Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!


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Post Post #21 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:32 pm

Post by Saru »

VOTE: LmkGuy
Story please.
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Post Post #197 (isolation #1) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:34 am

Post by Saru »

In post 183, Lowell wrote:Aron reads more newbtown than flailing scum to me.
Pretty much my exact thoughts.

Alpaca is either playing stupid or really is just stupid. Same goes for iron. One is probably scum though, in my experience. I'll let time tell which one it is.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tracer
Thoughts so far, Tracer? You said you wanted to vote so many people, so, who are they?
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Post Post #203 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:56 am

Post by Saru »

In post 198, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:Am i stupid because I said I scumread you? Or something else
UNVOTE:
No. Were you actually confused by Nero's read list? Genuine question. Because it seemed pretty damn obvious that he just copied it from the mod.
In post 199, ironstove wrote:Could you go into detail on why you think are Alpaca and I are playing 'stupid'? Is there anything you can provide specifically to the table besides this post?

Also, you indicated in the post above that you believe one of us is probably scum, so why are you now voting for tracer? Do you still think this game is in RVS or are you scum reading the tracer slot? If yes on the SR, then why?
The Nero reads list thing. Do you actually think he put himself in second place on purpose?

I'm voting for Tracer because they need to speak up, not because I have a SR on them. I'm curious as to who they think is scum since they want to vote so many people.

P-edit: Iron, can I get a link to that comparison checker of yours?
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Post Post #205 (isolation #3) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:07 am

Post by Saru »

In post 204, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:Also he reorganized the list, like he didnt just psot the list he moved people around, so why not take himself out or put himself on top
Well he moved people based on his read of them, no? The numbers from the mod's list were still there. Notice that they are in numerical order. He's second because he is #3 and Lmk is #1 from the original list. That's all.

As to your point about why not take himself out: this might be a good read. Consensus is, is that it's pretty much null to put yourself in a town list.
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Post Post #209 (isolation #4) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:15 am

Post by Saru »

I get what your saying Alpaca. All I wanted to know is if you scum read him because of that, and it seems your answer is no. So that's fine.

Quick note though: can you type a little more clear? No offense, but no periods or commas makes it hard for me to read your posts. :P Thanks.
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Post Post #214 (isolation #5) » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:27 am

Post by Saru »

@iron: have you used your program or whatever before in a game to get reads? Like, did you publicly make a post about it in any of your previous games? If so, can you link them?
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Post Post #316 (isolation #6) » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:09 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 253, PenguinPower wrote:And what do you think of karnos?

That is an open question to everyone.
Karnos is on the scummy side of null. Hasn't posted all too much, but when he does, mainly one liners.
@Karnos: Why do you think Tracer is scum besides what iron said?

@Tracer: You listed people whose posts you don't like and would therefore vote, but you're still voting Alpaca, and he wasn't in that list. What's up with that? Who do you really feel is scum at the moment?
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Post Post #354 (isolation #7) » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:03 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 341, karnos wrote:Sharing town reads gives scum a road map to victory.
Karnos, I remember you saying this exact thing as scum in our first game together. You say you don't have any scum reads(and clearly aren't making an effort to scum hunt) but also that you wouldn't call out who you read as town until they were wagoned. In other words, you're going to lurk and be dead weight for the town until someone you want lynched gets wagoned.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Karnos
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Post Post #365 (isolation #8) » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:34 am

Post by Saru »

In post 358, karnos wrote:I'm not sure how anyone can say that that play was similar to my refuse to share irrelevant reads in this game. I doubt saru would pull this BS as scum, because it's so easy to prove wrong, yet nevertheless he is spewing BS that makes no logical sense. I think he is just town that was sore from losing mini 1800 and wants to get me lynched so there is no chance of being fooled again. Unfortunetly, I am town this game, so he is just hurting town by pushing to lynch me.
Persivul wrote:Why don't you surprise us all with a reads list?
Karnos wrote:Perhaps I will. I don't like giving a full road map to scum...
From Mini 1800. So yes, you did say this. Also, the argument that I would want to lynch you because I'm "sore" from losing to you is silly and egotistic. You didn't even do anything in 1800, that was all Math coaching you. If anything, I wouldn't be sore because I beat Math just recently as scum in my previous game, so I guess I got my revenge? :lol:

Also, nice strawman. I clearly said you're not scum hunting this game but are also not willing to provide town reads this game. So you're doing nothing. You're just sitting there, twiddling your thumbs, probably waiting for a town player to get wagoned to hop on.
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Post Post #373 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:32 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 372, karnos wrote:Yeah okay, you are way over-invested in this because of past games.
BTW, your memory is faulty, MathBlade was trying to bus me all game, certainly didn't push to defend me in any way at all.

The fact that you mention beating Math later
proves
had something to make up for after that loss, and nailing me would be obviously #2 on that list. TBH I'm tempted right here to just throw and let town lynch me, because seeing you screw up the game would be satisfying from a personal perspective, but to play to my win condition it would be a terrible play. And then there is the edge case where scum!Saru risks it all because of a personal vendetta against me, it would be a utter fail to let you get me miss-lynched in that case.

And you are wrong. I am scum hunting, I'm sorry if you aren't observant enough to realize that. Sometimes the best way to catch scum is to dangle a bit of bait.
The bolded has nothing to do with what I've been saying, but ok?

You have some really dumb arguments. Actually, all you're doing is discrediting me as a person, not refuting my arguments. I'm wrong about you because I have a "personal vendetta"? wtf? I don't even have anything against you. By your logic, I should never push a player who beat me as scum in future games because my judgement would be clouded? Like, what?

The only reason I mention Math is because I'm trying to prove a point that even if your argument about "vendetta" had any merit, it would be disproven by that. You brought it up first, genius.

Also, #2? wtf!? lmfao! I guess I should start seeking out Magna too to make sure I get my personal revenge on him? You really sound foolish, you're doing nothing to help the town, and just seeking to discredit me but not my arguments. You need rope. Badly.
karnos wrote:I have no problem at all with the sharing of scum reads, by all means spill your guts: who are your scum reads, alpaca*2?
"I have no problem saying my scum reads, but hey, here's a post where I don't put out scum reads." LOL
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Post Post #374 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:41 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 372, karnos wrote:TBH I'm tempted right here to just throw and let town lynch me, because seeing you screw up the game would be satisfying from a personal perspective, but to play to my win condition it would be a terrible play.
This is a terrible over-reaction, and feels fake as fuck.
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Post Post #376 (isolation #11) » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:03 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 375, karnos wrote:Oh come one now, we aren't that stupid. "You didn't even do anything in 1800, that was all Math coaching you. " Is there some other interpretation to that other than you trying to implie that I only survived until endgame and won as scum (with a single loss of my team for that matter) was because MathBlade carried me. Yet he was busing me the whole game, so the implication in your post is an obvious lie. Yes, you are being careful to not directly lie, but instead you are making statements that are only actually relevant if you make assumptions that aren't actually true.
You clearly don't know the difference between being coached and being bussed. Yes, Math bussed the shit out of you, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she coached your play throughout. In fact, it has nothing to do with what I've been saying. She literally would fix minute details of your posts and read lists to make them more townie-friendly. Her bussing you means nothing. That was her doing things to make herself look more townie because of site meta.
Okay, that sounds like something worth talking about, instead of this irrelevant meta-gaming argument that I must be scum. What are my dumb arguments, from this game?
The dumb argument is that you think I'm pushing you because I'm mad about the loss, and you're still pushing that line of attack. That is not an argument for why you're town, but only an argument to discredit me as a person. As scum, it's in your best interest to just discredit when you don't have an argument. And I'm not using meta to call you scum. Forget for a moment that I even mentioned Mini 1800. How about what I said about your play this game with you doing nothing? You have time to respond to my posts accusing you, but can't muster up the time to scum-hunt or put out reads? I don't think so.
How can you be so oblivious? I brought it up without having any idea whatsover that you later "beat" MathBlade in another game. I was guessing it might be a personal vendetta, you confirmed my guess. If I brought it up and I was wrong you wouldn't have confirmed my statement by admitting that were apparently keeping score.
What? Are you even reading what I said? I said that your argument of personal vendetta is total nonsense and I was making a mostly jokish remark about beating Math, therefore having gotten my "revenge." It was a poke at your silly argument. See: the laughing emote at the end of that sentence.
Magna? Wow, you memorized the whole scumteam from that game. More evidence that it apparently hit really hard when you got that loss.
Yes, now this is what scum does. More attacks on character. Guess what buddy, there are things called archives. You can go back and read games from the past, surprise, I know! :lol:
Yeah, sorry I care more about quality than quantity. Your scum read of me is dead wrong, might want to fix your radar. I mean if I wanted to act like Saru I could give a handful of scum reads based on idiotic meta observations, but they wouldn't be very accurate.
So your excuse for not scum hunting is because you wouldn't be very accurate? I guess we should all just stop scum hunting then and wait until the deadline? Like, that is no excuse. No one is perfect, myself included. Yes, you might be wrong, so what? Atleast you tried. Or would you rather be a dead weight all game?
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Post Post #416 (isolation #12) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:51 am

Post by Saru »

In post 385, karnos wrote:Doesn't this sound ridiculous to anyone else?

MathBlade busing me meant an extra vote on me. My other scum partner was also busing me much of the game. And you STILL failed to get me lynched- in fact you decided I was a good target to recruit as a mason, and you killed yourself trying to recruit me. I guess that is why you are still sore about it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=66834

For the record, MathBlade didn't want me to claim Neapolitan, yet I did because I knew it was a decent play. It saved me from lynch day 1, and every day after. Apparently it fooled you too. Feel free to continue to blame the loss on MathBlade, but saying I did "nothing" that game is just pure ignorance.
If it helps your ego, then sure, you totally helped your team win the game man. Totally. Again, this discussion isn't really relevant to what I'm talking about and just serves as a distraction.
You are really not paying attention. I thought you were town, sore about the loss. How in any way is that me discrediting you as a person?
It's you saying "don't listen to anything Saru has to say about me because his judgement is clouded from a previous game!" Besides that just being a flail argument, that is also an attempt to discredit me, and not arguing against my arguments. It basically tries to invalidate any point I try to make on you with a broad brush.
But the way you have started obsessing over this and trying to defend your obvious lies makes me think that maybe you are scum, and you don't dare admit where you lied. Town!Saru could just say saru for the misteak, I was wrong. Scum!Saru has to won the argument, as wrong as it is, and push it until you get your miss lynch. This is looking like the later.
I know for a fact you're lying here about my meta because from Mini 1800 it should be clear that the latter is more town!Saru. I literally posted like a half a page wall on Dierfire in 1800 and I didn't let down on him until he was lynched. And even when he flipped town, I didn't stop walling on people. As town, I'm pretty damn out there because as scum I'm too scared of being lynched to get into wall arguments with people. My last game as scum is a good example of that. I lurked 24/7 basically.
If it's nonsense why are you so focused on it? Why are you keeping score? Why are you re-reading old games of mine? Are you reading through old games for everyone in the game... 12 players *X games each.. where do you have the time? Or is this just a personal vendetta against me?
Can you flail a little less? Thanks. Point to a post where I said I was reading old games of you? I've not read a single old game of yours. Everything I've been saying when it comes to past things is in reference to 1800, if you haven't noticed, since that's the only game we've played together. So you're either lying or you're so scared to be lynched that you're just typing without thinking. Either way, you're scum.
Yes you can. My question is why just me? If you are legitimately scum hunting, you should be reading through everyone's games or no ones games. Why are you hyper focused on me?
You need to learn how to read properly. Go look at what that "archives" point was responding to.
I'm voting someone. Are you reading the tracer/thor slot as town? Why not talk about that if you have issue with my scum hunting?
You voted someone by sheeping another person who you thought was town. Nice scum hunting skillz. Also, scum now knows that you town read iron. Good job, you just handed them the game. :lol: /sarcasm
I don't think sharing town reads is pro-town. That is my stance, period. That doesn't mean I am not scum hunting, quit trying to put lies into my mouth. That is what scum does. You are quickly eroding the bias-town read I had of you and turning it into a malicious-scum read.
Funny. What happened to my "personal vendetta?" Guess that argument of yours was BS after all lmfao.
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Post Post #417 (isolation #13) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:53 am

Post by Saru »

In post 414, karnos wrote:In the case of voting you and following iron's lead it was a clear case, at least to me, where sharing my town read of him was overall a positive.
A positive how? This doesn't line up at all with what you've been saying about sharing town reads being a road to victory for scum. You're molding your original stance into something new to avoid being called a hypocrite. Sad.
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Post Post #422 (isolation #14) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:47 am

Post by Saru »

In post 418, karnos wrote:LOL, it's not about my ego. Your whole point was you didn't care about losing to me because you didn't think I did anything to cause you to lose. That is, you were trying to make it sound like you have no reason to be bias against me. After changing your story, you now have a reason to be bias. I get the obvious sarcasm, but sarcasm can just be a convenient way for you to avoid answering a hard question truthfully when you know the answer paints you as a liar.
No. My point is that I don't have any vendetta or bias against you. Like it just doesn't exist and there's no proof you've provided that it exists. You being the scum though, you are just love to twist my words. You keep trying to make it sound like I think your scum from some non-existent bias. Like, again, what is the bias? You're making no sense and 2 people have pointed that out now. Like, why would I have bias because I lost something? I'm clearly scum reading you because I think you're scum. You've done scummy shit. You make it sound like I didn't sleep for weeks or something after I lost 1800. Like I'm traumatized or something. It's fucking hilarious but also sad. Get a real argument besides discrediting, then respond to me.
What post of mine is that quote from? Don't misrepresent me, don't use quote marks if you are not actually quoting me, that is the same as lying.

I mean sure it is a flail argument, but it's one I didn't make so what is your point?
Why do you have to act so oblivious? Clearly it wasn't a quote from you, otherwise I would have quoted the actual post, genius. It's in quotes because it's basically what you're trying to say about me. It's the idea. I apparently have a bias and clouded judgement towards you. Or is that not what you're saying and you've been BS'ing this whole time? Which one is it?
I'm not claiming anything about your meta. If you are town and you want to win, and you made an obvious error in an accusation, you should realize that the scum read based on an error is leading you astray. It has nothing to do with your meta, it has to do with fucking basic logic. If your initial assumptions are wrong, your result is going to come out wrong as well. The fact that you instead keep trying to twist things around and move your goalposts show that you don't see me as scum because of my refusal to share reads, but instead you just decided I was scum (or an easy miss lynch) and are making up reasons after the fact.
You keep talking about me making an error in my judgement of you, but then you say it's because I have a bias. If I have a bias of you no matter what, then does that mean I should never judge you this entire game? I should never town/scum read you because I'm biased? Think about what you're saying. By your logic, no matter what, you'd have to be null for me for the entire game.

And what assumptions have I made that are wrong? That you're not scum hunting? That you're a hypocrite? Have you proven me wrong? No, you haven't.
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Post Post #423 (isolation #15) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:48 am

Post by Saru »

In post 421, karnos wrote:
In post 417, Saru wrote:
In post 414, karnos wrote:In the case of voting you and following iron's lead it was a clear case, at least to me, where sharing my town read of him was overall a positive.
A positive how?
Let me explain it to you like you are five.

Karnos votes Thor.

Someone asks why.

Karnos says "no reason".

Karnos gets lynched, Karnos flips town.

That is a net negative, in any measure. You can try to twist my words around as much as you want, as long as the town players are smart enough to see through your misrepresentation I don't think I have anything to worry about.
wtf? So then you disproved yourself in regards to your stance of never sharing town reads, since it was clearly a benefit for you.

Also, the above quote shows to me that you didn't actually have a reason to vote Thor, did you? You had to find one, which was sheeping iron because he was townie. In other words, you don't really think Thor is scum. Just needed a reason to hop onto the biggest wagon at the time.
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Post Post #430 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:22 am

Post by Saru »

In post 428, karnos wrote:You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."


You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.
Or you seem to have a consistency and hypocrisy problem. The quote that you bolded has 0 to do with you sheeping Iron because you town read him.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
You weren't speaking up about a town player being wagoned, so this has nothing to do with what Thor and I are talking about.

"And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
And there was no need to share your read on Iron today because the game hasn't progressed yet. It's still D1, so why do it if it's anti-town? You literally just claimed to be anti-town.
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Post Post #433 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:30 am

Post by Saru »

In post 432, karnos wrote:That is what my stance actually was, and still is. Notice how I said I would speak up in some cases, and reveal town reads as the game progresses? That is the opposite of "never sharing town reads".

Simply put, I caught you in a lie and now you are trying to move the goal posts and change the subject. Nice try scum. Enjoy your rope.
Yup, you just confirmed to me your scum.

You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.

If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.
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Post Post #436 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:53 am

Post by Saru »

karnos wrote:
In post 433, Saru wrote:
You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.

If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.
Spoiler: saru logic
Saru, you never said you would use meta arguments against me, and then you used one against me at the beginning of the game! That means you are scum!

/saru logic


Now back to reality, you aren't a liar because you did something you didn't say you would do. You are a liar if you do something you said you wouldn't do.

If I had said something like "I will never share a single scum read". then you might have a valid point.

If.

But if I didn't say that? (Hint: I didn't). Your argument is bullshit.
That's not at all my logic here, but, man, you're flailing hard, I see.

You said you didn't want to give town reads because it would give scum a road map to victory. If this is true, you had no reason to state that you town read Iron just because you wanted to vote Thor/Tracer. You could have said anything along the lines of "Tracer just feels scummy" or "Iron makes good points about her." Instead, you did that which you apparently hate doing, when you didn't need to do it at all. Which also shows you don't actually believe what you yourself are saying about town reads. You're fine with giving them when it fits your scum agenda. ;)
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Post Post #444 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:48 am

Post by Saru »

You have Thor's hammer in your avatar.

It's a conspiracy. :shifty:
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Post Post #472 (isolation #20) » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:54 am

Post by Saru »

In post 470, karnos wrote:The problem being, I NEVER said that I wouldn't share a single town read. I specifically said that sharing all information was anti-town, but then I gave several examples of exceptions to that. I actually didn't think it would be necessary to spell out an exception in something I was already doing, but I guess scum can be pedantic and their arguments.
Except what you did, didn't meet the exception you had laid out(), and I've proven this already in . Unless you have more exceptions that you want to start making up on the spot? Be my guest.

If the Karnos wagon doesn't go through, the Knight wagon also isn't too shabby. I could excuse his reasons for voting Karnos(seeing as others had pretty much the same reasons), but the fact that he tries to lay the groundwork for a Lmk lynch tomorrow is troubling. Arona makes a good point here:
In post 449, aronagrundy wrote:When he says he'll go after lmk tomorrow (this is all assuming a karnos lynch here) he's giving himself an excuse to post irrelevant content (if karnos flips town) or just jump on the lmk wagon (if karnos flips scum).
@Karnos: Not sure if I missed it, but what's your view on Knight?
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Post Post #473 (isolation #21) » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:55 am

Post by Saru »

In post 471, karnos wrote:So what? It's still the correct play to lynch your top scum reads, even if it's unlikely they are all scum.
You don't say? :roll:
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Post Post #476 (isolation #22) » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:45 am

Post by Saru »

@MOD:
I'm pretty sure Nero is still voting Lmk.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #23) » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:20 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 505, Foxbird wrote:I am also praying to the Mafia deities that I didn't fuck up the VC this time.
Sadly, you have Karnos voting twice. His vote is still on me, IIRC.

I can actually see Knight for scum here. His posts have been lacking and just disappointing. I'll think about Karnos later.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Knighty Knight
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Post Post #513 (isolation #24) » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:34 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 512, GreyICE wrote:That's not good play, and that's very emotional play.
Congrats, you just figured out my town meta.
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Post Post #515 (isolation #25) » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:52 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 514, GreyICE wrote:Nah, no, that's not it. I modded a game with you in it, I got to read you. You posted a shitton, both in the thread and in the mason QT, and you're a hell of a lot more analytical than all that.
Analytical? Not really. I mean, yes, a little, but I'm a lot more emotional. Did you not see me essentially get into a fight with my mason partner lmfao. Shit was real bad.

And you bet I tunneled hard. I took Persivul on for a while, and I basically had to be pulled away by Mecha. I spent a while calling qubixes scum and then Dier scum. All flipped town. Mostly solism on my part.

As for the rest of the game - I'd say maybe Thor taking advantage of me on Karnos? Been thinking about that ever since Karnos mentioned it. He's basically stolen what I've been saying about Karnos and presented it as his own, perhaps to get me to keep going.

Actual scum reads are Thor and Knight. Karnos is something I need to think about, but leaning town. Lowell is also creeping up my scum-dar for some shit tier posts. Not sure about you yet.

Nero hasn't done much as of late, so I'd like to see more from him. Alpaca is in narnia. Same with LMK. Arona is all over the place, but most of the votes she makes go towards Knight, so that makes me think town. malp is a non-factor.

Town reads are iron, but feels like fake confidence. Same with penguin.
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Post Post #519 (isolation #26) » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:10 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 516, GreyICE wrote:I'm not saying it was great play, but man, you were giving a shit and caring.

Here you're telling me you parked your vote for 7 days on someone you don't even think is scum? I mean fucking seriously, you parked your vote for seven days on someone you didn't even think was a scumread, and what woke you up to this was... what? My deep and compelling arguments based on my first impressions of who I was reading?
Oh, you bet I give a shit and care here, otherwise I wouldn't even care to fight with Karnos.

No, I thought Karnos was scum for maybe a couple of days. But recently, I've thought about why Thor is basically taking up my argument and trying to use it against Karnos. Like I'm not ego-tistic, upon re-read, I can see me being superficial in my arguments against Karnos. I don't feel great about Karnos, but I feel even worse about Thor right now.

As for what arguments, basically everything. The part about Karnos being hypocritical based on the iron townread and the exception and all that. He's just more articulate with them.

You play somewhat of a role in my decision to vote Knight. I stated that I think Knight is scum before you came in, but you coming in with fresh eyes kind of makes me feel better about it. I'm voting the scum read that has more votes atm.

P-edit: Yes, I do analyze what I do wrong in every game and try to fix it. A huge part of that was simply not walling, which I have relatively reduced over time. But at the end of the day, I still play emotional, and it's not because I don't know I'm playing emotional, but because I'm too paranoid to change. Again, solism.
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Post Post #523 (isolation #27) » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:47 pm

Post by Saru »

So mean. :cry:
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Post Post #662 (isolation #28) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:41 pm

Post by Saru »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor665
I'm almost 100% on Thor being scum here. His push on Karnos is all kinds of bad, and I don't see how he doesn't see it. Like I get the hypocrisy that Karnos is doing(I've pointed it out like 3 times now myself), but it isn't anything damning, and it just feels really nit-picky at this point.

Also, Lowell is acting like crazy kinds of different from another game I played with him where he was town. He's isn't as...verbose? Or he just doesn't explain things as much. His lurking fits the pattern from the other game though, so I can't say much about that.

I think Fire is probably town. I can see Grey's concern about my play compared to 1800, but I've changed a bit since then, and so I don't see his tunnel on me as scum necessarily, but just really stupid. Which makes me wonder: is Grey really this stupid? ehhh...

I'll claim at L-1, if I get there.
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Post Post #663 (isolation #29) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:50 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 639, karnos wrote:Ugh, I want a Saru wagon to be true,
but do we have time?
That's the million dollar question. I have a feeling my wagon will be pushed through simply due to time constraints, which would be unfortunate.
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Post Post #668 (isolation #30) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:24 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 664, Fire Assassin wrote:
In post 662, Saru wrote:I think Fire is probably town. I can see Grey's concern about my play compared to 1800, but I've changed a bit since then, and so I don't see his tunnel on me as scum necessarily, but just really stupid. Which makes me wonder: is Grey really this stupid? ehhh...
My read on you is actually because of 1800 as well.
Its a very different style of play, and you do seem to be lacking in thought in your posts.

Want to go into a bit more, just for old times?
I understand that I'm lacking in thoughts. Trust me, I don't dispute that. But, I don't really have ALL that much to say. Like, I gave who I thought was town and scum in a previous post and that hasn't really changed. I would argue there are players who are more lacking than me in that regard, and so it seems to be more of a meta argument against me more than anything else.

If you have questions for me, then just ask.
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Post Post #673 (isolation #31) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:42 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 670, Fire Assassin wrote:So I am just wondering why the change in style, if I may ask?
I guess maybe because I feel like I try to explain too hard, I'll just start walling and have them skipped over. Note what I said about walls in my link to the other game. I'm not good at being concise, but I feel it's better to get people to understand you better. Maybe I've become too concise lmfao. Pendulum swinging the other way too quickly, essentially.

I thought Knight was scummy because most of his latter posts before replace out was just a bunch of obvious observational comments that seemed like filler. This one sticks out in particular:
In post 342, Knighty Knight wrote:@Alpaca in response to .

Malpascp hasn't said anything since page 4 and what he did say wasn't very useful (fair enough given where we were at that time). He pretty much coasted through RVS and stopped posting after voting Alpaca and saying he didn't like Penguins signature which, on that topic, he has a 7-0 as scum, maybe by doing exactly what he is doing rn (unless of course that WL is faked). He hasn't called V/LA so unless he's dead irl, he is probably waiting for people to forget about him, which we did. Possible scum waiting till the iron (not the player) is hot to strike.

Saru also hasn't said anything (besides page 1 RVS) until 8 pages later... As for his argument in he is pretty much doing the same thing, his 7 posts except for a few were asking about Iron's code. So Saru has like 2 or 3 posts that had some substance but the thing about Tracer was already an idea at that point, so more like 1 or 2 substantial posts. Still null on Saru, really just hasn't said enough to give me an opinion either way.

Lowell has said barely anything including RVS which, to be fair, he was trying to help out but after that, he went silent except for a post calling my read on Arona "opportunistic" which, after I explained he went back to being silent. Lowell also hasn't really said a whole lot, like... less than anyone else... and with less content as well. So I am going to have to sit null on Lowell as well, have nothing to base an opinion off of.

Tracer, hmmm, I guess the main issue with her is the whole which everyone is already very familiar with. While she has posted a little more on who, there wasn't much why. So as I said and I will be voting Tracer because she hasn't said anything explaining her choices and it is near the end of friday. If she gives me a good reason to unvote her by midnight I might unvote.

But for now

VOTE: Tracer
And everything before that was just Knight replying to people who had questions for him or made comments about him rather than any real contribution, and then he points out "oh but I'm contributing more than others" which was lol.
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Post Post #675 (isolation #32) » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:49 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 674, Fire Assassin wrote:Can you go more into transition on karnos is def scum to not liking Thor for his push?
Sure.

Initially I felt Karnos was scum because of what he said about sharing town reads, which felt like an excuse to just not give town reads at all, and then he also said he didn't have any particular scum reads either. So it mainly felt he was just making excuses for not wanting to do anything. It got even worse when he revealed that he read Iron as town and was therefore willing to vote with Iron, which seemed to go against his stated views and exception to those views.

But then Thor came in and he started to make similar or pretty much the same arguments that I was getting at, which made me feel a bit paranoid that he was buddying me or taking advantage. Karnos pointed out this possibility:
In post 456, karnos wrote:There is also a fair chance that between you and Saru one is actually town just being taken advantage of by the scum, but I'm fairly confident that at least one of you is scum :)
And ever since then I've been somewhat paranoid about Thor. Notice how I don't really push Karnos after that. Usually my arguments are pretty emotional/bad as town, so when I see people agreeing with me, that worries me. It happened with Math buddying me onto Dierfire in 1800.

And basically, now, Thor is just harping on Karnos without much thought about anyone/anything else in the game. His ISO is basically all Karnos. Upon re-read, I don't think the arguments Thor and I were pushing were really all that great, and for him to be so gung-ho about it is strange. Like, yes, Karnos might have contradicted himself, but I don't really see it being the end all reason to call Karnos scum, as Thor does.

Also, just noticed: Thor said in that the argument between Karnos and I was essentially white noise, so then why is Thor contributing to that white noise immediately afterwards? It doesn't add up.
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Post Post #678 (isolation #33) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:58 am

Post by Saru »

lol it's the weekend and we have less than 2 days left and 3 people are V/LA. It ain't looking good for me. :lol:

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Post Post #682 (isolation #34) » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:16 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 594, GreyICE wrote:I believe in the Saru wagon. This one came together astonishingly fast. That's scary.
I wonder what Grey has to say about how fast my wagon built up. Even faster than Knight's. How scared are you now, Grey? Or is it only Knight's wagon that "scared" you?

Also, lol @ Lowell calling me a lurker. He has fewer posts than some replacements. :lol: Probably scum.

I'm a VT.
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Post Post #811 (isolation #35) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:23 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 785, Thor665 wrote:I'd like to lynch in here; aronagrundy, karnos, ironstove
I think Aronagrundy is probably town.
Then why is she in your lynch list? Also, why is she "probably town"?
In post 790, aronagrundy wrote:Also remember when saru disappeared after everyone hopped off his wagon? Good times.
Oh yeah, totally, I "disappeared." My wagon fell apart Sunday morning sweetie. I was busy Sunday and then I come back from college on Monday to see some no-name lynched(albeit, rightfully for his shit lurking).
In post 710, aronagrundy wrote:
Like what exactly is thor doing here, saru?
aronagrundy wrote:plz respond to the bolded saru
Nothing, that's the point. He's been about tunneling Karnos since he first replaced in. It's almost as bad as Grey who had his head up his ass about wanting to lynch me. Let me ask you this: what do you think about Thor's play with Karnos and what do you think about both of them in general?
In post 809, Lowell wrote:VOTE: saru

I don't have a strong case-based reason here, but I do have a strong feeling that the way that day ended was no accident. I recall putting saru to L-1 to avoid a no lynch, then coming back to find some random rube dead.
Oh god, if this isn't a scum vote...

Atleast you admit you don't have a case. But your feelings are unfounded and it's a bit strange how you went from calling me a "lurker null read"(which makes no sense) to voting me because my wagon dissipated. What happened to the 3 or 4 other lynches you mentioned in . Why not talk about them, or do they not exist?

Either you're ignoring the fact that I had claimed when people started to unvote(which would imply they believed the claim or felt comfortable with it) or you're ignoring the fact that votes shifted to malp quickly because a) he was an easy target to wagon on because b) there was almost no time left in the day, even after an extension and because c) he wasn't around to defend himself. Neither would suggest my wagon falling apart because I'm scum, as you seem to imply. In fact, IME, most scum wagons in the early-game fall apart before a claim, rather than after. Scum don't want to be pinned into a claim so early in the game and so most scum partners would try to derail it halfway through, even subtly. Basically no one in the game was trying to actively or subtly derail my wagon D1.

Also, this is definitely not the town!Lowell I remember from our last game together. You've lurked 24/7(this matches up slightly), have less posts than some replacements, and have done generally nothing, even going as far as to admit to not having a case for your vote, even though you imply you have others you want to lynch more than myself. There's no reason for me to think you're town here. But if you are, thanks for being a team player lmfao. :roll:

VOTE: Thor665 but this can go to Lowell if he keeps up the shit play.
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Post Post #849 (isolation #36) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:14 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 846, aronagrundy wrote:
In post 811, Saru wrote: Nothing, that's the point. He's been about tunneling Karnos since he first replaced in. It's almost as bad as Grey who had his head up his ass about wanting to lynch me. Let me ask you this: what do you think about Thor's play with Karnos and what do you think about both of them in general?
Ok first of all why you using tunneling as a reason for your scumread when you yourself said Grey did the same thing? Also my original bolded question was in reference to you saying that thor is using your logic. What logic? When? I mentioned before that you have been shying away from this claim.

I think karnos is town, mostly because I think you're scum. I don't think two scumbuddies go through an argument like you two did. While I don't like the whole deal with the hypocrisy about townreads, I don't like your move onto thor and I still don't like how you're continuing it.

As for thor, I'm leaning scum but not as strongly as you. I think he harped too much on karnos and I actually don't like the timing of his flip onto the mal wagon very much. I'm not sure how well you and him work together as a scumteam, but looking over his iso he's been very quiet as to how he reads you at the moment (I think in post 756 he implies you're null/town but who knows) and fairly quiet (almost dismissive actually) about your case on him so I don't think him trying to distance himself from you is out of the question.
My main concern with Thor tunneling Karnos was that it stemmed from my feeling that he was using my arguments about Karnos' contradiction about not sharing town-reads. It's a mix between the tunneling and the feeling that I'm being buddied. Hell, you say it yourself, that Thor seems to be "quiet as to how he reads you at the moment" and "almost dismissive...about your case on him" which is basically how I feel, hence why I feel I'm being buddied. Grey was a different story in that he was tunneling me like an idiot, but just tunneling itself isn't enough for me to scum read him. Otherwise, I'd have to scum read myself for tunneling Karnos at the start, no? :P

I've already talked about the arguments he was using like twice during D1, so no, I haven't been shying away from any claim.
In post 519, Saru wrote: No, I thought Karnos was scum for maybe a couple of days. But recently, I've thought about why Thor is basically taking up my argument and trying to use it against Karnos. Like I'm not ego-tistic, upon re-read, I can see me being superficial in my arguments against Karnos. I don't feel great about Karnos, but I feel even worse about Thor right now.

As for what arguments, basically everything. The part about Karnos being hypocritical based on the iron townread and the exception and all that. He's just more articulate with them.
Bolded just for you.

Also, if Thor and myself are distancing, like you believe, then why are you so worried about me attacking Thor? Or even the kinds of "logic" I use for my attacks on him? Your worry should be about getting both of us lynched since both of us are scum. If you believe what you say, then instead of harping on me for harping on Thor, how about you help me bus my own partner? I'm voting him, no? Or are you now going to make the excuse that I'm scum whose trying to lynch town!Thor?
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Post Post #853 (isolation #37) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:07 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 850, aronagrundy wrote:You could be trying to lynch town!thor, or trying to bus!thor, but I'm going to vote you for an empty case regardless. Like I said, I'm much more unsure about thor, but I'm going with my strongest scumread right now, which is you.
So if Thor got more votes, would you vote him instead? Not sure how you can be "much more" unsure about someone, but still have someone else as your strongest scumread. Your thought process is off here, and doesn't make me feel good about you.
In post 852, aronagrundy wrote:actually no that doesn't feel right. Clearly he would have failed at buddying you if you wanted him dead. What would being dismissive of you even accomplish? If he was so caught up on getting you to trust him, he would want to respond.
No one says he isn't responding, because he does respond to my questions for him and my accusations, for that matter. But his responses to me seem to come off as too gentle. Like he gives Karnos a hard time if Karnos accuses him of something, but I usually don't get the same treatment. It just feels wrong and slimy.

And it's also interesting to note that while the wagon on me built up, Thor never really attempted to derail it or stick up for me. For all the town read he gives me, I found it odd how Thor stayed his hand in coming to my aid. Even a simple "hey guys, Saru probably isn't scum because X Y Z" would have sufficed. Like he's low-key ok with me being lynched, although he town reads me.
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Post Post #855 (isolation #38) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:25 pm

Post by Saru »

I actually don't get what you take an issue with. You seem to agree that the tunnel on Karnos is foolish("[Thor] harped too much on Karnos"), but give me a hard time because I give Thor a hard time about that same exact tunnel. Forget for a second about the whole "copying me" point I brought up. Strip that away, and what's your actual issue with my take on Thor's insistence to lynch Karnos? In your own view, it should be nothing, yes? If there is (besides the copying argument), then let me know, because you've lost me now.

I just don't see how my other argument about the buddying/copying would make me scum more than it could possibly make Thor scum for a tunnel, you, yourself don't like. Like your whole thought process confuses me. Even if I had never said Thor was copying me, would you agree he's scummy for harping on Karnos?
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Post Post #856 (isolation #39) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:27 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 854, aronagrundy wrote:Ok let me rephrase then: I feel confident about my scumread on you. I do not feel as confident about thor. I think you're caught on the phrase "more unsure."
Hey now, you said it, not me. :P
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Post Post #863 (isolation #40) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:22 am

Post by Saru »

In post 756, Thor665 wrote:So my response post is so bad as to need a call out, and Saru is scum for the brilliant case of "in general" and you're going to stick on Saru as opposed to coming at me?
This wasn't much of a defense of me more than it was an attack on Grey for being inconsistent.
In post 722, Fire Assassin wrote:Like right now I am leaning invest Thor/Saru, Prot Nero/Ice, and killing any of the lurkers.
Thor665 wrote:Make it a kill Karnos and drop Saru for PP or Grey and I'm good with this.
Not sure how saying to drop me out of being investigated is stopping my wagon?
In post 691, Thor665 wrote:
In post 669, PenguinPower wrote:Ugh...I hate agreeing with Iron and I feel icky voting with karnos.

VOTE: Saru
Then...don't?
Again, you're not saying "don't vote Saru" here explicitly. Note the first sentence of the Penguin quote, that's what you're referring to when you say "Then...don't?" You're more confused that Penguin is voting with people he hates agreeing with and feels icky about than confused about his voting me.

These examples don't really mean anything in regards to my actual wagon from D1.
Thor665 wrote:And, while we're at it, you're complaining that I didn't question your push on me - while *still* dodging the question I asked both you and Ice - wherein I asked you to back up what thoughts I "copied" because if I copied your thoughts, then by that same definition you copied mine - which makes your push silly, and I've straight up said as much to you and you refused to engage and throw this dreck at me like it means anything.
No, I know you're questioning my push onto you (you're doing it right now lmfao) and that helps to take away the buddying perception I have of you. Even if I didn't have the buddying feelings that come from using the same arguments(regardless of who said what first), my main issue with you is still your push onto Karnos, which seems like it's possibly going nowhere. In fact, you summed up your case about Karnos in the post above this, so if people read it and still aren't convinced, would you be willing to stop chasing Karnos for the time being, because there isn't much you can do at that point if people won't listen, yeah?

Knowing that an experienced player like Grey was silly enough to tunnel me and still flipped town actually works in your favor. But I'd like to know if you'll ever drop Karnos if people just don't see/agree with what you're saying.
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Post Post #865 (isolation #41) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:31 am

Post by Saru »

In post 862, Lowell wrote:@Nero, the case on saru is that we nearly lynched him yesterday as a compromise candidate, only to have a new wagon form out of nowhere on a complete lurker at the last minute. At no point during the day prior to that did I see any wagon form that fast. I admit it's circumstantial but it's also legit. Basically, what about saru's D1 play would create the urgency with which his wagon was derailed unless scum was doing it for some reason.
Yeah, this isn't reasoning I see town!Lowell using. This is a weak reason to vote the leading wagon. Also, you conveniently ignore my post() about you where I ask about your other lynches and where I point out how my wagon couldn't have dissipated because I'm scum, but because of the circumstances at hand.
Lowell wrote:
In post 861, Thor665 wrote:
I couldn't describe the Saru case for the life of me - I think the theory is that I'm his partner or something, while being accused of both buddying him, and not defending him. Your guess is better than mine. I kind of look forward to if anyone takes you up on the bulletpoint though.
Also, this from thor about saru makes me think thor is one of his buddies. Not particularly subtle deflection. Looks like they can't decided whether to bus each other.
Oh, really? But I thought that my "buddies" were the ones who were trying to derail my wagon from D1, no? Thor never makes an attempt at this, as I pointed out previously.

Your only looking for reasons to support your scum read of me at this point, rather than having any legitimate ones. I can't see how someone like you can lurk and then come back and be like "oh I think the leading wagon is a great choice because...no case or reason...just a feeling." You have no worries or commentary about other events or players? Like you literally admit you have no case on me, but are still voting me. I'm praying for this town that you're scum, because if you're town and using this kind of reasoning, then so help us god.
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Post Post #866 (isolation #42) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:35 am

Post by Saru »

Like, holy shit, Lowell's ISO is not only dismal, but his last two posts are so herp derp...I can't even. This scum lurker 101 needs to be lynched.
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Post Post #868 (isolation #43) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:51 am

Post by Saru »

In post 867, Thor665 wrote:@Saru - you're still ducking defending your weak case and now you're acting like I *am* coming at your case, while still ducking it and then still somehow suggesting some weird issue. You weren't this dancy with Karnos, why are you poncing around me while other people are selling this derp buddy thing that you are *also* selling. It's not coming from my direction at all.
What? I'm not ducking anything or being dancy. Did you read what I said? My case for you had two parts: the Karnos tunnel and the buddying. I clearly said that if I didn't feel you were buddying me, I would still be confused why you're tunneling Karnos when there's no indication he's going to be lynched. Are you just waiting for people to magically hop on the Karnos wagon or something? Serious question.
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Post Post #870 (isolation #44) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:59 am

Post by Saru »

In post 869, Lowell wrote:@Saru- As the "leading wagon" you had one vote. Now you have two. Yesterday I did you far worse. That all of a sudden this bothers you says more about you than me.
What the fuck kind of logic is this. You did me far worse? What the hell? You're railing on a person who has already had a wagon on them and then claimed VT. Like, for fucks sake, how can you even wonder why my wagon would dissipate? We were given an extension, and people took advantage of that to vote elsewhere. Why are you so keen on ignoring my post where I address all this? This is the second time you've done this. What bothers me is that you're actively ignoring what I'm saying and then acting like I shouldn't be upset or bothered.
Lowell wrote:Also stuff like this: "I'm praying for this town that you're scum, because if you're town and using this kind of reasoning, then so help us god," I hate more than anything. If you're town, vote who you think is scum, don't coach. At best this is a deflection so that if you get your way, and I'm lynched, you can say "oh, well, he was a terrible player anyway, so good riddance." If you lynch a "bad" player who flips town, that's your fault, not theirs.
Guess what, I'm voting you. I'm not coaching anyone. If I were coaching, I'd tell you to stop being so stupid, but I know that town!Lowell is more reasonable than this. lol @ "deflection." I guess then that Grey was scum who was "deflecting" when he voted malp for the sole reason of being a lurker, like yourself.
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Post Post #885 (isolation #45) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:16 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 883, aronagrundy wrote:The whole copying thing is just part of why I'm voting you. I don't get your logic but that's not good enough of a reason to vote you. It's the fact that you brought it up under pressure and refused to respond to people asking you to clarify. And then you only actually acted on your scumread of thor once a wagon on you came up. I'm seeing scum that got pushed into a corner and is trying to avoid any more pressure. (the fact that your wagon got replaced with one on a town lurker doesn't help either)
As to your first point about bringing it up under pressure, it would seem silly for me to do that as scum given the situation. I actually was under no pressure by Grey, because Grey was only pushing me with only 1 vote on me. I couldn't feel pressure from him even if I wanted to. There was no indication I was going to be lynched when Grey was pushing on me or that his push would even lead to my lynch, so me revealing how I was feeling Thor those past couple of days couldn't possibly have anything to do with pressure. It could just be, oh, you know, my actual feelings? :P

As scum in that situation, I would have just eternally kept up on Karnos (he was the leading wagon, after all) and would have either dismissed Grey or just blatantly link him as a partner to Karnos. I don't see a world in which myself as scum does what I did there given the situation at the time which was vote off Karnos and then move onto Knight/Thor. It doesn't add up, frankly.

You're asking me to clarify the arguments about Karnos, yeah? Thor was the first to bring up the iron townread contradiction(that was my mistake), but even if you take that away, I'm not a happy camper with his push on Karnos, as you also don't seem to be. So if your problem this whole time has been that, then yes, Thor did bring it up first, and I missed that. Still not ok with him though.

And finally, you talk about my wagon being "replaced" by a town lurker. Lowell makes this point as well and I responded to him about this in (which he conveniently ignored and continues to ignore). Do read it.
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Post Post #886 (isolation #46) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:21 pm

Post by Saru »

Oh, and to add to that last point about the wagon going from me to malp at the last second, you were the fifth vote on the malp wagon, and so for you to say that it bothers you how that wagon switch happened makes zero sense. You literally contributed to the wagon that makes you suspicious of me. Like lol. You're kind of implicating yourself there.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #47) » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:14 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 888, aronagrundy wrote:Paragraph 1: I mean yeah you had one vote but so what? grey came in with you as his strongest scumread.
And? One player strongly scum reading me would automatically result in me feeling under pressure or something? I had one vote, and so therefore, I had no real reason to feel pressure. You didn't disprove my original point.
In post 890, aronagrundy wrote:I mean I covered paragraph 3 already honestly. And honestly was it literally only the iron townread that you're claiming thor copied? You quoted yourself saying it was "everything" yesterday
Paragraph 3 is me just responding to you...so I'm not sure what's being covered lol. And when I said "everything" I really just meant two things:
Saru wrote:As for what arguments, basically everything.
The part about Karnos being hypocritical based on the iron townread and the exception and all that.
It might be the "all that" that you're bothered by, which is semantics, really. It was only the iron townread and the exception argument that I felt was being copied (although now I see that wasn't the case). Nothing else, to be perfectly clear.
aronagrundy wrote:I'm going to stop posting for the night after this, but the problem is that you kept on deflected from people asking you to clarify the original foundation of your case until like literally now
I wasn't deflecting anything. You've asked me questions, and I've responded when I've had the chance.

Both you and Grey asked me a similar question, and I gave both of you the same response. If you felt it was vague, then you could have told me to elaborate. Grey certainly never asked, and you turned it into me deflecting somehow.

Anyways, I'm really done arguing with you about this. We've made progress with each other in some regard, so that's good, I guess. Let me know when you want to return for our next therapy session together, thanks.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #48) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:36 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 926, Lowell wrote:Going to go back and look at D1 saru wagon dissolving into mal wagon next. I think it's an either/or situation though. Either this was a scumled derailment of saru-scum wagon or this lmk/alpaca lurker-alliance. But probably not both.
Hopefully you get around to not actively avoiding my . That'd be great.
ironstove wrote:I already indicated that flipping thor provides more information than nero at this stage of the game, so I'm not sure why you're asking me this question. You have it mixed up, nero being scum is contingent on thor being scum.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but all your scum reads are by association at this point, yeah?

What are your individual reasons for each scum read you have that don't include other people. For example, taking Nero out of the picture, why is Thor scum on his own? And then taking Thor out of the picture, why is Nero scum at all? I don't really understand either scum read of yours without the other being present, which is bleh.
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Post Post #970 (isolation #49) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:57 pm

Post by Saru »

Can we just lynch Lowell already? This guy is scum lurk to a T and just straight up ignores any post against him. Dire ISO.

Town apathy is strong at the moment, and is only getting worse.
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Post Post #981 (isolation #50) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:58 am

Post by Saru »

In post 974, Thor665 wrote:What makes Lowell scum lurk as opposed to your claim that town is being apathetic?
Town is being apathetic at the moment, but it really wasn't D1, where Lowell was still being a scum lurk. He's kept up the behavior since D1, in fact. It'd be different if he became a lurk just recently, as that could be chalked up to apathy, but that's not the case.
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Post Post #989 (isolation #51) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:55 am

Post by Saru »

In post 987, aronagrundy wrote:If he was rereading the thread, why didn't he notice that thor wasn't copying his argument? Something doesn't add up here.
I never said I re-read the entire thread. I was talking about looking back at my own posts. Look at again. I say "upon re-read, I can see
me
being superficial in my arguments against Karnos."

You're right, something doesn't add up here, and that's your argument against me lol.
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Post Post #995 (isolation #52) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:02 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 992, aronagrundy wrote:Unless the second bullet point was directed to me about my case on saru? The fact that I had to spend part of day 1 and the beginning of day 2 to get info that hurt his case (
when he could have just responded day 1 when I first asked him about his stuff on thor
) is more worrying than him just having a weak argument.
Or maybe I just missed it? Ever thought of that? Looking through your ISO, you first had a question for me about Thor in , which, yes, I didn't answer, but not because I was "dodging". I actually didn't see it until I just went into your ISO. The second time you ask me (which I thought was the first time) is in , but I couldn't answer because I wasn't around (explained this already). In fact, my last post from D1 is .

So, since I wasn't around, I couldn't have answered a question I didn't even know existed. To further prove my point about this, notice my very first post on D2 (). Guess what? It was a reply to the question that you're claiming I was trying to dodge or something stupid.

Lastly, you really are making a superficial argument against me at this point. You're looking at action, but not motivation. There's no scum motivation for me to ignore your question one time and then answer it when you ask again. If anything, that only makes me look bad. You think that I think I can get away with straight up not responding to people or something? You make it sound like you asked me about Thor like 10 million times before I responded, when really, it was only twice. There's no dodging or avoiding anything there, otherwise, I'd just keep doing it, which, again, makes no sense from any perspective.
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #53) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:18 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1012, aronagrundy wrote:@saru: My argument is that you felt pressure to give more scumreads after grey showed up and started yelling at you (at that point you really only were saying karnos was scum) and felt the karnos wagon wasn't going to last so you threw out thor with bad reasoning. You hopped on the knight wagon because it showed potential but once FA claimed, you switched to the only other scumread you put out that wasn't karnos, thor. You changed your reasoning to disagreeing with his push on karnos (reasoning that was already said by others) and never referred to your original reasoning, because you knew it didn't hold up.
This is a lot of baseless speculation on your part about how I felt. You say the Karnos wagon wasn't going to last, but you can't prove that. I had no reason to move off of Karnos as scum. His wagon was going fine, and one person coming in (who never questioned the wagon btw) questioning me about my ISO being full of Karnos wouldn't be enough to make me stop as scum. No pressure existed, so you can stop acting like it did, thanks.

Also, I hopped off the FA wagon because he started actually doing something with the slot he replaced into. Notice that I voted for Knight for his lacking posts, which FA made up for. How scummy of me to hop off the wagon of a slot which starts doing the opposite of what I scum read it for! :O

I also did not change my reason on the Thor push. If I knew it wouldn't hold up from D1 (as you say), I would have conveniently dropped it D1 and replaced it with something else, which is not what happened. I had a two part reason for not feeling good about Thor from D1. I would have gotten rid of the "copying" argument much earlier, according to your logic.
aronagrundy wrote:Also yes I think that ignoring people can be a valid strategy for scum because scum benefits from not providing too much information, and sometimes people don't follow up on questions or they're just afterthoughts. Also yes I get you responded to my question right away d2 but you never actually gave examples and it took you until post 885 to actually respond which is why I was saying you were deflecting.
Except it's been established that I didn't ignore you, so you can drop that argument.

"People don't follow up on questions" is a rare occurrence, and by any measure, risky for scum to bet on.

The part about not providing examples is also silly, because you had asked me what I thought Thor was doing, and I pointed out that his tunnel on Karnos made it so that he was essentially doing nothing. What example would you have wanted at the time for such an answer...his whole ISO? :roll:

Your argument is a mish-mash of pretty much nothing. Something about Thor, something about pressure, something about deflecting. I feel like I'm going in a circle with you with the same arguments, and at this point, I'm actually thinking of ignoring you in regards to this argument because it isn't progressing us at all. Stop beating a dead horse.
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Post Post #1106 (isolation #54) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:35 am

Post by Saru »

In post 1103, Lowell wrote:Just a reminder that saru is still scum. Also saru's latest interaction with aron looks like a distancing ploy. Still, lmk first.
I think that's like the fourth time you've refused to address my post talking about why your case is bollocks. Probably because you can't refute it.

Make a bad case, ignore response to it, and lurk 24/7. Yeah, no way you're not scum.

Lynch this already.
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Post Post #1108 (isolation #55) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:00 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1107, Lowell wrote:Remind me, I'm a slow reader.
I'm sure you can read at a fine pace. You didn't have that issue in our last game together.

What's your response to ? You admitted you have no case on me, but just a "feeling" in in regards to the malp wagon, just for context.
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #56) » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:58 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1124, Lowell wrote: I saw the claim, but I don't understand what you think it means. You're saying your VT claim is so airtight that everyone just up and decided you must be town? To your points, I would say: (a) you were an even EASIER wagon since you were almost dead and claimed VT, (b) why move from a VT claim to an unknown lurker at the last minute?, and (c) who would have it in their interest to move to an unknown lurker over you (who can defend himself, as you say) at the last minute if you're town?

Basically, I don't see how the following narrative: "I almost got lynched right at deadline, claimed VT, then a powerwagon instantly formed on a lurker who can't defend himself" absolves you.
You also haven't explained how it makes me scum, now have you?

Interestingly enough, it seems you yourself don't think that the wagon forming on the lurker was done by any potential scum partners, even though you imply this over and over. You're voting for LMK, someone who wasn't even on the wagon, when you should be voting for either me or anyone who WAS on the wagon, if you're so sure I'm scum who got away D1. Care to list the people on the malp wagon who wanted to protect me from being lynched? Because I haven't seen you actually do that, rather, you've tried to implicate me using other people's actions, while not listing those people.

You also dodged my point about how no one really came to my defense while my wagon was forming. Why would my partners allow me to claim D1 (on top of that a VT claim, which is stupid for scum) instead of just offering even a LITTLE bit of resistance? Again, last thing scum wants is being pinned into a claim D1.
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Post Post #1260 (isolation #57) » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:00 pm

Post by Saru »

Just peeking in to give
intent to hammer
.

I'll reply to Lowell and bji a bit later, been really busy recently.
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #58) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:17 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1203, Lowell wrote:Your scumpartners waited for you to claim so there would be a pretense for unvoting and/or starting a new wagon, is what I'm saying. And LMK did defend you by trying to derail your wagon by casting a naked vote for someone with no chance of being lynched at deadline (me). I made this point when casting the vote. Honestly you're not even trying at this point. The main point is you had a wagon with time running out, you claimed VT, which miraculously saved you and strung up a lurker. Even the way you were talking "well, I guess I'm about to die" and all that stuff looks in hindsight like a total put-on.
Your first sentence made zero sense. You're the one who's definitely not even trying anymore. But of course, you seem to love the pot calling the kettle black tactic. You did the same thing with calling me a lurker on D1 where you had like ten posts or something. You also dodged the point (again) about why my scum partners didn't come to my defense in the first place, instead of letting me even get to the claim stage.

Secondly, your vote on LMK doesn't match up at all with your feelings about me or the people who switched to the malp wagon. Not one bit. LMK DIDN'T defend me at all. Not in words, and not in vote, and you know this. The first person to even suggest the malp wagon was in fact Nero. LMK has had zero influence in that regard. You just needed to vote a player who was inactive to make sure you didn't get into conflict with anyone, and LMK was that guy. Everyone who was ACTUALLY on the malp wagon were either your buddies or people who were too vocal for you to have had challenged at the time.

Honestly, I feel like saying so much more but your arguments are so objectively bad and I just don't think I can keep arguing with such obvious scum. It's a real shame that we only have a couple of hours left, but I would implore people to lynch Lowell ASAP. We still have time, but, meh, maybe not enough given that his scum partners would most likely push back anyways.
In post 1281, Lowell wrote:Lurking doesn't make me scum, and you know it.
This guy just literally admitted to lurking. Lynch this please. Thanks.
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Post Post #1314 (isolation #59) » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:17 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1304, MathBlade wrote:Saru is strong town read.

Pretty much I think I can read you well.
I guess you can. :P
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Post Post #1339 (isolation #60) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:50 am

Post by Saru »

In post 1336, aronagrundy wrote:also saru is probably scum too for saying he'll hammer and promptly disappearing
No, I purposely chose not to hammer because I believed Thor's claim. Which I regret now.

Also, Lowell said he was going to hammer if I got cold feet, but never did. That pretty much confirms scum!Lowell to me. He's after Thor.
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Post Post #1342 (isolation #61) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:56 am

Post by Saru »

Becuase Lowell had said that he felt Thor was town REGARDLESS. Meaning, even before a claim. So what difference would the claim have made? Think about it.
In post 1267, Lowell wrote:I'll also hammer if scum-saru gets cold feet.
FTR I still don't think Thor is scum though
, would have been better to get saru or lmk today.
Bolded was BEFORE a claim. But he was still willing to hammer a non-scum read.
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Post Post #1346 (isolation #62) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:21 am

Post by Saru »

Thor claimed at like 6am my time (EST) when I was getting ready to head to college. I didn't see the claim until I left my class which was on my mobile 10 minutes before the deadline (I never mobile post, fwiw). I figured it would be better not to take the chance of lynching a PR, basically. Nothing more to it.
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Post Post #1381 (isolation #63) » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:32 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 1379, Lowell wrote:Let's do this, saru. Your flailing officially begins.
ewww more pot calling the kettle black tactics. You can stop now, it's getting gross.
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Post Post #1634 (isolation #64) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:07 am

Post by Saru »

Sorry about no posts yesterday. Had a cold sweat and nearly puked a couple of times. Feel much better now.

After catching up, I can see that Penguin is scum here. No two ways about it, honestly. Scum killing Arona last night means that scum knew that Arona was a PR, so it could only be Penguin or Karnos. And given that Karnos was added after Arona died, the scum has to be Penguin.

Penguin might say "well maybe the scum just happened to kill arona by coincidence" to which I would reply...no. You see, arona isn't the type of player who the scum would have targeted last night. Players like Math and bji are much more valuable to kill off since they're active and seem to have a good nose for scum overall. Arona tunneled me pretty much the entire game and scum would love nothing but town tunneling town, so no reason to kill him off other than they knew he was a PR.

Plus, Thor wanted Karnos 24/7 and Karnos wanted Thor nearly 24/7. Someone made the point that you don't tunnel your encryptor two days in a row, which is valid. So just on that front, Karnos would be town.

Not to mention that Penguin's arguments for scum!Karnos are hilariously bad. Like you seriously can't be arguing that what Karnos did yesterday was a scum quick-hammer. Like, no. Thor was obvious scum and pretty much everyone wanted him dead. Scum quick-hammers usually come with the caveat that no one was expecting it, but I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be surprised that obvious scum!Thor would be hammered that quickly. This isn't even something you could argue.

So, whose the third partner? For me, it's down to Lowell or Nero, and given some of Nero's shit posts yesterday:
In post 1352, Nero Cain wrote:Bj can be town I guess.
Not going to put Thor in hammer range yet.
In post 1363, Nero Cain wrote:well unless something happens to the nk we lose a townie so
isn't that reason enough to not lynch Thor right off?
In post 1368, Nero Cain wrote:TBH Thor I see very little reason why we shouldn't lynch you today.
Convince me.
I'm heavily leaning towards Nero.
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Post Post #1832 (isolation #65) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:43 am

Post by Saru »

Here are my reads. Scummiest on top to towniest on bottom.
Penguin
Nero
Lowell
Iron
Karnos
Bji
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Post Post #1932 (isolation #66) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:34 am

Post by Saru »

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.
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Post Post #2019 (isolation #67) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:27 pm

Post by Saru »

VOTE: PenguinPower
Let's not let this obvious scum get away again.
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Post Post #2022 (isolation #68) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:05 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2021, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 2019, Saru wrote:Let's not let this obvious scum get away again.
Not obvscum as has been pointed out. Guessing you're likely the last scum at this point.
"As has been pointed out." lmfao

Stop flailing and die already you penguin scum. Seeing you get away yesterday was so cringe.
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Post Post #2024 (isolation #69) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:36 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2023, PenguinPower wrote:Yeah. The guy who died during the night did.

You're being so bad-obvious scum right now. Lurk the entire game - I mean who has less posts than vote counts - then start participating in Lylo pushing an easy mislynch.
I haven't lurked the entire game. Or at all. Posts are about quality, not quantity. You post a bunch of one-liners, congrats.

iron thinking you're town means nothing. Math thought Nero might have been scum, they were wrong. What's your point?

Also, you had no response to me calling you scum yesterday. Essentially, you agreed with me lmfao.
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Post Post #2027 (isolation #70) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:55 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2026, PenguinPower wrote:lulz...you think you've been making quality posts. How many of those "quality" posts did you make outside of D2?
In post 1932, Saru wrote:Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.
Top-notch quality right there.

I didn't respond to you calling me scum, because I already responded to the shit logic that you're using to base your claim on.
Yes, because I TOTALLY need to make a second post describing why I think you're scum? Like herp derp it's out there. What else was there for me to do yesterday?

Also, funny you call me the last scum when I call you scum. I wonder who else will become last scum if they vote you, eh? You have no case on me, but lurking. Weak as shit. And flailing as usual.
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Post Post #2030 (isolation #71) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:07 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2028, PenguinPower wrote:And your case on me is the herpidie derpidie dumb "Aron was killed so PP has to be scum" case.

My turn to do that:
In post 1634, Saru wrote:Arona tunneled me pretty much the entire game and scum would love nothing but town tunneling town, so no reason to kill him off other than they knew he was a PR.
And scum!Saru would want to get town tunneling scum out of the game! Bonus to be able to push a mislynch following. What luck!
Except you miss the part where arona had basically 0 influence. No one agreed with arona about me on the day before she was killed. Why kill someone whose tunnel wasn't even working? Your logic is faulty.

Keep trying though. It's fun to watch you try hard.
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Post Post #2032 (isolation #72) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:08 am

Post by Saru »

Ah, name-calling, what scum resorts to when they can't counter your arguments.
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Post Post #2036 (isolation #73) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:19 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2033, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 2030, Saru wrote:Except you miss the part where arona had basically 0 influence. No one agreed with arona about me on the day before she was killed. Why kill someone whose tunnel wasn't even working? Your logic is faulty.
Um...because if they keep pushing it, eventually people will join. Why not get rid of that attention, MM?
Listen herp derp, you know as well as I do that just tunneling alone doesn't get someone lynched. I know you need to reach here, but atleast TRY to make a competent argument?

arona had arguments for why they thought I was scum. People read them, didn't agree, and moved on. Simply put, you don't waste your kill as scum on someone who no one listens to. Especially not when you have people like Math in the game, who are much more persuasive.

But you do use your kill on someone who you know is a PR, like you knew arona was.
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Post Post #2039 (isolation #74) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:08 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2037, PenguinPower wrote:After this, I'm done interacting with your MM-ass. Town can make their own decisions, but I'm done with you.

I've already explained why scum being in the neighborhood is a good thing, so scum!me wouldn't want to kill off arona. As karnos can confirm, arona was suspecting people that would help scum!me, so again, I wouldn't want to kill him off. Arona thought I was town, and that would be good for scum!me.

What you, and everyone else, are discounting is the possibility of an investigative scum role (e.g. Neapolitan) that would just have returned that arona wasn't vanilla. Scum wouldn't know he was a neighborizer, just a PR. That would make scum want to kill him off. Or, as I said above - and you are trying to brush aside - is the fact that arona continuing the tunnel would be bad for you.

The "arona died, PP is scum" case is weaker than "arona died because he was tunneling Saru," because the former is a net loss for scum, while the latter is a net gain. If town lynches me based on the "arona died" argument then they deserve to lose.

Peace, MM.
No, it wouldn't be a net gain for me to kill someone who no one was listening to when they were yelling for my head, period. That's straight up a waste of a kill. Don't dodge that fact. My scum partners would have had a better time just getting arona off me by persuading her the other way. Like, that's scum 101.

I doubt that a scum Neapolitan just happened to pick arona and found out they were a PR and then kill arona at the same time you would have. Too much of a coincidence. Simplest explanation: your scum.

I don't even know if a Neapolitan would work in this setup. I don't know anything about game setups, so I'll default to others on that.

P-edit: Not sure about partner. At this point, it could be anyone. I want to say Lowell, but he also suspects Penguin, but maybe a bus? Penguin was basically dead yesterday, so I don't see his partner attempting to defend him anyways.
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Post Post #2040 (isolation #75) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:08 am

Post by Saru »

UNVOTE: PenguinPower
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Post Post #2042 (isolation #76) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:15 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2041, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 2038, MathBlade wrote:@PP @Saru Please unvote this is MyLO. Assume you are right about your first person who is their partner?

Wtf about 5 town roles? So the question becomes did scum target me or stove?
Meh...it takes 4 to lynch. Scum can't run this up for the win.

UNVOTE:

Scum targeted ironstove.
He already said he didn't want to use his power because he didn't want to leave the game. Sara and karnos killed him because he would have resisted my mislynch today, while you wouldn't.
First off, no one can prove that.

Secondly, cut the bullshit. Here's what iron said:
In post 1808, ironstove wrote:I'll revisit penguin if nero flips town.
So, no, he wouldn't have resisted shit. I'm not saying that scum killed iron, idk that for a fact, but if anything, you would have been the one to kill him as scum. Why the fuck would I kill iron as scum when he said he would revisit you if nero flipped town. I could have easily got him on my side in that case.

Like, damn, did you ignore all of yesterday? Or are you still flailing?
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Post Post #2043 (isolation #77) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:18 am

Post by Saru »

Actually, come to think of it, killing neither iron OR math would have been in my best interest as scum. iron would have revisited you after town!nero flip and Math already had it out for you but switched to Nero at the last minute. I could have easily gotten both of them to my side to get you lynched.

However, killing Math or iron would have worked out just fine and dandy for you instead. So, if you're really going to go there, you just implicated yourself. Good job.
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Post Post #2047 (isolation #78) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:07 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 2044, MathBlade wrote:Again. You both do not answer the question.

If you are right about each other who is that person's partner?
After looking through the ISOs, it's definitely Lowell. Quote me on that for endgame.
bji wrote:Saru's case on Penguin is bad. Additionally, it's ???weird??? that Saru is so active today after doing almost nothing yesterday. What lit a bug under your butt Saru?
Is it the excitement of being one mislynch away from a win?
ugh stop with that shit. What exactly was I to do yesterday anyways? First off I had a busy weekend, but also, both of my top 3 scum reads were up on the chopping block yesterday for pretty much the entire day. Did you want me to come in and yell "woot" or something? Math had ask for a list of my reads and I provided. And then I noted I'd prefer penguin but nero was ok too. Nero turned out town so now it's penguin that I definitely want. If you want to know the bug, it's the fact that obvious flailing scum got away yesterday. Heck, even iron said he only town read Penguin yesterday(after reading him as scum for years) because the flailing looked so "authentic", which is laughable. Shit like that annoys me.

And as if Penguin's case on me is any good...:lol: His case on me is lurking, which then he should be calling Lowell my partner instead of Karnos. And then even his NK speculation doesn't hold up in logic, as I pointed out.

You know, it's funny. Penguin says Karnos and I are scum. That makes zero sense. Karnos and I got into a huge fight D1 and then I started tunneling Thor which then got Karnos calling both Thor and me scum, but then eventually Thor scum and me probably town. And then Thor started calling me town and Karnos scum. Like if you read all that, it makes zero sense that Karnos and I could have been scum with Thor. It's like a three-way fuckfest of bussing that would eventually lead to one of us getting lynched anyways, which is stupid since Karnos and I risked our encryptor big time. Especially doing such a thing on D1 and into D2 is like downright stupid.

Another thing: I'm pretty damn sure at this point Lowell is the partner. Besides the fact that Penguin pairs me with Karnos instead of Lowell, if you look through the ISOs of the people who can be scum and who still live, there are only 2 people in the game who never ever voted for Thor until he was confirmed scum, DING DING DING: Penguin and Lowell. Actually, they never even voted Tracer who Thor replaced. Even I voted Tracer at one point. Here's the kicker: Lowell got cold feet and never hammered Thor even though he promised he would, so he hadn't voted Thor even once in the game. Penguin only voted him when he was confirmed. There's a reason why they never touched him: they needed the day-talk. Can't lose that, now can they? Also, something I never noted until a quick re-read, penguin defended Thor pretty damn hard from Iron around the early-mid 900s.

Plus, I can't forget the fact that Lowell attacking me earlier in the game was as scum as it gets. Like holy shit. His attacks were just a bunch of hypocritical attacks about lurking (when he was the #1 lurker and still is) and he avoided addressing my points about the mal wagon for ages.

Like, honestly, I don't know how much more shit I have to point out to show scum!Penguin. I'll leave it up to Math, but remember Math, you had Penguin nailed yesterday and then you gave the benefit of the doubt to iron and then lynched town. That rings a bell in my head of our last game where you nailed me and then let me go as scum. Just, don't fuck this up again, please.

I'll let ma boi iron get the last word here:
In post 951, ironstove wrote:Oh that's right, you have none, because you were lollygagging all of D1 and were perfectly fine with a mislynch taking place, you have applied 0 pressure onto others, and all you've done is come by making negative comments about why cases are bad while doing 0 scum hunting yourself, providing 0 reads, providing 0 cases on who you think is scum.

Reading through your ISO, you're literally just posting filler, 0 content, 0 anything, same as the last time you were scum.
Well fucking said.
In post 952, ironstove wrote:
You legit think I'm the most scummy of all the players in this game, then I've obviously hit gold with my thor lynch, is he your mafia PR or something?


I find it hilarious you find me scummy, under what grounds? You don't like my reasons for wanting to lynch thor? Oh, well, that makes sense.
Bless his poor soul. He knew. :(
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #79) » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:05 pm

Post by Saru »

Not sure how Lowell sees bji as a lurker. Said the same about me. The self-awareness game is weak with this one.
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Post Post #2082 (isolation #80) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:11 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2074, PenguinPower wrote:VOTE: Lowell
Notice how fast he jumps on voting Lowell when Math wants Lowell gone?
In post 2077, PenguinPower wrote:Nah. It's pretty simple. FMPOV it's you/Saru or Saru/karnos. Saru/karnos requires massive bussing from all scum throughout the game, with a risky D2 play. If they did that, gg. However, looking at the same end of day VCs, you and Saru make more sense. D1 you end up on Saru with only one other person/Saru on Thor with one other - weak bus - and town gets lynched with one scum on. D2 Saru ends up on you with only one other. No scum on Thor, push into no lynch. D3 doesn't matter since Thor was the obv!lynch. D4, both you and Saru park on an easy mislynch for the day and are content to let town rip each other apart while you lurk. D5, you both show back up.

Nah. It's more likely you and Saru.
He went from a Saru/Karnos to a Saru/Lowell team in the blink of an eye. How? He talks about the whole "massive bussing" THAT I POINTED OUT! How is he just NOW seeing it and not when he was calling me and Karnos scum before? Oh, that's right, because before he was pulling a scum team out of his ass, like a flailing scum does. He's essentially making up teams to appease Math, like Lowell said. Next, for example, if Math says she wants to lynch bji, then Penguin will probably come up with some half-assed excuse to link bji with someone else to push the lynch. :lol:

Also, remember when he promised to tunnel Karnos today if Nero flipped town yesterday? Good times.

Like something is totally off here. Either he's hoping bji gives him town cred for bussing his partner tomorrow (since Math is likely dead tonight), or Penguin/Karnos is a team. I doubt the latter, since Lowell keeps his options open between Penguin and Karnos, rather than just Penguin. But in the extreme case that it is the latter, I want Penguin gone first.

bji can make the judgement call on the partner tomorrow. I don't see bji as scum in any practical scenario, especially not after what he did with Thor, so I'm fine with giving him the hammer tomorrow.
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Post Post #2083 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:12 am

Post by Saru »

Also, whoops, meant to write "they" instead of "she" when referring to Math. My apologies.
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Post Post #2086 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 2085, karnos wrote:I'm good with lowell. Only question in my mind is whether it's lowell/saru or lowell/penguin.

Saru, primary problem with your play is you seemed to be very active early on pushing me, then after you came to your senses and moved off my wagon you didn't really do anything else the rest of the game.

Penguin's main suspect comes from his hard push to defend Thor, but it can be somewhat mitigated by his push to protect Nero. While there has been plenty of play from his slot that makes me think he rolled scum, he is indeed actually playing the game, not just lurking it out like Saru.
First off, I'm not really lurking. I'm very much here, aren't I? I will admit, the meat world is a bummer. :P

Secondly, if you think Penguin's play means he rolled scum then how much he is actually playing makes no difference. Surely, you'd see that his activeness comes in the form of mainly one-liners that don't say much? iron sure seemed to think so. Compare with my posts that seem to have actual substance (and I'll admit, they're sparse in terms of quantity, but that's irrelevant to the point) that try to figure out motives of people (i.e. Thor and Karnos) rather than just baseless accusations (like Lowell and Penguin). Surprisingly (or not), Penguin's posts only get
slightly
bigger as he starts being suspected from yesterday. Substance from defense rather than from scum-hunting. Not very good substance, imo.

Lastly, I wouldn't be too excited about lynching Lowell today. Both Penguin and Lowell are scummy as fuck, and one of them has to go today, but Penguin seems to be better at escaping the noose compared to Lowell. He's done it two days in a row now. No offense to bji, but I don't see Penguin necessarily being lynched tomorrow. Instead, I predict more flailing and emotional BS that will let him win it all. I would not be a happy camper. But hey, I would love to be wrong.
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Post Post #2093 (isolation #83) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:07 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2091, karnos wrote:It doesn't really mean anything. Scum or Town penguin would act the same way in this case, so it doesn't tell us anything new.
It doesn't matter if both scum or town Penguin would do such a thing, because it's about the timing.

Penguin chose Lowell/Saru as his team (and voted Lowell) only AFTER Math chose to want to lynch Lowell. The question is, why move away from a Saru/Karnos team at that time? One could say "oh well maybe he saw your post and understood that a Karnos/Saru team would make no sense because of the bussing factor" to which I would respond: then why was Penguin pushing a team who he had done no research about and also, why would he believe someone who he is scum reading to convince him of a different team? Maybe Karnos IS my partner, and I've successfully fooled Penguin into thinking otherwise?

Furthermore, why would Penguin not instead say a Karnos/Lowell team since he promised to bus Karnos today? The answer is simple: he needs Karnos on his side tomorrow after he buses his partner. Penguin knows his partner is doomed today because everyone is saying Lowell is scum (otherwise he'd want to win the game right away by finishing me off like he was trying to earlier), and he can't defend him, so he has to lynch him. And he won't include Karnos in his scum list or push him because he needs Karnos on his side tomorrow. He puts me in as the partner because he knows I'll never lynch bji or Karnos, so there's no point in trying to appease me. It's really the only option he has left. I'm sure the original plan was to try and get Karnos or myself lynched today, but Lowell getting caught out ruined that.

Anyways, Penguin's point about my "inane drivel" is hilarious. It's inane drivel because it's about him. Or maybe he needs an excuse not to respond to it, because he can't. ;)

I would be fine with a Lowell lynch today, but the one thing I would request is that Math/bji pick who they think the third partner is. The reason is because nothing will change tomorrow from today. Lowell will flip scum, Math will die, and we'll be back to where we were at the start of this day with Penguin and I calling each other scum. The difference will be that our IC will be dead, and they'll have no input on the lynch process. So it's better now that Math/bji agree on a third partner and they be lynched tomorrow straight away. Any discussion that would happen tomorrow about the last scum can happen today since we still have like a week left. Unless either of you think that some new discussion will arise tomorrow that wouldn't or couldn't be discussed today?
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Post Post #2096 (isolation #84) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:34 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2094, bji wrote:@Saru: why do you want Math and I to pick the last lynch and announce it today?
You don't have to, but there's no point in figuring out the last scum tomorrow, because there will be no new information to go off of. Might as well do it today while Math is around to give their input. I'm still going to vote Penguin tomorrow and he's probably going to vote me tomorrow, so it'll end up with you guys having to pick between us anyways. Any discussion that Penguin and I would have tomorrow could also happen today, if you get what I mean.

This is all assuming we actually lynch Lowell and he flips scum. If he flips town, it's game over anyways.
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Post Post #2135 (isolation #85) » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:57 am

Post by Saru »

Penguin, you're really cute when you try to associate me and Lowell. Lowell and I have been calling each other scum since D2, and he attacked me D2 and brought back up the fact that I wasn't lynched D1. No scum motivation in doing such a thing. Like, there was no need for a bus at that point in time, as the attention was off me and no point in bringing it back, especially negatively. In fact, all of D2, I spent my time attacking Thor and Lowell and trying to get them lynched. My two supposed partners, who I was offering as sacrificial lamb for...what reason now? Oh yeah, there is none. No motivation in that.
In post 811, Saru wrote:VOTE: Thor665 but this can go to Lowell if he keeps up the shit play.

^^^Pro bussing, amirite!? :lol:
Funny enough, the associations between Lowell and Penguin are clear-cut. They have 0 interactions with each other (no seriously, ISO both of them, it's crazy)...until today. Who would have thunk it?

And the beauty in all that, is that they're the only two people alive in the game who never voted Tracer/Thor and Penguin only votes Thor when he was confirmed, otherwise never really interacting much with him, instead, defending him TWICE, first from nero and then from bji. Penguin only calls Lowell scum today, and that too, AFTER Math wants him dead, alongside everyone else. Again, if you can't save your partner, next best thing is to lynch him and hope for the best. That's Penguin strategy right now.

A wise man (rb) once told me to look for associations in the scum that are dead, not the ones you suspect might be. Given the scum!Thor flip, I couldn't possibly be scum, given the lengths I went to, to get him lynched. But Penguin will never mention Thor, because he knows if he does, then me being scum is out of the picture. Which makes more sense as scum: you bus your encryptor three days in a row (apparently what I was doing), or you defend your encryptor three days in a row (what Penguin actually did)? Not hard to figure out.

Anyways, let's not delay shit anymore. I'm getting bored. Lowell needs to go and Penguin can go after.
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Post Post #2152 (isolation #86) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:38 am

Post by Saru »

VOTE: PenguinPower
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Post Post #2162 (isolation #87) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:38 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2161, PenguinPower wrote:Well, if you aren't going to, go ahead and lynch me so the game can be over. Please don't drag this day out.

Still think we should no lynch today.
In post 2086, Saru wrote:No offense to bji, but I don't see Penguin necessarily being lynched tomorrow.
Instead, I predict more flailing and emotional BS that will let him win it all.
I would not be a happy camper. But hey, I would love to be wrong.
lmfao this guy has zero arguments and is just hoping town starts doubting itself with his emotional crap. I've done that before as scum. Almost worked like a charm in my last scum game against rb.

And btw, responding to one of my SEVERAL arguments against you with meta is so bad. Like, hey, if you're going to use meta, then I can do the same, but it's useless. According to you, I've been bussing both my partners all game, but my last and only scum game on here shows that I never bus my scum partners, even when it would have been beneficial. The scum chat was sealed, but half of it is my partners and I talking about how stupid bussing is. Oh, hey, guess I'm town then!? :D :lol:

I agree with Penguin on one thing: let's not drag the day out. Like I said yesterday, any discussion to be had could have happened yesterday, but Penguin purposely chose to ignore me and is now trying for a hail mary today that he hopes to land. Don't let him, thanks.
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Post Post #2163 (isolation #88) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:42 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2153, PenguinPower wrote:I would, however, like to debate the idea of a no lynch today. 95% chance that means bji dies tonight, but it at least gets that 5% chance out of the way that he's been playing us all.
More like "I want to get bji out of the way because he's harder to convince than Karnos."
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Post Post #2165 (isolation #89) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:01 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2164, PenguinPower wrote:100% confident Saru is scum now.

I'm done, and quite honestly nothing I say will make a difference at this point. karnos and bji can decide what to do.


Saru is blacklisted for me. Totally an not-fun game when this guy posts.


VOTE: Saru
lololol keep it up. You're only proving my point for me. I love when scum freaks out when I nail them.

Oh, and you're only NOW 100% confident I'm scum? What about yesterday? Oh right, you were just making shit up yesterday.
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Post Post #2166 (isolation #90) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:03 am

Post by Saru »

Like, who blacklists another person in a mafia game for playing...the game? lmfao this is some straight up scum AtE. So funny.
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Post Post #2169 (isolation #91) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:25 pm

Post by Saru »

Stop crying and get over yourself. I understand it hurts when you finally get caught, but that's no reason to blacklist someone. You spent the whole game with no suspicion on you, and as soon as someone does, you get like triggered or something. Don't play mafia if you can't handle it.
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Post Post #2170 (isolation #92) » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:29 pm

Post by Saru »

In post 2168, PenguinPower wrote:Game was nice when he was lurking.
Yeah, must be real nice when no one calls you out on your BS. :lol:
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Post Post #2221 (isolation #93) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:41 pm

Post by Saru »

Congrats to the scum team. I called 2/3 by D2, which isn't bad for someone as shitty a town player as me. I'm happy I tried to actually engage in a fruitful conversation with arona when he started suspecting me, and not just start tunneling/suspecting him, which is what I might usually do lmfao. Somewhat of an improvement, I guess. Thor's WK'ing of me was obvious from a mile away, especially given what happened to me in Mini 1823. Lowell was obvious as shit, and his lurking was like 10x worse than it usually is, and he has stated before that he absolutely hates being scum. So all that in aggregate was his doom in my eyes.

bji did good with the bussing on Thor. I never bus (and probably never will) as scum, and I generally think it's a shitty idea, and so I started projecting my own (as I usually do) scum play onto others, which was silly. But in others way, bji did well, and I never really gave him any thought as a player until much later. So kudos.

I thought Penguin was actually getting all emotional and shit as scum because I thought he was trying something similar to what I did in my last scum game against rb, where I was being so overly dramatic and emotional to the point where 2 town players thought "no way scum plays like that, that's genuine town emotion" and I didn't want a repeat of that on me. Plus, penguin's defense of Thor didn't help him. And him getting away from the lynch like twice was eating at me. And a whole bunch of other stuff.

And, for the record Penguin, I never actually called you a "herp derp" in . I was using it as like "obviously" in relation to the posts I had made earlier about you being scum, although I can see how that could have been misread. Even if I was calling you a herp derp (which is not my style anyways), I don't really think it's much to get triggered over. Hardly an insult. And it's unfortunate you don't like my posting style, can't do much about that.

Anyways, thanks to Foxbird for modding! You were plentiful with the VCs, which is always nice to see! Great first time mod! :D
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Post Post #2233 (isolation #94) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:46 am

Post by Saru »

In post 2230, karnos wrote:I still can't believe that town saru and town nero let Thor escape with a no lynch. Come on! Even if you think he is town, he is obvious lynchbait the rest of the game, you don't just give scum a free night kill, you go ahead and reluctantly vote and hammer! Blah.
I never thought for once Thor was town. Like I had said before, I literally had 10 mins on my phone after my class to decide whether I wanted to hammer. Was also the first time I saw the claim he made. I was just scared of lynching a PR. NL was also bad but not gonna lie, deep down, I was hoping Lowell would have followed througb with his promise lmfao. Oh well.
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