Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[massive]

"Why would you be actively against people sheeping you [on page 2]" - obviously because it gives me no information.

Why would I be asking questions that give YOU information? In any event, voting for someone and then actively working against having other people vote alongside you could mean you voted for your scumbuddy and now OOPS people are gonna run him up, so you need to start working to save him. And the whole thing is patently ridiculous because you are OBVIOUSLY asking people to sheep you:

Oh no Kairal, I wasn't talking about Cerbieber, the C I meant literally claimed scum and did obvious scummy things in some weird WIFOM attempt and it actually worked on me for a while, which is why I'm never falling for that trick again. Cloud

Killer

is getting lunched today, no way out of that.

Question is, who's on the menu after that.

before deciding "oh no DON'T sheep me!" Your whole involvement with Cloudkicker could use some better explanation:

39: Cloudkicker definitely getting lynched, sheep me
49: I'm not gonna get you lynched Cloudkicker
51: It was all a reaction test!
65: I still think you're scum but again please don't sheep me on this
80: No really guys don't sheep me
154: Cloudkicker is probably town

"Is it important the order in which these things happened?" - how is that remotely relevant?

It might be, but I don't know yet. I haven't gotten an answer to the question.

Newman

that one is for you.

These are the exact sort of questions scum would be asking to distract people and appear helpful without actually getting any helpful answers.

Were they not relevant to the current discussion, that being Cloudkicker at that time? What exactly was I distracting people from?

Very interested what it is about my vote that makes me scum. And no, 157 isn't even remotely close. And no, trying to push the town based on 157 with no additional reasons is practically bullshit.

So, out of all possible people you could have voted, you dumped it on the most obvtown person in the game for literally no reason. And, if you actually meant it to be a *random* "not totally random" vote, that makes it even worse. What motivation could town possibly have to drop a vote like that? Like please walk me through it.

Despite what you may say, Kairal is not obvtown. At the time I was not happy with how he jumped on the Cloudkicker wagon due to the d9 slip, even despite it being explained to him how his view of the slip made absolutely no sense. It made it look like he wasn't concerned with his own reasons and was willing to jump on the CK wagon no matter what.

[massive]

There are no associative tells between town and anybody, so trying to use them as a method of scumhunting without, you know, having a scum to tie them to really isn't a thing.

Then what's it called when you're assuming someone's mafia and doing association from that? Is

that

confbias or just tunneling?

Tunneling to me is when you continuously read what one individual is doing as scummy no matter what, even stretching to include ridiculous mental gymnastics just to get them to line up with your view. Confbias can go either way, but is more widesweeping (using one "fact" to affect how you read other things) and can also apply to a townread. So I guess technically a confbias, but I'm like the last person to be an authority on Mafia terms. But I wanted to answer your question.

[-Grey-]

That's some semantics I really could care less for.

If you could care less, that means you care.

So... I concur.

[-Grey-]

Sheeping's just following someone else's vote.

Specifically it's seeing a wagon and voting on it without any sort of reason other than it's the top wagon.
There is a difference between agreeing and sweeping.

No there's not, but there

is

a difference between

concurring

and sheeping.

Concurring is literally defined as agreeing.
They are interchangeable synonyms.

Wrong. Concurring is agreeing with a different reason.

There's a difference.

[MiniDeathStar]

Why would I be asking questions that give YOU information?

That is so not what my point was. You asked a question that had an obvious answer.

In any event, voting for someone and then actively working against having other people vote alongside you could mean you voted for your scumbuddy and now OOPS people are gonna run him up, so you need to start working to save him. And the whole thing is patently ridiculous because you are OBVIOUSLY asking people to sheep you:

Take a deep breath and stop. Redefine 'sheep' as 'follow blindly with no thought or evidence'. Reread.

39: Cloudkicker definitely getting lynched, sheep me

"Definitely getting lynched" on page 2 is obviously me being the bad cop. Thanks, good to know I suck at it. (Or am *too* good? What's the difference?)

49: I'm not gonna get you lynched Cloudkicker

Who lynches people on page 2? Seriously?

51: It was all a reaction test!

What else do you think a threat on page 2 is?

65: I still think you're scum but again please don't sheep me on this
80: No really guys don't sheep me

Yes, I thought he was scum because his reaction was bad. No, I didn't ask to be sheeped because

*blindly* following on someone else's read

is super anti-town.

154: Cloudkicker is probably town

CloudKinetics said a lot of stuff between 80 and 154 and it made me think his scumminess is just part of his style. There's many other players like him, for example Secret Agent Jin.

"Is it important the order in which these things happened?" - how is that remotely relevant?

It might be, but I don't know yet. I haven't gotten an answer to the question.

Newman

that one is for you.

You... don't know how it's relevant. But you asked anyway. This is exactly what I mean.

Were they not relevant to the current discussion, that being Cloudkicker at that time? What exactly was I distracting people from?

No. They were *related*, but not *relevant*. Their answers didn't matter. They were filler questions.

Despite what you may say, Kairal is not obvtown. At the time I was not happy with how he jumped on the Cloudkicker wagon due to the d9 slip, even despite it being explained to him how his view of the slip made absolutely no sense. It made it look like he wasn't concerned with his own reasons and was willing to jump on the CK wagon no matter what.

Why are you saying all this *now*? Why didn't you attach all of that to your vote? It kind of makes me think you only came up with it now.

Plus, you're wrong. As soon as we explained it to him, he acknowledged his mistake and switched. Kairal is a new player and tends to ridiculously overthink certain things and slide in the wrong direction. I've played one game with him already and I know how he is. An experienced player like you should at least tonally recognise a newbie and read him accordingly. Your "unhappiness" looks a lot like grasping at straws.

[Gamma Emerald]

Elhabe21 has requested replacement.

[Gamma Emerald]

Elhabe21 has requested replacement.

Dierfire replaces Elhabe21!

[massive]

You... don't know how it's relevant. But you asked anyway. This is exactly what I mean.

Well, how would I find out if it's relevant if I didn't ask?

[Io]

Do I need to hit you upside the head with a dictionary?

con·cur
kənˈkər/
verb
1. be of the same opinion; agree.

[-Grey-]

Do I need to hit you upside the head with a dictionary?

con·cur
kənˈkər/
verb
1. be of the same opinion; agree.

I don't live by grammar school dictionaries. Try a grown up definition:

To agree, approve, or consent to, especially regarding an action or opinion. Regarding a decision of a court or court panel that has more than one judge, to agree with the opinion of another judge,

but not necessarily for all the same reasons or for a different reason altogether.

[Aj The Epic]

Is the dictionary going to give me a scumread?

[Aj The Epic]

Yes, I thought he was scum because his reaction was bad. No, I didn't ask to be sheeped because *blindly* following on someone else's read is super anti-town.

Pretty much false. Some people just have way too much trust. If you're going to have an issue with it, look for WHY they sheep you. There's a few players on site who like to townbloc as a way to wincon, which basically involves one or two townleaders and a fuckton of sheep. The sheep there just have to make sure they're comfortable with what's going on.

I think when you're calling CK's reactions bad, you're on the wrong road for what was so weird about it. He wasn't actually reacting to much at all, rather his choices to focus on himself was the far stranger part of his entire reaction. Unless we're speaking of 1 and the same thing (CK's calling his own townslip, CK calling himself town off a flip that hadn't happened), i'd like to see exactly what reaction you're referring to.

[Dierfire]

Hello everyone! I think that I've played with some of you before.
It shouldn't take me long to get caught up; expect my return in a few hours.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Hello everyone! I think that I've played with some of you before.
It shouldn't take me long to get caught up; expect my return in a few hours.

Welcome!

[Kairal]

Hi Dierfire

The person you replaced hadn't done much so far so I'm currently voting you in order to encourage you :p

VOTE: Dierfire

[Kairal]

Sheeping discussion. Personally I've never really understood the concept. The whole reason I make arguments is in order to persuade people. I want them to go 'Oh that's a convincing argument that X is scum, so I'll vote for them too'. To me sheeping seems like successful persuasion. On the other hand last game scum did blatantly use my argument, everyone else called them out for it and lynched them. So it seems it is a scumtell. It's a weird thing that's for sure.

Anyway right now we have 2 votes on AJ (from Massive and Io) and I don't see any reasoning provided for either. Mind explaining? Personally I looked through his ISO and he looks fine to me. By which I mean he has a reasonable number of posts and doesn't seem afraid to create solid interactions with people, and is actively creating content. Now sure my reads are often poop as previously established but if you post persuasive arguments as to why he should be lynched maybe I'll vote him too :p.

[MiniDeathStar]

FOS: Io

. I'm thankful you took my side on the sheeping definition but honestly, there's better things to do than dictionarying around for

yet another page

.

Well, how would I find out if it's relevant if I didn't ask?

I'm not sure I follow? Grey pointed out two scummy things about CloudKlepto and you're asking him why he ordered them the way he did. How would it be relevant regardless of the answer? Like that's literally the randomest question you could've asked.

Pretty much false. Some people just have way too much trust. If you're going to have an issue with it, look for WHY they sheep you. There's a few players on site who like to townbloc as a way to wincon, which basically involves one or two townleaders and a fuckton of sheep. The sheep there just have to make sure they're comfortable with what's going on.

And that's exactly what bothers me, because the town leaders aren't wizards, they can be wrong and if the whole village is mindlessly agreeing, it binds everyone to the leader's biases and blind spots. I was the town leader last game, I cleared two scum, almost led a deathwagon on a few townies and it took me ages to figure everything out because barely anyone was helping me. Of course I want to avoid this happening again.

I think when you're calling CK's reactions bad, you're on the wrong road for what was so weird about it. He wasn't actually reacting to much at all, rather his choices to focus on himself was the far stranger part of his entire reaction. Unless we're speaking of 1 and the same thing (CK's calling his own townslip, CK calling himself town off a flip that hadn't happened), i'd like to see exactly what reaction you're referring to.

I *did* call that out though? It was him clinging to his 'townslip' and conjuring this forced OMGUS on me that didn't impress me.

Hi Dierfire

The person you replaced hadn't done much so far so I'm currently voting you in order to encourage you :p

VOTE: Dierfire

I know you mean well but in my experience this kind of "CPR votes" is incredibly useless.

[MiniDeathStar]

Sheeping discussion. Personally I've never really understood the concept. The whole reason I make arguments is in order to persuade people. To me sheeping seems like successful persuasion.

Which is grand when you're onto the scum. It's less grand when you're onto the town and the lynch is sponsored mostly by misled town while the scum are rofling in secret away from the wagon. It's also less grand because people stealth-vote without giving any new reads, which makes *them* harder to read.

Also two heads, better than one, etc. etc.

Anyway right now we have 2 votes on AJ (from Massive and Io) and I don't see any reasoning provided for either. Mind explaining? Personally I looked through his ISO and he looks fine to me. By which I mean he has a reasonable number of posts and doesn't seem afraid to create solid interactions with people, and is actively creating content. Now sure my reads are often poop as previously established but if you post persuasive arguments as to why he should be lynched maybe I'll vote him too :p.

Yup, Kairal's town.

You better not be pulling a Börk Börk / oddmusic on me because you'll be murdered post-game and never townread by me again, you know that right?

[MiniDeathStar]

I'm starting to feel better about Aj the Scummy btw.

[Kairal]

As an aside apparently I really am very transparently scum. I was playing Avalon with a friend the other day. He called me being scum on the very first vote (and I voted the same way I always do!). In fact he read who my scum partner was based on my interactions that first vote too. I managed to win by OMGUSing him super hard though. In fact it was me and the other scum who were selected to go on the final mission. Good times.

Anyway the point is when I roll scum I'll OMGUS super hard, kill you first night and then claim it's an obvious frame job.

[CloudKicker]

So far i kinda townread massive, swan and cubic, massive/cubic seems like tvt to me

[CloudKicker]

other ppl who should be town from a gut reads are grey and hellooooo but needs more content

[-Grey-]

I'm starting to feel better about Aj the Scummy btw.

You should put your vote next to mine so he can ask it out and they can go on a little vote-date.

If things go well, maybe they'll get married and have little vote-babies.

With a little time, our vote-family could grow enough to lynch AJ.

[CloudKicker]

Like i actually hard townread cubic

[CloudKicker]

Btw minideathstar, misspell my name on purpose one more tiem and i will park my vote on you until youre dead or im dead, trust me i will vote and tab out for months