Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Io]

Aj the Rubic, why are you scumreading Io btw? I looked through your posts but you never actually mentioned that until now.

Some of it is OMGUS at face value but the unexplained vote on me wasn't good, especially considering she had explained her position on other wagons far more clearly. Dierfire more or less explained it earlier, but it was a vote that made no sense given the post she made it in had other stronger scumreads.

At the time it was between you and Grey, but Grey now looks town so you're down to my only current scum read.

[Aj The Epic]

That doesn't solve the issue of you not explaining shit, nor retroactively explain your decision there. +Grey and I were at odds, so for you to have opposing views like that with no explanation doesn't add up. I'd expect you to focus on that point rather than basically dismiss it altogether for some trifling discussion on CK. In fact, that discussion is basically the closest thing you've had to a pronounced scumread all game outside your unexplained vote.

[Kairal]

I'm currently sorting into two baskets. Would not lynch day 1 and the rest. Right now I have Mini, Grey, Dierfire and Culted in basket 1. Including myself that means I have the bare minimum for a town read from 5 of 13 people. That's not my 'would never lynch, clearly town bff' list. That's my exceeded bare minimum to not get lynched list. If I'm super generous I could maybe fit Jin in there.

Why are the rest of you making this so hard? You can't all be non-town aligned. I would basically be ok casting a vote on 7 players here either because they've posted virtually nothing (IamI, Newmann), have an inexplicable aversion to explaining their votes (Io,massive), accused a player of tunneling and then clarified that tunneling is not the one that comes from scum! (AJ), are most notable for being weirdly hostile to someone for no reason (Flubber) or... whatever the hell cloud was doing. If you are town throw me a bone here. Give me a reason, any reason, why I shouldn't be voting you out.

/rant over

[Aj The Epic]

Ftr it was 'confbias' and that was just me having issues with definitions. I haven't forgot what tunneling means.

[Kairal]

You've confirmbiased the game already.

Only town can confbias. You are talking to me like you know I'm town even though you're voting for me.

That only strengthens my scumread on you.

Confbias might've been a wrong choice of wording. Tunneling would be the proper word.

However Confbias can absolutely come from scum (they know the roles from the getgo). It just isn't the correct word for what I asserted.

Cool you're here. Lets talk about it. You initially claim he's confbias - he says only town can be confbiased so why are you voting him. You respond with... this. You clarifiy that confbias can come from scum but you don't think he's confbias. Surely you can see how this looks like you are arguing he's not scum. Yet you continue to vote him. Just to get this totally clear for me: what do you mean when you say tunneling?

[Aj The Epic]

'Tunneling' is when someone focuses in on one person. This is something that can come from town or scum but more often from scum.

And no, I didn't see him as town. It was mostly an issue of me having been gone and using the wrong word.

[Kairal]

Ok I see the disconnect here. I've been seeing tunneling as a town thing and given that you specify that confbias can be scum it looked weird. Thanks I'll put you in basket 1 for now.

It really is that easy folks. Just give me something to go on. 6 people left. Well... maybe 7 depending on Jin's next few posts.

Like Io. You still have a naked vote for AJ with 0 explanation as to why. Your most recent post indicates that you weren't even sure about AJ and were possibly thinking of voting Grey. None of this was clear to me because you never said anything about it. If you are town leaving a record of these thoughts makes it easier for the rest of us to see where you are coming from and forces scum to also commit to positions and thoughts all of which makes our job easier. Please help me out here.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Aj the Rubic, why are you scumreading Io btw? I looked through your posts but you never actually mentioned that until now.

Some of it is OMGUS at face value but the unexplained vote on me wasn't good, especially considering she had explained her position on other wagons far more clearly. Dierfire more or less explained it earlier, but it was a vote that made no sense given the post she made it in had other stronger scumreads.

At the time it was between you and Grey, but Grey now looks town so you're down to my only current scum read.

What are your views on Massive? If you posted them i missed it.

[Io]

Aj the Rubic, why are you scumreading Io btw? I looked through your posts but you never actually mentioned that until now.

Some of it is OMGUS at face value but the unexplained vote on me wasn't good, especially considering she had explained her position on other wagons far more clearly. Dierfire more or less explained it earlier, but it was a vote that made no sense given the post she made it in had other stronger scumreads.

At the time it was between you and Grey, but Grey now looks town so you're down to my only current scum read.

What are your views on Massive? If you posted them i missed it.

I don't got a read on him.

[-Grey-]

I'm going to repeat this: nobody has confirmed that CK and I share alignment. Do not assume he's conftown when I die as town, or assume I'm conftown or confscum if he dies as town/scum. Like, pretty please.

No. You're mod-confirmed to share alignment. It's the only way a force replacement over playing against wincon makes ANY sense.

The second one of you dies, we'll know the date of the other. I just happen to believe you're both town.

[-Grey-]

Ok I see the disconnect here. I've been seeing tunneling as a town thing and given that you specify that confbias can be scum it looked weird. Thanks I'll put you in basket 1 for now.

No. That's fucking terrible.

He was accusing me of confbiasing A SCUM READ, which is literally IMPOSSIBLE for scum to do because scum KNOW who scum IS.

That tunneling bullshit is just clumsy backpedaling.

[Aj The Epic]

Except you're making a huge deal of wording with someone who hasn't played a game of mafia in 8 months and expecting me to be spot on with vocab.

I expect more than that if you're going to call a case against me. I guarantee that's not how you scumhunt all the time.

[-Grey-]

Except you're making a huge deal of wording with someone who hasn't played a game of mafia in 8 months and expecting me to be spot on with vocab.

I expect more than that if you're going to call a case against me. I guarantee that's not how you scumhunt all the time.

I looked over your game history. Given your experience, I find it highly unlikely you actually forgot what confbias is in less than a year away.

[Aj The Epic]

So where's the rest of your case then.

[Kairal]

I think it may well be a scumslip or it may be a simple mistake. Personally it is nowhere near as incriminating as Io and massive's repeated refusals to engage in basic town behaviour. At least AJ's playing the game, posting reads and reasonable questions. I'm getting absolutely nothing of value from Io or massive despite repeated requests. I'm not sure if Io straight up ignoring it is more or less frustrating than massive outright telling me it's not gonna happen.

[-Grey-]

I think it may well be a scumslip or it may be a simple mistake. Personally it is nowhere near as incriminating as Io and massive's repeated refusals to engage in basic town behaviour. At least AJ's playing the game, posting reads and reasonable questions. I'm getting absolutely nothing of value from Io or massive despite repeated requests. I'm not sure if Io straight up ignoring it is more or less frustrating than massive outright telling me it's not gonna happen.

Tell me again who I'm voting?

Why are you so worried about my read on AJ?

[Kairal]

I forgot you were voting massive :p. Anyway if you recall this conversation started with me trying to decide whether AJ should fit into my lynch list or my reassess tomorrow list. You responded so I responded. I'm feeling confident at this point that you're town, so I feel like your read is genuine. I'm just trying to decide whether or not I agree.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Count 1.07

1 - Io: Dierfire
0 - Dierfire:
0 - HellloooNewman:
2 - MiniDeathStar: Shadow_Step, massive
0 - Kairal:
0 - Flubbernugget:
0 - I Am Innocent:
1 - Secret Agent Jin: culted
1 - Shadow_Step: HellloooNewman
1 - -Grey-: I Am Innocent
0 - culted:
5 - massive: Flubbernugget, MiniDeathStar, -Grey-, Secret Agent Jin, Kairal
1 - Aj The Epic: Io
0 -No Lynch:
Not voting: Aj The Epic
culted FoSes Io, Dierfire, HellloooNewman, MiniDeathStar, Kairal, Flubbernugget, I am Innocent, Secret Agent Jin, Shadow_Step, -Grey-, massive, and Aj The Epic
MiniDeathStar FoSes Flubbernugget, Io, and massive
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is (expired on 2016-12-19 23:30:00)
Please make sure your votes and unvotes are on separate lines.

[Dierfire]

@massive

I actually think that I'm fine with MDS trying to push this wagon and with Jin in the scumspot of the wagon.

What does this mean?

[Dierfire]

@Io

Your vote is on Aj the Epic. Why is this?

[culted]

Catching up atm. Looks like this got a bit lolzy.

[culted]

VOTE: Newman

I think 278 comes from scum a good amount of the time.
He's too fixated on the cloud push, I think it's fair to say that trying to hammer home your own townness can be scummy in some environments, but he's not really trying to wrangle with anyone in particular about it. Mostly looks like he's just trying to convince cloud that he's scum and not really anyone else.

Ya know, stay justified, stay unquestioned, out of the limelight.

Specifically the "someone tell me why they're town" is scummy at the end, doesn't feel like someone searching for answers but someone looking like they are.

[culted]

What's town about jin?

I didn't say I was town reading him.
The votes on him were just seemingly out of nowhere and he's just commonly mislynched. I guess you could have seen that as town reading since you can't mislynch scum, but I was saying he's just an easy wagon to push for scum and he hadn't really been posting scummy material.

Nice mental gymnastics.

[culted]

And 'hungry/happy' is actually 'hellooo' for HelloNewman....

His post 79 is fine, calling CK out for congratulating himself on a townslip is all well and good. The only issue is HelloNewman never actually interacts with anyone outside of CK and tunnels a bit that he's scum long after most of us have him as town. I don't mind contradictory viewpoints, but with an unpopular view comes a burden of proof, and I don't think Newman attempts that at all in his post. His reasoning CK is scum doesn't change at all (propped himself up on a townslip) even though he challenges CK multiple times through different wordings for the same thing. As I've said, I feel CK's play there was anti-town (aka looking at himself instead of others) but still NAI. Newman should've been tasked at building a case to actually make something happen rather than just stating he didn't like CK. At that point in time, nothing was happening with CK as a wagon so he either needed to drop it and refocus or force a real reason behind it.

So that's what I've got on Newman for the 4 posts so far.

Yea basically this.

Wait, Elhabe2 got replaced, Kairal is still here. Kai is still the one I view as basic conf town tho.

I'm fuzzy on this though.

[MiniDeathStar]

I'd like everybody who is scumreading Kairal to some degree to let me know please.