Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:55 pm

Post by HellloooNewman »

In post 548, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
In post 547, Secret Agent Jin wrote:@Newman: You realize that if MDS flips town then you would most likely be next, right?
EBWOP

I can't control that. What I can control is my vote, and I'm voting for who I most believe to be scum.
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:05 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Sooo...

*CK is replaced for admitting he was playing bad on purpose*
*Mini explains why it's NAI*
*mod explains why it's NAI*
*Mini explains a few times more*
Newman: Naaah, the mod fucked up. It's AI. Vote: Mini

I was going to just say "suit yourself" and forget about you, but you being the third person to latch onto that "mod confirmed alignment" bullshit is a bit too much for me to just ignore.

FOS: HellloooNewman
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:08 pm

Post by HellloooNewman »

I'm sorry, I've been meaning to ask. What does NAI stand for? I've googled it but come up empty.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:08 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Not alignment indicative.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm

Post by HellloooNewman »

Thank you for that.

In post 309, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Searching for a replacement for CloudKicker.
I have made this decision based on his assertion that he is playing against his own win condition
, and not the actual alignments of any players.

The mod spells it out right there. I believe that he simply said more than he intended to, and after he realized what he did he tried to control the damage in subsequent posts.

I understand you FOSing me and beating down my point. I mean, if I'm correct it's not as if you'd agree with my ascertain, know what I mean?
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

I mean, sure. Probably. I think if I was actually scum with Shadow right now I'd be freaking the hell out to Gamma and demand he restart the game or replace me or idk. I'd definitely hate the game if some mod slip was what caused me to lose as scum when I established myself as a village leader. But you have no way of knowing how I'd react, so I totally understand where you're coming from.

But ignoring the most probable explanation, and going for something arcane (like the mod replacing scum who was "bussing too much", then slipping about it and confirming the other scum [which would be even worse gamethrowing], then trying to cover it up), is just, like, way too scummy. Like you want me out of the game asap but can't make an actual case, and don't want to risk nightkilling and hitting a doctor's target.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:51 pm

Post by HellloooNewman »

I don't think he was "bussing too much". I think that (as evidenced by.....well EVERY ONE of his posts) Cloud is a reactive, headstrong individual. It reads to me like you genuinely touched a sore spot and he flipped his shit. Basically, what started as bussing, ended up in the twilight zone.

Yeah, reading what I wrote, it SOUNDS ridiculous. But, actually reading the thread....that's what it reads like to me.

And how do I know you're NOT freaking out behind the scenes with the mod? I'm not privy to your pm box.
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:01 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Twilight zone bussing is not a force-replaceable offence though? It would just mean he's a very shitty player, but that's life. You play long enough, eventually you *are* going to lose a game as scum thanks to useless partners. I had a shitty partner very recently and while he did make me lose the game, I never actually reported him or told him to replace.

Plus, if you looked at the thread, you'd see the post Gamma quoted when he issued a warning was CK's confession, so the mod slip argument doesn't even make sense by itself.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:04 pm

Post by Kairal »

In post 545, -Grey- wrote:Lol.
Newman I want to direct your attention to this post. Do you know why Grey is laughing? It's because he started the whole Mini and Cloud modconfirmed scum thing as a way to lure scum out. You didn't read that part I guess? In fact just before I left the thread Grey and I were having a laugh about how he caught massive out with it.

Then right after that you come along quoting that same argument? It's not a great look

The reason it's a dumb argument is because scum absolutely can vote for their own partners and still be playing for their wincon. Last game I was in scum ruthlessly bussed their partner from page 2. Cloud could absolutely have been doing the same if he and Mini were scum.

I've also read plenty of games where scum manufactured what appears to be a personal disagreement to make town think there's no way they can be linked. If you think about it Cloud's play would actually be pretty good if he and Mini were scum. If either of them ever dies we definitely wouldn't suspect the other of being their partner. Even better Cloud created a perfect excuse to vote Mini all day every day and therefore avoid having to fake reads and votes on town.

Yes I know I said I was done for today. But I had dinner with my girlfriend's parents so I got bored and checked the thread again. It was alive and that got me excited! Dinner still sucked though :(
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:10 pm

Post by -Grey- »

In post 558, Kairal wrote:Do you know why Grey is laughing? It's because he started the whole Mini and Cloud modconfirmed scum thing as a way to lure scum out. You didn't read that part I guess? In fact just before I left the thread Grey and I were having a laugh about how he caught massive out with it.

Then right after that you come along quoting that same argument?
This.

So much this.

ROFL.
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"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:16 pm

Post by -Grey- »

Actually, I think I'd be happier with a Newman lynch than a massive lynch.

massive already had beef with MDS, so he might have latched onto my push as an opportunity to lynch his top suspect which town can do just much as scum.

Newman coming out of left field with that, though...

VOTE: Newman
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:17 pm

Post by Dierfire »

I haven't caught up completely, and it will probably be 36 hours before I have as much time as I want to get through it.

I did read Io in ISO and I don't see anything that makes me want to remove my vote.
I also looked for a VC but I don't see anything recent. The deadline at least is far enough away that it shouldn't be a problem.

I read this most recent page, but since I don't care to discuss the circumstances of the replacement I've nothing much to say about that.
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:28 pm

Post by Kairal »

Well I'd really prefer a massive lynch - I think his refusal to explain his votes and his threat to start gamethrowing is a lot more suspicious. The problem with having so many scummy townies is that our votes will spread out. Well we still have a lot of time to sort it out I guess.
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:28 pm

Post by HellloooNewman »

In post 558, Kairal wrote:
In post 545, -Grey- wrote:Lol.
Newman I want to direct your attention to this post. Do you know why Grey is laughing? It's because he started the whole Mini and Cloud modconfirmed scum thing as a way to lure scum out. You didn't read that part I guess? In fact just before I left the thread Grey and I were having a laugh about how he caught massive out with it.

Then right after that you come along quoting that same argument? It's not a great look

The reason it's a dumb argument is because scum absolutely can vote for their own partners and still be playing for their wincon. Last game I was in scum ruthlessly bussed their partner from page 2. Cloud could absolutely have been doing the same if he and Mini were scum.

I've also read plenty of games where scum manufactured what appears to be a personal disagreement to make town think there's no way they can be linked. If you think about it Cloud's play would actually be pretty good if he and Mini were scum. If either of them ever dies we definitely wouldn't suspect the other of being their partner. Even better Cloud created a perfect excuse to vote Mini all day every day and therefore avoid having to fake reads and votes on town.

Yes I know I said I was done for today. But I had dinner with my girlfriend's parents so I got bored and checked the thread again. It was alive and that got me excited! Dinner still sucked though :(
Yes, scum can (and absolutely should!) bus their teammates. What I'm saying is that it appears that things got heated and went well beyond that between Cloud and MDS. Cloud was repeatedly asked if he was serious about locking in his vote, to which he replied in the affirmative.

And I couldn't care less that Grey was laughing, or that he believes he caught Massive. My believing in something that you, or he, doesn't does not make me scum. In fact, why the hell would I double down on something that "caught Massive", if I were scum? It makes no sense.
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:35 pm

Post by Kairal »

I mean things did get heated and go beyond the normal bounds of the game. That's why he was replaced. However if you agree that Cloud could have been genuinely voting Mini and not gamethrowing regardless of their roles, then you see there's no real reason to believe it's any particular configuration of alignments.

Anyway enough of that. The best way to determine your alignment is to see your views on every player. Obviously I'm mostly interested in seeing if you'll support my massive wagon but thoughts on everyone else as well would be ideal.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:59 pm

Post by MiniDeathStar »

I agree with Kairal actually (in that massive has been scummier so far). I just can't tell if Newman is town-paranoid about me, or scum-paranoid about me, or legitimately believes I'm scum but can't build an actual case.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:51 am

Post by culted »

Hellooooo everyone sorry had to do some things the last couple days. I'm gonna grab some breakfast and then catch up :3
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:32 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 518, MiniDeathStar wrote:The reason why I'm iffy on it is because Flub could have quoted a number of other posts as evidence for his scumhunting, but he was specifically anchored on that *one* post and brought it up several times. It kind of looks like he wants bussing to pay off, if he's indeed bussing.
Because you voted him for similar reasons that I did and claimed for that to be your own independent thought. So you literally can't accuse me of not scum hunting without blaming yourself the same way
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:34 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 523, Kairal wrote:Kids are watching this Mini! We can't have those kind of flubs. *Turns to Camera* Anyone who gets the highest votes is just going home kids, so you don't you worry!
Going off the island sounds great until we realize we're all clones
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:55 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

The fact that people can't even agree on what the mod confirmed shows how stupid it is to argue that the mod confirmed anything
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:57 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

That being said I do think that trying to read the mod is coming from a town mindet
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:58 am

Post by MiniDeathStar »

Ughhhh I just reread some of the thread from the beginning and seeing CloudKaflooey again made me instantly regret it. :igmeou:

Anyway, Flub, I did vote massive for slightly different reasons, mostly because he was voting an obvtown person (rather than an 'unexplained' vote), but like, okay, we got it, you were scumhunting and I was wrong about that. There, happy?
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 am

Post by culted »

Mini and flubber argument looks to be fueled by a playstyle disagreement and personality clash more than anything and they're both actually making okay points at the same time while not caring very much how their pushes come off to everyone else. Think this is Tvt.

@Io

I realize a lot of people called you out on this but was there anything in particular from kairal's post on aj you resonated with that made you develop a scumread there?

@Kairal

When did your scumread on newman develop specifically?
In post 440, -Grey- wrote:Io is climbing in my scumreads.
In post 441, Io wrote:k
Probably a scum reaction.
In post 447, massive wrote:
MDS
: Specifically can you quote my "bad logic" that I've "doubled down on"?
Meh, I was kinda iffy on massive earlier from some stuff on cloud that looked like cogdis (like I still find it strange how you can discredit someone saying they townslipped in one post and then tell them people taking issue with the slip isn't a reason to townread them in the next.) Like, he brushed it off as a handslap which eh? Kinda bad but the thought process behind those posts made more sense when he explained his townread later on and I'm not gonna act like I've always kept my reads easily traceable regardless of alignment.

But THIS shit is typical scumflail and massive's been playing since 03 he should know that nothing productive is gonna come from arguments like this.
In post 453, massive wrote:My concern is not for whether you and CK are the same alignment, MDS, nor for whether the mod was correct in replacing CK for his actions. My concern is for the amount of time and effort you put into getting people to NOT LOOK AT IT, to ignore it, to claim it's NAI, and THAT is what makes me say "the lady doth protest too much." Which is, in all honesty, what "protest" MEANS. And how, of course, me "doubling down" has no actual link to factual in-thread posts. You tried. You failed.
In post 493, massive wrote:I just don't see how MDS is still running this town.
Kinda torn though because these gut decently real.
In post 508, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Well its blatantly obvious to me who scum is, ill give you a hint, its flubber. He doesnt take much interest in the game until he feels he can strike at an opportune time and argue his way into getting a player lynched. He also, like Massive, doesnt really explain much. He also is just pointing fingers at MDS and pushing the points she is making aside. Its sort of like when you argue with your parents and they say "That doesnt matter, listen to me, i am the parent" he is just deflecting what she says with minimal effort.
I'm sad that nobody wanted to vote this with me.
In post 509, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I was typing when he posted his last few posts that defend himself a little more, it all looks very suspect to me still but not vote warranting.
What about it was suspect?
In post 544, HellloooNewman wrote:scummyness
Scumpost.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:09 am

Post by culted »

@mod
An actual votecount instead of just saying "VC" would be great. : )

Rather a newman lynch > massive at the moment. With massive he's got a track record of bonking heads with mds so the benefit of the doubt that he's just tunneled and omgusing is there and despite how bad the push is as a whole I can kinda see the where he's coming from on the 'protest too much' stuff if I squint.

And on the other hand, like grey said, newmans mds vote is just pure opportunism.

My other preferences are jin and io; more enthusiastic about jin. Also kinda don't think these two are scum together.

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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:19 am

Post by MiniDeathStar »

All this pushing on Newman made me want to reread him carefully again. This kind of stood out:
In post 554, HellloooNewman wrote:I understand you FOSing me and beating down my point. I mean, if I'm correct it's not as if you'd agree with my ascertain, know what I mean?
In post 556, HellloooNewman wrote:Yeah, reading what I wrote, it SOUNDS ridiculous. But, actually reading the thread....that's what it reads like to me.
Do these read slightly off to anyone else? Like he's trying to convince *me* of his reason for voting me? Shouldn't I be the last person he needs to justify himself to? It kind of sounds like he's... afraid of me? And wants to persuade me not to start a wagon on him?

Like, I'm not going to lie, Newman looks pretty bad atm. I just find it incredibly unlikely that *both* scum would be using the same argument that got *them* voted the first time.

I don't know.
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