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Post Post #22 (isolation #0) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:43 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 19, drealmerz7 wrote:I have a beard. :| but I am town

you must be scums for such implications
You know who else has a beard?

The devil.

Image

Vote drealmerz
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Post Post #34 (isolation #1) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:18 am

Post by Pine »

Moar votes for drealmerz gogogo guaranteed scum is never lie
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Post Post #35 (isolation #2) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:19 am

Post by Pine »

In post 34, Pine wrote:Moar votes for drealmerz gogogo guaranteed scum is never lie
I'd never lie*

Stoopid autocorrect
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Post Post #67 (isolation #3) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:14 am

Post by Pine »

In post 41, 1 Shot Vanilla Town wrote:VOTE: No lynch
In post 43, 1 Shot Vanilla Town wrote:Only scum want to murder.
I don't want to murder because I'm town.

Vote no lynch for a peaceful tomorrow, today!
Bad logic. No.

RVS is now over for me. Serious vote -

Vote 1SVT


No lynching robs Town of its primary weapon, and rejects the agency of Town. NLing outside MYLO and specific unusual mechanics is an anti-Town action. And I could make an argument against NL even in MYLO.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #4) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:22 am

Post by Pine »

In post 52, nn30 wrote:So, there are corner cases where no lynch is a good idea.

If we're in a MyLo and we have the option of no-lynching without losing the game, we should absolutely no lynch. Scum are forced to kill that night and we get to remove a potential mislynch option from the pool.

This is not that corner case.
I missed this before. Since you picked it out, I'll address it. I've come around to an anti-MYLO-NL position because too often I've used it as scum to choose who to bring to endgame. Kill the guy who suspects you, or leave alive the ones who suspect one another, and you can easily pull out a win. In 3-1 MYLO, you essentially need to come to a unanimous agreement, obviating the possibility of a quick hammer.

I believe No Lynch is only useful when specific unusual mechanics are in play, and bastard games aren't really worth discussing outside bastard games. NL proposal gets you lynched, in my book, as either a scum claim or policy.

PEdit: Fuck off, I'll read whatever I like into whatever else I like. Vote bullying like you're doing is also a scumtell. Chainsawing this early? Amateur.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #5) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:25 am

Post by Pine »

The whole point of RVS is to catch hidden motives couched in the jokes. 'Random' votes aren't really random, they're influenced by underlying psychology. I'm picking 1SVT's 'joke' out as potentially indicative of a scum mindset. Disagree if you want, but I'm going to shake this tree until I'm satisfied that nothing's falling out.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #6) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:02 am

Post by Pine »

nn30 wrote:
In post 50, Joshz wrote:VOTE: 1 shot wonder

=P
In post 70, Joshz wrote:See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie. That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine
I could forgive post 50 as being an RVS (which I very clearly think it is).

That said you basically took my reasoning as the gospel in post 70. Not even a question of my motivations - you just use it to attempt to skewer Pine.
OH well spotted. I can choose to let 1SVT go as having made a joke in poor taste, but this blatant cogdis needs rope.

Vote joshz


Keep up this kind of analytical thinking, nn30, and I think we'll get along just fine.
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Post Post #82 (isolation #7) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:07 am

Post by Pine »

In post 81, Dark Horse wrote:
In post 77, gerryoat wrote:Okay so the beginning is basically just a bunch of dumb votes like always. good to know
This post sucks
That post is fine. I concur with the sentiment. I generally find RVS to be useless, prone to Town vs Town squabbles.
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Post Post #87 (isolation #8) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:17 am

Post by Pine »

I disagree about it being flimsy. My votes are based on an assessment of underlying psychology of actions. 77 is a factual whine about the RVS phase, which I'm no longer in.
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Post Post #96 (isolation #9) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:13 pm

Post by Pine »

@Dark Horse: My vote stopped being random when I voted 1SVT. I found. Better place for my vote after the NL discussion, but I tend to try to get out of RVS as quickly as possible.
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Post Post #105 (isolation #10) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:26 pm

Post by Pine »

@Jin-Hitler built autobahns
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Post Post #116 (isolation #11) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by Pine »

@josh - Town of Salem experience does not apply. The game is played VASTLY different there. The other site probably doesn't apply either - most sites that are not MS are essentially random lynching most of the time, or else overly rely on PRs.

Also, get an avatar you hippy scumfuck.

@Mod This is why you have your players confirm their role by PM. Please require that Josh does so


Uncertain whether scummy actions by Josh are newbie VI stuff or if "I don't know my role" is a ploy.

PEdit: It's against the rules for a reason. Not knowing your role makes it impossible to play to your wincon, which is an enforced rule.
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Post Post #117 (isolation #12) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by Pine »

In fact, please require that everyone does so. I have already done so.
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Post Post #140 (isolation #13) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:30 pm

Post by Pine »

Cool story bro
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Post Post #144 (isolation #14) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:37 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 141, Joshz wrote:I'm already hammered, I'm green. I'm probably going to be remembered as an idiot because that's how communities work. I'm perfectly happy ThinkBig my dude, this site just isn't the right fit for me and I'm sorry for screwing up this games beginning. I'll stick to my other sites. And for the record, I prefer being scum.
I kinda wish we hadn't hammered so quickly. The giving up thing was a big warning sign.

Josh, do me a favor and don't give up on the site just yet. Go play a few Newbie games. There's no shame, this site just has a bit of a learning curve, and a wide variety of conventional practices. If you're genuinely Town, then you regrettably ran afoul of a few without really being aware of it. I'm applying to be an IC (newbie tutor) and would gladly help you get your feet wet to this site. Sorry for the rough welcome.
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Post Post #145 (isolation #15) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:38 pm

Post by Pine »

Drealmerz, look later on the Josh wagon. My reasoning was at least original, the rest of the wagon just steeped onto it.
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Post Post #148 (isolation #16) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Pine »

Best advice I can give you is to read some new player's guides and more newbie games. Then play a bit reserved and cautious until you have a handle on the culture here.

If it helps, my first non-Newbie game here went much the same way as this one. I made some cultural missteps, got run up quick, and only a last minute freak-out like yours saved me from being lynched. We went on to win pretty flawlessly. You're not alone.

Failing that, something else you could do is shadow a more experienced player, or even hydra with them. That way, you can know their alignment and genuine reasoning, get guidance, and not make these kinds of mistakes. Assuming you do indeed flip Town and this wasn't just a big appeal to emotion, I'll volunteer for the mentoring position as penance for this mislynch.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #17) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:50 pm

Post by Pine »

Pine wrote:Best advice I can give you is to read some new player's guides and more newbie games. Then play a bit reserved and cautious until you have a handle on the culture here.

If it helps, my first non-Newbie game here went much the same way as this one. I made some cultural missteps, got run up quick, and only a last minute freak-out like yours saved me from being lynched. We went on to win pretty flawlessly. You're not alone.

Failing that, something else you could do is shadow a more experienced player, or even hydra with them. That way, you can know their alignment and genuine reasoning, get guidance, and not make these kinds of mistakes. Assuming you do indeed flip Town and this wasn't just a big appeal to emotion, I'll volunteer for the mentoring position as penance for this mislynch.
@Josh
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Post Post #157 (isolation #18) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by Pine »

Hey garmr, your hardon for me is showing. Two inches? Pathetic.
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Post Post #170 (isolation #19) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:07 pm

Post by Pine »

Unvote


I am inclined to believe the breakdown. Like I said, my first non-Newbie game something similar happened to me. Josh doesn't strike me as having the guile to pull off such a convincing AtE.

This doesn't preclude him being scum, as I think the "I didn't read my role PM" thing sounds believable, but it does suggest we give him a full reset, let him recover, and judge him from this point forward.

Josh, go read your role PM, compose yourself, and engage with this thread. Consider this a Newbie Plus game.

PEdit: I'm not getting worked up, garmr. I'm mocking your "case." Being dismissive is actually kind of the literal opposite of getting worked up.
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Post Post #181 (isolation #20) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:18 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 171, Garmr wrote:No the real question is why should a town feel pressured at 1 vote.
Yeah I don't feel pressured. Again, mocking and dismissing is kind of the opposite of giving a shit. Be productive, please. You don't get to do nothing but tunnel bullshit at me. Your non-engagement with literally everything else going on in this thread is kinda scummy.

PEdit: Dude, your "what is Town" compass is reverse polarized. Build a real case, and maybe I'll engage it. You've just plain got nothing, so I'm not derailing energy best used doing something useful.

Vote drealmerz


This guy is WAY too disappointed at the dissolution of the Josh wagon. Why so invested in it? He was an easy lynch, looks like disappointed scum.
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Post Post #186 (isolation #21) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:31 pm

Post by Pine »

drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 181, Pine wrote:
Vote drealmerz


This guy is WAY too disappointed at the dissolution of the Josh wagon. Why so invested in it? He was an easy lynch, looks like disappointed scum.
I'm fucking devastated. Seriously. It's fucking bogus. Scum tactics through and through. He sells it well, but I am NOT BUYING IT. If he hadn't self-voted I MAYYYYYYYBE would have MAYYYYYBE dropped it depending on the rest of it, but, nononononono, that is just SCUMMMMMMMMMMM. And if he gets replaced because you guys let him go...omfg...graaahhhhhhhhhhhhh...."ohno they caught me replace me" - it's a fucking free pass

NOOOOO.

It's gotta be my HS culture. No doubt.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #22) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:37 pm

Post by Pine »

Happy with my new vote.
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Post Post #195 (isolation #23) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:41 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 193, drealmerz7 wrote:what is that like pre-OMGUS cause I was starting to SR you harder?
@Who?
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Post Post #211 (isolation #24) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:53 pm

Post by Pine »

Ugh, this game.

Moving on. I'm inclined to look at the latter part of Josh's wagon to try and identify opportunistic scum smelling blood in the water and going for the kill. Looking at the votes, that suggests to me {Drealmerz, ThinkBig, and LUV}, the 4th, 5th, and 6th votes on him, respectively. The merit of this approach is immediately evident, as Drealmerz scummed right onto the wagon. Regrettably, I spotted that a little too late D1 to save Josh. Fortunately, Vig/SK saw it too and we don't have to spend a lynch on him. That leaves me to look at ThinkBig and LUV. Of the two, LUV seems to not really grok what's going on in this game, and it comes off as a bit unfeigned. I'm inclined to think the sheep onto the Josh wagon was a genuine sheep off of a well-presented (albeit incorrect) case.

That leaves ThinkBig. Drealmerz and TB both went for Josh in rapid succession, elevating that wagon from an early exploration and pressure to L-2. It's hardly a wonder that newbieTown panicked, felt ostracized, and suicided. Taken as a whole, TB's behavior strikes me as opportunistic, as does his daystart congratulating the Vig. He's a bit new too, so it's hardly inconceivable that he just wouldn't know that that sort of thing is a common overcompensating behavior of disappointed scum, on par with betting too big on a bluff in order to cover the fact that you've got nothing. Attack on Flubber in 210 fits with this theory, as it serves to suppress or discredit new perspectives before they appear.

Vote ThinkBig
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Post Post #217 (isolation #25) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:56 pm

Post by Pine »

Garmr, we've played together before. You're smarter than this. Blind tunneling is looking scummy.
In post 215, Dark Horse wrote:Pine what do you mean by "not really grok what's going on in this game"
Well, aside from the fact that the meaning is pretty plain via context, and the fact that you have Google at your fingertips (and Google has a good definition), I'll clarify. Grok is an obscure slang to indicate intuitive understanding. I was suggesting that LUV seems lost and more than a little confused, which in my book suggests he's part of the uninformed majority. There's also a competence connotation that I was trying not to make explicit, out of politeness.

His difficulty getting a handle on the game does not strike me as artifice.
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Post Post #219 (isolation #26) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:02 pm

Post by Pine »

Not checking your role PM is NAI. Lying about not checking it is pure scum.

We're not going to have any progress rehashing the foundation of the Josh lynch. The reasoning was solid, but predicated on him having more experience and know-how than he did. He went driving on a learner's permit and didn't understand the traffic signals, causing an accident.

Much more interesting are the people who used his mistake to get an easy quick lynch.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #27) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:25 pm

Post by Pine »

It's called 'bussing,' Garmr. Your theory ONLY works if I'm scum, and Drealmerz was trying to move votes off of him and onto me. Considering that Drealmerz was actually attacking me pretty hard at day end, your premise doesn't hold water.

It's a classic soft bus. Mention two people, one Town and the other your scumbuddy. Give an unsupported scumread against your buddy, then spend your time attacking your real target. Hint: It was me.

PEdit: I don't remember the game you're referring to, but it doesn't really matter. If you lost a game that way, you correct the behavior and move on. You don't get to continually use it as an excuse to do scummy shit. I mean, Christ, you've hardly given an opinion on anyone other than me and now TB.
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Post Post #224 (isolation #28) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:51 pm

Post by Pine »

The only person I've been mocking is you Garmr, so you can stow that plural pronoun.

Further, he didn't really push TB over me. As I said in literally the post before yours, he mentioned TB, then went after me. That's a classic soft bus. You offer up your teammate without much supporting evidence, then go after your true target - me.

Seriously, flipped scum offered one target, then went after me. How does that not scream bait-and-switch to you?

Case on TB is pretty solid. You're kinda the one who's doing nothing but throwing shade.
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Post Post #227 (isolation #29) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:09 pm

Post by Pine »

I genuinely do not see your point? Josh was attacking me as a means of defending someone else. I don't like it when people tell me who I can or can't vote for, and the apparent chainsawing looked blatant.

Seriously, I genuinely don't see your point, or how those two quotes are in any way connected.

PEdit: Now I get it. I wasn't reacting to Josh's suspicion of me, I reacted to him telling me how to vote or not vote.
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Post Post #239 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:52 am

Post by Pine »

nn30, you're being way too forgiving. You can't extend the benefit of the doubt to someone in Mafia. It's pretty antithetical to how the game is played. I feel like giving TB that benefit of the doubt is the only reason yo have for TRing him.
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Post Post #241 (isolation #31) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:29 am

Post by Pine »

*shrug* Disagree. Distancing, then a pivot to a real target is a classic scum tactic. Trust me on this. You're new around here, but I've seen this many times. Performed it a few too.
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Post Post #243 (isolation #32) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:38 am

Post by Pine »

It's more Drealmerz's actions and general impressions than specific things about TB. However, Congratulating the Doc is a classic newbie scumslip though, and congratulating the Vig is an entirely fluent translation of that.
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Post Post #264 (isolation #33) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:44 am

Post by Pine »

In post 244, nn30 wrote:
In post 243, Pine wrote:It's more Drealmerz's actions and general impressions than specific things about TB. However, Congratulating the Doc is a classic newbie scumslip though, and congratulating the Vig is an entirely fluent translation of that.
So I guess the question is how new is TB?

He's been here for over a year and has numerous completed games.

I think that means he's not going to make the 'newb scum slip'

Do you agree?
Join date 2.5 months ago, post count 368. That's about as vulnerable to newbie tells as you get.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #34) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:47 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 273, nn30 wrote:Is nobody else seeing the merits of a PP scum read?

Really?
Not really. Pretty null to me.

PEdit: That was probably a joke. He might also have asked you to get the mod to confirm the case.
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Post Post #310 (isolation #35) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:09 pm

Post by Pine »

Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.

ThinkBig is the correct lynch.
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Post Post #313 (isolation #36) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by Pine »

Because Josh was already lynched. Fucking simple stuff
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Post Post #325 (isolation #37) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:44 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 324, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Im sad to see Think Big replace but it gives a fresh new view on his slot and it may help some of us see the slot differently.
Not really. His actions thus far still count, as do those of the people interacting with him. Just because he's getting replaced doesn't change the fact that he was scummy, nor does it change the fact that drealmerz's actions point to him.

Moar TB votes.
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Post Post #336 (isolation #38) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:41 pm

Post by Pine »

Wait, how does drealmerz attacking me "link me to him"?
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Post Post #345 (isolation #39) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:29 am

Post by Pine »

In post 211, Pine wrote:Ugh, this game.

Moving on. I'm inclined to look at the latter part of Josh's wagon to try and identify opportunistic scum smelling blood in the water and going for the kill. Looking at the votes, that suggests to me {Drealmerz, ThinkBig, and LUV}, the 4th, 5th, and 6th votes on him, respectively. The merit of this approach is immediately evident, as Drealmerz scummed right onto the wagon. Regrettably, I spotted that a little too late D1 to save Josh. Fortunately, Vig/SK saw it too and we don't have to spend a lynch on him. That leaves me to look at ThinkBig and LUV. Of the two, LUV seems to not really grok what's going on in this game, and it comes off as a bit unfeigned. I'm inclined to think the sheep onto the Josh wagon was a genuine sheep off of a well-presented (albeit incorrect) case.

That leaves ThinkBig. Drealmerz and TB both went for Josh in rapid succession, elevating that wagon from an early exploration and pressure to L-2. It's hardly a wonder that newbieTown panicked, felt ostracized, and suicided. Taken as a whole, TB's behavior strikes me as opportunistic, as does his daystart congratulating the Vig. He's a bit new too, so it's hardly inconceivable that he just wouldn't know that that sort of thing is a common overcompensating behavior of disappointed scum, on par with betting too big on a bluff in order to cover the fact that you've got nothing. Attack on Flubber in 210 fits with this theory, as it serves to suppress or discredit new perspectives before they appear.

Vote ThinkBig
Vote ThinkBig


Not sure why this wasn't counted
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Post Post #347 (isolation #40) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:44 am

Post by Pine »

That's been my take of late, more or less. He's been insanetunneling, and scum tend to branch out a bit, give themselves some options. Garmr has literally not given an opinion that doesn't revolve around his read on me (the TR on ThinkBig was mostly because I am SRing TB)
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Post Post #355 (isolation #41) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:09 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 353, Garmr wrote:So can you summarize your case on penguin I haven't really looked into the player yet.
Or anyone else, really.
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Post Post #361 (isolation #42) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:14 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm not seeing it. Stay on target - ThinkBig. Drealmerz at day end points right at him
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Post Post #369 (isolation #43) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:07 am

Post by Pine »

That's just bad logic.
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Post Post #371 (isolation #44) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:53 am

Post by Pine »

Disagree.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #45) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:26 am

Post by Pine »

I tried to put the brakes on the Josh lynch after his meltdown, but yeah, re-interpret history however you fucking want.
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Post Post #411 (isolation #46) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:28 pm

Post by Pine »

Flubber

Vote TB with me and there will be candy
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Post Post #457 (isolation #47) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:15 am

Post by Pine »

Garmr's giant boner for me is getting really old.

He has still not posted anything resembling a read on anyone other than me and TB, and he's towntunnelling TB because I SR him.

Get a life, man. You're ignoring the simple evidence that Drealmerz did a bait-and-switch at the end of D1, where he actually spent Twilight attacking me pretty relentlessly. That's a classic soft bus of his buddy. He didn't attack TB at all - he stated a SR of him, then moved on. How are you not seeing that?
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Post Post #459 (isolation #48) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:26 am

Post by Pine »

WTF? I'm not tunnelling. Garmr is.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #49) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:43 am

Post by Pine »

I'm not, actually. I'm scumreading you. Tunneling would be scumreading you to the exclusion of all other things, giving no reads on other slots and being completely focused on you. I've given solid reads on half the playerlist at least, and interact with everyone. Garmr does practically nothing but fabricate shit on me.

I'm sorry you replaced into a scummy slot.
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Post Post #464 (isolation #50) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:56 am

Post by Pine »

@462: Because scum.

In fact, this post is evidence to suggest that a shadow_step scumflip should be followed with a lynch of Flubber. Same reasons as before - makes a weak case on buddy, then attacks an actual victim.

Game solved. Drealmerz, TB/SS, Flubber.

GG.
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Post Post #466 (isolation #51) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:41 am

Post by Pine »

No no, Flubber read is based on a S_S scumflip. Not until then.
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Post Post #476 (isolation #52) » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:53 pm

Post by Pine »

Cool. Is this a situation where I can just donate some to the Red Cross every few months so you can take a hit when you need it? Get a life.
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Post Post #484 (isolation #53) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:00 am

Post by Pine »

In post 481, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 466, Pine wrote:No no, Flubber read is based on a S_S scumflip. Not until then.
If we lynch scum both d1 and d2 even if you vouch for my lynch you should also consider what I pointed out on Saj
See, I had this whole speech prepared. About how when scummers these days don't know what someone is referring to, they ask people to repeat themselves instead of looking it up themselves. You ruined that for me.

Because you haven't really mentioned SAJ until the quoted. Pretty much at all.

So you put me in the irritating position of doing what I despise in new scummers: wtf are you talking about?
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Post Post #531 (isolation #54) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:10 pm

Post by Pine »

^lol

Too bad being funny is NAI
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Post Post #533 (isolation #55) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:31 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 532, Flubbernugget wrote:You literally just saw a counter to the wagon you started SCREAM into place and that's all you have to say?
Please rephrase in a way that is gramatically decipherable. I've read this three times and have no idea who you're addressing or about what.
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Post Post #539 (isolation #56) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:57 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 534, Flubbernugget wrote:You started a wagon on tb/shadow_step

I sprung up really fast as a counterwagon

Why does this not bother you?
I don't really believe in counterwagons anymore. I've seen that kind of logic backfire way more often than be helpful.

It's like the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Bullshit. "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, no more, no less." Same with analyzing counterwagons. They deserve independent analysis unless there's reason to think otherwise.

Besides, I'm not even sure it qualifies as a counterwagon. The TB/S_S wagon was losing steam and falling apart before the wagon on you started. It's not a counterwagon, it's a second wagon.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #57) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:31 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 540, Flubbernugget wrote:*sigh*

Won't argue theory in thread. There's plenty of reason to believe shadow step is scum outside of wagons.

But you still seem incredibly indifferent to the fact that a wagon on your scum read is falling apart
I'm not indifferent, just realistic about how mafia is like herding cats. The fact that I also quite like the alternate wagon mitigates my annoyance too.
In post 547, Shadow_step wrote:Flubber your whole logic falls flat on it's face because if I was scum I'd have voted you by now. There is lietrally no reason for me not to.
Sure there is. He's your scumbuddy.
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Post Post #550 (isolation #58) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:38 pm

Post by Pine »

Not your fault, really. Drealmerz and TB blew up your spot, and Flubber's not helping. For the position you're in, you've played pretty tight. Dissolution of the wagon on you is evidence to that effect.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #59) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:05 pm

Post by Pine »

Intent to hammer Flubbernugget. I'd prefer S_S, but either works.
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Post Post #567 (isolation #60) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:25 pm

Post by Pine »

VOTE: Vote Flubber

L-1
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Post Post #601 (isolation #61) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:03 am

Post by Pine »

In post 600, Garmr wrote:The fact that anyone suspects waiting as scummy just shows how far mafia scums player base has declined in recent years.
Truth
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Post Post #603 (isolation #62) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:09 am

Post by Pine »

Umm, why.

If you're scum, no you're not.

If you're Town, no you're not.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #63) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:10 am

Post by Pine »

Nvm, I forgot about vig/SK/JOAT

Yeah, kill S_S. An anti-scum vig/SK makes me happy.
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Post Post #607 (isolation #64) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:18 am

Post by Pine »

Yeah, I did. Then I considered your statement, remembered which game I was in, and it made sense. I need to stop posting without thinking things through.
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Post Post #609 (isolation #65) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:43 am

Post by Pine »

What

Why would you discount the possibility? All we know is that there is another killing role. The only common Normal roles with that are SK, Vig, and maybe JOAT. We don't know which, and assuming isn't productive.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #66) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:14 am

Post by Pine »

In post 611, Garmr wrote:
In post 610, Shadow_step wrote:Read #4

JC please don't tell me I'm the only one to have read that.
To be honest I didn't know this was a open game till day two.
I didn't know it was an open game until you just told me it was an open game.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #67) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:00 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 624, nn30 wrote:
In post 466, Pine wrote:No no, Flubber read is based on a S_S scumflip. Not until then.
In post 560, Pine wrote:Intent to hammer Flubbernugget. I'd prefer S_S, but either works.
Thoughts on this, Pine?
What thoughts would you like? I had a weak scumread on Flubber, and compromised on his lynch when my preferred one wasn't going through. As for both of them flipping Town, I need to reevaluate a bit.

garmr
1Shot Vanilla Town
Secret Agent Jin
nn30
Pine
Lil Uzi Vert
PenguinPower

I have strong enough TRs on Garmr and nn30 to set them aside.

1Shot Vanilla Town
Secret Agent Jin
Lil Uzi Vert
PenguinPower

Half of this pool are scum. I've had weak TRs on LUV and PP, so offhand I'm going to say 1SVT and SAJ? Need to do some ISOs when I haven't been drinking.

PEdit: Same to you, dick.
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Post Post #644 (isolation #68) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:49 am

Post by Pine »

I'm not Vig, though I applaud their choices. The responsibility of a Vig is to act as a second lynch. We definitely would have wasted a ML on TB/S_S
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Post Post #647 (isolation #69) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:54 am

Post by Pine »

Eat my ass, Garmr. TvT deathtunneling is why MafiaScum has such a low Town winrate
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Post Post #649 (isolation #70) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:23 am

Post by Pine »

In my experience, the guy no one wants to talk about tends to be scum
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Post Post #658 (isolation #71) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:01 pm

Post by Pine »

I've done my ISOs, and am most comfortable lynching 1SVT.

VOTE: 1SVT
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Post Post #660 (isolation #72) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:16 pm

Post by Pine »

Well, I only ISO'd 1SVT and SAJ, and neither of them are particularly great. 1SVT seems to be treading water a lot, and my guess is that he's been availing himself of the old scum standby of letting Town fight Town. Me vs Garmr is a goldmine for them. SAJ seems also to be coasting, but there's some effort to gamesolve which may indicate Townishness. In light of that, I'm wondering if 1SVT and LUV are our team, as LUV seems to be the one going for the low-hanging fruit, but any of the three in combination wouldn't surprise me.
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Post Post #662 (isolation #73) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:28 pm

Post by Pine »

Then why the fuck is your vote on me.

Flashwagon on LUV?
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Post Post #713 (isolation #74) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:03 pm

Post by Pine »

@boring: nn is Town. Jin and PP are both hard to read, in part due to low content, but the worst I have to say about them is that there's nothing distinctly Townish about them; nothing distinctly scummy either. PoE has scum narrowed to {boring, Secret Agent Jin, Lil Uzi Vert, PenguinPower}. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's you and LUV
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, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #745 (isolation #75) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:07 am

Post by Pine »

Massclaim is fine. Given Open, no one will be fakeclaiming, so popcorn isn't necessary.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
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Post Post #759 (isolation #76) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:08 pm

Post by Pine »

Same.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #761 (isolation #77) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:11 pm

Post by Pine »

Image
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #763 (isolation #78) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:12 pm

Post by Pine »

If there was a reroll, I have no idea. I only received one role PM.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #766 (isolation #79) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:02 pm

Post by Pine »

Well obv. There's a Role Cop, a Vig, a Jailkeeper, and a Goon left, plus three actual VTs. With an open setup and massclaim prior to LYLO, no one's going to get crazy and fakeclaim. The Vig and RC become confirmed Town, but get killed N3 and N4. Five VT claims, two of them lying. That means that the Town PRs are in {PP, nn30, and LUV), with the third either VT or scum.

I suggest that the VT/scum of those three claim, and the PRs simply confirm that they're the PRs to confirm them as Town. No need to claim which, there's utility in withholding that, as scum could shoot for one or the other role tactically (I could make arguments for either).
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #768 (isolation #80) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:35 pm

Post by Pine »

Oh good point. Never mind my strategy then.
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Post Post #771 (isolation #81) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:46 am

Post by Pine »

Okay, so PP and NN are our PRs, unless a PR fakeclaimed VT, in which case NN and PP still need to claim to rule out opportunistic scum fakeclaiming.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #776 (isolation #82) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:28 am

Post by Pine »

In post 773, boring wrote:Pine, KMD replaced PP.
Who am I missing, then?
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Post Post #778 (isolation #83) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:34 am

Post by Pine »

Interesting, that narrows things down.

My vote on boring stays.
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Post Post #780 (isolation #84) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:40 am

Post by Pine »

Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #85) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:59 am

Post by Pine »

In post 781, boring wrote:
In post 780, Pine wrote:Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.
Wow, that came across a little petulant.

I'll admit I'm really excited by this game, and I do find the low activity a little disheartening. Maybe it's made me over-enthusiastic. That aside, do you feel like town was running well enough on its own before I came along? Specifically, did you think this game was heading toward a town win before I subbed in? What makes Jin low-hanging fruit to you (as opposed to genuinely scummy)?
He's got a low post count, low content. Given your options, taking into account that Garmr, NN, and I are all widely TRed, he's the easiest option.

And yeah, there's shenanigans.

I propose we postpone the remainder of massclaim until tomorrow.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #786 (isolation #86) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:50 pm

Post by Pine »

I hate it when people ask me to point to something specific about a Townread. That's not how genuine Townreads work. I find it's often a scumtactic to discredit widely TRed players.
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Post Post #787 (isolation #87) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:51 pm

Post by Pine »

TRs are developed over time and are usually inspired by larger patterns and behaviors. There are very, very few legitimately singular Towntells, and anyone who says differently is scum or selling something.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #872 (isolation #88) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:36 am

Post by Pine »

Okay, I think I need to start playing this game again.

Pine - VT
Garmr - Claimed VT
Lil Uzi Vert - Claimed PR
nn30 - Claimed VT
boring - Claimed VT
Secret Agent Jin - Claimed VT
Kmd4390 - Claimed VT

Okay, eliminating LUV, myself, NN, and Garmr.

boring - Claimed VT
Secret Agent Jin - Claimed VT
Kmd4390 - Claimed VT

There are two scum in the above set. If one of the three of you is a PR trying to lay low, we can skip straight to lynching the other two for the win.

Looking at these three, my strongest scumread has long been on 1SVT, which boring has done absolutely nothing to redeem. I was thinking SAJ too, null on PP/KMD, but given that boring is going really hard for SAJ, I'm more inclined to think boring/KMD.

I'm up for either boring or KMD right now.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

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Post Post #901 (isolation #89) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:02 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm still pretty sure that boring is the right answer today. Her flip gives us all kinds of information, and 1SVT/boring has been the scummiest player so far. The ease of this Jin wagon makes me really nervous about it too. That said, KMD didn't hammer when it had the chance, so that makes me rethink the {boring, Jin, KMD} paradigm, making me wonder if my TRs on one of Garmr and NN are incorrect. Of the two, I'd be more inclined to reconsider NN, especially in light of how Garmr has been tunnelling down on difficult reads, whereas NN has votehopped a lot.

Yeah, I'm really starting to see {Boring, NN}

Thoughts?
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Post Post #927 (isolation #90) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:18 am

Post by Pine »

Bah. This was a classic case of getting off to a good start and resting on our laurels. There was a point D2 where SAJ and I were almost universally townread. Coasting after that screwed us.

Well played, Town
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Post Post #931 (isolation #91) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:13 pm

Post by Pine »

Props to Garmr. That connection between me and drealmerz was real. That said, knowing is only half the battle, bro.
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Post Post #938 (isolation #92) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:53 pm

Post by Pine »

Shadow_step wrote:Vig shot on me was terrible.
It was understandable. You dodged a lynch, and likely we would have spent the rest of the game suspecting you. I certainly would have brought you up as a mislynch candidate in the future.

PEdit: Also that
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Post Post #940 (isolation #93) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:20 pm

Post by Pine »

Nah I'd have killed you earlier than that. You were too widely Townread to be brought to endgame.
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Post Post #942 (isolation #94) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:11 pm

Post by Pine »

Yes, but you were dead set against me. I'd rather give a manipulable confirmed Townie the Kingmaker power and rely on my ability to convince them than go 1v1 in a threeway unknown situation.

Endgame is all about choice. Scum get to choose who they bring to the table.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #95) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:21 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 943, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 937, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 936, Shadow_step wrote:Vig shot on me was terrible.
Yeah I wasn't even scum reading you hard during Night 2, I was just surprised Flubber flipped town so I decided to sheep Pine.
It was actually the correct NK. Reason for this is that you are suppose to NK people who are likely to get lynched making it a double day.
This is a much more concise way of saying what I meant.
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