Micro 662: ArcAngel's Twin Trap Mafia (Ended)

[MisaTange]

/confirm

And also

VOTE: Tyler

Ain't he a youtuber

[MisaTange]

Interesting exchange

[MisaTange]

I'm actually reminded of the strategy that scum sometimes use where they vote their scumpartner as a means of distancing

[MisaTange]

I mean.

It may mean something but it may mean not; I recognize that LUV's/mine's vote can equally be, uhh, that.

[MisaTange]

okay then

it's a small, slightly unreliable scumtell

this scumtell kind of depends on yours/tb's flip and the reason why i'm not pursuing it any further (hence my RvS vote) is that i dont like scumhunting before flips, on page frickin one

[MisaTange]

that was poorly worded lol

i mean scumhunting before flips in application to that only particular tell

[MisaTange]

i just realized people from here scumread uncertainty

whelp

[MisaTange]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

>throwing shade
>admitted inthread that I reworded the post weirdly, allowing for misunderstandings which can happen. in a text-based game
>uh

[MisaTange]

I guess I don't understand how I am throwing shade.

Am I throwing shade on myself by realizing I used the wrong word choice in typing out my sentences???

[MisaTange]

Same feeling. Two people haven't checked in yet so let's see if they post tonight. Or tomorrow (realtime).

[MisaTange]

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Cause I feel like that was an opportunistic case by scum rather than town

Your argument falls flat when you realize that I wasn't scumleaning Pine/TB at all. Not from the beginning, not at the end of page one. If I had been scumleaning Pine/TB due to their RvS exchange, I would have voted for one of the two in my 15. You've made a PBPA of my current iso, but you haven't noted that my vote was on Tyler the

entire time before this post

... I.E: Someone who hasn't posted at all.

This post's vote is my first serious vote.

I repeat,

I never believed TB/Pine was scummy at all.

Not even a gut-scumlean. I never suspected Pine/TB due to 15. In fact, Pine is a gut-townread atm (due to 25, willingness to help a newbie, but I also recognize that can come from scum as well).

I only needed to point that out in the world (as in: I recognize that Pine/TB might be universally-townread in this game, which I'm okay about atm) that town finds TB/Pine to be scummy enough for a lynch, Pine/TB's RvS exchange might be some means of getting to their partner, especially if their partner shows sign of scummy behavior. It's future-evidence, if you will. It's nothing to pursue because if we applied that scumtell to right about now in three-page, just-out-of-RvS, we're doomed to fail, even with the basic questions of "Is this scum-intentioned? Is this town-intentioned?"

Which is why I sounded noncommittal before that post.

Me pointing out those two RvS votes were in no means a way to properly scumhunt.

How am I able to scumhunt when literally all of the events of this thread are literally:

• RvS > Pine suspecting me due to 15
  
• Pine suspecting me due to 15 > RvS
  
• RvS > SA suspecting me due to 15

If you're suspecting me just because I'm not scumhunting, then it's fair for me to suspect you because you're tunnelling.

The others have been just asking questions which is NAI, and Kop promised to post since yesterday but that is also NAI (especially as I'm still assuming that everyone's busy with Thanksgiving).

[MisaTange]

That line was to illustrate how much that case was BS. I know that's not the focus.

I also believe mafia isn't necessarily all about scumhunting and finding posts that are scummy, but being open to particular worlds. Yes, that person had legitimate, not-bussy reasons to lynch scum (on situations like Monzer's lynch on 1736 as well as Creeps's lynch in 1747, i.e. someone instigating and scumreading someone the entire day, using my own game experiences), but there's also the distinct possibility that scum hard-bussed their partner.

P-Edit: Also, keep in mind that Sleepless might be purposefully making a bad case to make your gut think that.

Sleepless Assassin: He had a case on me for an hour. He scumleaned me for 15 and no longer scumleaned me for 21, because I

Admitting you're wrong, backing up and re-evaluating, that's a Townish thing

???¿¿

[MisaTange]

Misa, why was it "interesting" then? and why bring up distancing if you didn't think that's what was going on?

You're not reading the second paragraph of 58 btw. The focus is the possibility. It's something to support a case with already scummy behavior. I'm tired of reiterating the same points over and over.

[MisaTange]

I don't think SA is tunneling, not sure if that wasn't clear. I recognize that was false equivalence and I said that to point out how bad that particular support was.

[MisaTange]

@Pine: If you think being defensive is a scumtell, then what about PRs? You can argue that a PR may "drop everything as town to defend yourself against an attack" because they believe that a PR shouldn't die so early; whether via nightkill or lynching.

[MisaTange]

If I'm not gonna convince you with 58, then I don't know what will, but I reiterate once more: If I wanted to pursue TB/Pine as an opportunistic ML, I would've switched my vote.

Also I'm voting on you because I completely don't understand your logic at all. To reiterate.

I'll keep that in mind for future posts.

[MisaTange]

Eh, don't believe that was OMGUS since that involves empty accusations imo.

Also I agree with Pine -- Those "defensiveness" posts come after Pine's (and yours) accusations.

[MisaTange]

...That implies that both of us are scum.

What makes you think it isn't TvS though?

[MisaTange]

TvS is Town vs Scum, if that isn't clear.

[MisaTange]

I think I dislike the wording of the post ("pro-lynching-anyone" implies you want to kill town), but I think I know what you're throwing at; pressure wagons, especially as I, personally, don't have any solid reads either and that is a good place to start.

[MisaTange]

Can we lynch Pine yet?

Not feeling either to be honest.

Who are you feeling, if not me/SA/Pine?

[MisaTange]

That was to LUV, btw. I hate phoneposting.

[MisaTange]

Nobody honestly, there is just not enough content right now to get anything substantial.

Hmm

What do you think of SA and I's exchange? Additionally, what do you think of Pine's "this may be tactical bussing" comment in 60?

Also, welcome Spade! Any current opinions?

[MisaTange]

Agreed @Arnold

Also:

Isn't doing something that has a lower than 50% chance (and because it has a lower than 50% chance) a fallacy?

(Also, also: I believe that Pine's case on me is more "I am milkshake's scumbuddy", which isn't a strong enough case for me to address imo)

[MisaTange]

Ah, sorry about the misunderstanding

Interesting uhh.

Say I am today's lynch. Who is scum then on the world I flip town?

P-Edit: The term I was looking for was "inductively weak", not fallacy. i.e. the concept that you don't lynch because its probability is less than 50%.

[MisaTange]

Don't confuse playstyle with scummy behavior, as much as I really disagree with milkshake's comment as well :p

[MisaTange]

Ah, sorry about the misunderstanding

Interesting uhh.

Say I am today's lynch. Who is scum then on the world I flip town?

P-Edit: The term I was looking for was "inductively weak", not fallacy. i.e. the concept that you don't random lynch because its probability is less than 50%.

can you ebwop 7 hours later bc i just realized just now that it needed clarification >_>

[MisaTange]

(Of course if we did no lynch we would have to do two no lynches! One no lynch is factually horrible. The wiki demonstrates why: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... rs,_Part_1 )

I think you just played yourself because the smaller games statistically favor even numbers if you take that article as word of God.

Even though I completely agree with Pine in 146.

[MisaTange]

Say I am today's lynch. Who is scum then on the world I flip town?

btw Pine I directed this to you

[MisaTange]

good, a pageget, so you extra will see it

[MisaTange]

I mean.

We can find collections of posts that are scum blending in as town, or ingenuine attempts to scumhunt... as well as there are pluses to starting a different bandwagon (townpoints).

...Thanks for making this game weirder...?

[MisaTange]

Any opinions, Vedith?

BTW, it should be on the table that, while I don't see the town motivation for what milkshake is doing, I don't see the scum motivation either.

[MisaTange]

VOTE: Kop

I realized if we kill Pine, this game might be even more stale.

Does that make him town though????

Or ah, scum for that matter.

[MisaTange]

Ah, hmm. I can see that, though I feel stronger about scum!Sleepless than anything.

Also, go ahead. Pretty much all of the top presences (me, Sleepless) has been called scum except for him.

[MisaTange]

@Pine: I mean.

You can easily interpret 60 as, assuming a Pine/SA scumteam "Oh, I see what they're doing, lemme actually verbalize what they're doing to disguise themselves as a means to scumhunt." A lot of your things are only discussing theory (25, 30 and 77) to make your iso seem bigger and contributing when you're not actually.

[MisaTange]

Fair enough.

SA still. I still feel strongly about 53 as a way of fabricating reasons.

[MisaTange]

Ugh, I was waiting for that, lol.

While it is a touch odd that Kop does not have any scumreads/scumleans, does he really have to explain his reads?

Especially

on page five i.e. that is considered to be early day one, on users that had less than eight posts at the time?!

[MisaTange]

I'm with Spade on this one, but I think everyone knew that already.

^^^^ (the first part, not the second part)

At least I understand milkshake's thought process; they lost me midway in this conversation

[MisaTange]

Is Kop still scum now that he's active @Arnold?

[MisaTange]

@milkshake: and yet no addressing of the fact that everyone has a chance of rolling scum, and I don't really get the point of Pine having an incorrect understanding of the game, you opting to discuss your suggestion of 'random lynch' post game implies that it's more of a matter of play style and doesn't need to be addressed

I kind of want to vote milkshake but I don't want to derphammer. Where's she at in votes to lynch?

[MisaTange]

Ehh, with 243, I'm kind of starting to think my issues with milkshake is more of "I will never truly understand milkshake's thought process on this", because FMPOV they're just joining bandwagons with little reasoning, although I recognize that they might be a "I don't really know what to do Day One" kind of player... I still highly with the point disagree that lynching just because it is statistically favorable (or unfavorable in this case, because it is 50% or below), but hey, I'm not a person to work with numbers and be overly obsessed with them.

Milkshake and Vedith are slight town

Also rereading milkshake's iso, I'm starting to think the people who bandwagoned them are scum, minus Vedith.

Hmm.

VOTE: Spade_Ace

[MisaTange]

@spade: Fair enough though. I think while I was writing that post, that milkshake was a bad lynch because I still stand my idea that while her actions are not town motivated, they're not necessarily scum motivated (the "yeah, but does that make her scum though?) -- besides the whole "scum coasting by" thing.

I think my mindset with sheeping other people is that I'm a bit anxious of deadline; as of this posting, we have a little over a day. Sleepless probably won't be lynched today, so I would rather have a vote on someone who will be lynched rather than no-lynching because town ran out of time. I skimmed Kop/Pine's iso and they're kind of ok?

@Arnold: I guess I worded that incorrectly -- "There's at least one scum in the milkshake wagon. (Minus Vedith of course)"

[MisaTange]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-12-08 06:46:00)

I know this game is only active in short bursts, we need to compromise on a lynch...

[MisaTange]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-12-08 06:46:00)

I know this game is only active in short bursts, but we need to compromise on a lynch...

minor ebwop

[MisaTange]

VOTE: Arnold

This will do

(I'll be sleeping after this)

[MisaTange]

Ugh, and there's lynch.

Totally not sure what to take of milkshake suddenly changing their PoV with their stance completely changing regarding day 1 lynching. And also not letting Arnold claim.

[MisaTange]

VOTE: Arnold

This will do

(I'll be sleeping after this)

This will do?

I prefer Sleepless but that vote was the stronger scumlean between the two wagons

@milkshake: Fair enough

Also

VOTE: Vedith

VOTE UP THE FAKE MOD

OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT

[MisaTange]

What makes you think the tangle isn't TvT though?

[MisaTange]

I know I'm town and I'm going to flip town though, I want to make sure that you aren't so tunneled in that interaction isn't TvT. Which you're not convincing me in that way.

[MisaTange]

BTW, I'm super curious to hear BTD's opinions on that interaction in particular.

[MisaTange]

The above post feels fencesitty.

Also would like to hear why milkshake did that (apparently voting based on a read), and again being like "nope, I was wrong".

[MisaTange]

Hmm.

I retract my earlier theory about the day one milkshake wagon being filled with scum and I feel strongly about some of the people in Arnold's wagon being scum.

People I wouldn't mind lynching at this point. Misa and Arnold. Considering there is no traction for Misa, am going with Arnold.

@Spade:

What happened to this thought process? This implies that you'll push for my lynch Day 2. Is Vedith's "baseless accusation" (to reiterate, I do not believe this) a much more important push than me?

Also I feel comfortable with a Kop lynch, but he's at L-2 atm and I feel uncomfortable putting someone at L-1 when barely 24 hours have passed.