#174 was really the only post of its kind as far as aggression goes, nn has been significantly more aggressive this game but some of that can be chalked up to just the sheer fact that we had to deal with Shadow for awhile (ex. #1549)In post 3194, Prism wrote:That was me, and I did pick up on the increased aggressiveness in this game, or rather how much you bent over backwards in your other game (#133 was the one that stuck out to me). One of the reasons it's taken longer (besides me obviously getting entangled elsewhere in the game) is because whereas at first I thought that style of posts was nonexistent in your scumgame, when I saw #174 which suggested that it was more complex than it first seemed. Glancing through now I don't see any others as aggressive but the fact that my initial conclusion was wrong is the reason it's taken so long, but I agree that so far it points to you being town. It's expected that you'd play the games differently even if you were scum in both but that's not what I'm looking for here.
In post 3175, Prism wrote:This isn't true at all.In post 3167, nn30 wrote:He began D3 with a fairly strong scum read on Boring (2278). Yet, directly following that vote, he spends 2336 a lot 2338 of time 2421 and energy 2423 on other people 2472 until finally he switches over to Grendel 2545.
The chain of posts I just linked to were in chronological order starting with his vote for Boring in 2278 and ended with his vote on Grendel in 2545.
For somebody who felt strong enough to vote for Boring, he didn't spend a whole lot of time trying to gather votes onto her. He mostly just argues with other people about unrelated things.
#2236 is almost entirely dedicated to boring, with only the first and last quotes being unrelated. The rest is all me questioning/explaining my read to boring, telling you why I didn't agree with your townread on boring, and encouraging Zoronos to reconsider his read.
#2238 was purposely separated from #2236, people were pushing you over boring and I wanted to make it clear I wasn't going to go along. "Thank god for Implosion" is also referencing him coming back and voting boring, because nobody else was agreeing with me until he rolled in 3-4 posts before.
#2421 also dedicates significant time towards explaining more of my scumread on her to boring and more convincing Zoronos boring is mafia. The only thing unrelated is me trying to convince Shadow to stop tunneling you...again so he'll vote boring.
#2423 is a direct response to Shadow and still is me trying to convince him boring is scum.
#2472 is the only one completely unrelated and it was to give Shadow an ego check because he was making it impossible to work with him, and the posts that you've linked here show that I tried very hard to.
I'm not going to dispute that my Grendel read was off the mark, he was the first person I got a chance to reread between him and Dierfire and I found a shit ton I didn't like, and it wound up costing us a lot, and that's my fault. I've been the first to own up to me likely costing us the win that day and have listed it myself as a reason against me. The biggest thing I can say here is to actually go through and evaluate my reasoning on Grendel and see that it's coming from a town point of view. This is what I've been saying all game.You didn't even read them.In post 3167, nn30 wrote:This line of play could obviously come from town. But... the more I read it the more it feels scummy to me.
This is a complete mischaracterization of my posts, and you even followed up by defending it further, and I find them practically impossible to miss unless you already knew what conclusion you were going to draw to begin with. This doesn't seem like someone who read my posts thinking I was town, this reads like someone who wanted a reason to scumread me and took the first one they thought of. I think the way I phrased it in one post put it best, the rest of your game reads very town, but that case on me reads like you didn't even try to consider me as being town, despite thinking I was all game and regurgitating my "town or god at a keyboard" line. I also really didn't like the olive branch case for why you were town, because as BV said it seemed like a power play, especially coupled with the ??? case on me.In post 3185, Prism wrote:No, you haven't, even when I've explained why.In post 3184, nn30 wrote:I did read them.
Mentioning Boring/talking to Boring and pushing townies to vote for boring are not the same thing.
These are all in the posts you quoted:In post 2336, Prism wrote:I think it means nothing when it was halfhearted at best up until Day 2.In post 2279, nn30 wrote:p-edit - not even how early she wanted LUV on day oneI really, really don't feel like this is the case. When was the last time you ISO'd it? I see no realistic pushing on LUV until boring was a 50/50 for the lynch.In post 2308, nn30 wrote:Boring (wanted LUV's booty for two days)What you are describing is what boring did Day 1 with LUV.In post 2311, Zoronos wrote:I find scum tend to mark their scum buddies as 'neutral' and will constantly express mild to moderate suspicion on them *while not pushing them*. That is classic distancing. "Yeah A is scummy but let's all vote B" is scum play 101. So those things you flag as 'breadcrumbs' to me are potential setups to join the bus in case LUV goes down. Which is basically what happened yesterday. Those were specifically the things that led me to conclude he might be scum with LUV.In post 2421, Prism wrote:Zoronos wrote:What is the rest of the case, beyond 'a bunch of town voted for her D1'?
I guess I'm missing the thrust of the case kinda other than the bussing part but maybe I'm the dumb.
Only speaking for me but a few of the reasons I'm voting her are:
-Maria death
-Acknowledging why Gamma wouldn't be jailed but claims to be confused about why he died
-Voting LUV with me really doesn't convince me given the timing. LUV did something incredibly scummy and it doesn't take a town to see that. This may be confirmation bias speaking but a lot of her votes both today and other days seem opportunistic, ex. #1763 gives the possibility of her switching to Gamma. Kind of hypocritical of me to point out as I've said numerous times to make sure your vote is somewhere it counts, but the who it is question is still there.
-LUV voting Shadow then quickhammering Eager rather than just voting one of Eager/boring in a natural way to begin with is really strange if they're both town.
-Part of it is just me staring blankly at my computer, blankly looking at the names Dierfire/Grendel/boring/PenguinPower, and asking myself who's the most likely scum out of the 4.In post 2423, Prism wrote:As far as your read on boring/me goes-I don't really get the dichotomy but going with it: What incentive do I have to bus LUV that boring doesn't? If anything boring had everything I did, and a lot more.
In post 3229, Prism wrote:but that case on me reads like you didn't even try to consider me as being town
In post 3229, Prism wrote:but that case on me reads like you didn't even try to consider me as being town
I get the first paragraph and can definitely see how scum BV makes the posts (especially with the lukewarm approach to DF that can indicate prior knowledge of the flip) but don't really find them convincing that he was scum. I don't think asserting that it wasn't an all town wagon is damning, either, even though I think it was an all town wagon.In post 3205, nn30 wrote:Prism, I want to draw your attention to 3122 once more - but this time read starting at the beginning of the day (starts on 3045). This was his first meaningful contribution to the day beyond 'I'm going to re-read and get to it later.' BV basically lurked his way through the day, waited for town to talk itself into lynching another townie, and then hopped on at the last minute in 3122 with some weak attempt to join the consensus (which he did absolutely nothing to help form).
Today, he's even stolen some of the same logic his predecessor (at least, I think it was Shadow) used to scum read me.
The previous use was when Boring was still alive. Shadow (I think) used VCA to point at the wagon full of dead townies, and me, and say 'whelp I doubt that the entire wagon was made of townies, NN must be scum then.
Now that Boring is dead he's just recycling it.
Most of his attempts to scum read me are cherry picking events and interpreting them through the lens of conf-bias. He's not actually trying to get at the motivation of anything - he's just stating plausible ways that a scum!Nn30 would have made that move. It's not an attempt to solve the game - it's just weak.
In post 3232, Prism wrote:My biggest issue here is that you're skeptical of BV going through the motions and forcibly mashing in the puzzle pieces until they fit the narrative, but to me this just makes me think of your case on me, because that's definitely something you were doing there
In post 476, boring wrote:Rainbow time!
Because I get bored going so long without a splash of color.
Shadow_step - Has an aggressive town persona. A hint of grandiosity. I haven't seen this behavior before with scum.
eagerSnake - He's got a most-likely-town claim. If he's still alive tomorrow, he'll probably be bumped way down because he's pretty useless
nn30 - Awkward, but in a townish way. Provides good observations.
Grendel - His line of speculation appears faulty, but not scummy. Probably town.
Gamma Emerald - Acting like he did in the last game, which was town.
Zoronos - Still feels off, but in consistent ways. I'm beginning to suspect part of it is personality. Doesn't seem survival-oriented.
MariaR - At least she admits that she's been coasting. No solid read yet.
DierFire - The vote-and-disappear thing, even during RVS, is pretty scummy. His one post was decent.
Lil Uzi Vert - I know people seem mostly over him now, but he's remains one of the scummier posters today. Might be personality.
Slandaar/Prism - Because prod dodging with no content. Sub-outs are more likely scum than town.
implosion - I get the impression that he's trying to blend in, and stay out of trouble. Reactive.
PenguinPower - Bad votes, reactions lack a feeling of authenticity, posts lacking substance, and dismissive in a way that I only see with scum.
In post 2267, Prism wrote:For all the people pointing out that my reasoning on LUV was "odd" or "weak", I've had no one tell me why this is the case.
In post 488, Prism wrote:3) Can you describe your play style concisely in one sentence? Whatever it takes to win.