Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Wisdom]

2 days left

I'm good with either Cakez or Nacho or even Leon being lynched

[Wisdom]

nah infinity is town

[Wisdom]

recruits are bastard, tammy

[Wisdom]

Reminder that 1 day 4 hours are left

[Wisdom]

yep, it's cakez/nacho

[Wisdom]

that's L-1

Claim, Nacho

[Wisdom]

kay let's lynch cakez

[Wisdom]

yes on both, at least that's what he claimed

[Wisdom]

yes

i prefer cakez

[Wisdom]

Infinity get back on cakez

[Wisdom]

4 hours left

[Wisdom]

Wait for a claim if you can help it

[Wisdom]

dunno for nacho personally, but scum rarely claim vt in general in my experience

[Wisdom]

who is patherpunt?

[Wisdom]

With Cakez being Tarquin Xykon might not even be in the game

[Wisdom]

why would thog be town?

[Wisdom]

oh...found him
wisdom's guy was also a bad guy right?

nope, belkar is one of the party members

[Wisdom]

wisdom u said u can guess who tammy and i are...so what do u think our characters be?

I was wrong, I thought you're varsuuvius and his familiar

[Wisdom]

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

Vote: Infiinty

I disagree.

I rolestopped Nacho night1 and night2. All actions on him failed.

And there are 2 no-kills in a row.

flavor?

[Wisdom]

and why are you voting infinity?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: panther

[Wisdom]

it does sound like the nightkill was on nacho and pere stopped it

why would they shoot tammy or leon?

[Wisdom]

tammy was claimed bulletproof

[Wisdom]

im talking about n2 here, about n1 i agree it was tammy

[Wisdom]

me neither but the only other explanation i can think of is it's peregrine and he nokilled so he could claim the rolestop

[Wisdom]

but thats super unlikely so its panther

[Wisdom]

1. Infinity 324 - Oracle - 2-shot Neopolitan
2. Leonshade - Roy - BP/Vig/Flavorcop/Lyncher
3. PantherPunt - Thog - ???
4. PeregrineV - ??? - Rolestopper
5. Tammy - O-chul? - Vig/Neighbor
6. Nachomamma8 - Vaarsuvius - VT
7. Kagami - Mr. Scruffy - ???
8. kraska77 - Monster in the Darkness - Enabler/Neighbor
9. Wisdom - Belkar - 1-shot Dayvig


Fill the blanks please

[Wisdom]

and why are you voting infinity?

He claimed to have targeted the person I protected twice in a row, and there were 2 no-kills in a row.

why would he claim to have done so unprompted if he was scum?

[Wisdom]

Oh ffs

UNVOTE:

That means nacho is town. But why am I scum?

My role stops all actions, including kills. Nacho seemed most active day1, so figured he might be the night1 kill.

The night1 lack-of-kill was up for debate (and I did debate it with Kraksa), but figured if it was me, I might as well stick to what worked, and protected him n2.

And there was no kill.

nacho was heavily suspected d1 and d2, no way he would be the kill either night

[Wisdom]

especially N2 after he claimed VT

[Wisdom]

i could see durkon being a fakeclaim for redcloak, if peregrine is scum

[Wisdom]

and why are you voting infinity?

He claimed to have targeted the person I protected twice in a row, and there were 2 no-kills in a row.

why would he claim to have done so unprompted if he was scum?

To get a lynch on the player he can't seem to kill? 3 votes in like 3 posts, and it takes 5 to lynch.

thats dumb
and again, nobody would shoot nacho

[Wisdom]

I can't imagine any scum would think it's a good idea to kill nacho over kraska, me, kagami, or anyone else tbh

Why on earth would scum consider killing me? or you?

both of you would be more likely than nacho

[Wisdom]

anyway, thog can't be town given the rest of the flavors
plus

Outside looking in.

I thought this was farside crumbing Celia (who is an outsider), so my thinking is he's Thog with Celia as a fakeclaim

[Wisdom]

OK. Nobody would shoot Bulba, either.

how the fuck are those two comparable?

[Wisdom]

because he's lyncher on town or because the mod is messing with him and xykon doesn't exist

[Wisdom]

OK. Nobody would shoot Bulba, either.

how the fuck are those two comparable?

Nobody except you would have shot Bulba. Nobody but me (and infinity) would target Nacho.

you are comparing a vigshot with a nightkill
you're not making sense

[Wisdom]

the only thing that keeps me from voting you is that I know you are uncapable of reading and keeping up, so you probably don't understand that nacho would never in a million years be a nightkill target in this game

[Wisdom]

okay but what kind of town is this
bulletproof strongman(ffs)
bulletproof/vig neighbour
Neapolitan
rolestopper
1 shot dayvig

thats too much

agreed
either peregrine is scum or Leon is lyncher on town or both
they're not both town

[Wisdom]

like someone said Cakez most likely jailkept shaddow to protect him from Leon, thus shaddow got the story

[Wisdom]

If Peregrine is scum, what is the point of the double rolestop on Nacho?

good point
he would be rolestopping a buddy
unless you're right about four scum and nacho is his buddy

[Wisdom]

but i think it's just Panther and Peregrine decided to be extra dumb because he's Peregrine

[Wisdom]

yes

[Wisdom]

monster in the darkness was never actually evil?

[Wisdom]

he has at least fought against the order of the stick multiple times

[Wisdom]

not if you consider what happened in the comic

[Wisdom]

a massclaim wouldn't break the game anyway because fakeclaims

[Wisdom]

hey i pushed it too

[Wisdom]

good point, after your claim he probably figured you weren't his target

i think his target is kraska or Tammy, I found it weird he correctly guessed about monster/O-Chul before it was claimed

pedit: @nacho

[Wisdom]

My guess has been Monster in the Darkness for Tammy and O-Chul for you.

here, before kraska claimed it

If he is lyncher on one of those flavors it makes sense

[Wisdom]

I'm not, it was just the guess that made the most sense.

how did that make the most sense? First of all you had to assume monster was town-aligned which while is plausible there's no way it's the first thing that comes to mind for a town neighbor

[Wisdom]

i still dont get the nokill though

maybe panther didnt realize tammy is bp?

[Wisdom]

i agree, cakez and nacho did look like buddies, but what about the nokill then?

peregrine, are you sure you're not actually a roleblocker and you misread your role?

[Wisdom]

Think scum!Nacho, afraid that I'll flavorcop him and disprove his claim, would've tried to shoot me, hoping that my BP was a bluff?

that could be the case actually

it was all over if you caught him, and you were supposed to flavorcop him after all, so maybe he took the risk

[Wisdom]

and that leon is being truthful:

Xykon exists and is likely the final scum.

Panther is confirmed thog and thus town.

I don't think any of those assumptions are wise to make

[Wisdom]

Tammy was known to be BP N2, kraska

Nacho kill N2 is the only thing that vaguely makes sense.

No, it makes sense that Panther missed Tammy being BP and thus shot her given how it looks like he had barely read anything

[Wisdom]

I guess scum-Panther could alternatively think that Nacho was town for being the counterwagon to Cakez and thus shoot there? That could also stem from not being caught up with the game

[Wisdom]

was town = would be townread

[Wisdom]

I buy the panther argument, but that makes leon scum of some sort.

which makes more sense than him being pro-town given all the power we have

plus what I said about him magically guessing kraska/tammy's flavor

[Wisdom]

Would be kinda funny is Roy was told xykon was definitely somewhere and he goes there searching when he's not in the game at all though.

Or xykon is in the game and is a lyncher on Roy while Roy is a lyncher on xykon?

what makes most sense to me is that Xykon is not in the game as that makes Leon's fakeclaim better. Like I said yesterday, if Xykon was in the game and we lynched him, and then Leon didn't die, he would instalose. With him not being in the game he can still insist Xykon exists until all scum have been lynched.

[Wisdom]

and then Leon didn't die

didn't win*

[Wisdom]

and now that I think about it, that's why Leon suddenly came up with the four scum concept today

He knows Thog is flipping scum and he has to insist there's a fourth scum after that

[Wisdom]

I buy the panther argument, but that makes leon scum of some sort.

which makes more sense than him being pro-town given all the power we have

plus what I said about him magically guessing kraska/tammy's flavor

I like the comic, and the Monster and his relationship was the first thing that came to mind with the BP-enabled vig paradigm. And only after you said that you knew who they were, which made me think that the answer is more obvious than I thought.

sorry I still don't buy this no matter how many times you repeat it

[Wisdom]

why would it make no sense if you were lyncher on town?

[Wisdom]

If I could win off a scum NK, I could win through no merit of my own.

oh, this?

maybe you're lyncher on Tammy then, who can't be nightkilled.

[Wisdom]

If I was lyncher on kraska or Tammy, why did I flavorcop Panther? I could've flavorcopped one and figured out my lynch target.

because you have to survive and we would never allow you to live if you flavorcopped obvtown instead of nacho or panther

[Wisdom]

peregrine is durkon

[Wisdom]

Who makes sense to be lyncher on O-Chul?

Xykon maybe?

[Wisdom]

anyway this is pointless

Youll be instalynched when panther flips scum and the game isnt over

[Wisdom]

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

Think scum!Nacho, afraid that I'll flavorcop him and disprove his claim, would've tried to shoot me, hoping that my BP was a bluff?

that could be the case actually

it was all over if you caught him, and you were supposed to flavorcop him after all, so maybe he took the risk

Pretty sure this was the answer after all but Panther being town with a scum flavor distracted me

[Wisdom]

1. Infinity 324 - Oracle - 2-shot Neopolitan
2. Leonshade - Roy - BP/Vig/Flavorcop/Lyncher
3. PeregrineV - Durkon - Rolestopper
4. Tammy - O-chul - Vig/Neighbor
5. Nachomamma8 - Vaarsuvius - VT
6. Kagami - Mr. Scruffy - VT
7. Wisdom - Belkar - 1-shot Dayvig

Updated claimlist if anyone needs them

[Wisdom]

no, nacho, you literally had no other choice but hope he is not bulletproof
he was supposed to flavor cop you, and if he did it was game over for your team

[Wisdom]

it is the only way the second nokill makes sense

[Wisdom]

kagami if you disagree with my logic, can you point me to where I am not thinking right instead of throwing votes at me?

[Wisdom]

that doesnt make any sense

Game would end if Panther was scum, assuming Leon isn't a "threat to town"

same now for Nacho

why would you want to lynch a 3p first?

[Wisdom]

and you're still not explaining where I am wrong in my thoughts about the second nightkill

[Wisdom]

the only one who I would believe shot Nacho is Peregrine, but Peregrine is the one who stopped the kill so that's impossible

everyone else makes absolutely no sense shooting Nacho

Meaning the only explanation for the nokill is Nacho shooting Leon

[Wisdom]

then you agree it was nacho shooting leon?

[Wisdom]

Dont you think nacho would take the gamble? He would lose if leon flavorcopped him as planned

pedit: no

[Wisdom]

the only one who i could see forgetting would be peregrine, and then i stilk doubt it

[Wisdom]

you find him forgetting to kill more likely than trying to save himself by killing leon..?

[Wisdom]

i think youre derping hard

[Wisdom]

and anyway as long as we agree its nacho its all good

[Wisdom]

fine with me but its just nacho

[Wisdom]

lets get rid of leon then

VOTE: leon

[Wisdom]

is it 4shot or is it that you got your shots back because they were blocked?

[Wisdom]

I dont see why 4shot instead of just full in a 13p tbh but i dont see why youd lie about that either

[Wisdom]

Lynch Leon
Peregrine rolestops infinity
Infinity checks nacho
Tammy shoots me/Peregrine
If nacho is scum lynch nacho
If nacho is town lynch peregrine

Sounds like a win

[Wisdom]

Pretty confident leon is a lyncher on tammy and youre the last scum

[Wisdom]

nope, its a lynch

[Wisdom]

nacho

[Wisdom]

though for real, the second nokill doesnt have any explanation other than nacho shot leon and i dont know why anyone is still doubting it

[Wisdom]

though for real, the second nokill doesnt have any explanation other than nacho shot leon and i dont know why anyone is still doubting it

that's not anymore of an explanation than "someone else shot leon"

Noone else had any reason to try and shot a claimed bulletproof.

[Wisdom]

I took no action last night.

what the fuck

[Wisdom]

And just to assuage my paranoia, could you go ahead and give nacho another stabbing, wisdom?

stab: Nacho

[Wisdom]

And the more weird part is that scum anticipated peregrine derping and shot infinity?

I cant help but think its peregrine now

[Wisdom]

though if peregrine didnt act, how did nacho survive?

Maybe they are both scum after all. Leon was truthful, so 4 scum is not farfetched anymore.

[Wisdom]

we're 5 alive?

[Wisdom]

i didnt want to mention that in case scum forgot, but now that you did we should hurry

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

also game wouldnt end because im hated - scum win when nothing can prevent them winning, we can still prevent it

[Wisdom]

the only alternative explanations are Nacho being BP and deciding to go for the only shot that would keep him from losing once again, along with Peregrine derping and targeting nobody for no reason, or scum-Peregrine protecting town-Nacho and lying about it.

Neither feels very plausible

[Wisdom]

Lynch Leon
Peregrine rolestops infinity
Infinity checks nacho
Tammy shoots me/Peregrine
If nacho is scum lynch nacho
If nacho is town lynch peregrine

Sounds like a win

and if it doesn't then that I will be more than happy to figure out tomorrow when bullshit central isn't happening

although

PEREGRINE ROLESTOP INFINITY

"i didnt know who to protect"

[Wisdom]

nacho why are you alive after being shot?

[Wisdom]

you know everyone's roles. guess.

[Wisdom]

lol

[Wisdom]

VOTE: peregrine

[Wisdom]

what do you think happened then?

[Wisdom]

Scum-peregrin implies that scum did not protect shadow on N1.

cakez protected him?

[Wisdom]

im not sure your other two points are particularly strong either, given it's peregrine we're talking about

maybe he thought that if nacho died or was cleared he would be lynched

[Wisdom]

And scum no killed?

no, scum shot tammy

[Wisdom]

meh

VOTE: nacho

i cant believe people can derp like this

[Wisdom]

what are you talking about

kraska was not BP, tammy is

[Wisdom]

or was

[Wisdom]

Bulletproof Enabling.

She was enabling Tammy's BP.

You have read nothing.

[Wisdom]

if the game wasn't secured by this point you would be losing us the game with your actions. Not only you protected scum-Nacho from the investigation twice, now you fail to follow a simple plan and protect the investigator.

[Wisdom]

Leon would have received a story in that case

[Wisdom]

also leon shot shaddow so we know he wasnt blocked

[Wisdom]

tammy can shoot peregrine if you dont flip scum, that okay?

[Wisdom]

you think he can self-rolestop?

[Wisdom]

i actually agree with nacho here, "ing" is just formatting, ive seen other mods doing it like this

[Wisdom]

he cant use two active powers on the same night

[Wisdom]

kagami was arguing peregrine isnt scum because he rolestopped nacho N1 instead of shaddow

to which I answered that cakez was saving shaddow

which Nacho used to argue that maybe cakez was blocking Leon instead

basically it's nacho flailing

[Wisdom]

if peregrine was scum it makes way more sense to have peregrine rolestop shaddow and shaddow making the kill than jailing shaddow

[Wisdom]

I would kind of suspect Kagami, but Nacho surviving the vig means BP and would prevent both Wisom and Tammy from killing him, but not, in theory, Leon.

kagami is conftown btw, infinity cleared her.

[Wisdom]

I agree with Nacho here, look at this one for example

White Narcissus- Willy-Wonka Manson - Serial Killing Factional Redirecting Gravedigging Child Pornography Distributor Gunned Down Night 3.

We were a Serial Killer, a Redirector, a Gravedigger, and a Distributor, and look at how it's formatted

Some mods do it this way

[Wisdom]

Whatever, the role nacho described is ridiculous.

Shadow almost certainly had an Elan fakeclaim and was a JK who gave his target a story.

why couldnt he be 2-shot Jailkeeper / Story Vendor (not linked) with Elan (Story Vendor) as his fakeclaim?

[Wisdom]

like, while jailkeeper + story vendor makes sense for Tarquin, the jailkeeper part doesn't make sense for Elan

[Wisdom]

but nacho if its separate and he used his JK, how would he then fakeclaim? "I didn't story vendor anyone N1 and N2 because I didnt feel like it"?

[Wisdom]

Tammy's shot is gone, peregrin would have won.

?
did tammy say she was 1-shot?

[Wisdom]

shit then

she cant shoot peregrine

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

in case peregine hammers and then plays dumb

[Wisdom]

maybe he was just being careful

[Wisdom]

i mean, i missed tammy was 1-shot, peregrine could have missed it too

[Wisdom]

or he missed that im weak and he can lynch me on his own

or he thought it doesnt work in lylo

doesnt make sense to hammer when he doesnt instantly win

[Wisdom]

because i dont want peregrine to win and nacho is making sense

[Wisdom]

then vote him and let peregrine hammer, im not doing it

[Wisdom]

blame can be yours

[Wisdom]

both you and kagami are acting like peregrine being scum is something farfetched, which it isnt

[Wisdom]

are you for real? im scum because i dont want to rush and potentially give peregrine the win?

[Wisdom]

I definitely don't disagree that peregrine has played exceptionally poorly as town, but his not being town requires a stupid role to exist.

what is stupid about it?

[Wisdom]

would you believe Cakez if he claimed, "I am Elan, Jailkeeper and Story Vendor together"?

[Wisdom]

no you wouldnt. Elan doesn't make sense as a jailkeeper and you know it.

[Wisdom]

?

how the hell would Elan make sense as a jailkeeper?

[Wisdom]

what other fakeclaim could he have as a story vendor?

Elan is the only one from the party who has not been in the game in some form

[Wisdom]

we dont know he will kill tammy

all three of us should make sure to be available at daystart

[Wisdom]

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

Peregrine, you should probably vote now.

call me paranoid but this sounds like he's telling him to vote me

[Wisdom]

with peregrine i expect everything

[Wisdom]

well yeah it's probably peregrine

[Wisdom]

im glad i didnt tunnel at least

[Wisdom]

tammy, kagami, please try to be here at daystart

[Wisdom]

i like how tammy still thinks its nacho

[Wisdom]

gg

Thanks for the game, Magna.

[Wisdom]

SirCakez - Jailkeeps Leonshade - Succeess - Leon is Jailed
SirCakez - Vend to farside22 - Success

heh, Nacho was truthful about everything he was saying

i know i wasnt crazy

[Wisdom]

i was disappointed that Leon wasn't a lyncher on town though

[Wisdom]

no, we didn't

know

Xykon was the last scum, as we didn't know if Leon was truthful or not. And farside made sense as scum with Cakez, so lynching Thog was obvious.

The Bulba shot just means that I will avoid playing with him from now on

[Wisdom]

scum over 3p anyday

[Wisdom]

im enjoying nacho's posts in the scum PT

[Wisdom]

I think you just need to learn to read me better.

Sorry, it appears you flip a switch in me without intending it. I was planning to use my shot on D1 anyway, as I many times don't survive past N1, but I was planning to claim and ask the town to vote on who they want shot, so I can use it as a second lynch. Yet when reading your posts I felt such a high amount of manipulation that I couldn't stop myself. Just like in Chain of Command, where I couldn't stop myself from wanting nothing but getting you lynched.

I think it will be better for both of us if we just don't play together.

[Wisdom]

There was plenty of evidence in thread to know Leon was telling the truth. By the time Cakez was lynched, you'd have to be jumping through some major hoops to think otherwise, especially when considering the n1 Shadow kill.

The shaddow kill was a necessity for Leon no matter what he was, he was on a leash. It meant nothing.

[Wisdom]

65 in the scum PT explains that Leon and I were right on the mark when arguing that Nacho shot Leon because he had no other choice

It amuses me that Tammy and Kagami looked at me like I was an alien when I was arguing that, yet last day where I was the one with the doubts, I was the unreasonable one again

[Wisdom]

eh, if it wasnt for peregrine you would have caught him N1

[Wisdom]

He was being suspected since D1 though

He stayed alive because we lynched a lyncher and a scum flavor

[Wisdom]

lol

i dont know how to respond to peregrine calling my play bad

i just wont

[Wisdom]

Leon – I’m not sure why you chose to go the route you did but I think you really undercut your chances of winning by not just choosing JOAT as your claim.

I still don't understand why he needed a fakeclaim; his role was pro-town as it was

[Wisdom]

#2: You wouldn't have a fakeclaim with that role.
#1: You can't have possibly figured out Tammy & kraska's flavor by yourself.

They both were weird, especially having a fakeclaim for a protown role

Even with magna's justification i dont agree

[Wisdom]

Yeah, the town win condition should be in the first posts in a sample role PM or something