Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

Waiting for GiF to actually post a VC.
All you guys are dicks for voting for Pie in Pie's game, though.

[Varsoon]

Just woke up.
Curious how there was such a momentum swing to Aeronaut.

[Varsoon]

GEE MOM HOW COME AERONAUT GETS THREE THANKSGIVINGS?

All good.
I'm curious if GiF will ever do VCs this game, or if every time, it'll just be a 'top' post, unedited.

[Varsoon]

Pisskop's town.
I don't understand the speed or fervor for the aero wagon, though.

[Varsoon]

Girls can be pieguys ~n.

Pie, on a scale of 0 to 10, how sure are you that there's actually no IC in this game and you got a bum role?

[Varsoon]

Girls can be pieguys ~n.

Pie, on a scale of 0 to 10, how sure are you that there's actually no IC in this game and you got a bum role?

probably like a 9 or a 9 1/2.

where do you intend to go with this?

Trying to gauge what the setup is like based off of what's been claimed and what I know to be true.
Chances are, everything in this game is just some nonsense intended to rub Pie the wrong way.
Knowing that helps me sort out some things and will be very helpful in mid/late game when roles are more important to the outcome of things.

[Varsoon]

Instead of talking about this fargone hardly-game-related external nonsense,
let's get to the meat of the thing:

Drealmerz. Are you scum?
This is your one chance to answer truthfully.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Varsoon

This also looks decent.

Fucking beefboy.

[Varsoon]

Nahdia dropping an unexplained vote my direction after Dwlee okay's the wagon is something I can look over, like, "Okay, hm. Sure. Maybe there's something going on there."
But Beefboy sheeping after I call out the Aero sheep? Poor form.
Notably, Drealz didn't even answer me yet despite replying in thread twice, and you'd think someone so giddy would care to say something when directly addressed.
VOTE: Drealz

Stop talking about things that aren't thing game.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon isn't turian.

Oh fuck you, yes I was.

[Varsoon]

@Cakez: I had to see an answer before laying a vote down. Sometimes, shitty scum is just shitty scum.
Look at this. Drealmerz has shit up over half the pages so far with discussion that's tertiary to the game at hand.
When asked to get back on point, he doesn't at all, skirting quickly around a question about his alignment, directly, here and now, as if it were an awkward thing to engage with.
Then, when called out on that, he quickly goes into attack mode against a slot he had no previous qualms with.
Curious, no?

Notably, Drealz didn't even answer me yet despite replying in thread twice, and you'd think someone so giddy would care to say something when directly addressed.
VOTE: Drealz

Stop talking about things that aren't thing game.

I actually only saw it when I went back over (missed a few posts actually) and read, and was like "mehh" to answering it

I mean...really? Looks like you're just fishing to make shit up too.

Looks like you're just blowing smoke and making the thread a pain in the ass for people to read.
Insisting on discussion that's only tertiary doesn't help in the slightest. You want to go have a mafia discussion thread? Don't do it here.
Focusing on the game is hardly 'making shit up', and the 'too' there comes of as a rhetorical slip--either you're using it in addition to you considering my previous question something to not answer, which is admission that you'd rather discuss these tangential topics than the nature of your own alignment, or you're using 'too' to imply that someone else is making shit up, which, in this case, would be you.

Now, please, I eagerly await your half-cocked rebuttal.

[Varsoon]

@Cakez: If it was just the off-topic stuff, I wouldn't have voted him. As you may notice, I didn't. Instead, I called for a stop to it while giving him an in to return to strictly game-related discussion. The response was less than favorable. You'll find that's why my vote is there and why it's remained there.

Varsoon is speaking too many words.

I haven't even begun, but, yeah, I'm going to have to adhere to smaller posts. My last P-EDIT was a whole damn page of replies.

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Because I'm fly as fuck and everyone wants a piece of this.

I just felt like town blocing with people I had no read on

I will never understand this mentality. Like. Feels like the best way to get snowed as town and a coverup for buddying as scum. Can you explain a little more why you felt you wanted to do this?

I'm glad my obligatory day 1 wagon is getting out of the way early

This feels off, too. Like, "Haha, glad we got wagoning me out of the way, amirite guuuuys?"

Varsoon, are you scum?

Not this time around. Why did you claim extra role utility/power when you claimed Miller?
I see no reason to do that.

I don't understand how that portion of what Drealz is doing is AI. Like, you're focusing on the fact that he's barf-posting every thought and feeling, but what's the scum motive in that? Like, he's giving stances, so that doesn't make sense.

I suppose I'm coming from a personal bias. I've had a track record of shitting up threads just to kick up dust--Open 512 stands as a testament to that and why it should be immediately stopped.
He's giving stances on things that are arbitrary to the game--I could tell you all about my favorite pizza toppings and how I feel about getting other scummers to buy me Pizza (I'm for it!) but that's hardly related to the game at hand.
Yes, he's still playing the game, yes, he's putting down some content that actually has to do with it, but imagine if we were at 10 pages instead of 18. It'd be beautiful. All that content and none of the chaff.

[Varsoon]

@Beeboy: Yeah, pretty much.

[Varsoon]

For what purpose?
It's not quite the same as delineating town and scum reads.

[Varsoon]

I recall asking a bunch of questions that, iirc, never really got answered. :/
Playing is for rubes, I guess.

[Varsoon]

I'll dig 'em up, give me a sec.

First, though:

VOTE: varsoon

I just ISOd you and you're bitching at my contributions and...those are yours??...

This is a garbage OMGUS attempt at revitalizing a wagon that started to lose pressure.
If this is your attempt at contributing to the game, it's all bluster and no actual work involved.
You ISO'd me? What'd you take umbrage with? OH, nothing? You just wanted a poor excuse to make it look like you're making an informed vote?

Eat rope.

[Varsoon]

@Aeronaut:

Back in 432, I asked, "Why did you claim extra role utility/power when you claimed Miller?"
If you've already answered, point me in that direction. I will be the first to admit that, while I'm reading this game, I might not be fully lucid--if I miss something, I apologize.

[Varsoon]

Oop, I did miss it. Blame the awkward formatting, Varsoon. Not the fact you're probably in need of proper sleep and nutrients.

Anyway.

I can only think of GOOD reasons for scum to make that claim, and POOR reasons for town to do it, but it is what it is.

[Varsoon]

What a shit show.

[Varsoon]

@Cakez: I detail exactly what I find weak about the post while positing what I expect the slot to produce, should it be town.
Don't short-change me.

[Varsoon]

You wrote a whole paragraph and it does nothing but the exact scumpainting that you're complaining about.

[Varsoon]

@Cakez: I detail exactly what I find weak about the post while positing what I expect the slot to produce, should it be town.
Don't short-change me.

If your only defense is to lie about my engagement with the game, I suggest you start focusing your efforts elsewhere or self-vote.
You're projecting very hard right now.

[Varsoon]

EBWOP: Disregard that quote.
Quote-grab grabbed that, for some reason.
I was originally going to just grab my last 10 posts to show you how you're literally wrong, but
anyone can see that for themselves.

[Varsoon]

As in, manipulating you to look at the game, realize how blatant drealmerz is scumpainting me with the omgus of 'Nuh-uh, Varsoon's the one doing nothing this game!', and maybe vote there.

Goddamn, it's like the entire game of Mafia is nothing but rhetoric.

Of course I want you to vote my scumread.

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, Drel, my reasons for pushing a vote on you have evolved far beyond your lack of contribution.
Please, actually read the thread.

[Varsoon]

i dont feel like dreal is doing anything scummy

do you have any other reads?

TOWN:
pieguyn
pisskop
beeboy
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Aeronaut
mhsmith0
Wisdom
Luna Fox
SirCakez
drealmerz7
SCUM

THIRD PARTY (CLAIMED, BUT PROBABLY ACTUALLY LYLOBILITY. THAT PUN DIDN'T WORK. LIABILITY + LYLO):
Nahdia


Basically.
I feel most confident in my reads on Pieguyn, Pisskop, Nahdia, drealmerz, SirCakez, and beeboy.
I also wouldn't let Aeronaut anywhere near LYLO with that claim, either.

[Varsoon]

can you explain your pisskop read please?

pedit: @varsoon

This is pisskop's town game. I was able to confidently forward pisskop as town by my fourth post.
If you want more, I can share, but I'd rather keep some of it a secret until post-game.

also Id like to know why you're not voting Cakez who actually has a wagon if you're feeling confident about both him and drealm.

pedit: still @varsoon

I feel stronger about Drealz, and, as the votes on this page reflect, a drealz wagon is possible. That's why I haven't skipped from the Drealz vote that I initially made--I'm confident in the read, and, as Drealz posts more, I am not losing that confidence.

[Varsoon]

right
What do you think dreal's scum motivation is again?

Lynch the town--like, what do you mean?
I saw earlier posts as eager engagements with topics that went on for pages,
coupled with very non-committal reads posted from time to time. (Even now, drealz doesn't expound upon reads--like, why does he think Luna is so town? What posts, specifically? That amount of distance is a smokescreen, imo. It lets drealz come up with reasons later, rather than having to construct a narrative now.)
Moving forward, since I had already had a few votes and had expressed a negative pings from drealz,
It made sense for Drealz to vote me and play the angle that I'm scumpainting players; not that I'm scum pushing people over little issues, notably.
It's way easier for drealz to walk away from my flip with a "Well he was scumpainting everyone, so I thought he was scum, whoops." It excuses his play against me as weak town play, rather than scum play.

[Varsoon]

Right, except you flipped out, not just "detailing what was wrong with the post"

Until I begin posting videos of Macho Man Randy Savage and making photoshop edits of Charles Barkley, I have not yet flipped out.
Did I go a little hard in the paint?
Sure.
That's what pressure looks like.

[Varsoon]

Town, I'd imagine, wouldn't be so dodgy when initially prompted about their alignment--at that point, drealz was heading the conversation. I sought to drive the rhetorical power away from that.
Furthermore, I don't see town being so late in their vote on me. When the initial votes swapped over to me as it was clear the Aeronaut wagon was losing traction, those made sense. Drealz' vote came after the fact, in a place that feels scum to me.
Finally, Drealz posts against me, while they may be mostly NAI, don't ever seek to vindicate the points I make against Drealz. It's this all-out attack, and, most of it, a redirect of very early points I made against Drealz. This tells me that, for some reason, those early criticisms are what stood out and what drealz takes offense to. Which, likely, means that they're on-point.

[Varsoon]

Town, I'd imagine, wouldn't be so dodgy

yeah ill just stop you there
dont assume townies actually play like town should play, or you'll misread people all the time

this whole thing sounds like you just dislike dreal's playstyle

That's probably the case, too.

[Varsoon]

Alternatively:
Can't I dislike the style and the slot be scum? :/

[Varsoon]

Except that you didn't laugh it off or even mention it until after the fact.
Why are you so hung up on our initial crossroads when several other, far more damning accusations have been made against you?

[Varsoon]

Varsoon is scum who doesn't want to give up his push because he'll look bad me thinks

I don't want to give up my push because I'm confident in a scum flip.
Give a shit about how I look.

Actually, I'd be okay lynching Varsoon or dreal rn
something about their interactions doesn't feel like T v T.

Yeah, because drealz isn't town.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: varsoon
Adios

Ayyy, does my read on you have anything to do with this one, Cakez?

[Varsoon]

So, then, Luna, who are your current townreads and how do you plan on going about sussing out the people who are left?

[Varsoon]

Can you please explain all of the good reasons for scum!me to claim that, and all of the poor reasons for town!me to claim it, because as far as I'm concerned, every player who gets a miller role should claim it on D1, preferably earlier than I did.

I'm not talking about the Miller claim--that was a good idea. Claiming Miller D1 is what you should always do.
I'm talking about being the highest voted wagon and then claiming Miller but also claiming your role is very powerful otherwise.
I've avoided discussing this further because doing so strips any perceivable town utility from such a thing, but, fuck it, you've pushed the envelope:
There's only two reasons I see for town to claim the 'but-powerful' part of 'Miller-but-powerful' in that situation:
1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. To draw the scum kill.

However, since scum players don't have to worry about drawing a kill, claiming you have a powerful role otherwise, as scum, allows for the following:
1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. Potential to look good on a rolecop/watcher check if you've got a traditionally 'town' looking role.
3. To draw town role-related investigations, which, if you're claiming this as scum, you're admitting that you'll come up as a scum player, but you've now got an 'out' to target people with your 'powerful role'.
4. To allow you a free pass later, when you actually claim that 'but-powerful' part of your role. Because you've left it intentionally vague now, other players can only speculate, and you can tailor it to being whatever you want later. Your kill fails? Oh! You're a doctor or BP now! You're put close to lynch again? Suddenly, you're a cop!
5. You're looking to draw town protectives away from others, because players will want to protect a claimed 'powerful' role rather than blindly pick someone else.

Claiming Miller was the right move to make if you're actually a town miller. However, if you're a town miller with a 'powerful' role, you've only painted a target on your back, which is only helpful if:
1. You're hoping to draw a protective
2. You're hoping to draw and punish a kill.

The first of which is unlikely, because, with the Miller claim alone, you could've enacted the 'more powerful' aspect of your role without scrutiny.
The second of which is stripped of most utility and now only WIFOM given that I've covered it and it's been put front and center.

So, yeah. Poor reasons for town to claim that way.
Perceivably good reasons for scum to claim that way.

If I'm wrong, please don't correct me. If you're town, I don't want you to flush away any further utility your role might have.
If you're gambitting with the whole 'more powerful' bit, stop it.
If you're scum, you'll be lynched before LYLO regardless.

[Varsoon]

Given what I've outlined, that's essentially how I have to treat the claim--as either a poor town play or as an attempt at manipulation by scum, but, nevertheless, as a slot that should be vig'd or lynched before LYLO.

[Varsoon]

Precisely what I'm hoping to do; but as of now, we're talking about the claim and how to read the claim.

[Varsoon]

Good luck.

[Varsoon]

Jesus 10 pages.
I'm just gonna pull a Klingoncelt and respond as I catch up.

@mhsmith: I still felt like there was plenty of pressure on Aero, especially with the Pie backup IC claim. If I have my timeline of shit wrong, then I do, fuggit, whatever. Actually, if there wasn't wagon pressure on Aero, it makes softing the other part of his role more awkward, maybe. :/

[Varsoon]

luna can this please stop? it's not helping the game

I'm not stopping
beeboy's like 99% scum in my eyes.

Can you elaborate more on this or quote the posts where you do?
'cus I think you're probably both town, though I don't follow your logic nearly as much as beefy's.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: drealmerz

Also let's talk about how opportunistic this is
No posting from gamma, just hopping on wagons whenever

Would you be less critical of it if gamma was hoping onto wagons that you supported?

[Varsoon]

granted the people on vasoon's wagon aren't the best :/

But you're on my wagon!
Besides, I can get that you're a bit miffed that I zero'd in on your claim, but you put down a massive thing and literally everyone just ignored that shit.
What was I to do?
Shit pings hard to me.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon why would he ever answer yes to that

I'm trying to highlight a bit of his bias.
Gamma does have posts, though.

[Varsoon]

I would rather a lynch not occur before I actually have a chance to sit down and do shit in this game. thanks in advance.

I would like an explicit agreement for this.

do people really feel the need for this circus to continue for another 10 days

let's just lynch something and all cool off for a nice relaxing 48 hours.

My vote's not moving unless it's got good reason to.

I would also prefer a lynch at this point, as there's plenty of content to inform one and there's just been, as I've seen, mostly bickering otherwise.
Some flips would be welcome info.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon i <3 you but you definitely rolled scum this game

I'm really going to have to let you down.

Varsoon why would he ever answer yes to that

you mean like "drealmer, are you scum?"

more examples of Varsoon asking aimless questions yay

The question was hardly pointless.
Yes--the direct question, what it was asking, fuckin' bullshit. I'll say that.
The WHOLE POINT was that I was testing to see if Drealz would actually step off of his tangential discussion to talk about the game, even when asked something so awkwardly direct about his alignment.
He didn't. He purposefully avoided it.
Like goddamn
Did you really think
"Oh man Varsoon sure is miffed this guy didn't admit to being scum or not?"
Because the whole spark of my wagon on drealz is "Varsoon thinks it's scummy to actively avoid engaging with the reality of the game, while posting several pages of fluff."

Furthermore, holy shit, is it reductive to have my entire push against drealz confined to that moment--especially so when you rubes don't even understand the goddamn point of it.

[Varsoon]

Also I think dreal is a super lynchbaity player and that scum are taking advantage of that

it's often how I play to try and draw scum to me to sort them, but not always, just when I'm in the mood

issue is when I have to convince ppl on it, works better when ppl know me, but, still, tis how I play sometimes so it's how I'm playing

hint: vote varsoon

LOL I AM NOT SCUM, I JUST PLAY ANTI-TOWN TO DRAW 'EM IN
SL-SLA-SLAYERS GAMBIT, GUYS!


Fuck, holy shit, I've laid out several points against Drealz and all I see is this dude just constantly parroting, "Lol yeah, vote varsoon."
I'm exasperated with that shit.

[Varsoon]

but I feel like you could have asked so many other questions to get him to talk about the game, such as (but not limited to): What are your town reads? What are your scum reads? How do you feel about so-and-so?

Instead of blarg are u scum look at me I'm edgy

I've already explained this.
Please actually read my posts.

[Varsoon]

why should we vote varsoon again?

because he's scum duh

c'mon, you should know to ask better questions

Literally OMGUS.

That's all there is to it.

P-EDIT:
@Aero: See post 570 by me and 525 by Beeboy.
Then ISO Drealz and see how many posts of his are literally, "VOTE VARSOON HE IS SCUM" and nothing else.
That should be enough for anyone to lynch that shit.

[Varsoon]

The WHOLE POINT

is that you aren't accounting for me being town who simply didn't want to engage your inane questions

you found something to latch onto to paint me as scum and then some more and pushed me as scum until you realized you couldn't back down (because of the things I say so that you can't wiggle out of it like I've learned scum to do)

keep wiggling though, it's purrrrrty

Keep slipping. Scum wouldn't be 'accounting for you being town' because they'd know you're town.
Furthermore, I haven't latched on to any one thing. It's you and your defenders that keep bringing up that singular point of contention.

I've laid out several points against Drealz

i dont recall even one of them right now
All i remember was you spamming hes scum

That's literally what drealz is doing.
:l

[Varsoon]

@Aero: See post 570 by me and 525 by Beeboy.
Then ISO Drealz and see how many posts of his are literally, "VOTE VARSOON HE IS SCUM" and nothing else.
That should be enough for anyone to lynch that shit.

570 just looks like "i dislike his playstyle to me"
I dont recall you being a fan of policy lynches?

There's a pretty clear line between "This is D1 and this is the most anti-town player" and a policy lynch, such as "I don't like Wisdom, let's lynch him so we don't have to sort him out."

It's exhausting, dealing with all this, though. Like, goddamn, fuck me for caring about my reads and pushing a wagon. Everyone's been trying to stall that shit so hard and discrediting me every fucking step of the way.

[Varsoon]

@Aero: Sometimes the sum of the parts makes a greater whole.
Regardless, let me dig my own ISO to find reasoning that you missed so that you can disagree with it.

[Varsoon]

PS: By that, I mean, no. I won't. Because I'm not going to play into Drealz' hand of exacerbating myself over the tiny, initial thing that pinged me on him.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon I'm really not trying to frustrate you. And you're acting like I'm the only one who doesn't understand your reasoning and it's like a lot of people

Yeah, well, I've laid out my rationale, but, y'know, fuck it. I'm the scatman. If you don't get it when I explain it, then you're not going to ever get it. We're of two different minds.

but thats what youre basically saying

"dreal is obnoxious/weird/other objectives, no way hes town, lets lynch him"

So simple question, have you not seen townies play like dreal (or worse) before?

No, basically what I'm saying is that Dreal, when put under pressure, does not engage with the reality of the game, gives reads without supporting them, has been counter-pushing against my wagon with only conjecture that I am scum and little else, all while playing his up as low hanging fruit. That's anti-town play. Could it be town? Fuckin' sure, yeah, everyone could be. The whole point of mafia is to make an informed decision on your lynch. With the info I have, this is the lynch I feel most strongly about and most likely about flipping scum.

I've seen townies play far worse, but this isn't an issue of 'bad play' and I wish people wouldn't be so quick to give drealz that benefit of reading him as town for it.

[Varsoon]

I would also prefer a lynch at this point, as there's plenty of content to inform one and there's just been, as I've seen, mostly bickering otherwise.
Some flips would be welcome info.

how LAMIST of you

IF you think that's posturing, holy shit.

[Varsoon]

Then do you have a townread on everyone else?

Generating content that allows for transparency in their reads and play, actively engaging with other players, and being critical of anti-town play--these all contribute to early townreads, for me. Obviously, scum can do all those things, which is why I don't catch scum with 100% clarity every game.

[Varsoon]

Bullshit. I've been questioning, critical, and observant of others' play so far. I've brought up plenty of points no one else has. Apologies if I'm not pulling out the Wake-laser or whatever the fuck he calls it and addressing every single player in a wall post every post I make.

The only other player I am even considering for a lynch today is Cakez, and that's largely between his 'Woe-is-me' AtE, staunch defense of drealz, and poor contributions (imo) otherwise.

[Varsoon]

see, more reasons I think you're scum.

What reasons?
Could you at least outline them?
For what reason are you scumreading me beyond the fact that I've got a scumread on you and that I have rationale for my scumreads?
What is it that makes me so assuredly scum, moreso than anyone else, drealz?

[Varsoon]

you've chosen to view/paint me those ways because it's convenient to do so

you aren't allowing for anything else, and at first wouldn't let go, now can't

That's such garbage rhetoric;
I support the wagon that I'm pushing. I believe in my rationale for thinking you're scum. Of course I'm not going to put a vote anywhere else unless given good reason.
If anything, you're the one painting here, insisting, "OH VARSOON CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT PUSH ME' when I've been doing plenty. Your toxic bullshit has seeped into other player's perceptions, too, because others are insisting on the same false narrative.

[Varsoon]

You're going to need to elaborate on all these reads, even if you feel like you 'dont need to do more convincing'.

[Varsoon]

No, basically what I'm saying is that Dreal, when put under pressure... [plays] his [wagon] up as low hanging fruit.

You're going to need to elaborate on all these reads, even if you feel like you 'dont need to do more convincing'.

[Varsoon]

You'll do it now, because it's customary for players to give their reads lists before they are lynched.

[Varsoon]

(Speaking of Reads-lists, <3 Nahdia for making me smile.

[Varsoon]

Yes.
Give your reads.

[Varsoon]

Hm.

[Varsoon]

What's interesting is that it's been three hours and you've posted elsewhere on-site multiple times, and, yet, have not produced and explained list of reads here, yet.
It's almost as if you're avoiding doing so.

[Varsoon]

As always, you default to be nebulous rather than clear.
Video isn't allowed in my country.
Looks like you'll have to actually claim.

[Varsoon]

*does a sicknasty kickflip over the last 10 pages*

heeeyyy what's up guys.

You made a cute reads list that was cute
I back-and-forthed with Drealz
Other questions were asked and answered
Honestly, just go read it

[Varsoon]

Six pages to catch up on, just read the Pie wall of misunderstandings:

@Pieguyn:

I'm not scumreading Aeronaut for his claim. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I was hoping for some sort of reassurance, but when Aero continued to ask about it, I laid out what my issues with the claim were. It's less of 'you are scum for claiming this' and more of 'I do not understand why you, if town, would claim in this way.'

In defense of Dwlee, I'm fairly certain he's the type to sort things out privately and then post in-thread. Just ask him for rationale on things and he should be able to give it.

In defense of myself, guess I'm just a shitter. Like, what do you want me to say? You've literally levied an argument that my play is bad. You're perpetuating the notion that I'm stuck in some tunnel, and, yet, here I am, engaging with you and providing insight into my thoughts as well as thoughts on other players.

I wish you wouldn't hedge my push against Drealz into such a territory either, because, at this point, I'm pushing Drealz primarily due to being unclear about many things, claim and reads included. You haven't touched, at all, on how focused I've been on Drealz being: Nebulous, evasive, lynch-mongering, unclear, and self-victimizing. Like so many others, you're hanging up on the initial pings I had on the slot and not following through with our interactions.

If you can't see all that, then, sure, focus on me. Prod me about. Flip me over on the grill until I'm well done. But when you bite into me, don't you complain that I'm not a good cut of meat because you fail to appreciate my broiled flavor, homie.

[Varsoon]

As an update on the Aero bit, I'm more reassured given his response.

[Varsoon]

Oh, now that I've got the okay on it:
I'm in a neighborhood with Pisskop and Dwlee. This is largely why I understand that Dwlee has, at least, a little more of a handle on the game than what seems evident in the game thread.
This also helped to contribute to my Pisskop townread, as Pisskop has been fairly forthcoming and clear-cut between there and here.

[Varsoon]

I LEAVE THE DANCE

PLS STAY


But on the real, I'm not taking any of that to be real until it's mod-confirmed.

At the very least, I do buy that the Beeboy x Luna stuff isn't theater and that they're both actually factually frustrated with each other.

[Varsoon]

What the fuck happened while I was gone

I claimed our hood, people submitted (probably) fake actions, there was a thread lock, but no votecount.
Because it's not like we needed a VC or anything.

[Varsoon]

I'm only gathering this from context clues.
Maybe it's just weird that multiple people mentioned a lock after the bolded suicide bomb thing.

[Varsoon]

So, why do you want a lynch on Pisskop and Aero, again?

[Varsoon]

^
This, basically.

[Varsoon]

Hoh boy the ironing.

@Pie: But why, exactly, pisskop or aero?
I also wish I had more of a grasp on my reads, myself, because I feel that I have too many people in the 'middle'. You can chalk my earlier enthusiasm to end the day up to hoping to narrow things down while letting me have some associatives to work with.

[Varsoon]

wisdom is varsoon flips town we're killing cakez

Lynching is the verb you're looking for, drealmerz. Lynching.

[Varsoon]

Maybe I'm just not a deep person, Aeronaut. Did you ever consider that?

Honestly, though, you're going so ham that I hope you've got some sides for that feast. Why such vigor?

[Varsoon]

@pieguyn: What's giving you a more definitive townread on mhsmith and gammaemerald over Aero and Pisskop, then?

@Aeronaut: Oh. Be more specific with your questioning, then? I don't exactly know what to say.

[Varsoon]

@Cakez: Wait, hold on. You're criticizing Wisdom for having no conviction with the Drealz scumread while still pushing me for 'tunneling' drealz?
You can't have your cakez and eat it, man.

[Varsoon]

I currently have the same feeling i had in badass women.
Where i scumread pie and ppl proceeded to ignore my read on her and she proceeded to destroy everyone.
Here i'm scumreading bee, and people continue to ignore his attempts at BSing.
(also yes that suicide bomb was fake)

Can you lay out, in one post, what's informing your scumread on Beeboy?

I can see frustration from Beeboy being critical over things you consider not to be that big of an issue, such as misreading/skimming/etc. but I don't know that I've followed it beyond that and your back and forths over it.

[Varsoon]

I firmly maintain my stance that scum are attempting to flood the thread right now, and I think Varsoon's questions look a lot like busywork.

You were largely not here and then you come back and drop this huge judgment post where you're lumping previous townreads into a (possible apathy) lynch pool.
I'm trying to figure out what's informing that change in your reads, especially since I feel that Pisskop and Aero's later posting have left me with more of a town impression than before.
Furthermore, I don't have strong reads on mhsmith or gammaemerald and I'm curious why they're higher up in your reads list.
If demanding transparency and assistance in reading the game from a player I consider to be town is busywork, then fuck me, yeah?

[Varsoon]

She's upset he's pushing her over missing details in Aero's posts. Luna is exaggerating the issue from what I see.

@Varsoon

Can you lay out, in one post, what's informing your scumread on Beeboy?

Constnatly misrepresenting my posts, saying im scum for making mistakes then he makes mistakes too then he doesnt remember wanting revenge or any other times i've made mistakes but expects me to have photographic memory of all my games and every post i read, and when i tried to finally end the engagement with him he provokes me to keep engaging with him, in addition of accusing me of things im not doing because apparently he cant read my posts.

Yeah, that's why I'm seeing this as frustration between you two rather than anything alignment-indicative.
Like, Luna, what does Beeboy, as scum, have to gain from this line of pursuit? What's the scum motivation?

[Varsoon]

@Luna: But I don't see anyone scumreading you over it--a lot of people are just taking it as playstyle difference/misunderstanding/frustration.
There's a lot of other ways to be critical of your slot that would paint Beeboy in a more town-looking light if he were scum, too.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't find Beeboy's responses to you to be critical enough of your alignment, just your play.

@Drealz: Why can't cakez and I be the same alignment?

[Varsoon]

Because Varsoon has spent the entire game tunneling a PR? (I'm assuming dreal is town)

Misreppin' hard, bro.
Why are you treating the claim as if it's 100% factual and that, somehow, I knew that?
Why are you insisting on the 'Varsoon is tunneling' meme?

[Varsoon]

I don't find Beeboy's responses to you to be critical enough of your alignment, just your play.

Then you need to read his ISO better.

Guess so?
I mean, I've been following along in real time.
Regardless.
Outside of Beeboy, what are your thoughts on the game as of now?
I'm curious what your weigh-in on the whole Drealz/Varsoon thing is, obviously, but also--how do you feel about the Wisdom/Cakez back and forth? Both of these seem to be fairly major points of contention right now and I'm not 100% on where you stand on either.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon doesn't pull this kind of stuff usually, and I'm not the only one to have seen it

What meta are you going off of, here?

[Varsoon]

How does the Drealz claim change your read on Drealz?

[Varsoon]

his push in series 497-588

supporting me in your wagon advance and the read I have on you

scum doesn't do that because I have no traction

does it make sense? I really need to head off

I guess so?
Scum bussing aside (which would be garbage play from Cakez, imo), I'm trying to understand why you see him as town pushing me as scum and it'd take my flip to see it as scum pushing town. I understand, from your read on me, why you think we're both not town, and, given what you've illuminated, why you think if I was town, he'd be scum for pushing me like that.

[Varsoon]

Bee, baby, don't try to greentext on off-site boards.

[Varsoon]

more on the thing that im not willing to lynch someone that MAY BE a backup doctor on D1.

Survivalistic claiming aside,
Why?
Do you think the game would be designed such that town all have town-looking roles when claimed, especially stuff like Backup IC, and scum don't?

[Varsoon]

@Drealmerz: I think you're actually a Nurse/Backup-Doctor, for what it's worth.

[Varsoon]

Also back-up inno child could just be a mod given fake claim.

This, too, though it'd be giving (maybe) scum too much info?
I mean, backup doesn't mean that there's a doc in the town, but it does imply it.
Unless this is a special kind of shitty, evil setup.

[Varsoon]

Given how flippant Drealz is about everything else, I don't think he'd claim something that wasn't handed to him by the mod.

@Cakez: What games, though?

[Varsoon]

varsoon are you okay KILLING beeboy?

No. Beeboy's town.

[Varsoon]

Why?

Because we dont need to do scum's job for them.

Do you think the game would be designed such that town all have town-looking roles when claimed, especially stuff like Backup IC, and scum don't?

I think everything will sort itself out over time, scum know who's town already, they will know who to shoot we don't know who to lynch.

The problem is that, if the setup is designed in that way, claiming only benefits town. A mass-claim clearly outs the scum and town get to win, EZ PZ.
Call me a shit, but that's not the kind of setup I like to play.

[Varsoon]

It kinda bothers me that Drealz is trying to get me to wagon-hop onto a townread of mine by promising towncred for it.
Like.
Whut

[Varsoon]

Given how flippant Drealz is about everything else, I don't think he'd claim something that wasn't handed to him by the mod.

@Cakez: What games, though?

Real folk blues and magical girls for two

Real folk blues was cancelled and I hardly contributed to that game. You may recall that it was also, like, three times the size of this one.
In Magical Girls, I was voting TNE for 1000 posts before going to randomidget, what are you talking about?

[Varsoon]

magical girls for two? sounds like I missed a hot one

That game was great and I was awesome and we beat the scum and goddamn I love magical girls.

[Varsoon]

varsoon tunnels dreal
dreal tunnels varsoon and beeboy
beeboy tunnels dreal and luna
luna tunnels beeboy

Meanwhile cakez/aero/pie are laughing at you winning the game for them

pisskop, dwlee, nahdia, mhsmith help

...but where does gamma fit in to all this?

[Varsoon]

No no, wisdom. This is great. My wincondition is for the game to get to 250 pages.

...do we still get to play after you win?
Wait, shit, you wouldn't answer that truthfully if it wasn't the case anyway.

[Varsoon]

Actually Tit for Tat was the first thing that came to my mind when i saw 2 backup claims already, I'd like people's opinion on this:

Besides,
Haven't you ever played tit for tat? it's entirely possible there's a scum doctor that if we kill drealmerz becomes a doctor.
And considering we have 2 backups already (tho i dont think a scum GC is likely unless it's there entirely for the purpose of triggering the backup IC if they dont trigger their GC).

Likewise there could be scum backup roles that trigger if they kill the town version.

I'm leaning more on the end that there's backups with no actual role.
The Backup-IC claim, for instance, strikes me exactly as that.
Regardless, with no flips to go from, I can't really say, outside of what's been claimed and what I know about my role.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, Gif tryin' some straight up meanness.

@Luna: Because, if claimed, gives town two unlynchable slots in a 13P game.

[Varsoon]

I thought we were all in silent agreement to only lynch Pie in LYLO.

[Varsoon]

I believe both the claims were given to the players, independent of alignment, either as a part of their actual role or as a scum fake-role that they can claim instead of claiming an overtly scum role.

[Varsoon]

Why Dwlee?

[Varsoon]

I've got to go do dishes and take a shower and pick up a friend from the airport.
I know you guys'll post 10+ pages before I get back but, uh
Please try to keep it in your pants.

[Varsoon]

I feel like Luna is literally just trying to get under my skin right now.

I feel like Luna legitimately has a scumread on you based on how critical you've been of her play and, yes, is taking every chance she can to react to what you do. Instead of commenting on that, beeboy, just focus elsewhere for now? We're all pretty well-understood on where both you and Luna stand in regards to each other.

[Varsoon]

Why Dwlee?

my wincondition is to lynch him

I think he's scum.

Explain.

[Varsoon]

I agree. I think you're both too focused on cutting down each other.

[Varsoon]

Hey,
Instead of saying "You never asked me about reads" or "You are making up concerns to justify your reads,"
why not "I think X about player Y. What do you think?" or "Can you elaborate on your reads?"
Just, y'know, stuff the gets more content on the table and less bickering.

[Varsoon]

<3
S'okay, beeboy.
I'll always love you.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, dude, I'd just let it lie.

[Varsoon]

Ya'll motherfuckers keep riding my d like I'm the golden corral or some shit

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Cakez

Don't like how Cakez positioned in regards to me and Drealz.

[Varsoon]

@Pieguyn: Dude, I laid out plenty why I thought Drealz was scum based on play.
Drealz didn't even produce a reads list when put at L-1, just a long, played out claim--and you know how I feel about claims, and I made it explicit how I feel about Drealz' claim.
I still want a Drealz lynch, but it seems like other people are too divided between voting me or voting Cakez. Cakez is another scumread of mine. I'm willing to compromise to that wagon. I've stated this explicitly as well.

What's particularly bothersome, Pieguyn, is that you and others were critical of how much I focused on Drealz. Now, the second that I'm not doing that and, furthermore, absent from the game (sleeping, hanging out with friends, etc.) you're playing it against me?

Even when put to L-1, Drealz wouldn't take the pressure to actually generate content. Me sitting on that wagon was providing nothing, either. But, please, illuminate me on how shitty my play is and how I should be lynched, because, apparently, I should've just kept tunneling Drealz, even though you've already outlined how shitty and scum that is.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't, doesn't it seem? You're really content to cross your arms and just call my play shit, over and over. It's obnoxious.

[Varsoon]

Fairly certain that's L-1.

I'm a faith-healer. I don't know if that makes me the Doctor that Drealz backs up, but what it does do is allow me to protect people from being killed 50% of the time.
I have a neighborhood with Dwlee and Pisskop. We've made 4 pages of posts and have had good times in there. Both players have confided in me and vice-versa.
I have a neighborhood with Wisdom. It's not even at a page. Wisdom hasn't claimed anything in there, and seems to prefer just talking to me in the game thread.

My scumreads are on Drealz and Sircakez. Drealz, for his claim and his play. Cakez solely for play, especially in the half-cocked support of my wagon and general scumpainting.
I am skeptical about Aeronaut, Wisdom, and Pieguyn. Wisdom has largely been grilling me for the whole game, but it feels like he's been trying to nudge me from the drealz wagon to voting Cakez this whole time instead. Aeronaut's claim still gives me bad vibes, especially given the roles I feel must be town/scum in this game. A miller with a lot of power? Sounds like just scum with a lot of power to me. Finally, Pieguyn's push on me has been disrespectful and blatantly false on several accounts, often levying themselves as this guiding townvoice against me--If scum, I highly imagne Pieguyn snowing the shit out of this game, so I suggest lynching this in LYLO if we even make it that far.
I have townreads on Nahdia, Beeboy, Luna, Pisskop, and, to a lesser extent, Dwlee, Mhsmith and Gamma. Don't lynch Beeboy, Pisskop, or Nahdia in this game.

VOTE: Drealz
Let's seal the drealz and get back to what should've happened 20 pages ago.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, you hard claiming hood w dwlee or was that a typo?

Everything I am claiming is true.
I do not know why Dwlee is trying to distance from it.

[Varsoon]

Vote Drealz.
Stay the course.

[Varsoon]

ffs varsoon, cant you see how bullshit his push on you is?

Literally why I was going to compromise there earlier, but Drealz first.

I only have Daychat with Dwlee and Pisskop.
My hood with Wisdom has chat at Day and Night.

[Varsoon]

I mean, I just dropped literally my entire everything.
I hope Drealz takes notes and learns how the fuck to claim.

[Varsoon]

Laughing forever at 'scum need to generate content'.



Scum's game is to sip margaritas and watch town self-destruct. Town are the ones who have to do any modicum of work.

Pie, I've been engaged with multiple players from the start. You're not a part of my neighborhoods--for one, where I've been posting and interacting.
Two, you're so vain--you probably think this game is about you. You keep posting as if your word is law, but you've been less than transparent about a lot of your read shifts and judgments. When pushed to explain things, you wall up with NAI reasons for people to be scum. Look at Nahdia, in juxtaposition: Nahdia can explain a scumread on Dwlee in a single sentence and it's clear, concise, and follows. When you explain your scumreads, it's a multi-paragraph endeavor which often boils down to "I don't like this player's shit play" and you don't even really explain

why

the play is objectively shitty. I've led so much discussion and been the originator of tons of alignment-reflective info this game--I was the one who put Drealz to the fire, revealed how they play under pressure and got their claim. I was the one who brought the multiple neighborhood aspect of the game to light. I'm the one who was critical of Aero's claim and provided driving insight both there and on you, in such a way that generated rather generous responses from both. If it's 'scummy' to move the game into action, to have players engaged, on-topic, and producing transparent reads, posts, and arguments, then you better put that goddamn noose around my throat right now. This is my only game on-site. If you want to parrot the Varsoon!Effort = Varsoon!Scum meme, be my guest--I could be dropping these hours into designing FFT mafia, yet another game where I'll put in some 80+ hours of effort (in design alone, not even in running the game) only for chucklefucks to not appreciate it. You act as if this game isn't constantly open on a tab for me. You act as if you aren't incredibly cognizant of the way I approach games and get invested in them. You're pushing every one of my buttons and, yes, it gets to me. It fires me up. It makes me want to suplex things into overdrive.

I have a suspicion we are playing medical mafia btw

I have no clue what medical mafia is. Elaborate? How does this being like that help us?

[Varsoon]

@Gamma:

Spoiler:

@Pieguyn: I'm not taking it personally here, either. Sure, my frustrations and furor are genuine, but all that stuff that you're putting down is water off my back in the grand scheme of things. It's annoying, sure. It doesn't give me anything to really engage with, either. I don't know why you're so dead-set on calling everything I do in this game scum. I push drealz because I have a strong scumread there? You called that out as scum, telling me I'm not focused on anything else. I stop giving drealz pressure because he's clearly dropped out of the thread and not responding to it--instead, I focus on trying to sort out my other reads? You call that busywork and an awkward drop-off of the drealz wagon. I defend and stand by own play after you slam down on me? Oh, it's LAMIST, despite the fact that LAMIST only applies when someone's town-gloating unprompted.

Basically, I don't get it, pie. I don't get why you're so absolutely rigid in seeing everything I do as a scum move. I'm trying to understand. Like, I get why you'd bring up my play in other games, appealing to emotion as scum in a move that, frankly, should've gotten me a 2-week ban; you're trying to say I'm capable of anything as scum. And that's true. But that doesn't make everything that I do a scum move. You want to see the biggest AtE ever dropped on-site? Follow my ISO in Clue Mafia 2--I was town in that game. I'm clearly capable of employing those sorts of appeals as either alignment, and, while, sure, it works sometimes, it often doesn't. It's often borne of my frustration with a game, especially when I'm not seeing eye to eye with other players and no one cares to level with me.

I don't know what you want from me, Pie. I don't know what would constitute good play, in your eyes. I don't know what to say, beyond what I have. I don't think I'm a good player. I try stupid gambits as scum and I'm either too full tilt or distanced as town. If my play being shit is solely what's informing a scum read on me, I'm going to take umbrage with that. A meta argument is something I can understand--if you were to say, "Compare Varsoon's D1 play here to his D1 play in these other games, he's clearly not bringing the same strengths to the table, this is reflective of his scum play," then, yeah, sure, that'd at least be something to grapple with. But I don't see you doing that. You've only brought up my meta, specifically, as of this last page, to call out that I make AtE's as scum. And, hey, here I am, engaging with that and refuting it. The other stuff, though? The stuff about me being shit? The scumpainting of everything I do? I can't really offer anything to that. Maybe that's why you're sticking to that--I can't out and out prove it wrong, as my actions this game are there for everyone to see and judge. It just bothers me that you take this route of pursuit. I just have to accept that you're wrong, and have confidence in what I am doing. That's, really, all I can do.

[Varsoon]

Speaking of Clue, this is reminding me a ton of my interaction with Piratemollie in that game. :/
It's not good for the game.
I'm done engaging on this front, Pie.

[Varsoon]

Read, explained, if you would please.

[Varsoon]

In text written in the form of words that come together as complete sentences, in the game thread, please.

[Varsoon]

I'll make this simple for you.
Here's a list of all the players in the game other than you:
pieguyn
Varsoon
Luna Fox
Gamma Emerald
Nahdia
Wisdom
SirCakez
Aeronaut
beeboy
Dwlee99
pisskop
mhsmith0


Copy that list, paste it into a post, and then next to each player's name, write if you think they are scum, town, or you don't know. Then, in at least one sentence, explain why you are reading them that way.

[Varsoon]

I asked you a question, too.
What are your thoughts on every player in this game, and, if possible, can you, perhaps, posit a stance on said players?

[Varsoon]

You know what would be meaty?
Telling everyone what you think of all the other players in the game, and what informs that thinking.

[Varsoon]

That would be some potential, uh, meat to... slam.

[Varsoon]

I'd love to slap that cake.
You just gotta take it out the oven for us, drealz.

[Varsoon]

You've not seen all my games, then--even the one I linked, Clue II, has me tunneling for a large portion of D1.
We've been over the whole 'exclusion of everything else' thing, too. You insist on it, I've shown and said otherwise.

Regardless, meta a shit.

[Varsoon]

@Pie: 1300 would be an impressive number if this game didn't get 80 pages in 7 days.
But you're right. Anyone can look at my ISO.

[Varsoon]

I've got plenty of justification for it, which I've outlined more than once. Here's the TL;DR - I sat on the scumread I felt good about, said player continued to play in a way that I scumread them for, and I was critical of others and provided and defended reads in that time, too. Furthermore, I was part of two neighborhoods where I was also posting content.

[Varsoon]

You just keep insisting my play during that time was bad, and, now, unjustified. Hm.

[Varsoon]

Vote drealz, pie.

[Varsoon]

Pie, where was I attempting to piledrive lynches through?
Outside of sitting on the Drealz vote for awhile, even in the first 600 posts of mine, I'm explaining my drealz vote when asked, reacting to drealz when confronted, providing reads, and engaging with other players.

I think you just said something stupid/wrong and now you're insisting it's a fact.

Like I said, anyone can look at my ISO.

I also agree, this isn't a convo we need to continue--we keep butting heads because we're both on fundamentally opposite sides of it.

[Varsoon]

I am off the fences.

[Varsoon]

You know what would be meaty?
Telling everyone what you think of all the other players in the game, and what informs that thinking.

No time like today, drealz.
What are your thoughts?

[Varsoon]

Why isn't drealz lynched yet, though?

[Varsoon]

So, I'm scum no matter what Drealz flips.
Got it, bby.

[Varsoon]

V/LA until 12/6.

[Varsoon]

Well, pisskop, your vote's on Beefy right now.

[Varsoon]

Not gonna happen, given the info we've got as of now.
I'm sticking to Drealz unless something massive happens.

[Varsoon]

Honestly, the fact that the Drealz wagon has hit L-1 and diffused, what, three times now?
Nonsense.
The first time, at least he had a drawn out, poorly handled claim, but that claim was hardly a town claim.
These last times, though, nothing outside of the trite we've already gotten. No readslist, no insightful content, not even the will to engage with the game.
It's as if Drealz has completely shut down, but things are just stalling out for no good reason.

Stay the course.

[Varsoon]

I think it's only at 5 votes as of now.

[Varsoon]

2000 GET

[Varsoon]

I'm pretty sure pie is town for mediating that beeboy/Luna shit

Everyone and their mother (with exception of drealz, notably) tried to mitigate the beeboy/Luna shit.
Wouldn't be surprised if scum wasn't in there trying to look like a contributor to a better townstate.
Not saying it's Pie, just saying that the act of trying to calm that down is probably NAI.

[Varsoon]

Nope.
Standing by my decisions and judgment.
I believe in this.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Drealz


@Gif: You keep saying I did nothing but wagon Drealz in the first 50 pages of the game, but that's blatantly untrue. Again, anyone can look at my ISO. On top of that, I'm in TWO neighborhoods that I was posting in--both parties can confirm this. On top of that, the first 50 pages of this game happened within, what, four days? It's okay that you're literally wrong, though. I'm cool with that. You said something provably false and you're sticking to it and making it a bigger deal than it is. That's fine.

I appreciate that you're willing to compromise onto Drealz rather than sitting on my wagon unflinchingly. Shows that, at least, you practice what you preach, which indicates that this approach is NAI.

[Varsoon]

D'oh.
Meant @Pie:
BUT THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON

[Varsoon]

Town really doesn't deserve a W when they lynch everyone but the IC and claimed backup IC.
But ayyy
Well done, Nahdia.
Good stuff on fighting out to the end, Pisskop.
I played like trash.
Sorry, guys.

[Varsoon]

<3
GiF
Whatever grievances I have with the setup are passing things
As always, I enjoy your games and follow them 'till the end.

[Varsoon]

Ayyy
No hard feelings, drealmerz.
I'm still not a fan of your approach, but those sorts of tensions are game-oriented alone and something I can move forward from.