Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)


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Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:30 pm

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: HellloooNewman

The only acceptable vote.
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Post Post #47 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:21 pm

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: CloudKicker
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Post Post #89 (isolation #2) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:45 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 80, MiniDeathStar wrote:Anddd my reads are being sheeped again. Lovely.

Like please think for yourselves once in a while guys.
I'm not sheeping your read. CK's response to your accusation was grade a bullshit.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #3) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:44 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 90, CloudKicker wrote:Congratz on not being able to read into a town rxn
Everything you've said could have easily come from scum, nice try.
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Post Post #102 (isolation #4) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:50 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 97, CloudKicker wrote:
In post 23, Kairal wrote:
In post 16, CloudKicker wrote:Lets start off by being a bit scummy or i wont get pushed by scum

Original Roll String: 1d9 (STATIC)
1 9-Sided Dice: (6) = 6


VOTE: Io

hello old neighbor
I assume Cloudkicker's d9 thing is just part of 'deliberately looking scummy'.
Or is it a genuine slip?
Would we typically expect 4 scum in this game size?
there
He's speculating about a
scum
slip there, not a townslip.

As in, knowledge of the scum team size.

Now who's the one with reading comprehension issues, sport?
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Post Post #104 (isolation #5) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:58 am

Post by -Grey- »

Cloud scum flip will make me very interested in AJ.
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Post Post #106 (isolation #6) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:02 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 105, Aj The Epic wrote:I'd hope your interest would involve you posting some actual substance.
What kind of substance?

Like pointing out how you were just coaching your buddy a couple posts up and chainsawing me to distract town from voting him because you think I'm an easy target?

That kind of substance?
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Post Post #109 (isolation #7) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:29 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 107, Aj The Epic wrote:You've confirmbiased the game already.
Only town can confbias. You are talking to me like you know I'm town even though you're voting for me.

That only strengthens my scumread on you.
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Post Post #110 (isolation #8) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:33 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 108, massive wrote:
In post 104, -Grey- wrote:Cloud scum flip will make me very interested in AJ.
I'd say we just go ahead and get interested in AJ without worrying about a flip.
Why? I actually like the point Mini raised against CK, and him leaning on a scumslip allegation as his defense just shows how desperate he is to avoid being wagoned.

I agree that AJ looks scummy as hell in his recent posts, but I still want CK today.
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Post Post #116 (isolation #9) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:48 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 112, Aj The Epic wrote:However Confbias can absolutely come from scum (they know the roles from the getgo).
Scum cannot confbias a scumread, which is what you were accusing me of.

Hair splitting and doubling down does nothing to make me townread you.
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Post Post #117 (isolation #10) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:54 am

Post by -Grey- »

Ah fuck it. Cloud might actually be town.

VOTE: AJ

No way do I see him flipping green though.
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Post Post #120 (isolation #11) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:43 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 95, massive wrote:Oops forgot my random not-actually-random vote!

VOTE: Kairal
Wtf are you doing?
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Post Post #191 (isolation #12) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:42 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 190, Io wrote:
In post 187, Aj The Epic wrote:Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.
Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.
No there's not, but there
is
a difference between
concurring
and sheeping.
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Post Post #202 (isolation #13) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:12 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 192, Aj The Epic wrote:That's some semantics I really could care less for.
If you could care less, that means you care.

So... I concur.
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Post Post #203 (isolation #14) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:13 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 193, Io wrote:
In post 191, -Grey- wrote:
In post 190, Io wrote:
In post 187, Aj The Epic wrote:Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.
Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.
No there's not, but there
is
a difference between
concurring
and sheeping.
Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.
Wrong. Concurring is agreeing with a different reason.

There's a difference.
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Post Post #209 (isolation #15) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:57 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 208, Io wrote:Do I need to hit you upside the head with a dictionary?

con·cur
kənˈkər/
verb
1. be of the same opinion; agree.
I don't live by grammar school dictionaries. Try a grown up definition:

To agree, approve, or consent to, especially regarding an action or opinion. Regarding a decision of a court or court panel that has more than one judge, to agree with the opinion of another judge,
but not necessarily for all the same reasons or for a different reason altogether.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #16) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:24 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 218, MiniDeathStar wrote:I'm starting to feel better about Aj the Scummy btw.
You should put your vote next to mine so he can ask it out and they can go on a little vote-date.

If things go well, maybe they'll get married and have little vote-babies.

With a little time, our vote-family could grow enough to lynch AJ.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #17) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:19 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 229, MiniDeathStar wrote:Grey, how do you feel about massive's responses to me so far? I'm not super impressed to be honest, but I could be sinking into a tunnel. I need opinions.
massive is an enigma. I could find myself hammering his wagon, but I think AJ is a better lynch.
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Post Post #293 (isolation #18) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:40 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 289, Kairal wrote:That means the most pressing thing right now is... I think it's probably the 3 votes on AJ.
Why is that pressing? Why do you feel the need to lie about there being no reason to vote him?

You are faking an objection to his wagon, because my interaction with him clearly shows sufficient reason to vote him.

He accused me of confbiasing a scumread, which only town can do, while voting me.

When I called him out on it, instead of adjusting his read on me he only doubled down on his terrible logic.

Town is gonna be wrong. Comes with the territory of being the uninformed majority. But only scum has incentive to hang onto an illegitimate viewpoint because they can't afford to let town know the truth.
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Post Post #306 (isolation #19) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:45 am

Post by -Grey- »

TIL CloudKicker is either mod-confirmed town OR both CloudKicker and MDS are scum together.
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Post Post #315 (isolation #20) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:09 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 295, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 288, CloudKicker wrote:@swan its not a good idea nor optimal
Please play to your win condition. It is very clear that you are not, and if you continue I will have to force-replace you.
@mod
: You clearly stated that CK is not playing towards his wincon.

This means that he is either town tunneling town or scum bussing. If he was scum voting town, he'd be playing towards his wincon. If he was town voting scum, he'd be playing towards his wincon.

Dress it up however you like, your public statement altered the game state.
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Post Post #317 (isolation #21) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:14 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 101, Elhabe21 wrote:A little new at this but
VOTE: CloudKicker
Cuz you're standing out more than others
How does this justify a hard town read??
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Post Post #320 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:18 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 318, MiniDeathStar wrote:
In post 315, -Grey- wrote:@mod: You clearly stated that CK is not playing towards his wincon.

This means that he is either town tunneling town or scum bussing. If he was scum voting town, he'd be playing towards his wincon. If he was town voting scum, he'd be playing towards his wincon.
No, it means he *self-admitted* to making sub-optimal decisions. Playing towards your wincon means making the decisions you feel are best. He deliberately didn't do that, which is literally gamethrowing by definition.
There is a huge difference between playing suboptimally and gamethrowing.

You can still play towards your wincon if playing suboptimally, which is all CK ever admitted to. The mod is the one that said he wasn't playing towards his wincon.
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Post Post #322 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:22 am

Post by -Grey- »

You're mod-confirmed as the same alignment as CK.
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Post Post #324 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:27 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 321, MiniDeathStar wrote:He's an experienced mod and he wouldn't slip.
As far as I can tell, this is his first game.
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Post Post #326 (isolation #25) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:39 am

Post by -Grey- »

He got replaced for playing against his wincon.

I'm calling a spade a spade.
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Post Post #327 (isolation #26) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:41 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 295, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 288, CloudKicker wrote:@swan its not a good idea nor optimal
Please play to your win condition.
It is very clear that you are not
, and if you continue I will have to force-replace you.
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Post Post #328 (isolation #27) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:46 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 309, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Searching for a replacement for CloudKicker. I have made this decision based on his assertion that he is playing against his own win condition, and not the actual alignments of any players.
This is a mod lie.

CK never said he wasn't playing towards his wincon. He actually said:
In post 147, CloudKicker wrote:More like, im playing for my wincon the way i want
In post 253, CloudKicker wrote:I am playing for my wincon
In post 302, CloudKicker wrote:
In post 295, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 288, CloudKicker wrote:@swan its not a good idea nor optimal
Please play to your win condition. It is very clear that you are not, and if you continue I will have to force-replace you.
I disagree, force replace me if you want
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Post Post #330 (isolation #28) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:56 am

Post by -Grey- »

Only Gamma said CK wasn't playing to his wincon, which is important because only Gamma could possibly know that to be the truth.

It's quite obvious that CK was playing suboptimally, but playing suboptimally isn't a force-replaceable offense or it would happen in just about every single game.

Ergo, CK was playing against his wincon by voting for a player of shared alignment. There are no rules against voting for scum on shitty grounds.
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Post Post #332 (isolation #29) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:02 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 284, CloudKicker wrote:Like, a fine staple exemple is if i was mafia with minideathstar. Our lil chat about the names and such and the whole antagonizing the first few pages could seem really fake, especially sicne mini's case on me was scummy and bad. But, if you dig deeper, me threatening to vote her if she ever kept calling me names, and me following on it, proves that this cannot be a mvm in any world. This will be further proven the more day passes that i wont unvote
This is terrible logic. Moon logic voting is a great tool for distancing because it discourages others from voting your buddy.

I've used that tactic as scum on other sites to great success.
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Post Post #333 (isolation #30) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:05 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 331, MiniDeathStar wrote:
In post 330, -Grey- wrote:It's quite obvious that CK was playing suboptimally, but playing suboptimally isn't a force-replaceable offense or it would happen in just about every single game.
By itself it isn't. But *deliberately* playing suboptimally is. CK *admitted* that
as far as he was concerned
voting me wasn't the best choice, but he did anyway. Please stop bringing it up, it's been two pages already.

Gamma referred to CK's own admission, not our actual alignments.
CK NEVER admitted playing against his wincon. He said three times that he was playing towards his wincon.

ONLY GAMMA said he wasn't.

Playing suboptimally isn't against the rules. It's just bad play.

That CK was force replaced for playing against his wincon actually makes me want to lynch one of you two in order to confirm the alignment of the other.
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Post Post #334 (isolation #31) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:07 am

Post by -Grey- »

I mean seriously, Gamma forcing someone out for simply playing suboptimally is ironic as all fuck when you consider how suboptimally he plays.
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Post Post #336 (isolation #32) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:15 am

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: MiniDeathStar
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Post Post #339 (isolation #33) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:20 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 338, MiniDeathStar wrote:If you're going to lynch one of us, make it CK. I'm useful.
I'm willing to vote for either of you.
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Post Post #341 (isolation #34) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:28 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 340, MiniDeathStar wrote:This is what's going to happen. You lynch CK, mafia NK's me, Day 2 starts with 2 less townies and we've gained literally nothing. You do realise that even if by your logic one of our flips "confirms" the other as town, mafia will instakill the other one, right?
Mafia will simply kill town at night anyway. That's no excuse not to lynch one of you.

In fact, if one is lynched and flips town, it makes the other an obvious target for protection so your objection is overruled.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #35) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:35 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 342, MiniDeathStar wrote:Lynching town is a terrible choice, period.
I totally agree. But see, I think you're scum with CK and he just distanced really super badly to the point of playing against his wincon.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #36) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:47 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 345, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Shadow_Step replaces CloudKicker.
If a player admits to playing suboptimally and does not change, I qualify that as not playing towards your win condition, no matter whether it truly is. He had referred to his play as suboptimal, so I took action.
Doesn't change the fact you lied about his assertion.

He never said he wasn't playing to his wincon like you said was the basis of the replacement.

You need to update your rules and stop agreeing more on the fly to cover your bad decisions.
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Post Post #348 (isolation #37) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:48 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 347, -Grey- wrote:
In post 345, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Shadow_Step replaces CloudKicker.
If a player admits to playing suboptimally and does not change, I qualify that as not playing towards your win condition, no matter whether it truly is. He had referred to his play as suboptimal, so I took action.
Doesn't change the fact you lied about his assertion.

He never said he wasn't playing to his wincon like you said was the basis of the replacement.

You need to update your rules and stop adding more on the fly to cover your bad decisions.
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Post Post #349 (isolation #38) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:49 am

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In post 346, MiniDeathStar wrote:If I were scum with CK right now, I'd be asking Gamma for a role redistribution.
Doesn't mean you'd get one.
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Post Post #356 (isolation #39) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:06 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 354, MiniDeathStar wrote:Couldn't be more transparent, could you massive.

UNVOTE: Io
VOTE: massive
I actually agree with you.

VOTE: massive
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Post Post #357 (isolation #40) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:08 am

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In post 355, Shadow_step wrote:Grey seems really upset about losing an ML.
You make no sense. Nothing that has happened lately is indicative that AJ would be a mislynch.
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Post Post #360 (isolation #41) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:17 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 358, Shadow_step wrote:I'm talking about my slot.
I wasn't even voting you're slot, so you're still not making sense.
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Post Post #361 (isolation #42) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:20 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 359, massive wrote:Grey: Since you were pushing the "both town or both scum" idea, please explain to me what changed between your vote on MDS and your jump to me.
I was wondering who'd jump on an excuse to wagon obvtown.

MDS and CK are both town. The moonlogic push was just me fishing.
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Post Post #409 (isolation #43) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:20 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 374, MiniDeathStar wrote:I'm going to repeat this: nobody has confirmed that CK and I share alignment. Do not assume he's conftown when I die as town, or assume I'm conftown or confscum if he dies as town/scum. Like, pretty please.
No. You're mod-confirmed to share alignment. It's the only way a force replacement over playing against wincon makes ANY sense.

The second one of you dies, we'll know the date of the other. I just happen to believe you're both town.
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Post Post #410 (isolation #44) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:25 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 406, Kairal wrote:Ok I see the disconnect here. I've been seeing tunneling as a town thing and given that you specify that confbias can be scum it looked weird. Thanks I'll put you in basket 1 for now.
No. That's fucking terrible.

He was accusing me of confbiasing A SCUM READ, which is literally IMPOSSIBLE for scum to do because scum KNOW who scum IS.

That tunneling bullshit is just clumsy backpedaling.
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Post Post #412 (isolation #45) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:40 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 411, Aj The Epic wrote:Except you're making a huge deal of wording with someone who hasn't played a game of mafia in 8 months and expecting me to be spot on with vocab.

I expect more than that if you're going to call a case against me. I guarantee that's not how you scumhunt all the time.
I looked over your game history. Given your experience, I find it highly unlikely you actually forgot what confbias is in less than a year away.
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Post Post #415 (isolation #46) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 414, Kairal wrote:I think it may well be a scumslip or it may be a simple mistake. Personally it is nowhere near as incriminating as Io and massive's repeated refusals to engage in basic town behaviour. At least AJ's playing the game, posting reads and reasonable questions. I'm getting absolutely nothing of value from Io or massive despite repeated requests. I'm not sure if Io straight up ignoring it is more or less frustrating than massive outright telling me it's not gonna happen.
Tell me again who I'm voting?

Why are you so worried about my read on AJ?
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Post Post #436 (isolation #47) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:49 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 435, Io wrote:What?


I messed it too.
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Post Post #437 (isolation #48) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:49 am

Post by -Grey- »

Missed*
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Post Post #440 (isolation #49) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:05 am

Post by -Grey- »

Io is climbing in my scumreads.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #50) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:48 am

Post by -Grey- »

lol

busted
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Post Post #491 (isolation #51) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:53 am

Post by -Grey- »

I wouldn't be averse to swinging the wagon over to Flubs.
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Post Post #496 (isolation #52) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:06 am

Post by -Grey- »

OH MY GOD HOW RANDOM
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Post Post #499 (isolation #53) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:49 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 494, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 135, Flubbernugget wrote:Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your as not reading them as town, yet your votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.
look at how random my vote is everyone

LOOK AT IT
TBF, your push is a softball that could have easily been defended by pointing out how scum is more likely to be concerned about appearances than town.

It's not like you caught him with a smoking gun.
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Post Post #501 (isolation #54) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:51 am

Post by -Grey- »

omg wtf
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Post Post #503 (isolation #55) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:53 am

Post by -Grey- »

omg wtf
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Post Post #507 (isolation #56) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:05 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 505, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 499, -Grey- wrote:
In post 494, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 135, Flubbernugget wrote:Massive, I would like your read on cloudkicker. I see your as not reading them as town, yet your votes for someone else for *reasons*

And my vote is staying on you.
look at how random my vote is everyone

LOOK AT IT
TBF, your push is a softball that could have easily been defended by pointing out how scum is more likely to be concerned about appearances than town.

It's not like you caught him with a smoking gun.
tbf nobody has a smoking gun on page 6
Yeah but what you're glossing over is the fact that it could easily have been a distancing vote.

I'm not as forgiving as MDS.
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Post Post #511 (isolation #57) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:16 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 510, MiniDeathStar wrote:Well, I was accusing him of not scumhunting and he showed me evidence. I know that it could have been a distancing vote but it *could* have been scumhunting, too. I can't prove it either way until massive flips.
What would massive's alignment tell you about Flubber?
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Post Post #533 (isolation #58) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:44 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Is it just me, or did massive start following me around like a lost puppy after being called out on his crappy Kairal vote?
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Post Post #534 (isolation #59) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:50 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 130, Gamma Emerald wrote:1 - Kairal: massive
In post 198, Gamma Emerald wrote:3 - Aj The Epic: -Grey-, Io, massive
In post 336, -Grey- wrote:VOTE: MiniDeathStar
In post 353, massive wrote: And yeah, the lady doth protest too much.

VOTE: MiniDeathStar
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Post Post #537 (isolation #60) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:01 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 535, Kairal wrote:Yeah I see what you're getting at there with AJ. Pretty sure he was arguing with Mini before you were though - he did use your mod confirm argument to turn a disagreement into a vote I think.
He really got twisted when I flipped the script and voted him after he followed me onto Mini, though.

He clearly felt betrayed, like a... kicked puppy dog.
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Post Post #539 (isolation #61) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:04 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 538, Kairal wrote:To be fair it was a mean trick! :p
A guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do to get a read.
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Post Post #545 (isolation #62) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:30 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Lol.
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Post Post #559 (isolation #63) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:10 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 558, Kairal wrote:Do you know why Grey is laughing? It's because he started the whole Mini and Cloud modconfirmed scum thing as a way to lure scum out. You didn't read that part I guess? In fact just before I left the thread Grey and I were having a laugh about how he caught massive out with it.

Then right after that you come along quoting that same argument?
This.

So much this.

ROFL.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #64) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:16 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Actually, I think I'd be happier with a Newman lynch than a massive lynch.

massive already had beef with MDS, so he might have latched onto my push as an opportunity to lynch his top suspect which town can do just much as scum.

Newman coming out of left field with that, though...

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Post Post #599 (isolation #65) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:09 pm

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In post 597, I Am Innocent wrote:
In post 287, MiniDeathStar wrote:
In post 286, Flubbernugget wrote:That being said (as I've highlighted already) Saj is doing very little
That's kind of part of his meta on Day 1.
I assume you mean his town meta? How is his scum meta different?

As of this post, my top 3 scum reads are Jin, IO, & Newman.
Why aren't you voting one of them, then?
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Post Post #600 (isolation #66) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:18 pm

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In post 77, I Am Innocent wrote: Grey's vote was opportunistic.

Vote Grey
Speaking of voting, yours was hypocritical.

At four pages into a game, EVERY vote is opportunistic. Including yours.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #67) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:44 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 603, I Am Innocent wrote:This post of mine was out there for five days, why are you just responding to it now?
What do you expect that question to accomplish?

Do you think scum or town are more/less likely to miss a post?
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Post Post #607 (isolation #68) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:22 pm

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In post 606, I Am Innocent wrote:
In post 604, -Grey- wrote:
In post 603, I Am Innocent wrote:This post of mine was out there for five days, why are you just responding to it now?
What do you expect that question to accomplish?

Do you thinks scum or town are more/less likely to miss a post?
I expect to try to find what your agenda is. Are you saying you missed a vote on you back on page 4? Then missed my name next to yours each vote count thereafter?
Considering my lack of activity during those early days of the game, I can't believe you find that to be incomprehensible.

You're in my lynch pile along with Newman and Io.
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Post Post #613 (isolation #69) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:07 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 612, Shadow_step wrote:Read through the first 5 pages. More later.
When is the deadline?
ISO the mod and scroll down to 297.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #70) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:09 am

Post by -Grey- »

Or post 6.

Whatever.
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Post Post #618 (isolation #71) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:30 am

Post by -Grey- »

I'm not seeing scum in massive.

Just clumsy town.

Can we lynch in {Newman, Io, IAI} please?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #72) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:15 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 620, massive wrote:
In post 618, -Grey- wrote: Just clumsy town.
Hey I never promised you a ballet.

I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why) and not crazy about your company on that wagon. Talk to me about I Am Innocent? What has you putting him into the scum pile?
His attempt to push me with setup questions that don't come from a town mindset.
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Post Post #622 (isolation #73) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:17 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 620, massive wrote:
In post 618, -Grey- wrote: Just clumsy town.
Hey I never promised you a ballet.

I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why) and not crazy about your company on that wagon. Talk to me about I Am Innocent? What has you putting him into the scum pile?
I'm fine with my company on Newman. If we're judging wagons by the players on them, I'd be voting for you.
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Post Post #624 (isolation #74) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:33 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 565, MiniDeathStar wrote:I agree with Kairal actually (in that massive has been scummier so far). I just can't tell if Newman is town-paranoid about me, or scum-paranoid about me, or legitimately believes I'm scum but can't build an actual case.
Scum can't be paranoid, they have to fake it which is what Newman is doing.
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Post Post #626 (isolation #75) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:35 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 625, Io wrote:Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.
Scum can't be paranoid because scum has the answers. You are the informed minority, there is nothing to be paranoid about, so your team has to fake paranoia to look town.
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Post Post #627 (isolation #76) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:39 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 625, Io wrote:Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.
I think this is a legit scumslip because town doesn't need to even think about looking town, let alone worry about how they can fake it.

Looking town is something that comes solely from a scum mindset.

Io basing their paranoia argument on looking town instead of reading scum is scum-driven.

VOTE: Io
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Post Post #630 (isolation #77) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:47 am

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In post 629, Io wrote:That first line is basically word for word what I said.
I said "If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town."
You said "town doesn't need to even think about looking town"
Town doesn't even think about looking town when paranoia is the subject of discussion.

Paranoia is about the fear of scum. Period.

Only scum has appearances on their mind to be dredged into arguments about fear because only scum has to fear looking like scum.

Town would be arguing about how paranoia can be easily faked by scum, not by how scum needs to be paranoid of looking town.
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Post Post #632 (isolation #78) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:51 am

Post by -Grey- »

^ scum mindset
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Post Post #643 (isolation #79) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:28 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 641, I Am Innocent wrote:
In post 618, -Grey- wrote:I'm not seeing scum in massive.

Just clumsy town.

Can we lynch in {Newman, Io,
IAI
Jin} please?
Certainly. :]

unvote Grey
vote Newman
idk about Jin, but I'm down to lynch Newman and Io.

VOTE: Newman
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Post Post #658 (isolation #80) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:37 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 653, Kairal wrote:Why fall for the same trick massive already did? I dunno it doesn't seem all that likely to be scum play to me.
He didn't. massive voted for adjacent reasoning. Newman piggybacked my trap logic.
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Post Post #662 (isolation #81) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:59 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 660, Kairal wrote:
In post 658, -Grey- wrote:
In post 653, Kairal wrote:Why fall for the same trick massive already did? I dunno it doesn't seem all that likely to be scum play to me.
He didn't. massive voted for adjacent reasoning. Newman piggybacked my trap logic.
This feels like a semantics debate waiting to happen. I'll sidestep it. The question I'm really getting at is: Was Newman's vote opportunistic? I don't think it was. By the time he voted Mini most of town had agreed that the mod confirmed mafia argument was a non-starter. If he were just voting for the easiest to lynch town why not jump on any of the other people I mentioned. There are too many for them all to be scumpartners so he passed over an easy mislynch on a town to argue for a fairly difficult lynch in Mini.

It just doesn't really make sense to choose the hard road rather than the easy road. More likely he just genuinely believed the mod confirm argument (even though I agree it's not a very compelling one).
A vote doesn't have to be opportunistic to be scummy.

Scum often want to avoid being on lynches. Using terrible reasons and doubling down on the bad logic allows them to rationalize avoiding a lynchable player.
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Post Post #664 (isolation #82) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:06 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 663, massive wrote:My new favorite Mafia phrase is "adjacent reasoning."
You ain't seen nothing yet.
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Post Post #667 (isolation #83) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:22 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 665, I Am Innocent wrote:Scum also like to tunnel and minimize scum reads to not help town when they do flip.

There was a game recently where scum was like 'I'm fine with either transcend or maria D1', and moved his vote between them D1 depending on who was the bigger wagon.

Newmans play/tunneling here feels very similar to me.
I have two players in willing to vote.

How is my play any different than what you're describing?
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Post Post #673 (isolation #84) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:12 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 669, I Am Innocent wrote:Well you have expressed many reads/different votes today: Cloud, AJ, MDS (gimmick), massive, Newman, IO

Look at Newman's ISO. It is all Cloud/Shadow or MDS.
Fair point.
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Post Post #679 (isolation #85) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:37 am

Post by -Grey- »

Not bothering to respond. Keep reading.
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Post Post #680 (isolation #86) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:42 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 677, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 315, -Grey- wrote:@mod: You clearly stated that CK is not playing towards his wincon.

This means that he is either town tunneling town or scum bussing. If he was scum voting town, he'd be playing towards his wincon. If he was town voting scum, he'd be playing towards his wincon.

Dress it up however you like, your public statement altered the game state.
Why do you care, if you are town the game just got easy for you.
This seems like scum complaining.
I expect a Newman vote after you finish your catch-up.
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Post Post #685 (isolation #87) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:50 am

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I loled.
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Post Post #687 (isolation #88) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:15 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 686, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 685, -Grey- wrote:I loled.
Why?
Predictability is entertaining.
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Post Post #695 (isolation #89) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
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Post Post #705 (isolation #90) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:21 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #91) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:48 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 707, Kairal wrote:On the other hand Io seems surprisingly sure that massive is town. Is this just my reads being way off again? Although they could easily be scum partners. It's better to start with the more suspicious of the pair I suppose. I think it's better to go back to massive for the moment.

VOTE: massive
That makes no sense. If you think Io is scum, then vote him. Scum has plenty reason to townread a player regardless of their actual alignment.

Io being surprisingly sure that massive is town does not say anything about massive, only Io.
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Post Post #711 (isolation #92) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:51 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 705, -Grey- wrote:
In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
As opposed to you twisting definitions to fit a scum read?
All me when I've done that.
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Post Post #714 (isolation #93) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:54 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 713, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
In post 711, -Grey- wrote:
In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 705, -Grey- wrote:
In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
As opposed to you twisting definitions to fit a scum read?
All me when I've done that.
Guys, either scum read one another or dont and stop arguing. If this is TvT then it does nothing to actually further the game, i am politely asking you to focus.
It's more fun to bicker.
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Post Post #717 (isolation #94) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:13 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 715, Kairal wrote:In this case massive is suspicious and her defense of him indicates they could be a team. Thus we lynch him first.
Not really. Scum white knight town all the time for the "I told you so" factor.

You'll lose any credibility in lynching Io after massive flips town if you're wrong, which is why it's beneficial to start with the white knighting scum first.
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Post Post #721 (isolation #95) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:19 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 718, Kairal wrote:Yeah but my argument that Io is scum is now based entirely on the possibility she's defending massive. If he is town then I don't (currently) have any real reason to suspect she's scum.
Scum white knights town frequently. massive's alignment is irrelevant to Io's play because she could be defending him regardless of his actual alignment as scum.
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Post Post #723 (isolation #96) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:36 pm

Post by -Grey- »

If massive flips scum, she would be less suspicious, not more.

Scum have more motive to defend town than their buddies.
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Post Post #727 (isolation #97) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:00 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 724, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 711, -Grey- wrote:
In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 705, -Grey- wrote:
In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
As opposed to you twisting definitions to fit a scum read?
All me when I've done that.
And we now have gone full circle through the pointlessness of your pedantry. Am I supposed to know how you define and see the world without knowing you?

Nor should you act as if you do.
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Post Post #730 (isolation #98) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:42 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 729, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 727, -Grey- wrote:
In post 724, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 711, -Grey- wrote:
In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 705, -Grey- wrote:
In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
As opposed to you twisting definitions to fit a scum read?
All me when I've done that.
And we now have gone full circle through the pointlessness of your pedantry. Am I supposed to know how you define and see the world without knowing you?

Nor should you act as if you do.
I will explicitly state my point

Your idea that someone is scum over how they use one or two words is shit

It is also the perfect way to play if you can't formulate a meaningful read
I will explicitly state my point.

You not liking my point doesn't nullify it.

Arguing with me without even attempting to understand me is not going to sway me to your point of view.

Now piss off, in done with you.
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Post Post #738 (isolation #99) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:45 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 737, Dierfire wrote: I'm not really finding that a compelling reason to vote for Aj The Epic (not even then, but certainly not now). I've already discussed (in ) why I also don't find compelling reasons in your . Have you more to offer?

You said that you thought that HellloooNewman and massive are Town. I think that you've discussed most of the players voting for them, but maybe you could share your thoughts on Secret Agent Jin and Kairal? I'm reading the former in the Null-Mafia range and the latter as Town.
Do try to be current in reads if you are going to question them.

Get back to me when you've caught up.
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Post Post #740 (isolation #100) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:50 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 739, Dierfire wrote:I've checked again, and as best as I can tell those are the most current reads that Io has given.

(Or perhaps including the quote from your ISO was confusing? Io cited your as a reason to be suspicious of Aj The Epic and I am asking her whether she still stands by that)
Your post appeared to be addressing me, not Io.
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Post Post #746 (isolation #101) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:19 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 744, MiniDeathStar wrote:too scummy to be actual scum
That's not a thing.
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Post Post #750 (isolation #102) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:47 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 747, MiniDeathStar wrote:Have you never seen a super scummy villager who just says the wrong things at the wrong time, all the time? I feel like scum would at least make an actual effort not to look so bad.
The reason too scummy to be scum is not an actual thing is because actions are not scummy. Motives are.

Any scumreads should be based on a player's perceived motivations, not their actions.
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Post Post #752 (isolation #103) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:52 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 751, MiniDeathStar wrote:Oh, so we just disagree. I 100% believe in the powers of tonal reading. Motivations are often ambiguous.
No. Your inability to discern scum motive does not make it ambiguous.
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Post Post #781 (isolation #104) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:59 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 780, MiniDeathStar wrote:
Newman is at
L-1


DO NOT HAMMER. ANY HAMMER WITHOUT DECLARING INTENT WILL BE TREATED AS A SCUM CLAIM.
K.

VOTE: Newman
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Post Post #783 (isolation #105) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:02 am

Post by -Grey- »

spoilsport
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Post Post #785 (isolation #106) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:04 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 784, MiniDeathStar wrote:Grey, you're kind of a dick, you know that right? ;)
If by dick you mean I'm most useful during hard times, you're right.
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Post Post #787 (isolation #107) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:15 am

Post by -Grey- »

There's only one -Grey-.
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Post Post #800 (isolation #108) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:36 am

Post by -Grey- »

I kinda like 799, actually.
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Post Post #812 (isolation #109) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:19 pm

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: Io
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Post Post #814 (isolation #110) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:22 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 811, Kairal wrote:The only real thing to be gleaned from massive's post is that he and Mini probably aren't scum partners. I think that's been clear for a while though.
Really?

Really, Kairal?
In post 722, Kairal wrote:Yes I agree. I'm saying that I am (somewhat reluctantly) not seeing her as scum right now.
If massive flips scum then she looks suspicious.
If he flips town she doesn't.
Really?
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Post Post #817 (isolation #111) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Io, I'm giving you a sec change operation.

Mini is the only female allowed in this thread.
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Post Post #818 (isolation #112) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by -Grey- »

sex*
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Post Post #826 (isolation #113) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:05 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 825, Kairal wrote:As far as Grey goes sadly we can't lynch town just for being mean :p
Hey!! :(
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Post Post #827 (isolation #114) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:08 am

Post by -Grey- »

So... after revisiting the issue, I've decided that I don't buy Newman's claim.

VOTE: Newman
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Post Post #828 (isolation #115) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:09 am

Post by -Grey- »

And by don't buy, that means I'm counterclaiming him.

I'm either JK or BP. Either way, he can't be cop.
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Post Post #829 (isolation #116) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:20 am

Post by -Grey- »

Oh fucking lol... thought I was playing Matrix 6.

Lovely.
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Post Post #830 (isolation #117) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:33 am

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: Io
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Post Post #832 (isolation #118) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:46 am

Post by -Grey- »

What I did was proper play had this game been... elsewhere.

Epic fail, need sleep. Good night.
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Post Post #848 (isolation #119) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:42 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 713, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
In post 711, -Grey- wrote:
In post 710, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 705, -Grey- wrote:
In post 704, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 695, -Grey- wrote:
In post 693, Flubbernugget wrote:No no no no No fucking NO

I really can't belive you guys are arguing like you can only be paranoid of one single thing in the world
If you're going to quote my post, try to make yours relevant to what I said in that post.
Stop fighting with people because the way they define words doesn't have your seal of approval
If they twist definitions to fit into a scum mindset, then yes I'll lynch them over it.
As opposed to you twisting definitions to fit a scum read?
All me when I've done that.
Guys, either scum read one another or dont and stop arguing. If this is TvT then it does nothing to actually further the game, i am politely asking you to focus.
Hope does this not come from scum?

Scum often plays peacemaker for towncred.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
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Post Post #849 (isolation #120) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:48 am

Post by -Grey- »

How*
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---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
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Post Post #879 (isolation #121) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:53 am

Post by -Grey- »

VOTE: Poll

I'm down for that.
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Post Post #925 (isolation #122) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:07 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 906, massive wrote:There's an awful lot of "I would vote massive again today but oh how wrong my reads were yesterday" going on.
True. We should remedy that.

VOTE: massive
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
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Post Post #929 (isolation #123) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:48 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Lulz.

VOTE: Jin
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Post Post #940 (isolation #124) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:16 am

Post by -Grey- »

In post 939, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 929, -Grey- wrote:Lulz.

VOTE: Jin
I mean it's good that you're voting my scum read but I'm actually curious why you didn't like what jin said
It's a convenient excuse to support the lynch of a player without having to be pinned into a scumread on them.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
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"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
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Post Post #945 (isolation #125) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:31 am

Post by -Grey- »

I'm so lost.

An accurate VC would be awesome.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
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Post Post #947 (isolation #126) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:36 am

Post by -Grey- »

Just claim, either way your role is coming out regardless.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
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Post Post #2014 (isolation #127) » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:56 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Nice job town. Sorry about the derp.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch
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