In post 2891, Shadow_step wrote:Also, playing with clueless newbies like nn isn't really thrilling either.
That was always my assumption and why I didn't give it serious consideration until today. CC'ing ascetic is incredibly ballsy. The only way it's possible is through scum making gratuitous use of daychat.In post 3153, nn30 wrote:If Shadow was scum, he likes to fly pretty close to the sun.
Was one of my first thoughts but it was strange to me that he had such a high ego after basically never being right. Despite his statements about "having LUV" he never voted him outside of RVS and boring had yet to flip. His ego made no sense to begin with.In post 3153, nn30 wrote:Also, his actually subbing out would never happen if he was scum.
It's my telling you how to get my vote. I know that you can make the logical connection that voting me is a possibility, but why on earth would I encourage you to? I'm not going to let you bark up the wrong tree all day if it's not going to convince me of anything if you're town, it's not a game of "Keep Away"
I said it removed all doubt because I was confident it was Dierfire and anyone who reads my yesterday can see that. When it's not Dierfire, that means that yes, I do have to backtrack, because one of my townreads was completely wrong. Me being wrong doesn't mean it's time to scumread myself. This doesn't work as a defense in my favor because it's something I could do as scum too, but it's very clear that I had to know ahead of time that I would be forced to backtrack on one of these reads were I scum.In post 3153, nn30 wrote:He's apparently forgotten 2927, too.
Every death since N1 has been a PR. When did I mastermind time to keep you alive? I could have pushed you in earlier days for a lynch but I didn't because again, you've been a hard townread. At some point I'm going to have to walk back one of the townreads on you/BV if I'm scum. In that scenario this three way was decided eons ago and I've had weeks to plan it. Hard townreading anyone is a dangerous game, because of cases like this, and because of me being forced by way of being dead wrong to reconsider statements I made with certainty day/days ago.In post 3153, nn30 wrote:@BV - I think we've been scum reading each other incorrectly. I think that I'm still alive because I'm a bit of a VI (meh...) - Prism felt he could manipulate me with a hard town read on me.
I understand why even if it's not my favorite, I'm not disputing that it's a valid read.In post 3152, BlackVoid wrote:Regarding your replace out, everyone wants to be townread for their awesome play and not because of some silly reason like saying they replaced out. But when something like that happens, as town I can't ignore it. I really don't think that if you and Boring were the scumteam and Shadow kept insisting that you be lynched back to back (even if he was a little overconfident about it), I think you'd find some way to wiggle out of it rather than decide to replace out because you got caught. But as town, I could see you in the heat of the moment thinking "that's it, I'm done with this guy" and post a replace out request.
I realize you haven't retracted it-I'm stating why I don't townread you as strongly as I did towards the end of yesterday. You can wind up retracting your townread on me and still wind up town, and you can wind up keeping it and still be scum. My problem with your prior post is that it seemed to forget that the first part of this was true, ie. you should expect to find the reread scummy FYPOV. I'm wary of basically recycling your old reasoning but now saying "Oh yeah but it overpowers the replace out attempt now" (whereas before it was the opposite). This is all speculative on my end-the point is that I townread you for it before, but now I'm the one walking it back.In post 3152, BlackVoid wrote:As far as your play, Prism, while I was reading the thread as a spectator, I thought you were probably scum. I stopped reading closely somewhere near the end of D1. I remember second-guessing my original Boring-Prism-LUV scumteam guess when I saw you and Boring pushing LUV together. I wondered if he might be town being pushed by scum but he flipped scum. Boring was a very strong scumread so that remained but I wasn't sure if you were scum or if someone I was townreading was but I felt that I was most likely wrong in my initial guess. I wasn't writing everything down because I thought I might not get a chance to play because of how active everyone was.
It's not about posting an "easily retractable reason" and then rescinding it. Honestly, as scum I wouldn't even have bothered mentioning that. I haven't actually rescinded my townread on you. My feeling is still the same. The only reason I'm reading the thread is that this is 3-way lylo and it would be irresponsible to vote without thoroughly considering the possibility of you being scum.
In post 3157, Prism wrote:Really not doing wonders for my paranoia that your townread on me was just pingponging it back to me.
In post 2891, Shadow_step wrote:Also, playing with clueless newbies like nn isn't really thrilling either.
That post wasn't just vetting me, it was a complete flip.In post 3161, nn30 wrote:If you're town - you have to understand that it is in both of our best interests to sufficiently vet one another.
It's again me telling you that I think you've been reflecting my own read/reasoning on you back to me, and that I want more. I've said it 3x now.In post 3161, nn30 wrote:If you're scum - this vague 'quit scum reading me or else' threat isn't going to work.
In post 3163, nn30 wrote:In post 2891, Shadow_step wrote:Also, playing with clueless newbies like nn isn't really thrilling either.
@BV
The above quote is the strongest reason I have to believe you're town. It's so strong that I back-tracked on my Prism town read due to it.
1) Do you feel that my reading of this quote is accurate? Why or why not?
2) If you think the above quote is a good reason to town read you, the onus is on me to earn a town read from you. I obviously have my work cut out.
For the moment I'm still interested in why you were scum reading Prism before you entered the game - I'd like to talk about that.
In post 3166, Prism wrote:To flip this back, if you're town, you're not realizing that my vote is not a given in your favor. That post didn't even try to consider me as town, which is weird as fuck for someone who supposedly shared my sentiment that you had to be town.
In post 3166, Prism wrote:To flip this back, if you're town, you're not realizing that my vote is not a given in your favor. That post didn't even try to consider me as town, which is weird as fuck for someone who supposedly shared my sentiment that you had to be town.
I disagree strongly on the Shadow replace out point. I didn't really think that much of it until nn brought it up but after chewing on it for the past few days it makes less and less sense for me as for why he replaced out if he were town.In post 3165, BlackVoid wrote:I actually agree that I don't think Shadow would have been frustrated in quite the same manner if he were scum. I wouldn't say it's the strongest reason I've townread him. It's his general demeanor and high confidence as well as how hard and how genuinely he pushed that Eager lynch that I found most town when I didn't know his alignment.
Some highlights of Shadow's humble play:In post 2890, Shadow_step wrote:I can't take this constant misrep and insult of my play when I'm not being arrgant or cocky at all. I can't help it if people perceive it that way.
In post 2748, Shadow_step wrote:Don't want to start a dick measuring contest, but I'm better than you at Mafia. And nowhere near useless as shit. Get your head out of your ass.
And the post nn keeps referring to, coming right after explaining how he hasn't been arrogant at all all game:In post 2882, Shadow_step wrote::facepalm:![]()
Why are you so horrible at seeing the obvious.
Gawd I hate newbies.
There was again 0 reason for him to ever be this arrogant as town. He never voted or led on mafia, being on town wagon after town wagon. He spent the whole game tunneling nn, taking eons to switch.In post 2891, Shadow_step wrote:Also, playing with clueless newbies like nn isn't really thrilling either.
I can't remember exactly what it was that pinged me on Implosion because it was so long ago but in general I'm very wary of making sense as being a towntell. Implosion was noticeably competent, and a lot of his posts were reaching vastly different conclusions from my own or making distinctions that I didn't agree with. The one that I most remember is that he scumread someone for inconsistency even when that inconsistency was much more likely from a town perspective-and later he affirmed that inconsistency itself wasn't a scumtell. He was rational and is good at the game, but neither of those decided his role PM, and everyone else was giving him largely a free pass for those things.In post 3165, BlackVoid wrote:My scumread on Prism was based mostly off of his Implosion push. Contrary to most of the game, I thought Implosion was not only town but one of the few voices of sanity that was making sense in a chaotic game. I looked at any case on him negatively and at some points, even wondered if Zoronos was hamming it on pointlessly complaining about Implosion writing words but not saying much - when in reality, he was saying a lot of good stuff.
This isn't consistent with what you said when you first replaced in:In post 3165, BlackVoid wrote:But most people had other reasons for me thinking they were town. Prism didn't have that. He replaced into a lurky slot and made pushes I didn't like D1. D2, he started making a lot more sense. The LUV push was what eroded my scumfeels for him.
Your reaction to nn is what I expect out of you as both alignments.In post 2899, BlackVoid wrote:I was scumreading Prism all the way up until he said he was going to replace out. I don't think scum would ever do that out of frustration from being caught. It's just poor sportsmanship especially if Shadow had called the scumteam. I get that this may be a controversial reason to have a read but Prism's almost replacing out pretty much confirms him as town for me. But I'm making a note to ISO him just to be sure.