LicketyQuickety's Mini Normal - 1847

[Secret Agent Jin]

Posting so i have this on my games list for easy access.

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: JoshZ

Reasoning: Josh is a male name, males grow beards, beards are made of hair, hair can be cut, a knife cuts, if you cut someone then you are a criminal, mafia members are criminals.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have a beard. but I am town

you must be scums for such implications

Woah Woah Woah, hold on there. If you have a beard then per the chart you = scum. The chart never lies.

[Secret Agent Jin]

That wording could have been better. It sounds more like the EwwEww Train

[Secret Agent Jin]

Well Big, i think that is bussing if i ever seen it. *Clears throat* Big is a term for general measurement, Small is also an approximate measurement, Small is a shirt size, a shirt is something you wear, you also wear a tuxedo, penguins look like they wear tuxedos. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE! I linked ThinkBig and PP, thats your scumteam.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think the mentality behind scumreading a no-lynch is that a no-lynch vote is harmful to town in a way. At least with a vote you have the chance to nail a scum but a no-lynch is basically giving the scum a free kill because all that comes from it is the end of a day phase. If the lynch flips town then you can at least draw information from it to further the game.

Wow, i over explained that, maybe i nees some sleep. I am too tired.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I am glad there is actual discussion, some games tend to trail off and lack discussion. Everyone gets a gold star for participation, some might be smaller than others but every star counts.

The only person that sticks out is Josh, i would like to see what other people that of his no-explanation votes (maybe RVS?) and his very lacking word post. I seen some people discuss this, i see what you are saying. I would like to see the others are thinking.

P.S. This is seperate from the Josh thing but in my experience i find that scum tend to have a lot of fence posts. They often write reads that are easily back tracked on which contain words like maybe, possibly, could be.

[Secret Agent Jin]

. They often write reads that are easily back tracked on which contain words like maybe, possibly, could be.

Well then prepare to SR me, because this is a lot of the way I play the game. I play in possibilities and likelihoods of those possibilities.

I will lay 10 possibilities on the table, all of which certainly CAN NOT be true, and weigh them all and want to talk about them all / hear what others have to say about them all, get reads from all of that and let that influence everything and then gauge what I think is most likely to be the case, always with the caveat in mind (and often in my ramblings) that "of course maybe not"

to me it is a healthy way to play, and then from there what you need to do is judge who is just throwing around shit to cause problems and confusion, and who is actually trying to solve the game and figure things out

I didnt mean that all players that use those words are scum, i meant that you see it more in scum than town. Its kind of like an "all scum wear yellow hats but all not all people that wear yellow hats are scum". You have to notice people that use fence words and keep an eye on them but they arent an automatic scum read.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Hey, PP and NN, pull back a little bit, you two are starting to get tunnel vision for each other. I personally think PP is reading into TB too much and that leaves three possibilities. 1) PP is town and over analyzing TB which is town or 2) PP is scum and trying hard for a TB lynch which is a crazy move as scum because when TB is lynched and flips town PP is next or 3) PP is town and TB is scum and PP is adamant that TB is gone today.

I personally think TB is town and just wanted Joshz out because of a bad play he made, you know policy lynch and all.

Can we pull back though and look at other people too? PP, what opinions do you have on people other than TB and NN? NN, What opinions do you have on people other than TB and PP?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Jin, what opinions do you have on people other than TB, NN, and PP

Well, you are the closest i have to town read with Pine coming right behind that then Garmr. 1-Shot is a null read for me as is a few others. There hasnt been enough posts from people (that includes myself) outside of TB, NN, PP, Pine, Garmr and yourself. Its hard for me to develop reads on people that dont post much.

What makes PP's push different enough from Pine's push that you'd suggest lining up PP next

Well to me there isnt much of a difference though both look at him in different ways. Pine is more analytical about it where PP just seems like he is pushing more against both NN and TB. Though i did have three different ways PP could be viewed, i think PP is null, l because i havent decides if he closer to town than scum.

@NN I dont know how i missed your readslist when i seemed to have taken in all the rest of the game. I see it though and i agree that a few people do need to post a lot more including myself which i am trying to do now.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Is nobody else seeing the merits of a PP scum read?

Really?

Summarize why PP is scum

[Secret Agent Jin]

So, Garmr, are you suggesting a link between Dreal and Pine? I actually think that the surface level is what you are looking at with the Dreal/Pine thing. We know Dreal was scum but do you think scum would try to move one vote off their partner when someone can easily point to that and link the two? I think it was more of a ploy so that when Dreal flipped someone would draw lines to Pine and take him down.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sad to see Think Big replace but it gives a fresh new view on his slot and it may help some of us see the slot differently.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Here's my best argument for town pine in the context of this discussion - Dreamer's actions cannot be looked at in black and white terms. He could have soft defended his buddy, yes, but he could also just be saying crap in an attempt to get town read or in an attempt to confuse town. You cannot conclusively say that Pine is scum because of this isnstance.

This is what i was trying to tell Garmr with my post when i referenced that he was looking at it from the surface. I am convinced that Dreal's defense of Pine was either his attempt to gain town points or his attempt to lay down posts that would link him to Town!Pine if Dreal flipped which would result in a Pine lynch, essentially taking a town member with him and causing town to waste a day phase.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im pretty convinced this Garmr/Pine thing is TvT so i am going to move away from that.

@NN You are scumreading PP but your vote isnt on him, is there a reason you are holding back on the vote? Are you waiting for opinions from others concerning PP? I will ISO him and give you my thoughts.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I am not 100% on the thought of scum!PP so my vote wont go on him for this moment. I am confident that Pine, Garmr, and NN are town. Still on the fence about TB's slot and LUV.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So 1 of Jine Pine or Penguin are scum, according to you? They're the ones on the wagon (I think)

Which wagon? If TB then i was never on the TB wagon.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I would like to see more posts from Dark Horse, Flubber, or 1-Shot. To everyone, what are your opinions on those three?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I will post a better summary for you Shadow but Jingle Jam is on and that takes priority over everything.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sorry for the absence, i have the flu and i have been sleeping like 18 hours a day. I will read up right now

[Secret Agent Jin]

You did but that was a quick post here or there. I think i posted once in one game and /in for a mini game that i was asked to quickly join before it filled.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So what i am getting from all this is PP v NN is still alive, Flubber thinks Shadow and myself are scum together but Flubber is really scummy looking himself, and Shadow has a semi for the 1SVT.

Ill throw down on a Flubber vote as they are the scummiest out of the proposed lynches. I think Shadow is pretty townlean in my opinion so if he is confident in a 1SVT vote, its probably a good vote also.

VOTE: Flubber

[Secret Agent Jin]

Shadow has done a decent job at convincing me that his slot is town. I was on the fence for TB's playstyle D1 but Shadow is doing a way better job playing out that slot.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You started a wagon on tb/shadow_step

I sprung up really fast as a counterwagon

Why does this not bother you?

This is what confuses me

'you started SCREAM into place'

What even is this?

[Secret Agent Jin]

All these posts from Flubber do look rather crappy once you start reading other peoples opinions of them.

VOTE: Flubber

[Secret Agent Jin]

About 12 posts up?

S_S? I think he is pretty towny to me. He is actively pushing people and isnt a lurker. Normally scum stay active but outside the main light but he seems to be on the offense and has a fair bit of attention which scum hates.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Nah, that's just Shadow...NAI. He hasn't done anything that changes my read on that slot. If he wasn't in TB's slot, I would probably lean town.

Well you said that the other wagon waa about 12 posts up and the only wagony thing around that was the VC with the Flub and S_S wagons. Which player were you meaning?

[Secret Agent Jin]

No, you're correct about the wagon. I was disagreeing with what followed.

So, if he wasnt in TBs slot you would townlean him? Is your SR based on TB entirely?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Yes. Something wrong with that? Replacements don't magically change roles and alignments.

I guess there isnt a problem with it, i just didnt know if it was S_S directly.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Which matters... Because?

It matters because i was curious on his stance and reasoning in reference to S_S.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have read up and i dont see a convincing arguement against the Flubber wagon. Flubber is at L-1 and i think S_S is likely a better bet for town than Flubber. Are we stalling out on the wagons? We seem to be split and are heading nowhere. I understand the S_S slot seems scummy because of TB but i think he has done a decent job bringing the slot back.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have read up and i dont see a convincing arguement against the Flubber wagon. Flubber is at L-1 and i think S_S is likely a better bet for town than Flubber. Are we stalling out on the wagons? We seem to be split and are heading nowhere. I understand the S_S slot seems scummy because of TB but i think he has done a decent job bringing the slot back.

Presumably Garmr has intent. He'll get to it.

Do you also think that TB/Shadow is a better lynch today? I can't tell for sure based on your post.

I think Flubber is a better lynch. I think Shadow has redeemed some of the damage TB did.

[Secret Agent Jin]

The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark? I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that. Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.

@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?

@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?

[Secret Agent Jin]

The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark? I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that. Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.

@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?

@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?

Basically I came up with a idea on how to sort pine that I'm keeping to myself If it fails I'll lynch him.

If it fails, do let us know

[Secret Agent Jin]

As far as Dark goes, it seems that there isnt much. He looks to have disapproved of LUV but nothing came from that, he didnt push it much which means to me that the kill doesnt point to LUV. He talked briefly about Shadow and Flubber, it looks like he was talking about how the flubber flip tells us about Shadow and i think that is why Shadow was Vigged. Does anyone get anything else from Dark's ISO?

[Secret Agent Jin]

So either scum got him, or the vig got him, right?

I don't recall anyone scum reading him openly - so the vig getting him is less likely.

I don't recall him doing anything in particular that would have gotten him noticed - so maybe scum just got lucky?

When i ISO'd Dark there was no post that even pointed to the fact that he was doctor so either the scum got lucky or the vig took a wild shot and got really unlucky. I am more inclined to think the vig shot Shadow and the scum killed Dark. Anyways. Shadow, LUV, and Flubber were the only ones Dark mentioned so i dont think we can really go off of his ISO.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Nobody seems interested in talking about 1SVT. Come on Garmr, widen your scope a little bit

.

Alright, i ISO'd 1 shot and he had 17 posts with little actual substance. He was big on TB/Shadow being scum and he talked about Dreal before he was killed, Dreal was a vig shot and Shadow might have also been a vig shot. So either 1-shot is lurker scum or he is a lurker vig. Should we put pressure on him and risk outing a vig or risk letting him go and flipping scum later?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Nobody seems interested in talking about 1SVT. Come on Garmr, widen your scope a little bit

.

Alright, i ISO'd 1 shot and he had 17 posts with little actual substance. He was big on TB/Shadow being scum and he talked about Dreal before he was killed, Dreal was a vig shot and Shadow might have also been a vig shot. So either 1-shot is lurker scum or he is a lurker vig. Should we put pressure on him and risk outing a vig or risk letting him go and flipping scum later?

I don't think the 'maybe he's a vig' is enough for me to not want to pressure him.

See, my thought process is that even if he is a Vig, he hasnt been talking and interacting much and he needs to be a more proactive member to the town.

If/When you show up 1-shot, please let us know your updated thoughts on the game and explain why two of the night kills were the only players you actively talked about.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Secret - who do you believe today's lynch should be if not 1shot?

I believe it should be 1-shot. I also believe we need more questioning of LUV but im nursing a migraine right now and it hurts to even look at my screen. Ill write up some questions when my migraine dissipates.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I don't think LUV is scum. Can't really quantify it for you guys - it's a gut feel.

Speed lynch him if you need to, but you can count me out.

Im not too sure on LUV either but i could see myself voting for 1-shot very easily.

VOTE: 1-shot VT

[Secret Agent Jin]

This may be my the way I read it but his conclusion should go to one of me or pine is scum with the tone and the build up in his post. If it would of been better for scum to shoot me or pine to draw eyes to the other then if i was in position on that thought track I would think there is a possibility that one is scum. But he doesn't seem to reach it or show it so it's kinda intriguing.

I meant that in the mindset that you and pine were TvT, it would be easy for scum to kill one of you and then pin the kill on the other one thus eliminating two town and having the next night phase to kill a third town member. Alright, you are/were so sure Pine is scum from the previous days read through that if scum killed Pine and he flipped town then it makes you look a bit worse and an easier target for a mislynch. I hope that describes what i meant in my post you quoted.

In saying that, i do believe that Garmr is town from the way he handled his read on Pine and through general conversation and interaction with everyone else. He did drive his scumread of Pine sort of hard but he ended up being able to avoid the tunnel and compromise on a different lynch.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Being unable or unwilling to explain or justify a vote that you've allowed to get to L-1 is pretty fucking anti-town.

Considering the apparent fact that you, someone who presumably has been reading the game, haven't found a single extant slot scummier than the inactive one, I think I've found a good resting point for the evening.

VOTE: nn30

Well this didn't last long.

Nice mis-rep. Town will see through it, I assure you.

VOTE: Boring

You pulled your vote off Boring and then proceeded to put it back on, are you willing to wait for her to catch up or are you looking for a hammer?

UNVOTE: Boring

I am unvoting so she may have the chance to catch up

[Secret Agent Jin]

I know i havent posted much lately in this game due to chaos in my life. I am for a mass claim as, due to the obvious togetherness we lack that is inherent in the vote count. Do we popcorn or just claim when we can? I think popcorning is the best way because it doesnt allow for the scum to wait it out until the end and hide behind a claim that is likely to be ingame. Example is that if people claim a high amount of Vt it would be more likely for scum to be able to hide within a PR. I hope that the advantage of popcorning role claims is apparent.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I also only received the role PM for this game, i wonder what my pre-re-roll role was. That was a tongue twister.

I am also VT. That is what, 4 VTs out of 7 so far? I think we have some mud in this pool if one of the other three claim VT.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.

Wow, that came across a little petulant.

I'll admit I'm really excited by this game, and I do find the low activity a little disheartening. Maybe it's made me over-enthusiastic. That aside, do you feel like town was running well enough on its own before I came along? Specifically, did you think this game was heading toward a town win before I subbed in? What makes Jin low-hanging fruit to you (as opposed to genuinely scummy)?

I certainly dont have a way to hard confirm myself via a role action. All i can offer is the fact that if you look at my past games i am scummy in all my games and come off as low hanging fruit. I cant seem to ever avoid being anything but scummy no matter my alignment. If you provide a question for me or point to a scummy post, i can answer it but i cant really defend myself against "he seems scummy" without you pointing to something. Also, i am with NN, once he claimed VT, that only leaves one unclaimed player and two/three PRs so some people have to be claiming VT when they are scum/pr (the scum claiming town are understandable since they wouldnt claim scum).

[Secret Agent Jin]

So who's lying? Why did they agree to the massclaim if they intended to lie?

I think that someone who doesnt agree to a massclaim would look scummy for trying to deny the masses more information.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Other than revealing PRs, what other reason is there to go against a massclaim?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Hey, are you guys seeing what I'm seeing comparing Jin's ISOs between our game, and Hunger Games II?

He's pretty assertive in the scumhunting there, and he keeps on topic. Just as important, he seems to be thinking for himself there, and doesn't hesitate to bring up new stuff. In our current game, he skirts around scumhunting topics keeping to bland, middle-of-the-road comments. The most game-solvey he's been is "that's probably TvT so I won't touch it".

I'm about to look at garmr next. I think that if Jin is scum, then either garmr or nn30 are chainsawing. I'm leaning toward garmr.

I was not assertive in that game at all. I attacked town players, i didnt know who to actively go for, and i had crappy town reads. I play the same way in this game too.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You might have had crappy reads, but there was a clear effort to hunt and solve. Being wrong happens to everyone. I've been told that "great scumhunters" are still only 50/50 (which is all town needs to win, I suppose). In this game, I'm not seeing the same spark of initiative, and none of the drive.

In that other game, you mentioned that you play on another site. How long have you played there? Do you feel like the formats there and here are too different to consolidate the experiences?

On the other site the days are 72 hours and the nights are 24 hours and no one meta-games. It is very different here as i feel that meta is a useless tool because, personally, my playstyle changes constantly. I could be aggressive, all out as town one game, lurker town another, and lurker scum the third. I read what you have done this game. It seems you are sure i am scum and you are entitled to that thought.

Let me ask this, if we mislynch this phase then scum kill tonight whats the odds starting next day phase?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.

I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.

Why?

Let me ask this, if we mislynch this phase then scum kill tonight whats the odds starting next day phase?

You know the answer. Especially if vig shoots town. So if you'd be a mislynch, where do you think we should be looking?

If we mislynch and vig shoots town then with the scum kill we would lose. If the vig shoots correctly then it would be 3:1 town:mafia. If vig doesnt shoot then its 3:2. So we really cant afford a mislynch. i wish i could tell you im a power role but i honestly cant, so i am still a suspect within the VT pool.

Anyways, assuming we accept LUV as a PR and you as town as you say you are. That leaves Garmr, Pine, NN, KMD, and myself.

Garmr is either solid town or really good at selling to us that he is, i wouldn't vote here for now.

Pine, i honestly dont know what to feel about him. He did well fighting the Garmr accusations but that might just be good self control from scum.

NN is the lowest of my town reads but he had fluctuated within my reads a while back when it was him and Penguin. It seems a bit opportunistic that he waited for the majority to claim before he did and then voiced that he was weary because the PRs were not claimed. That seems a bit like he was hoping the PRs would surface.

KMD is scummy to me but its a gut read so i am going to ISO him and his slot when i wake up.

Honestly, LUV was a lurker slot to me and that read as scummy but he claims PR and there was really no other claims so i am inclined to believe he was just laying low earlier on to survive and is town.

Truthfully, your slot, boring, had little substance before you replaced in and you have been a guiding voice for town so far. I really dont know if that is because you are a strategic player and good at the game or you seen a broken and sheepish town and decided to take a big role in misguiding the town. I think that the former is the case and you are town.


I will have to ISO KMD and NN before i place my vote or carry on about a case involving either of those two.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Jin - If they're your top scum reads, how likely is a kmd+nn30 scum team in your mind?

Honestly i am confident that NN is scum but looking at the previous posts, his partner could be KMD or Garmr. I think the scum are keeping their distance and only slightly pushing votes off each other without being obvious about it.

P.S. Watch the scum team be Garmr/Pine and i am just daft about this whole game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Then lets get this lynch on the road guys. The longer you take, the more i age like a fine gallon of milk. If you think i am scum then throw your votes at me like they are dollars and i am some kind of cheap exotic dancer.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I still think Jin's the most likely scum, which sucks because he's nice.

*snip*

I think that's L-2

Look at me, over here all warm inside. You, young lady, just made my sig. That quote is going straight in there.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You all are going to be thrown for a loop with my flip. I can see it now "He was what? We never expected that" or "Oh Jin, he is so handsome, i wish he would notice me".

[Secret Agent Jin]

Can i at least have the answers to why i am being lynch rather than people saying i am scummy and voting me?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Alright, my last will and testament it is then. Pine, Garmr, and KMD are obvtown to me since they have a chance to hammer and havent. That makes me think that they are waitng for my last will, scum would have dropped the hammer by now. That leave NN, Boring, and LUV. LUV claims PR when no one else has but it doesnt auto-clear him. I see a Boring/NN scum team or an LUV/NN scumteam. I agree that, as a VT, you wouldnt be losing a PR with my lynch but you would be losing a pro-town number in the grand scheme. I agree that i have been slacking this game but i lose steam when i am a VT and dont have night actions to accomplish. I hope to learn to not be so upset when i get a vanilla role, it usually instantly makes me less interested in the game. If you save me today i promise 100% game solving and attention to this game when i wake up tomorrow. I think Boring is what i needed to get involved in this game, she took charge and ran the game as a leader, i hope to play future games with her. She has got me interested in a game that i would normally be slacking in, thank you Boring.

VOTE: NN