Micro 669 - Procrastination Mafia - At The End...(GAME OVER)

[Infinite Justice]

My vote on BnL is titus's vote. Believe it or not there are 2 players in this slot, and I didn't find a better place to put it, so I didn't see a reason to change it.

Proper response later.

-Inf

[Aristophanes]

My vote on BnL is titus's vote. Believe it or not there are 2 players in this slot, and I didn't find a better place to put it, so I didn't see a reason to change it.

Proper response later.

-Inf

You're a part Titus HYDRA? =)


Hiiii!
*waves*

Now, you do know that you are responsible e for their actions too as in, their vote is your vote. You shouldn't just allow it, but support it. So what makes it a good enough vote for you?

[Infinite Justice]

And you're in this game??

If I wasn't in a hydra now, my vote would be random, let's just say that.

-Inf

[BNL]

Drealmerz7, how strong is your gut scumread on IJ and me?

[Infinite Justice]

1.) for me it is completely natural, no matter the circumstance: if you're at L-1, you fucking claim (if you're town, also if you're scum because smartscum try to be towny and town always should claim imo), because of the potential for QH, because it shows your desire to shake the wagon and not lose your role/vote/view to a lynch - to me you're trying to force the game into a "stage" that it is not in, you're at L-1, that is the primary thing, regardless of what other conceptions you might hold about how it "should" be, how it is is you're at L-1 and should be claiming so that we can judge whether to stay on you or get off.

I kinda get what you're saying here, but me and most other players I've played with on this site see it very differently. A claim is sort of a last resort to determine whether or not someone is scum, because you want to give as little information to scum as possible. In my view, no one should claim until town is basically ready for a lynch. So I think you guys should question and observe me to determine my alignment rather than have me claim, and mitigate the risk of a quickhammer by not having me at L-1 so early as opposed to, again, having me claim. Not only that, once again, it seems that 2 of the votes on me are not serious, which makes it even more ridiculous to me that we'd have a claim. Again, claims for me should only happen when you'd have a lynch in a vanilla setup. Otherwise, I'd be giving away information to scum when my lynch can definitely be avoided without it.

I don't think I'm forcing the game into a stage it's not in, if anything you're the one who's doing that imo. The game seems to be in the early d1 stage, and you seem to be forcing it into the late d1 stage. If you disagree, ok but I think you might be a minority.

2.) I often don't function on pure "reasoning" - this is mafia and to me it is a lot of behavioral analysis, motivations, associations, attitude, the genuineness I feel in it all - there's a combination of these things that lead me to intuit that you are scum, it's a skill I'm usually good with, there's not much reason to it a lot of time, it gets me SR a lot because I try to push a read like this and it doesn't often go over well because I don't know how to go about it so well when it's like this - the main thing is, I am confident in voting you as scum. I know I'm town. I know I have town's best interests in me, and I know that it is not good to vote without that feeling of confidence. I don't vote without confidence/comfort in a vote. If I feel this good about it, I'm sticking with it. No doubt. It serves me well. often.

Look, I'm a big believer in gut, but even the best of the best won't be able to make a very accurate gut prediction based on 7 pages. You're going to be wrong a decent amount of time, and you're wrong here. Keep questioning me and try to figure me out to supplement your gut.

3.) I agree but that is a generalization and a stalling or muddying of things as the day progresses is also something scum often will do when town is on the right track "wait wait, we're moving too fast! how can we be so sure they're scum so soon?" well we can't be SO SURE, but it's D1, and there's nothing TO KNOW, and if you've got comfort in a vote, go for it, give the reasons the best you can, and move forward. Everyone at their own pace, certainly, but don't halt your pace based on someone else asserting taht you shouldn't be advancing the game yet. That's ridiculous.

Again, the Day has not ended, has it? There is content generating, right now, so, quit balking the advancement of the game.

I think you should slow down and take your time not based on my personal opinion of how games should go, but based on my assessment of how this game is going. Yes, there is content being generated right now, and funnily enough, our argument is generating quite a bit. But if it was up to you, there would be a claim. Not to say a claim gets in the way of generating content, but when you are generating content and so far away from the deadline and just not necessary. I don't think you're giving enough weight to the importance of scum knowing someone's role, especially in a micro. That or you're not putting enough important on continuing to generate content when there's more content to be generated.

That said, I do think it's likely that you believe what you're saying.

-Inf

[Dunnstral]

Gonna lurk this harder than Zach

Rest of you guys lynch Infinite justice, they're probably scum and deserve to be wagonned anyway just for being a hydra of infinity and titus

[Infinite Justice]

Play the game

-Inf

[drealmerz7]

My vote on BnL is titus's vote. Believe it or not there are 2 players in this slot, and I didn't find a better place to put it, so I didn't see a reason to change it.

Proper response later.

-Inf

you are 1 slot 1 entity and therefore you get ONE READ from me

to me this equivocates to "I don't know why I'm voting who I'm voting for"

this is an unacceptable answer at this point in the game, especially when you're L-1 and you are voting for the person that the person who is pushing your wagon thinks you are buddies with - I mean, it's not hard to see the HUGE ISSUES here

vote explanation is utter bogus and you are contradicting yourself and that is SCUM SCUM SCUM

Drealmerz7, how strong is your gut scumread on IJ and me?

it grows stronger by the hour

reading the IJ response to my points now

[Infinite Justice]

Let's be completely honest here. Are you willing to listen to my side? If not, there's no point in having this discussion because I think you're town.

-Inf

[drealmerz7]

I kinda get what you're saying here, but me and most other players I've played with on this site see it very differently. A claim is sort of a last resort to determine whether or not someone is scum, because you want to give as little information to scum as possible. In my view, no one should claim until town is basically ready for a lynch.

I call bullshit because:

people claim on this site like it's the trendy thing to do - all of the fucking time, when they're not at L-1 at all

in my view L-1 means town is ready for a lynch and the only thing now is for the person to claim so anyone on the wagon can decide to get off and anyone off can decide to get on (or hammer if no one gets off)

pretty sure that is the view here, and you're just stalling because you don't want the game to progress because you don't like how it's progressing

you criticize dunnstral for not playing the game, but, it is you who are stalling and not playing the game - he is just waiting for you to get on with it, as are we all I think at this point

1.) So I think you guys should question and observe me to determine my alignment rather than have me claim, and mitigate 2.) the risk of a quickhammer by not having me at L-1 so early as opposed to, again, having me 3.) claim.

1.) DONE

2.) *looks at timestamps* - argument of fearing a QH no longer valid

3.) claim

Not only that, once again, it seems that 2 of the votes on me are not serious...
... ridiculous to me that we'd have a claim...claims for me should only happen when you'd have a

lynch in a vanilla setup

. Otherwise, I'd be giving away information to scum when my lynch can definitely be avoided without it.

WTF? so you're just NOT GOING TO CLAIM AT ALL THEN?

I don't think I'm forcing the game into a stage it's not in, if anything you're the one who's doing that imo. The game seems to be in the early d1 stage, and you seem to be forcing it into the late d1 stage. If you disagree, ok but I think you might be a minority.

You're repeating yourself, do I need to repeat myself? I don't think so.

Look, I'm a big believer in gut, but even the best of the best won't be able to make a very accurate gut prediction based on 7 pages. You're going to be wrong a decent amount of time, and you're wrong here. Keep questioning me and try to figure me out to supplement your gut.

Done. vote stays, no question.

I don't think you're giving enough weight to the importance of scum knowing someone's role, especially in a micro. That or you're not putting enough important on continuing to generate content when there's more content to be generated.

That said, I do think it's likely that you believe what you're saying.

-Inf

I absolutely know the weight of importance of these things. If you don't want to claim, do something that makes people unvote you.

generate some content

GIVE YOUR BNL READ, or, something other than trying to discount what I'm doing (which is generating content and playing the game)

[drealmerz7]

Let's be completely honest here. Are you willing to listen to my side? If not, there's no point in having this discussion because I think you're town.

-Inf

of course I am

but I can't listen if you're not saying anything that you haven't said already

say something, I'll listen

[drealmerz7]

"can't listen" because there's nothing to hear if you're not saying anything (or just repeating yourself) - in case that wasn't clear

[Infinite Justice]

Done. vote stays, no question.

Let's be completely honest here. Are you willing to listen to my side? If not, there's no point in having this discussion because I think you're town.

-Inf

of course I am

but I can't listen if you're not saying anything that you haven't said already

say something, I'll listen

Which is it? If we're going to continue this discussion I need you to be completely honest with yourself and try your absolute hardest to be unbiased. In return, I'll drop the points we're getting nowhere on and will stop repeating myself. To be completely honest, it's fucking annoying being tunneled on and it's just not worth my time if you're not going to change your mind no matter what.

-Inf

[drealmerz7]

quit stalling is what it is - I already said I'm "all ears"

if you're not going to say anything I'm not going to change my view
say some shit, maybe I'll change my view

it's pretty simple

so

waiting to hear what you have to say, ABOUT ANYTHING

if it's annoying being tunneled perhaps you should address issues instead of avoid them

you're creating the tunnel on yourself

[Infinite Justice]

Ok. I have class in a few minutes so in a couple hours I'll respond to you. I really don't think I've brought the tunnel on myself, and I've been trying to bring up new points and say them in a way you'd understand, but I guess I didn't really do it well enough.

Also I'll talk more content about other stuff when other people contribute more since this is basically all that's going on at the moment but yeah

-Inf

[BNL]

UNVOTE: Secret Agent Jin

VOTE: drealmerz7

I think his initial gut read of IJ/BNL scumread is nonsense, and him persisting it is a newbscum tactic (yes, Drealmer is new), especially with a lack of scumhunting elsewhere.

The bottom of page 3 and post 117 is also inconsistent with his deathtunnel on IJ

[BNL]

^*and on me too, wrt bottom of page 3

[BNL]

Dunnstral is town btw

[BNL]

Whoops drealmerz isn't new, I forgot he pointed it out in the thread about his Homesite, I thought he was new because of his first post in MS.

Still a common scum strategy though. Pretending to be deathtunneled on someone early game.

[drealmerz7]

not new

it started with gut

grew into more because of how IJ has been

p-edit: okay you see now good

I'm not sure how many completed games I have, more than 15, less than 20?

also experience with meat-world werewolf and 1-NightWW party game

[drealmerz7]

it was more than gut, actually

the gut kicked in because of the point out from IJ about how you criticized 1 person for multiple RVS votes, but not IJ - that draws attention to the brain, and the gut goes "hmm that feels like buddy buddy interaction"

[Infinite Justice]

My vote on BnL is titus's vote. Believe it or not there are 2 players in this slot, and I didn't find a better place to put it, so I didn't see a reason to change it.

Proper response later.

-Inf

you are 1 slot 1 entity and therefore you get ONE READ from me

to me this equivocates to "I don't know why I'm voting who I'm voting for"

this is an unacceptable answer at this point in the game, especially when you're L-1 and you are voting for the person that the person who is pushing your wagon thinks you are buddies with - I mean, it's not hard to see the HUGE ISSUES here

vote explanation is utter bogus and you are contradicting yourself and that is SCUM SCUM SCUM

I don't see why you put so much important on where my vote is. To be honest, my vote could be on BnL, on you, my top townread, or on no one, and it wouldn't make too much of a difference to me. So I kept my vote because the best purpose for it right now is to let titus to whatever she was gonna do with it. Titus did then tell me by pm that I could move my vote, but I don't see a reason to because I don't have a place for it. It seems to me that you put a lot of importance on where people's votes are at any given time, but I don't in the early game and that's basically what this is.

I also don't see where I contradicted myself

-Inf

[Infinite Justice]

people claim on this site like it's the trendy thing to do - all of the fucking time, when they're not at L-1 at all

And those people are dumb

in my view L-1 means town is ready for a lynch and the only thing now is for the person to claim so anyone on the wagon can decide to get off and anyone off can decide to get on (or hammer if no one gets off)

I agree. Do you think we should ask everyone whether they are ready for a lynch? Do you think the people whose votes on me aren't serious are ready for a lynch?

you criticize dunnstral for not playing the game, but, it is you who are stalling and not playing the game - he is just waiting for you to get on with it, as are we all I think at this point

I put out a lot more content not just related to defending myself than dunnstral did. And I don't think the game is delayed by me refusing to claim, given how much we have to discuss (sorry for repeating that but I think it needed to be repeated)

1.) DONE

I would argue in the process of being done, but ok

2.) *looks at timestamps* - argument of fearing a QH no longer valid

Fair enough

WTF? so you're just NOT GOING TO CLAIM AT ALL THEN?

I'll claim when I believe most townies are ready for a lynch.

I absolutely know the weight of importance of these things. If you don't want to claim, do something that makes people unvote you.

I'm trying, but I will also say that towntelling on purpose is kinda scum's job not town's job.

[Infinite Justice]

Back to class

-Inf

[drealmerz7]

where your vote is doesn't matter?

another bogus argument just trying to not-explain things that need explaining

you're essentially saying "we're still in RVS"

uhhhh, no

bogusnessscummmmm