setting the Stage
I think that relevant points here will be answered later, I'm just quoting the initial conversation to be thorough.
In post 2697, nn30 wrote:Hmm...

I ISO'd Dierfire to take a look at who he has voted for, and when. I found that, when only considering who he votes for (and ignoring his thoughts about the game), he's very conservative. I found exactly one instance of him putting a vote somewhere which was an unpopular opinion - and it's a pretty damning 'one and only' instance as well.

Aside from RVS, he was:

4th to join a wagon on PP (post 351). At the time of his vote, Penguin was the leading vote with 3 votes compared to the 2 of Zoronos and Gamma Emerald.
4th to join the Eager wagon (post 1297). At the time of this vote, Boring was the leading wagon with 4 votes and Dier's vote tied the wagons.
3rd to join the Gamma Emerald wagon (post 1662). At the time of this vote, LUV and Gamma each had 2 votes. Dier's vote puts Gamma 1 vote above LUV.
3rd to join the Grendel wagon (post 2277). At the time of this vote, I was tied for leading wagon at 2 votes. Dier's vote puts Grendel in the lead with 3.

In fact, the only time he stuck his neck out was when he voted for Boring in post 2070 (I'm defining 'sticking one's neck out' as doing something away from town consensus.) At this time LUV had 5 votes compared to the next highest wagon of Penguin Power with 2 votes. His vote put boring from 0 to 1 votes.

Here's the full post of this instance:

---Dier snips spoiler to avoid nested spoiler tags---
---The original spoiler was a full quote of my followed by the comment below---

Some of the town have pointed out that it's textbook scum play to say 'I scum read my partner for these reasons, but here's why I'm voting elsewhere.'
---End Snip---

For the moment, I'm actually more interested than a Dier lynch than a Grendel lynch.

VOTE: Dierfire

If he flips scum I'm going to need to reprocess my current reads because it means I'm making some incorrect assumptions.


In post 2700, Dierfire wrote:@nn30
I've three comments about your analysis of my voting patterns.
First, I will argue that voting for a leading wagon (adding the fourth vote to PenguinPower when he was already leading with three votes), voting for a tied wagon (adding a third vote to Gamma Emerald when he was tied with Lil Uzi Vert with two votes, adding a third vote to Grendel when he was tied with you with two votes), and voting to bring a wagon to a tie (adding a fourth vote to eagerSnake to tie boring) are three different patterns. The second one in particular is almost the opposite of voting for a consensus candidate.
Second, I will argue that I am always diligent about giving reasons for my votes so that they carry more information than just the position on the wagon. Do you have any comment about the reasons that I gave for my votes?
Third, I am wondering why the vote on boring seems incriminating to you.


In post 2702, nn30 wrote:@Dier - I apologize for not making this clear in my original post. This is my fault.

The pattern I noticed was a lack of something - the willingness to start wagons on new people. It indicates that you are adding steam to where town is already heading, but unwilling to lead it in a new direction. This pattern is more likely to come from scum (who are incentivized to remain under the radar) than town.

The vote on Boring is scummy - not because it is on Boring (I would feel how I do regardless of who you voted for) - but because it wasn't on LUV and came at a time that indicates you could have been attempting to distract from the LUV wagon.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, you expressed reasons for scum reading LUV but never found yourself on his wagon.

As for the effort you put into your thoughts and posts, I see it and acknowledge it. If you're town I appreciate it even. However, if I'm under the assumption that you are scum (which I am right now) your votes mean monumentally more than your words.


If I had to narrow my vote on boring down to a single reason, it would be that I found it unlikely that Mafia players would vote for Shadow_step rather than eagerSnake after both claims (which made Lil Uzi Vert less suspicious, you less suspicious, and boring more suspicious by virtue of the zero-sum nature of POE and your status as the only unconfirmed vote on her wagon).
I don't have an answer for the rest of this; it is true that I was suspicious of Lil Uzi Vert but did not vote for him, and I understand why that would seem suspicious after his flip.

In post 2710, nn30 wrote:I'm focusing on the posts which encompass your not voting for LUV. I'd like an explanation from you regarding them.


I'll answer each in the spoiler. (There may be some formatting difficulties ahead!)

Spoiler:
In post 2070, Dierfire wrote:1)I've read through both PenguinPower and Lil Uzi Vert again. I don't find the depth of analysis that I find in other players (Prism, Zoronos, Grendel). In general I'd characterize this as not making effort to solve the game, which is suspicious.
2)I suppose that, if I trusted my reads on Prism, Zoronos, and Grendel, I'd start lynching by POE and drop a hammer on Lil Uzi Vert, but I'm reluctant to do so for two reasons.
First, the wagon on Shadow_step after the claim yesterday does not strike me as the sort of place to find a high density of Mafia players (it would have been far easier to vote for eagerSnake). This means that Lil Uzi Vert (and nn30) should be less suspicious than the other players I'm having difficulty reading (boring, PenguinPower). As a parallel to that, if nn30 is less suspicious, it becomes difficult to see why no suspicious players are voting for boring in the quoted VC.
Second, I don't really trust my reads on Prism, Zoronos, and Grendel. I have reasons to read each as Town but I'm simply finding it too good to be true that I've narrowed the Mafia players down so much.

In post 1150, podoboq wrote:
Official Vote Count 1.26
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (5): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion, Gamma Emerald, nn30
eagerSnake (4): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower, Grendel
PenguinPower (1): Dierfire
Shadow_step (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (2): Zoronos, Prism


V/LA: none

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)


My vote is for boring. I haven't seen many good reasons to read her as Mafia, but I've seen none to read her as Town and I think that the VC shows, at a minimum, Mafia players avoiding her wagon.

VOTE: boring


1) You give a reason to scum read LUV
2) You explain why you aren't voting him


These are both true.

Spoiler:
In post 2194, Dierfire wrote:I believe the claim from Zoronos with a fair degree of certainty (it makes him at least as likely to be Town as Shadow_step).
1)I disbelieve the claim from Lil Uzi Vert for a few reasons. First, as Zoronos becomes more likely to be Town, my confidence in POE from earlier increases, which makes Lil Uzi Vert more likely to be Mafia at baseline. Second, the vote for Zoronos makes more sense from a Mafia player who claimed Doctor than from an actual Town Doctor (the latter has little reason to suspect that a Mafia player wants him lynched immediately rather than killed by Night, particularly at the cost of countering the claim).
2)I could think of two potential reasons to leave Lil Uzi Vert alive. First, if if Lil Uzi Vert is actually a Town Doctor, it would potentially allow Gamma Emerald another action. However, I'm inclined to think that the combination of Doctor and Cop, besides being rare, would likely have a Mafia role to counter this interaction. Therefore I think that this is not a good reason to leave Lil Uzi Vert alive. It does open one other long shot; if we lynch a player who flips with a role like Mafia Strongman or Mafia Roleblocker, the Doctor claim would be much more believable.


1) You don't believe the claim from LUV.
2) You present a reason for leaving him alive anyway.


The first is true. The second is not quite true; the next two sentences discuss why I didn't believe that this was a good reason to leave him alive. I was getting ready to lynch Lil Uzi Vert at the time of this post, but I wanted to give him one more chance to make a good case on someone else (not Zoronos).

I'm combining the next quote because it's related.

In post 2197, Dierfire wrote:@Lil Uzi Vert
Your vote for Zoronos is fairly bad. I could perhaps be persuaded that it's wise to defer a decision on your lynch today, but I'd need a good lynch option and Zoronos is not that.


Again, you present a reason to not like LUV, yet you don't vote him.


This was the aforementioned "one more chance to make a good case" post.

I'm combining the next part of the quote here as well because a separate spoiler feels wasteful.

Penguin hammered shortly after this. However, given how you felt about him leading up to this it's strange that you never hopped onto his wagon. The 'I scum read LUV but let's not vote him and here's why' is definitely more than a little hinky feeling.


I'm combining all the rest into a single spoiler.

Spoiler: Comparison of the approaches to eagerSnake and Lil Uzi Vert
Let's compare your treatment of LUV to your treatment of Eager.

In post 1297, Dierfire wrote:All right, I've caught up.

I am virtually certain that Shadow_step has the Ascetic modifier, regardless of alignment (he was clearly setting up to counter the claim as soon as eagerSnake made it), and very confident that Shadow_step is Town (Mafia has low incentive to counter the claim). With eagerSnake, I was half expecting him to withdraw the claim; the fact that he hasn't rules out some Town plays (Bulletproof or Miller trying to draw the kill were my first thoughts, I also thought of Wary but I don't know if that's common on this site because I can't find it in the Wiki--certainly it's not Normal). It also weighs against some Mafia plays (I agree with the idea that a Mafia Ascetic role is powerful and probably unlikely to claim early without withdrawing the claim later, so I'd find a Mafia Goon more likely).

A few points since the claim make me suspicious of eagerSnake. First, and most obviously, eagerSnake actively resisted attempts by Zoronos ( and others) and nn30 () to provide content that would help us judge his alignment independently of the Ascetic claim. This seems consistent with a Mafia player in significant danger of being lynched and trying to avoid giving associative information (discussion of possible self-vote in is also consistent with that thought process). The vote on implosion in is also strange given that boring is the larger wagon and was the player eagerSnake was most confidently reading as Mafia (I don't see any change from ). Of course, I think that the reasons to vote for boring didn't hold much water in the first place (next post post after next), which is also suspicious (I'm not buying that eagerSnake was simply too uncertain to make a meaningful case--in that event, he should have been working at improving his reads rather than repetitively insisting that he was Town).

UNVOTE: PenguinPower
VOTE: eagerSnake

I want a full claim from eagerSnake.

I saw someone else ask this and get the "fishing" dodge, so to be clear: I am inclined to lynch eagerSnake unless he has some additional reason that we should leave him alive.


There's a lot more confidence in your read on Eager here as well as 0 credence given to Eager's theory that both he and Shadow were town.

In post 1516, Dierfire wrote:I'm ready for a hammer.

You even ask for a hammer.

Comparing your ambivalence towards LUV to your confidence in lynching Eager, and I'm just more convinced of my scum theory on you. Your behavior betrays hidden knowledge. Granted, I wasn't on the LUV wagon myself - I think I was a little snowed by him town reading me. So it's possible that you're a townie who was just more sure of Eager than of LUV. At the moment, I'm not inclined to believe that.

I look forward to your response to these things.


I'll make my response in two points.
First, I had no reason to read eagerSnake as Town and some reasons to read eagerSnake as Mafia (as I outlined when I made my vote). I had similar reasons to read Lil Uzi Vert as Mafia (as I outlined when I voted for boring), but I also had at least one reason to read Lil Uzi Vert as Town (I found the vote for Shadow_step unlikely to come from a Mafia player after both claims). This was the source of my ambivalence.
Second, I'll point out that I did somewhat consider the theory that eagerSnake and Shadow_step were both Town. I asked for a full claim from eagerSnake because I'd be more inclined to believe two Ascetic modifiers on different roles. Of course, when eagerSnake confirmed that his claim was a role with purely negative utility in (and continued to avoid giving us helpful reads in ), I was ready for a hammer.

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Post Post #2906  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:07 pm

The analysis by Shadow_step in seems solid to me; nn30 would be most likely to make the kill if boring is Mafia.

So what do we do with that?

Well, a team of boring and Grendel was the last option that I had to not revise my POE, so I'll have to read Shadow_step, nn30, and Prism again, but I'm leaning toward offering the suicide pact anyway. I don't see many games in which boring is Town and there are two Mafia players in that set of three.

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Post Post #2907  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:10 pm

This most recent conflict between Shadow_step and Prism makes them unlikely to be partners, too.

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Post Post #2908  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:17 pm

In post 2906, Dierfire wrote:The analysis by Shadow_step in seems solid to me; nn30 would be most likely to make the kill if boring is Mafia.

So what do we do with that?

Well, a team of boring and Grendel was the last option that I had to not revise my POE, so I'll have to read Shadow_step, nn30, and Prism again, but I'm leaning toward offering the suicide pact anyway. I don't see many games in which boring is Town and there are two Mafia players in that set of three.

@Dier - thank you for responding to my case.

In post 2906, Dierfire wrote:The analysis by Shadow_step in seems solid to me; nn30 would be most likely to make the kill if boring is Mafia.

So what do we do with that?

p-edit - agreed on prism/shadow unlikely scum team.

Well, a team of boring and Grendel was the last option that I had to not revise my POE, so I'll have to read Shadow_step, nn30, and Prism again, but I'm leaning toward offering the suicide pact anyway. I don't see many games in which boring is Town and there are two Mafia players in that set of three.



In this suicide pact, who do we lynch today?

If boring flips red, what does that mean for your alignment (if anything)?

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Post Post #2909  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:17 pm

@Dier - agreed on the shadow / prism unlikely team.

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Post Post #2910  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:20 pm

In post 950, podoboq wrote:
Official Vote Count 1.20
LynchingWith 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

boring (4): eagerSnake, MariaR, implosion, Gamma Emerald
eagerSnake (3): Shadow_step, boring, PenguinPower
Shadow_step (2): nn30, Lil Uzi Vert
PenguinPower (2): Dierfire, Grendel
implosion (1): Prism

Not Voting (1): Zoronos


V/LA: Gamma Emerald

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-18 15:22:00)


I'm going to go ahead and discount the possibility of nn30 and Shadow_step being partners as well--in what world would it make sense for a Mafia player to counter a claim and then both Mafia partners bus? The point of countering the claim would presumably be to get the Town player lynched!

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Post Post #2911  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:23 pm

@nn30
In post 2908, nn30 wrote:In this suicide pact, who do we lynch today?

If boring flips red, what does that mean for your alignment (if anything)?


The point of the suicide pact is that the lynch order doesn't matter (that is, if I'm sufficiently confident that boring is Mafia that I offer to lose to the game if boring is Town, then I'm also sufficiently confident that I can be lynched before seeing boring flip).
Strictly speaking I'd always prefer to have boring lynched first since I know that I'm Town, though.

I'm Town no matter what boring flips! I don't think that I'd be cleared if boring flips Mafia though, if that's what you're asking.

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Post Post #2912  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:28 pm

@Dier - got it. Thank you.

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Post Post #2913  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:29 pm

If the scum team is Boring / x, who do you think the other person is if not you?

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Post Post #2914  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:33 pm

That's a good question but not one that I can answer right now.
I'm working on ruling out all teams that don't include boring (currently the only remaining team to rule out is Prism and you). Once I've finished with that, I'll decide whether to offer the suicide pact and then, if we're all agreed to lynch either boring or me, I'll work on hammering out a likely partner.

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Post Post #2915  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:34 pm

For the record, Dier's defense felt a lot like 'yeah, a lot of that is accurate and kind of looks bad. Here's an alternate explanation for everything that I have an alternate explanation for.'

As a result, I'm dialing back my scum read on him.

I'd like to lynch Boring and then discuss options after her flip.

P-edit: Okay! Thanks Dier.

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Post Post #2916  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:45 pm

My first pass didn't find anything specific that rules out Prism and nn30 as partners, but I feel that each independently is less likely to be partners with Lil Uzi Vert than boring is.

I've already mentioned why I think that interactions between Prism and Lil Uzi Vert make Prism likely to be Town.
I'm also considering again and I continue to find it unlikely that nn30 and Lil Uzi Vert would both be Mafia and would vote for Shadow_step if he is Town, particularly if that means that two leading wagons are on Town players (including eagerSnake, a far easier vote for claim-related reasons). It's a weird thing for Lil Uzi Vert to do in any case, so I'll think about it more, but I'm finding it far more likely that boring is Mafia here.

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Post Post #2917  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:16 pm

VOTE: boring

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Post Post #2918  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:02 pm

I feel like something I think I know must be wrong. More specifically, someone I think is town must be scum, which suggests I need to rethink most of the game state.
I have DF still hovering in my ??? Bucket, but everyone else is in some version of my town list, and that's just not possible.
The end of day swap to Grendel from DF, followed by him flipping green feels like it should be telling me something specific, but I think I need to reread that segment before I jump to conclusions off of it?

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Post Post #2919  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:02 pm

Damn iPad. That shouldn't have been a question.

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Post Post #2920  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:04 pm

In post 2899, BlackVoid wrote:As far as reads go, I spent most of the time I was spectating from D1 onwards thinking that Boring, Prism, and LUV were the scumteam because I was townreading everyone else. I was really sad to see Eagersnake lynched because despite being cc'd, he was really, really obvtown. Implosion was too and the cop investigation on him wasn't the best idea in my opinion.
Can you explain this more?

I understand EagerSnake, but calling Implosion obviously town from minute 1 is a real stretch. I realize I was tunneling at times but the only reasons I saw to townread him Day 1 were very small.

Additionally, townreading Grendel, Implosion, Gamma, PenguinPower, Zoronos, MariaR, nn30, and Dierfire, all on Day 1, is questionable to me.

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Post Post #2921  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:33 pm

Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.

Spoiler: Notes
STRONG TOWN
Shadow_step - Counter-claiming the ascetic modifier is so, so town I'm willing to write him off as conf-town. The way he did it was incredibly town as well.
Implosion - #131 is an astute observation. But is it really townish? Scratch that. He caught Penguin's towntell which is the same thing I did and his thoughts matching mine is awesome.
eagerSnake - Ascetic claim, slight towntell because it allows actions to not be wasted on him. Townread on nn30 after looking through his meta, checked if he was an alt. #109: like the complexity here. Reads Zor town, Boring scum, Shadow_step scum. All seem like okay reads. No issues with any of them.
PenguinPower - #78: Reaction to LUV's entrance was the same as mine. Pressing LUV, the passing comment about GE defending LUV. #219: Endgame thing is not scum. Calls out both nn30 and LUV. Solid.
Zoronos - #97: Picked up on the same thing about Grendel that I liked. Grendel turn-around seemed like he was actually scumhunting. Could be coaching LUV. Too abrasive and involved in scumhunting to be scum. The coaching tell may not be relevant since he scumhunts that way and did it to Eager as well.
Dierfire - Early townreads on Implosion, nn30, and Grendel are fairly solid. Overall stances and questioning make a ton of sense. Pretty confident in a town read here.
Gamma Emerald
nn30 - Self-vote + RQS response slightly scummy. Checking Eager's meta seems town but timeline seems off. Ask about this. Why PRs? But odd for scum to ask in thread. No opinions about RVS? Suspects Grendel due to response to Implosion, questions why Zoronos is town, then agrees with Zoronos to vote Implosion. Then agrees on Grendel-town. Wierd. Too much agreeing, stances change conveniently. Not Boring's partner. The case isn't bad at all.

LEANING TOWN
MariaR - Talked sense during Eager/Shadow cc, latched onto Boring pretty well. But not 100% on it, re-evaluate later.
Grendel - Biggest reason is his argument made me second-guess myself. His suspicion of Eagle makes sense as does his earlier townread. Don't lynch early but be very wary of this read. Too conscious about whether his reads lined up. Could be boring partner. It seemed like he was distancing but never joins the wagon + how did he catch Eager's manipulation but missed Boring's? Paranoia of Dier seems townie (wants him to be town) after Dier townreads him. The over-focus on him was off-putting but why? Think more on this if Boring is scum.

NULL
Lil Uzi Vert

SCUM
boring - Highly manipulative push on Eager, egging on the cc while calling Shadow obvtown reads like she knew he'll be attacked tomorrow anyways. CW to town-Eagle. Wagon disappears.
Prism - Bad push on implosion. Questions Boring in his first post but waffles between implosion and Eager as the final choices.


There's nothing in Gamma and LUV's sections because I didn't have a read on them until later in the game and I just didn't bother to type them in. LUV was mostly gut from early game and Gamma was null until he voted Boring over Eager which I saw as a towntell because I was scumreading Boring and townreading Eager pretty hard. Some reads switched around but I stopped updating when I felt that I figured out the scumteam through POE.

BlackVoid
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Joined: September 15, 2016
Pronoun: He

Post Post #2922  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:41 pm

By the way, Implosion was obvious town from day one. He started slightly towntelling as early as the point where he said he had "lots of interesting things to say" and then continued being even more town with his D1 case on Boring, and trying to talk sense into my predecessor when he and Eager had their cc battle. I was rather annoyed to see everyone dismissing those points, even more so when Shadow_Step opened D2 by saying that the nightkill was meant to frame Boring and people started assuming Implosion could only be right because he was scum and knew both cc's were town. And I wasn't even playing the game.

Because the fact is, both Eager AND Shadow were incredibly town on D1. I simply don't understand why people were both unable to see that and then act as if someone who pointed this out has to have insider information. Oh, and off of memory, there was this pretty cool towntell that I saw Penguin hit when he told Grendel something like "what's going to happen at endgame?" and I thought that was town. Implosion was the only one who saw it while everyone else just kept pressuring him.

nn30
Mafia Scum
 
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Joined: August 15, 2016

Post Post #2923  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:51 pm

@Blackvoid - one question, why am I strong town in your stream of consciousness list? The note you have about me contradicts that. If I were to guess based on the note I'd put me at a scum lean.

What gives?

Also, can you qualify your prism scum read with some post D1 stuff? I've had him strongly town for a while - I'd like to know why this contradicts what I think.

implosion
Polymath

 
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Joined: September 09, 2010
Location: zoraster's wine cellar
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Post Post #2924  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:27 am

Finally people speaking my language...

I justified nn-town in .

VOTE: boring

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