Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

Yep.

[PenguinPower]

My scum team right now is Thor/karnos/Lowell.

Peace.

[PenguinPower]

I'm here. Briefly, since I'm running to a meeting (and am old). I agree with Math's 1550 in response to penguin's "why would I do this" post, for the reasons he stated. After that we can sort it out, but I'm relatively sure iron and saru are town. I lean town on bji, and I'm not quite seeing the nero case yet. My guess is the other is Karnos. I'll check in on this once more this evening if I can, and then tomorrow.

VOTE: penguin

Wait...you think both me and karnos are scum?

Seriously?

[PenguinPower]

Penguin might say "well maybe the scum just happened to kill arona by coincidence" to which I would reply...no.

^
Calling this out for endgame.

Either this is what happened, scum have an investigative PR, or what I mentioned earlier happened.

[PenguinPower]

Yes, arguably so because I need to be die for it to work and I want to stay in the game

K, I'm still new and all, but I checked the wiki for normal roles and didn't see anything that requires one to die (except for bodyguard, but that's not what you are alluding to) for the role to activate.

[PenguinPower]

Wiki says that some Enabler's affect scum roles when killed. Pretty sure you linked that.

[PenguinPower]

Spoiler: For everyone except Penguin

Iron, I think it makes sense to come out, but I don't really care. I just think it might be beneficial for town to be united, I think this back and forth between you and MathBlade is not terrible constructive.

Yeah I don't get this line of thinking. Iron is doubling down on his town claim by adding a role claim. If you believe he's town, you'll likely believe his claim and knowing his exact role doesn't really add anything. If you don't believe he's town, you wouldn't believe his role claim anyway. If you are unsure about Iron, then allowing a town claim, which can be made up by scum or town alike, to sway you either way is not very sound thinking.

Therefore I do not see any benefit in asking Iron to claim his role. If and when he thinks claiming is role is most beneficial, he will do so. If he's town, let's hope that he does it right. If he's scum, let's hope that it makes no sense and gets him lynched. Every fake role claim I've ever seen has completely backfired and screwed the player making the claim, and I've seen both town and scum do it.

For Penguin:

I don't think Iron should claim his role.

Well done, bji.

[PenguinPower]

Fair enough. Iron should claim.

[PenguinPower]

Here comes karnos setting up the two mislynches needed for a scum win! Great job, karnos!

[PenguinPower]

How on earth would I be setting up 2 miss-lynches? If we lynch you and you come back town, do you think anyone is going to be listening to me tomorrow?

Maybe not you, but there are two of you left.

[PenguinPower]

Town

MathBlade

ironstove
bji

Saru
Lowell

Nero Cain

PenguinPower

Scum

GAH! I'm the scummiest and you took your vote off me! I don't get you.

[PenguinPower]

Town

MathBlade

ironstove
Nero Cain

bji
Saru

Lowell

karnos

Scum

[PenguinPower]

Oops...sorry about that.

[PenguinPower]

Oh, and just want to recall this from karnos:

Sharing town reads gives scum a road map to victory.

That is dead wrong. I shared full reads lists, had multiple "scum" reads, confirmed town as confirmed town etc. And I was scum, that is the one thing you do remember correctly.

And as scum, I won because town sharing full reads gave us an easy path to victory, we just killed the people who scum read us the most and kept town alive who had poor reads.

Now, he did say he looked forward to providing his full read list eventually, but he was going to wait to do that to find the last scum by POE. We still have two scum...so, yeah.

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin: Are you town reading Nero for any reason other than just to disagree with those who are scum reading you?

Yes. I don't think Nero would have tried to start a counterwagon as scum unless Saru was also scum (meaning I'm wrong about karnos, which I doubt). I don't think that all three scum would be on mal's mislynch D1, and Thor and karnos were on it, with karnos being the last to join. I don't think that two scum would be pushing for bji on D2. I think scum!Nero would have wanted to hop on Thor's obvious lynch D3 for towncred.

Sure, I could be completely wrong, but I don't think so.

[PenguinPower]

Tinfoily speculation: maybe Nero isn't actually scum, while Penguin is. Penguin thinks that by defending Nero hard, we will lynch Nero tomorrow after Penguin flips red today, and give Penguin's actual partner an extra chance to win.

I'm not defending Nero hard. He just doesn't work as scum with how I'm reading the game right now.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin if karnos is town who do you think is the remaining scum and why?

Nero and Saru. It would explain what Nero pushed the counter wagon D1, and why Saru wasn't on it. It would help explain the no lynch D2. They have rarely been voting the same person outside of D1 start.

[PenguinPower]

Ugh...my brain hurts now.

[PenguinPower]

I agree. Now would you please be willing to vote Nero so we can progress the game?

That would involve me believing that karnos is town. That's hard for me to do right now.

[PenguinPower]

And this is all because I voted an IC, before the IC was mod confirmed?

No, but it does rely solely on tone and previous experience; and, requires much more complexity of action than in the case of Nero/Saru.

Fuck it. If you're scum, I'll let you have this one.

UNVOTE:

[PenguinPower]

I still think math's case on penguin nails it, and I don't see anything he's done in response as town.

It is a dumb case. As scum, I would want to keep aron alive since he townread me, FA townread me, so everyone that aron added to the neighborhood could more easily be convinced that I was town. What did I gain by killing him? Oh, that's right, my current situation.

Dumb case is dumb.

Even if you buy his argument that the aron death was random, his attitude change today has been a 180.

Please point out said attitude change.

Either karnos or penguin or

both are scum

.

Bolded for emphasis: I think this might be the dumbest thing you've said.

[PenguinPower]

Ok. If it's not karnos, it has to be Nero.

VOTE: Nero

[PenguinPower]

Except that entire list changes with karnos not being scum. You should read my posts since.

[PenguinPower]

Basically, Nero moves to the bottom, Saru right after that and then Lowell, karnos, bji, and iron.

[PenguinPower]

Still with attacking Lowell. Then naked vote of Nero.

If you weren't the IC, I'd be seeing scum. That wasn't an attack on Lowell, that was a defense for me from his post. That wasn't a naked vote on Nero, I explained why I thought Nero was scum if karnos wasn't scum in previous posts. Please start reading before writing. It's the responsible thing to do.

[PenguinPower]

Which list do you believe in more. What you posted or assuming Karnos is town?

You are really killing my confidence that you are actually paying attention to this game.

[PenguinPower]

Then you missed the comment on my scum read on karnos relying of tone, previous experience, and complex actions. K. Cool. Thanks.

[PenguinPower]

Explain to me why you are reading Karnos as town.

I read karnos as not scum based on what I previously said. If karnos is not scum, then what I said about Nero/Saru must hold true. Thus, I vote Nero.

[PenguinPower]

WTF? I'm saying that the only reason I scum read him was because of meta. So, I'm discounting that, and I have two stronger scum targets which I explained. Like, seriously...wtf?

[PenguinPower]

No - hint, those would be complex actions.

You're being dumb, and if you want to lose this game because your initial reason for me being scum was dumb, and you're going to be dense now, then I am - once again - lay it all on you for being dumb.

[PenguinPower]

There should be the words "going to" before "lay" above.

[PenguinPower]

Why do you think Karnos is town?

Again, I DON'T THINK KARNOS IS SCUM. There, that should call it out for you. I don't think this because THE ONLY REASON I DID WAS BECAUSE OF META, HIS TONE, AND THE WHOLE COMPLEX BUSSING/HAMMER THING THAT I REFERRED TO EARLIER. I READ NERO/SARU AS SCUM BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING I SAID IN THE PRECEDING POSTS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THEM.

Ahh...ok. Now that I answered your question, let's break it on down now:

If either you or ironstove are town that is not the way to have a healthy site going forward. Let's assume my intelligence is that of a rock. The appropriate thing to do is explain it in further detail. Not insult the player suggesting you are scum for it.

I actually find it quite offensive that you can dictate what is/is not healthy for the site. There are many different play styles across the various players on this site, and for you to call one out as "unhealthy" to the site is an attack on character.

Furthermore I will be dying tonight so "laying it all down on me" would be ridiculous as I would be dead.

Um, yeah, maybe...I was previously an IC (funnily enough, in a game where karnos was scum) and made it to endgame. You don't know scum motivations.

As I told ironstove earlier I don't respond to threats or insults.

And, yet you are.

While you believe you have adequately answered the question I however do not.

Don't give a flying flip.

You have said the only reason you scumread Karnos was meta.
Actions Karnos have not taken are not "meta".
You scum read him for the quick hammer. Assuming it is a "complex" action (which typing a vote is not complex) it does not qualify as meta.

I said I scum read him for tone, past experience ("meta"), and complex actions. You're being pedantic.

Therefore you are in my opinion contradicting yourself.

Don't give a flying flip about your opinion.

So explain it again to me. Why do you think Karnos is town?

See above.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry, bji. I was a hypocrite.

[PenguinPower]

Pedanticness is not a word. Keep trying to sound smart.

I'm not deliberately lying. Flip me a find out how wrong you are.

As I said to karnos in the neighborhood thread, I'm about to go IS rage on you.

[PenguinPower]

Although, I kind of did a little already.

[PenguinPower]

So, you're conf!town. Great. Stop trying to lead town like you are an awesome scumhunter/townfinder. You're not. At this point, you are confirmation of one less scum, and one less town. So triggering me.

[PenguinPower]

EBWOP: One more town.

[PenguinPower]

K. What I've said is what you're getting. Make your decision based on that.

[PenguinPower]

See my above post^^^^

[PenguinPower]

Holy crap, that was all bad.

However Penguin was the one who was caught deliberately lying about the state of the policy lynch 1089 This would make bji the counter wagon for Thor and make him town.

Explains this specifically, because that post had nothing to do with me, and you're calling me out for a "deliberate lie."

[PenguinPower]

And, for fucks sake, vote me already if you're going to be that bad.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin Power + Lowell
Saru + Penguin Power
Saru + ironstove
Karnos + ironstove

Hard town reading : bji, Nero
Light town read: ironstove
Waffle House: Karnos
Light scum read: Saru (by night actions only by posts he seems townie)
The likely scum team: Penguin Power + Lowell

This why ICs who think they are awesome are bad. None of these teams make sense...except IS and karnos in a far-off-land world.

Reads suck too.

[PenguinPower]

Nero said it wasn't a policy and it was but it was specifically directed towards you as well

That wasn't directed to me at all. His spoiler title was in reference to my earlier complaint about a wall...he's been doing it ever since...have you not noticed that? Show me my lie.

Dense-man is dense.

[PenguinPower]

I've already explained. I'm not going to do it over again.

[PenguinPower]

Whatever...after the past two days on nonsense, if town listens to you at all we deserve to lose.

[PenguinPower]

on = of

[PenguinPower]

PP's "case" that requires Karnos to be town and Saru to be scum is silly by itself but if he actually believed that he'd be voting Karnos.

Why?

[PenguinPower]

^
Lulz.

If you flip town, I would tunnel karnos until either he or I were dead.

[PenguinPower]

Ugh...so bad. I'm getting strong desires to self-hammer here.

[PenguinPower]

Like, just so MB doesn't get his "hammers."

[PenguinPower]

Please, someone else hammer me so that dense-man doesn't get to.

[PenguinPower]

Because it really annoys me that MB is all "I has hammers," and the vindictive side of me would love nothing more to deny that from him

[PenguinPower]

^
Yep. This is scum.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah, except I explained why the change. Do you people even read? Someone just hammer me so we can move on.

[PenguinPower]

Whatevs. You're probably scum (purely gut right now), but it doesn't make as much sense as Nero being scum. As I've said.

Nothing is going to stop my lynch, so someone just do it already.

[PenguinPower]

You really think that both of the wagons are on scum? That's just dumb.

[PenguinPower]

Or do you also think both scum are voting on the town wagon?

*DING DING DING*

Considering I think it's Nero/Saru right now, and they are both on me.

[PenguinPower]

idk how everyone is town reading nero, he's really fucking scummy.

Only I am which makes him a mislynch.

We'll, that's not true. His scum buddy is too.

[PenguinPower]

Surely not Saru who said they were scum reading Nero.

So what team are you floating now?

No, I was. His list was backwards from everyone else's, but I see the qualifier following now.

[PenguinPower]

prodge, weekends are bad. still would prefer penguin, but will catch up.

No you won't. You should probably replace out.

[PenguinPower]

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.

You probably should to, but lurking is a valid scum tactic which you appear to be utilizing.

If you're town, replace out.

[PenguinPower]

Your tunnel vision will be the death of town. Ugh..I'm actually willing to do this. Sum up your case on me and I will respond as to why it's crap.

[PenguinPower]

It hurts my head to keep trying to figure out which one is more scummy.

Let me help you out a little. It's not me.

[PenguinPower]

If PP had a solid town read on you for "tunneling Thor" why do you think he voted you at the beginning of the day?

Um...so, I didn't vote D4 until after the IC claim. Karnos had been having discussions in the neighborhood prior to my initial scum read (which was based on some of what he said in that thread), and I was going to vote you after a while, until said IC claim.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry, it was MathBlade/Lowell with a possibility of you.

[PenguinPower]

I didn't call you town...I had you in the non-scummy section of my reads. That was only because I thought karnos was scum. If karnos isn't scum, you have to be.

[PenguinPower]

Except that the only pair that makes since if karnos is town is Nero/Saru. Off chance Lowell.

POE is good enough for me.

[PenguinPower]

Like, you literally called out the post that started to make me scum read you.

[PenguinPower]

The fact that you think karnos/me is a possible scum team is like....where's my Jackie Chan GIF?

[PenguinPower]

Not impossible. Improbable. Just like karnos being scum with Thor.

It could be...but it doesn't make sense.

[PenguinPower]

Ok, MB....lulz

I've explained my case on scum!Nero/Thor/Saru already. Not doing it again.

[PenguinPower]

ISO is a nice feature.

[PenguinPower]

...wtf

[PenguinPower]

Seriously. Scum.

[PenguinPower]

So..MB...while I'm liking that..I'm just wondering...what went on in your head?

[PenguinPower]

She got all pissy that I said her slot voted someone she didn't vote.

[PenguinPower]

As I said, if you flip town, I will tunnel karnos.

[PenguinPower]

feel free to bus but you still need rope the next day.

Tro-lo-lo-loling twilight.

[PenguinPower]

He was only a conf!town to those in the neighborhood.

Love me some twighlight Lowell. Pretty sure you're the last scum now.

[PenguinPower]

Also, thanks for waiting to catch up until after the lynch. Well played.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: karnos

[PenguinPower]

Let's not let this obvious scum get away again.

Not obvscum as has been pointed out. Guessing you're likely the last scum at this point.

[PenguinPower]

Yeah. The guy who died during the night did.

You're being so bad-obvious scum right now. Lurk the entire game - I mean who has less posts than vote counts - then start participating in Lylo pushing an easy mislynch.

[PenguinPower]

lulz...you think you've been making quality posts. How many of those "quality" posts did you make outside of D2?

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.

Top-notch quality right there.

I didn't respond to you calling me scum, because I already responded to the shit logic that you're using to base your claim on.

[PenguinPower]

And your case on me is the herpidie derpidie dumb "Aron was killed so PP has to be scum" case.

My turn to do that:

Arona tunneled me pretty much the entire game and scum would love nothing but town tunneling town, so no reason to kill him off other than they knew he was a PR.

And scum!Saru would want to get town tunneling scum out of the game! Bonus to be able to push a mislynch following. What luck!

[PenguinPower]

And, herpidie dee Moron Mcgee, I've had you in my scum lean pool well before you called me scum.

[PenguinPower]

Bee-tee-dubs...that's your new name for the rest of this game. I'll call you MM for short.

[PenguinPower]

Except you miss the part where arona had basically 0 influence. No one agreed with arona about me on the day before she was killed. Why kill someone whose tunnel wasn't even working? Your logic is faulty.

Um...because if they keep pushing it, eventually people will join. Why not get rid of that attention, MM?

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Saru

If town's going to lose, I'd rather go out trying to lynch herp derp here than karnos.

[PenguinPower]

Ah, name-calling, what scum resorts to when they can't counter your arguments.

Or, town triggered by scum who use the words "herp derp."

[PenguinPower]

After this, I'm done interacting with your MM-ass. Town can make their own decisions, but I'm done with you.

I've already explained why scum being in the neighborhood is a good thing, so scum!me wouldn't want to kill off arona. As karnos can confirm, arona was suspecting people that would help scum!me, so again, I wouldn't want to kill him off. Arona thought I was town, and that would be good for scum!me.

What you, and everyone else, are discounting is the possibility of an investigative scum role (e.g. Neapolitan) that would just have returned that arona wasn't vanilla. Scum wouldn't know he was a neighborizer, just a PR. That would make scum want to kill him off. Or, as I said above - and you are trying to brush aside - is the fact that arona continuing the tunnel would be bad for you.

The "arona died, PP is scum" case is weaker than "arona died because he was tunneling Saru," because the former is a net loss for scum, while the latter is a net gain. If town lynches me based on the "arona died" argument then they deserve to lose.

Peace, MM.

[PenguinPower]

@PP @Saru Please unvote this is MyLO. Assume you are right about your first person who is their partner?

Wtf about 5 town roles? So the question becomes did scum target me or stove?

Meh...it takes 4 to lynch. Scum can't run this up for the win.

UNVOTE:

Scum targeted ironstove. He already said he didn't want to use his power because he didn't want to leave the game. Sara and karnos killed him because he would have resisted my mislynch today, while you wouldn't.

[PenguinPower]

person's

I did, actually, answer this question. So, um, yeah. Moving on.

[PenguinPower]

Eh...don't know what happened there.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Lowell

[PenguinPower]

Nah. It's pretty simple. FMPOV it's you/Saru or Saru/karnos. Saru/karnos requires massive bussing from all scum throughout the game, with a risky D2 play. If they did that, gg. However, looking at the same end of day VCs, you and Saru make more sense. D1 you end up on Saru with only one other person/Saru on Thor with one other - weak bus - and town gets lynched with one scum on. D2 Saru ends up on you with only one other. No scum on Thor, push into no lynch. D3 doesn't matter since Thor was the obv!lynch. D4, both you and Saru park on an easy mislynch for the day and are content to let town rip each other apart while you lurk. D5, you both show back up.

Nah. It's more likely you and Saru.

[PenguinPower]

Can we get this going please? MB isn't going to vote until he "has hammers," and I'm not responding to any inane drivel that Saru posts. So, if karnos or bji have any questions/reservations/accusations/etc let's get those out and move on. Please don't drag this out for 8 more days.

[PenguinPower]

So......yeah. What's up, all? We going to chill until deadline?

[PenguinPower]

Um...I'm committed to Lowell at this point. Saru and I aren't going to yield anything productive from each other. You and bji are basically conf!town. karnos is town by poe. Not quite sure what you want me to hunt here.

[PenguinPower]

Basically you and bji need to decide what you want to do, communicate it, and let's get moving.

[PenguinPower]

What are you referring to when you say Lowell put in the effort to get Saru lynched?

[PenguinPower]

Yeah. I'm not seeing it. If it's Saru/Lowell/Thor and Saru and Thor were up on the chopping block, and we know that Thor was a PR, then why wouldn't scum!Lowell push for Saru?

[PenguinPower]

Ok...I re-read and I only see Lowell voting Saru twice this whole game. First time he put Saru at L-1 when the counterwagon was FA. Second time, he parked the first vote on Saru when there was one vote on Nero and one on arona. So....what are you talking about? All his "effort" to get Saru lynched was weak pushing, and he used the dissolving of the Saru wagon D1 to push for - what we later learn was the IC - lynch.

I've bussed my scumbuddy a lot harder than that in previous games. So...I'm not seeing how it eliminates the possibility.

[PenguinPower]

<----ready for the day to end.

Everything I have left to discuss is dependent on a scum!Lowell flip, so...yeah. Let's get to it.

[PenguinPower]

I am really cute. But in keeping with my vow, I'm not responding to your crap. At least not today...kinda have to tomorrow. Peace, MM.

- The Really Cute Penguin

[PenguinPower]

It is.

[PenguinPower]

gogogogogo

[PenguinPower]

THANK GOD!

[PenguinPower]

I'm glad we finally got through this day.

[PenguinPower]

Nope.

[PenguinPower]

Always a great idea to throw down a vote in MyLo before discussion. Sara is totes scum.

I would, however, like to debate the idea of a no lynch today. 95% chance that means bji dies tonight, but it at least gets that 5% chance out of the way that he's been playing us all.

[PenguinPower]

Just FYI, since I'm responding to Saru today...Your comment on me defending Thor making me scum...I have never once, as scum, defended any of my partners. Ever. I have only ever hard bussed them, except for the one newbie I replaced in (karnos was town in that one). Still didn't defend my buddy, just didn't bus.

Feel free to meta me - which town should do if town doesn't want to lose.

[PenguinPower]

Well, if you aren't going to, go ahead and lynch me so the game can be over. Please don't drag this day out.

Still think we should no lynch today.

[PenguinPower]

100% confident Saru is scum now.

I'm done, and quite honestly nothing I say will make a difference at this point. karnos and bji can decide what to do.

Saru is blacklisted for me. Totally an not-fun game when this guy posts.

VOTE: Saru

[PenguinPower]

Has nothing to do with how he plays re: alignment. Has everything to do with his post style making me want to rage quit. I find that unejoyable and do not want to play in future games with him. I'd replace out if we weren't on the last day. Game was nice when he was lurking.

[PenguinPower]

Penguin: what happened to wanting to lynch bji? When did your read of him change?

When Thor flipped scum. Sorry I had a strong townread on Thor until the bad fake claim...he's one player that I really struggle with given our first game together, and my inability to play emotionlessly. That's also why I struggle - as town - in games with you given my lack of ability to play solely on logic. Even now, I'm not 100% confident that you aren't the last scum...just more confident in Saru.

Also, I don't see why 1289 and 1324 are bad from a town!penguin point of view if Thor is a strong townread. Your comment about me voting you simply because you hammered Thor is disingenuous and has been explained in this thread.

[PenguinPower]

karnos...vote me and get it over with please.

[PenguinPower]

Not me.

[PenguinPower]

Although, even if I was scum, I would totally troll twilight.

[PenguinPower]

Told you we should no lynch.

[PenguinPower]

Soon glad this is over though.

[PenguinPower]

Congrats to scum. Saru is on my blacklist.

[PenguinPower]

Love how autocorrect makes "soooo" soon.

[PenguinPower]

So I guess you are confident that Saru is not scum? Because if he is then he shouldn't be on your blacklist, because he did what he was supposed to do to win the game.

Nah, he's on my blacklist because his post style triggers me, as I said before. Don't care about his alignment.

[PenguinPower]

I felt a little triggered around 1253.

K. Blacklist me then.

[PenguinPower]

Also I've seen so much worse than anything that happened in this game, I felt like everyone was pretty good with the emotions. I have seen such awful stuff between players, I liked how everyone kept everything mostly above board. Iron went off the deep end a couple of times, but for some reason I found it more amusing than anything else ..

I can't explain it...I've played with Transcend and I'm fine with that...it started around the herp derp crap (which I can't stand). Yeah...I'm going overboard and blacklist isn't the proper thing to say, but he pissed me the f off this game. Alignment be damned.

[PenguinPower]

Is it possible to blacklist players? As in, do something to prevent being put in a game with them or something?

I wouldn't blacklist you even if there was though.

There's only one player I'd blacklist, and he wasn't in this game anyway.

LMAO. Thanks. Congrats.

[PenguinPower]

Eh? That's not the post I quoted...

[PenguinPower]

Actually ... just because I like you Penguin ... one final spoiler for you:

Spoiler: Especially for Penguin

I win.

Yep. Great game scum.

[PenguinPower]

WTF is going on with the quoting?

[PenguinPower]

That's a first for me.

[PenguinPower]

Really wish we had pursued the no lynch, though I still would probably have ended up lynched.

[PenguinPower]

FYI, you can hit the "PM" button to quote from locked threads.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: karnos

Totes scum.

Could this be the game where we both rolled the same alignment? I feel like it's due, but randomness can be funny.

YES! The argument is no longer valid. Maybe I can start to move on.

[PenguinPower]

Nah, I overreacted, Saru. Emotion is something I need to work on getting out of the game. Sorry.