Mini Normal #1838 - Game Over

podoboq
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Post Post #2925  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:00 am

Official Vote Count 4.04
LynchingWith 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

boring (2): nn30, implosion
Dierfire (1): boring

Not Voting (4): Dierfire, Zoronos, Prism, BlackVoid


V/LA: boring

Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-27 11:30:00)
eagerSnake - "Fwiw mod steals pagetops while driving. Still think they wouldn't put in 2 people with ascetic?"

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Post Post #2926  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Implosion - Do you see Boring / DF as the team, or is it boring / NN in your estimation?

Basically, you're already telling me one of my town reads is wrong. Are you saying both of them are wrong?

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Post Post #2927  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Alright, that basically removes any doubt I had about the Shadow slot. Black gave that list in 30 mins, there's no way he faked it. Those reads were legit and I doubt it was convenient to keep the same reads as scum. Maybe he could have gone back and revised just one/two but there's no way the whole thing is fake.

I feel bad for DF since I literally have barely read anything he's said and basically haven't even given him a chance, but at this point I really don't think I need to. If boring flips town then I'll be forced to as that means I'm wrong on one of Zoro/nn but I'll cross that bridge if we get there.

VOTE: boring

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Post Post #2928  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:12 pm

@Dier - what are your thoughts on the suicide pact at this moment?

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Post Post #2929  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:19 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suicide pacting, if one is town (or even both) that means I can no longer afford to get lynched. I have no intention of getting lynched, ever.

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Post Post #2930  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:59 pm

The only way Prism is scum is if he jumped out massively in front of the LUV bus. I rate that as 'very unlikely'. I mean, it is technically possible, but it's not something I'm actively considering.
Then again, that's basically my reasoning for Boring being town, so.

That said, I think Prism's play outside of the LUV train was also townier than average, so, I am very not inclined to go that route. Lynching Prism is a bad plan, imo.
I'm not sure why I'm wasiting words on this.
w/e.

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Post Post #2931  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:20 pm

Ftr, I think there was a miscommunication here. The suicide pact I'm referring to is Dier/Boring. It doesn't involve Prism.

Let's spitball here. If there's exactly two scum in Boring / Dier, gg. If there's zero scum in Boring / Dier, also gg.

I'm fairly certain the momentum points towards both of those people being lynched next. I'm not sure about order but probably Boring first.

I want to talk about the version of those events where the game continues on: the case where there's one scum and one town in that list. Who do we go after next?

My gut says it's Black Void. Here's why:

In post 2921, BlackVoid wrote:Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.


If you're reading a game and you don't have a role pm, you're a ghost with a town's perspective.

This quote suggests that Black Void's reading of the game changed when he received his role pm - suggesting he received a scum pm.

Thoughts?

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Post Post #2932  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:22 pm

In post 2923, nn30 wrote:@Blackvoid - one question, why am I strong town in your stream of consciousness list? The note you have about me contradicts that. If I were to guess based on the note I'd put me at a scum lean.

What gives?

Also, can you qualify your prism scum read with some post D1 stuff? I've had him strongly town for a while - I'd like to know why this contradicts what I think.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a fairly strong scumread on Boring and a very strong townread on Eagersnake so some of my day one reads were informed by that. When you made a case against Boring, and voted her over Eagersnake, I put you in the town category for that. It did outweigh most things you did D1.

On Prism, I'll just give you the stuff I remember. I didn't like his preference for lynching Eager over Boring. I didn't like his Implosion push. I'm not going to go into the nitty-gritty of every argument as I'm confident he's town now for that attempted replace out. There was also POE as most others did something I thought was town.

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Post Post #2933  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:25 pm

@BlackVoid - Assuming my assessment of town momentum is correct (the next two lynches are Dier / Boring) and that the game doesn't end via these lynches, where do you suggest we go next?

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Post Post #2934  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:27 pm

Here: Image

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Post Post #2935  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:28 pm

I'm not sure I'd vote you over Dier but I'd definitely vote you over Prism or Zoronos.

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Post Post #2936  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:43 pm

Why?

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Post Post #2937  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:46 pm

I thought I just said why a couple of times... if my predecessor did just nail the team (Boring/Prism), I don't think Prism's response as scum would be "you're so arrogant, I'm out." That goes against every principle of sportsmanship ever. I talked about why Zoronos counterclaiming so quickly points heavily against him being partnered with LUV and you agreed.

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Post Post #2938  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:50 pm

So PoE. Got it.

Thank you.

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Post Post #2939  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:50 pm

Unless you are asking I'm not sure whether I'd vote you over Dier. It's a tossup, really. I'm going to have read really closely to figure that out and I just want to get a confident scumflip out of the way before sitting down to re-read.

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Post Post #2940  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:51 pm

In post 2921, BlackVoid wrote:Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.


What was your intention when you said this?

Obviously I'm scum reading you for it - I'd like to hear your alternative explanation.

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Post Post #2941  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Just me being transparent that they shouldn't be a reason to read me as town. I'd prefer to pull my own weight as town. Why does it bother you? You don't think, if I were scum, I could have posted genuine town thoughts and not said anything and be townread for it?

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Post Post #2942  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:10 pm

It bothers me because it reads like your view of the game changed when you got a role pm.

I'm not understanding your last sentence. Please rephrase and ask again.

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Post Post #2943  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:24 pm

It's fairly common for a player who is following a game they replace into, to have thoughts about the game before replacing in. Regardless of what alignment they are, these can't be used to read them because either way, they come from a town perspective. If someone posts a lot of notes upon replacing in, whether or not they made those notes before or after replacing in is very relevant information which is why I offered it.

What I asked was: if I drew scum, why do you think I'd just post them and say "here's stuff I had before replacing in" instead of waiting a day or so, tweaking my notes, and posting them? Since most of them would have been town thoughts anyways, that would have gotten me townread

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Post Post #2944  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:44 pm

Ahh, got it.

If you drew scum:

1) There's no reason to believe you didn't tweak them
1.5) The fact that your read on Shadow_Step is the first to appear in your list could be coincidence, but could also indicate that you tweaked this read in particular (pure speculation here - I know that I'm getting into tin-foil hat territory here)
2) You don't even need to tweak them to get town cred by posting it
3) You saying 'don't town read me for this... but...' is just reverse psychology. Maybe you actually wanted to be town read for it?
4) This is a deception game - there's no reason to believe with 100% certainty that those notes were made entirely before subbing in.

Let me be clear here. While I'm responding to your line of questioning, these things aren't what I take issue with.

I need to choose to believe this explanation:

In post 2941, BlackVoid wrote:Just me being transparent that they shouldn't be a reason to read me as town.


For this line of thought:

In post 2921, BlackVoid wrote:Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.


Which I don't currently buy.


I'd also like to put this line of thought forward. It's more for the rest of town than for BlackVoid specifically. My scum reading Shadow_Step is absolutely not a path of least resistance position. I'm resisting the notion that the D1 gambit made by Shadow_Step absolutely could not have come from scum. The goal of such a high-risk high-reward play is to gain enough town cred to become conf!town, which Shadow step continually insisted he was despite other players not being in consensus on this. If I were scum, I would have had a much easier time pushing other people (Prism, for example).

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Post Post #2945  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:53 pm

On the subject of Shadow_step, I'm honestly surprised anyone could read that D1 play as scum. It's not just that he cc'd, it's that he went out of his way to get additional reads, to let Eagersnake play normally, and for people to react to him and finally revealed. But you are not the only one so I don't know if that's necessarily scummy.

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Post Post #2946  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:14 pm

Holy crap guys!

Okay first off, welcome to the game, Black Void! I really appreciate the instant improvement in the game's tone that occurred when you subbed in.

Unfortunately, a better tone doesn't change a slot's role-assignment.

In post 2927, Prism wrote:Alright, that basically removes any doubt I had about the Shadow slot. Black gave that list in 30 mins, there's no way he faked it. Those reads were legit and I doubt it was convenient to keep the same reads as scum. Maybe he could have gone back and revised just one/two but there's no way the whole thing is fake.

He could very well have made a couple easy tweaks to his "stream of consciousness". Regardless, how long would it take to type something like that up? 5 minutes, if you have an excuse not to edit. There's nothing original in there, either. His every post thus far is middle-of-the-road designed to appease our lovely conf. town.

In post 2931, nn30 wrote:My gut says it's Black Void. Here's why:

In post 2921, BlackVoid wrote:Sure, I can post the stream-of-consciousness notes I took in excel. Not sure how helpful it'll be to read me since I did them all before receiving my role PM but it'll help you see my reasoning.


If you're reading a game and you don't have a role pm, you're a ghost with a town's perspective.

This quote suggests that Black Void's reading of the game changed when he received his role pm - suggesting he received a scum pm.

Thoughts?

I makes me question why you're on my wagon with him if you think he has ulterior motives. Since it's clearly unlikely that I'm SvS with that slot, why not vote Dierfire? He's likely scum in either scenario (me or Blackvoid), and it gives you time to decide what to do next.

We need to have as many scum lynches as town in order to survive to the end (preferably more scum than town!), so we need to lynch the player that's in nearly everyone's bottom two by POE (i.e., DIERFIRE).

p-edit: I started writing this like an hour ago and got distracted. In the meantime, i was ninja'd by like 5 or so posts. Hopefully I haven't posted moot. I'm too pressed for time to read again. I'll try to be back tomorrow. Sorry.

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Post Post #2947  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm

@Boring - technically speaking, BlackVoid hasn't cast a vote for you yet.

That said I'm continuing to talk to him because I sense town moving towards a combination of Boring/Dier lynches. I'm not sure which of you is scum, but I know that if there isn't at least 1 scum among the two of you the game is basically over for town anyways.

I'm talking to BlackVoid under the assumption that Town keeps on trucking after the Dier/Boring lynches. If the scum team isn't you and Dier, I think it's one of you two and then BlackVoid. Hence my conversation.

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Post Post #2948  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:40 pm

In post 2946, boring wrote:He could very well have made a couple easy tweaks to his "stream of consciousness". Regardless, how long would it take to type something like that up? 5 minutes, if you have an excuse not to edit. There's nothing original in there, either. His every post thus far is middle-of-the-road designed to appease our lovely conf. town.
You're right in the sense that I undersold the chance of him making one or two tweaks-that doesn't take too much time. The whole thing, however, definitely wasn't made in 30 minutes. It cites specific posts and you can clearly see the trains of thought in motion for them.

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Post Post #2949  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:42 pm

In post 2948, Prism wrote:
In post 2946, boring wrote:He could very well have made a couple easy tweaks to his "stream of consciousness". Regardless, how long would it take to type something like that up? 5 minutes, if you have an excuse not to edit. There's nothing original in there, either. His every post thus far is middle-of-the-road designed to appease our lovely conf. town.
You're right in the sense that I undersold the chance of him making one or two tweaks-that doesn't take too much time. The whole thing, however, definitely wasn't made in 30 minutes. It cites specific posts and you can clearly see the trains of thought in motion for them.


Keep in mind he made the majority of those reads before he got a role pm.


Also, I want your opinion on my theoretical world where Boring/Dier are the next two to go. Who's do we lynch assuming the game doesn't end right then and there?

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