LicketyQuickety's Mini Normal - 1847

[Garmr]

VOTE: penguin power

First official train.

[Garmr]

My views of 1sv It really comes down to ideals on how to play the game. I think it's null at most.

Think big

is a town read in my book he puts pressure on 1 shot to try and get information out of him. Instead of actually trying to frame him as scummy as fuck it looks like he is trying to find out if he is scum. He does seem to get caught up in optimal game procedure, which really doesn't matter I would prefer he would stop focusing on since it's a waste of time.


I don't think Josh is scum. I used to flail harder than josh as town.

See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie.

That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

Josh does actually have a good point on pine here not the shitty rvs thing no that points bad. The bolded point is around similar lines of what I was thinking. Pine did try and turn into a serious thing on 1shot and it seems strange why.

VOTE: 1 shot wonder

=P

See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie. That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

I could forgive post 50 as being an RVS (which I very clearly think it is).

That said you basically took my reasoning as the gospel in post 70. Not even a question of my motivations - you just use it to attempt to skewer Pine.

OH well spotted. I can choose to let 1SVT go as having made a joke in poor taste, but this blatant cogdis needs rope.

Vote joshz

Keep up this kind of analytical thinking, nn30, and I think we'll get along just fine.

This looks opportunistic as well in my mind it allows him to jump off 1shots wagon onto and buddying another player.

I do have a theroy in my head at the momment but I want to see more from the people in it before I make it public.


VOTE: Pine

[Garmr]

Garmr - to me both pine and TB came out a bit scummy from that stuff but TB was more scummy to me what you see as trying to figure it out seems more like a convenient fake of scum-hunting - FoS on both

I think tb was actually trying to work out 1shot and that gives him a little town lean his other posting is pretty meh and I can see where your coming from. Also I changed my mind after the shower i will say whats on my mind instead of waiting I think 1 shot and pine are linked. I think pine was ready to bus a buddy and josh was a convenient way to move his vote off him.

@josh - Town of Salem experience does not apply. The game is played VASTLY different there. The other site probably doesn't apply either - most sites that are not MS are essentially random lynching most of the time, or else overly rely on PRs.

Also, get an avatar you hippy scumfuck.

@Mod This is why you have your players confirm their role by PM. Please require that Josh does so

Uncertain whether scummy actions by Josh are newbie VI stuff or if "I don't know my role" is a ploy.

PEdit: It's against the rules for a reason. Not knowing your role makes it impossible to play to your wincon, which is an enforced rule.

Also notice here how he says if his unsure if it's scummy actions or vi stuff while actually helping him. It seems like artificial doubt his trying to place waiting for the flip. I feel like if he was town he would start reassuring other scum reads at this point while maintaining pressure on josh because this is where tunnel vision should stop.

[Garmr]

I don't think josh is hammered...

[Garmr]

@Garmar:

Why would scum feel the need to try to bus early?

pedit: Yeah I'm pretty sure it takes 7 to hammer. My apologizes for not starting that he was at L-2, I should have been more aware.

Because there's no danger early game to do so. Town don't want short days they want long days to get as much info out of players as possible so early wagons tend to dissolve into nothing and the player can get off scott free as they tend not to be lynched at the end of the day. Then you could warp that information into a variety of things.

[Garmr]

Hey garmr, your hardon for me is showing. Two inches? Pathetic.

Can you tell me why you feel the need to get worked up over me thinking your scum? No one else is voting you right now why are showing the fact you are being pressured.

[Garmr]

No the real question is why should a town feel pressured at 1 vote.

[Garmr]

Unvote

I am inclined to believe the breakdown. Like I said, my first non-Newbie game something similar happened to me. Josh doesn't strike me as having the guile to pull off such a convincing AtE.

This doesn't preclude him being scum, as I think the "I didn't read my role PM" thing sounds believable, but it does suggest we give him a full reset, let him recover, and judge him from this point forward.

Josh, go read your role PM, compose yourself, and engage with this thread. Consider this a Newbie Plus game.

PEdit: I'm not getting worked up, garmr. I'm mocking your "case." Being dismissive is actually kind of the literal opposite of getting worked up.

Not necessarily this isn't the first time you got worked over someone voting you the first was with josh. Being dismissive could taken be a sign of fear and you been dismissive twice at plausible cases. I feel if you were town you wouldn't feel intimidated and would try to debunk it instead of putting up a false bravado.

[Garmr]

I don't think the mod will do anything, but I am okay to wait and see (obviously.) As pointed out, 13/13 confirmed. It's a lie. It's up to us to move forward.

As I mentioned, I absolutely believe josh was lying and that we should lynch all liars. He's certainly the best lynch as of now, but it's way too soon to end the DP.

ThinkBig I think you are stuck on what a town should do over what a person would do as town. I personally think josh is a town lean. I can see a newbie going this shit is unfair i'm town and the case on me is bs and having a emotional breakdown.

[Garmr]

@Garmar:

Why would scum feel the need to try to bus early?

pedit: Yeah I'm pretty sure it takes 7 to hammer. My apologizes for not starting that he was at L-2, I should have been more aware.

Because there's no danger early game to do so. Town don't want short days they want long days to get as much info out of players as possible so early wagons tend to dissolve into nothing and the player can get off scott free as they tend not to be lynched at the end of the day. Then you could warp that information into a variety of things.

Yeah but there is no need to do so. Scum are already at an advantage here considering they know a lot more than town and just have to blend in. It's a lot easier in my opinion for scum to just sit back and watch the town kill each other than to go for a hard bus.

Long days also tend to not be so beneficial to town due to things like doubt and uncertainty to creep in and scum having the potential to slip away.

Wasn't really a hard bus because the wagon never built up and he was quick to drop it and hasn't mentioned it since. If scum sits backs as well they can be noticed as well so they need to do something. Really it's just a option for them to take if you think about it it has benefits and disadvantages and I think pine could only see benefits.

Short days on the other hand also benefit scum with lack of information while long days depend on the player so I guess you have to get something in between.

[Garmr]

@secret agent jin
I noticed your vote on Josh was rvs. You haven't really had a big reaction on josh wagon it kinda seemed like a meh.

I am glad there is actual discussion, some games tend to trail off and lack discussion. Everyone gets a gold star for participation, some might be smaller than others but every star counts.

The only person that sticks out is Josh, i would like to see what other people that of his no-explanation votes (maybe RVS?) and his very lacking word post. I seen some people discuss this, i see what you are saying. I would like to see the others are thinking.

P.S. This is seperate from the Josh thing but in my experience i find that scum tend to have a lot of fence posts. They often write reads that are easily back tracked on which contain words like maybe, possibly, could be.

I am amusing your reads real or fake aren't very concrete so Is there anything not josh related that has caught your eye. Also what looks like a fence post to you here at the momment?

[Garmr]

Garmr - to me both pine and TB came out a bit scummy from that stuff but TB was more scummy to me what you see as trying to figure it out seems more like a convenient fake of scum-hunting - FoS on both

This post is pretty informative if you can read between the lines.

Here he is trying to convince me to stop voting pine even through he says he is scummy and jump on to TB( Think Big.)

I can say from this interaction alone that Think Big is most likely town. As I don't think Drealmerz would try to butter me up so he could move my vote to a scum buddy.

[Garmr]

I don't know why he played like did DH. It left me confused all of Night 1 and it still does now. All I can say is that I didn't see the town motivation behind any of his lies and his reaction to the pressure being to claim he didn't read his role PM coming from town.

His votes without reason which he claimed were RVS read like serious votes to me

and all I wanted to know was his how and why he came to voting for who he did so I could see if I had missed something. Maybe I let my disgust for naked votes and not explaining reads cloud my judgment but I don't regret voting for him despite how terrible I feel about the ending of Day 1.

This post annoys the hell out of me. His 2 votes on 1 shot wonder and penguin had no actual text so how the fuck could they be serious votes?

He also actual did have a solid reasoning for the time to vote pine (I had a similar opinion.) underneath the bad one if you bothered to check.

That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

Also as people have said before lying about checking your role pm isn't alignment indicative also it's possible he didn't lie and just sent the words confirm with out checking the role.

This is more a bitching post than anything I just wanted to get it off my chest.

[Garmr]

Garmr, we've played together before. You're smarter than this. Blind tunneling is looking scummy.

Pine what do you mean by "not really grok what's going on in this game"

Well, aside from the fact that the meaning is pretty plain via context, and the fact that you have Google at your fingertips (and Google has a good definition), I'll clarify. Grok is an obscure slang to indicate intuitive understanding. I was suggesting that LUV seems lost and more than a little confused, which in my book suggests he's part of the uninformed majority. There's also a competence connotation that I was trying not to make explicit, out of politeness.

His difficulty getting a handle on the game does not strike me as artifice.

Ok lets take the people and our reads on each other out of the equation. This for everyone else as well.

we have factor 1, 2, 3 and scum

Say I am factor 1 I know I am town but for this equation lets put me at null since you don't have that information unless you are scum.
You are factor 2
And tb is factor 3

Factor 1 has a scum read on Factor 2. Scum comes along and tries to convince Factor 1 to shift his vote the Factor 3

No matter the alignment of factor 1 or 2 factor 3 is unlikely to be scum.

If factor 1 is town scum is unlikely to try and convince factor 1 to vote factor 3 if factor 3 was a scum buddy. Because if factor 2 is town the wagon on factor 2 is more likely to get lynched than factor 3 who was in a pretty comfy position. If Factor 2 is scum then it makes no sense to suggest another scum buddy over factor 2.

If factor 1 is scum (not the case but lets factor it anyway.) It still makes no sense for factor 3 to be scum because of factor 3s position in the game (unlikely to get lynched.). if factor 2 is town then there's no reason to move off factor 2 to a scum buddy and if factor 2 is scum then that's the whole scum team making 3 town by default.

All the paths lead to tb being town in my book.

[Garmr]

Garmr, we've played together before. You're smarter than this. Blind tunneling is looking scummy.

Pine what do you mean by "not really grok what's going on in this game"

Well, aside from the fact that the meaning is pretty plain via context, and the fact that you have Google at your fingertips (and Google has a good definition), I'll clarify. Grok is an obscure slang to indicate intuitive understanding. I was suggesting that LUV seems lost and more than a little confused, which in my book suggests he's part of the uninformed majority. There's also a competence connotation that I was trying not to make explicit, out of politeness.

His difficulty getting a handle on the game does not strike me as artifice.

You're right we have played together before and didn't we lose a entire game because of my blind tunneling (A problem I have been trying to work on) Also dwlee can attest to me blind tunneling in a past game with him. So what's curious is how your trying to portray it as scummy here as a threat to try and make back off. Also I'm not blindly tunneling here notice how I haven't placed a vote yet I'm processing the information from a drealmers scum flip still.

[Garmr]

It's called 'bussing,' Garmr. Your theory ONLY works if I'm scum, and Drealmerz was trying to move votes off of him and onto me. Considering that Drealmerz was actually attacking me pretty hard at day end, your premise doesn't hold water.

It's a classic soft bus. Mention two people, one Town and the other your scumbuddy. Give an unsupported scumread against your buddy, then spend your time attacking your real target. Hint: It was me.

PEdit: I don't remember the game you're referring to, but it doesn't really matter. If you lost a game that way, you correct the behavior and move on. You don't get to continually use it as an excuse to do scummy shit. I mean, Christ, you've hardly given an opinion on anyone other than me and now TB.

What reasoning does he have to bus and why push tb over you if you are town? Also I'm not using it as a excuse and I'm not hard tunneling. Pine You honestly haven't put any real content out there just a bunch of random insults at people who pushed you day 1.

Day 2 case on tb is pretty meh as well.

[Garmr]

The only person I've been mocking is you Garmr, so you can stow that plural pronoun.

Further, he didn't really push TB over me. As I said in literally the post before yours, he mentioned TB, then went after me. That's a classic soft bus. You offer up your teammate without much supporting evidence, then go after your true target - me.

Seriously, flipped scum offered one target, then went after me. How does that not scream bait-and-switch to you?

Case on TB is pretty solid. You're kinda the one who's doing nothing but throwing shade.

PEdit: Fuck off, I'll read whatever I like into whatever else I like. Vote bullying like you're doing is also a scumtell. Chainsawing this early? Amateur.

To josh before he went off the rails you over reacted.

[Garmr]

Actually now I think about it the only one you didn't overreact to being suspicious of you is the actual scum member himself drealmerz7. What made him different to me and josh?

[Garmr]

Hey pine even through I'm attacking you the most right now it's because I'm trying to sort you because at the moment after the dreamer flip i'm unsure because i have three theroies on your alignment at the moment but I do have a slight lean to scum because your responses are pretty hostile when someone suspects you and I don't remember you being like that as town. But the important question I want to ask What's your opinion on the player NN30?

[Garmr]

So you think that uzi is more likely scum than TB?

Yep, hence the vote. For your points, I don't think he should get credit for unvoting. Notice that right before he unvoted, Pine (a dominant force in this thread and likely town) voted dreal for trying to keep the wagon alive. His unvote could easily be him trying to stay out of the hot seat.

I feel like town would be more likely to screw up a votecount than scum. Screwing up a votecount that badly is something that'll get people looking at you, which isn't something that noob scum would want. Noob scum would almost certainly be more careful

I feel like i'm in the twilight zone.

Can anyone actually point out a real case that pine ran on day 1 and why it has merit?

[Garmr]

Hey Penguin where'd you go?

You were all kinds of talkative when you were defending yourself...

Where are you now?

Sleeping!

Talking about sleep I need some I couldn't be bothered posting today work was tiring.

[Garmr]

No one can legit answer me why pine is town just a whole bunch of people saying pine is town.

[Garmr]

Dreal had Pine as scum and was pushing it.
It's pretty easy to work out to be honest.

When you actually bothering to look deeper and pay attention you would actually notice despite how much dreal pushed pine he never voted him. Also he tried to move the only vote off pine onto thinkbig. Instead of you know shifting his vote to pine which would of gained more traction than TB at the time.

Also he tried to move the only vote off pine onto thinkbig. Instead of you know shifting his vote to pine which would of gained more traction than TB.

Also he tried to move the only vote off pine onto thinkbig. Instead of you know shifting his vote to pine which would of gained more traction than TB

Also he tried to move the only vote off pine onto thinkbig. Instead of you know shifting his vote to pine which would of gained more traction than TB

[Garmr]

I feel like the people here can only play at the surface level instead of looking into motivations ect. At least try to rebut me.

[Garmr]

So, Garmr, are you suggesting a link between Dreal and Pine? I actually think that the surface level is what you are looking at with the Dreal/Pine thing. We know Dreal was scum but do you think scum would try to move one vote off their partner when someone can easily point to that and link the two? I think it was more of a ploy so that when Dreal flipped someone would draw lines to Pine and take him down.

Buzz nope your still on surface level. The correct argument and line of reasoning is if pine is town why wouldn't he just move his vote over to pine when he had the chance so many times? Super fucking simple stuff.

[Garmr]

Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.

ThinkBig is the correct lynch.

Incorrect way of trying to frame things. Stop trying to frame my argument as something completely diffrent that's scummy.
I actually talked about what he said and did and compared them which goes beyond surface level. My argument goes into the motivation of the action not just the action itself learn to fucking argue thanks.

[Garmr]

Because Josh was already lynched. Fucking simple stuff

But not everyone knew that because someone said that 6 votes lynched him and people forgot to count the 7th and the game went on like it wasn't. your point is redundant.

[Garmr]

So, Garmr, are you suggesting a link between Dreal and Pine? I actually think that the surface level is what you are looking at with the Dreal/Pine thing. We know Dreal was scum but do you think scum would try to move one vote off their partner when someone can easily point to that and link the two? I think it was more of a ploy so that when Dreal flipped someone would draw lines to Pine and take him down.

Buzz nope your still on surface level. The correct argument and line of reasoning is if pine is town why wouldn't he just move his vote over to pine when he had the chance so many times? Super fucking simple stuff.

What are you talking about? I've re-read D1 three times now. There was never a moment where I felt a pine wagon was going to flair up. What are you talking about with you 'so many times' argument?

The D1 was a joke. We disucssed some RVS crap and then ran up Josh for his bad play.

There weren't 'so many' opportunities.

Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.

ThinkBig is the correct lynch.

I'm sold.

VOTE: TB

Tell me when a TB wagon was more viable over pine during day 1? The point was no one was voting tb except the actual scum member and even through he was pushing on pine he didn't switch his vote. He had the chance to at anytime switch the vote especially when I declined him trying to buddy up to me.

[Garmr]

So, Garmr, are you suggesting a link between Dreal and Pine? I actually think that the surface level is what you are looking at with the Dreal/Pine thing. We know Dreal was scum but do you think scum would try to move one vote off their partner when someone can easily point to that and link the two? I think it was more of a ploy so that when Dreal flipped someone would draw lines to Pine and take him down.

Buzz nope your still on surface level. The correct argument and line of reasoning is if pine is town why wouldn't he just move his vote over to pine when he had the chance so many times? Super fucking simple stuff.

What are you talking about? I've re-read D1 three times now. There was never a moment where I felt a pine wagon was going to flair up. What are you talking about with you 'so many times' argument?

The D1 was a joke. We disucssed some RVS crap and then ran up Josh for his bad play.

There weren't 'so many' opportunities.

Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.

ThinkBig is the correct lynch.

I'm sold.

VOTE: TB

Tell me when a TB wagon was more viable over pine during day 1? The point was no one was voting tb except the actual scum member and even through he was pushing on pine he didn't switch his vote. He had the chance to at anytime switch the vote especially when I declined him trying to buddy up to me.

Neither were ever beyond 10% viable.

Your point is moot.

You don't understand What I was meaning was it would of been better for him to switch to pine if pine was town he didn't........ Why is everyone taking what I'm trying to say and misunderstanding it.

I'm voting pine his pushing pine yet pushing tb harder. I'm still on pine he tries convincing me to shift my vote from pine to TB.

It's not about if a wagon is going to take off it's about him wanting me to move my vote from his supposed scum read of pine to tb instead.


LIKE HOW HARD IS IT TO GET THAT SCUM WANTED ME TO MY VOTE OFF SOMEONE HIS BEEN PUSHING TO ANOTHER PERSON.

[Garmr]

Also i am remembering wrong about him I thought he was voting tb. But it doesn't change the core fact Oh the whole caps locked line.

[Garmr]

Also for the whole day 1 pine had a lot of post with minimal scum hunting they were just reactionary. I also think tb is a horrible way to vote.

Some of the people voting tb are using the reasoning that Scum pushed pine so pine is town(flawed logic) but ignore the fact that scum pushed tb harder.

[Garmr]

Garmr - your case is incomprehensible.

You need to communicate more effectively.

We've gone in circles and I still don't know what you're trying to say.

Ok

Simple lets start with part 1

Garmr - to me both pine and TB came out a bit scummy from that stuff but TB was more scummy to me what you see as trying to figure it out seems more like a convenient fake of scum-hunting - FoS on both

This post is around the time I am pushing pine.

Here scum tries to engage with me but instead of fueling my pine scum read he is trying to convince me that tb is worse than pine. It's none at this point I had a town read on josh so if pine is town why would dreaml aka scum try to convince me that tb is worse.

Also this should indicate why tb is town as well. Because why would scum try to convince me to vote there scum buddy over a town member?

[Garmr]

known at this point*

[Garmr]

part 2 is that pine treats me and josh different than the confirmed scum dreaml. When me and josh suspected pine he had a emotional reaction like a bratty 9 year old but when dreaml put forward a case he ignored it.

[Garmr]

Also since someone brought up how fast day 1 went and how it was a joke. The people voting josh's was the reasoning day 1 was a joke. Like it was fucking obvious to me. Now the vote on tb make me cringe even more and it's from the same shit people as the ones that voted josh.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - please reference specific posts and instances for your 'part 2.'

A few things. Your 330 makes a lot of sense to me. Here's what I think is safe to conclude from what you are trying to say:

Confirmed scum Dreamer responds to a case on pine by FoS both Pine and TB. He lands on TB, however, with the stronger suspicion.

What does this say about TB? He's probably town.

What does this say about Pine? One of two things - he's either scum that Dreamer soft defended, or he's town.

Here's my best argument for town pine in the context of this discussion - Dreamer's actions cannot be looked at in black and white terms. He could have soft defended his buddy, yes, but he could also just be saying crap in an attempt to get town read or in an attempt to confuse town. You cannot conclusively say that Pine is scum because of this isnstance.

Which is why I want you to point to specific instances for your 'part 2' so that we can futher this discussion.

FTR - I have a strong town read on Pine because of his and I's interactions following the D1 1shot no lynch discussion. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong here - it's on you to convince me.

Agreed 100% with the bolded. But at least you understand my case. But these interactions

Hey garmr, your hardon for me is showing. Two inches? Pathetic.

PEdit: Fuck off, I'll read whatever I like into whatever else I like. Vote bullying like you're doing is also a scumtell. Chainsawing this early? Amateur.

this ones at josh who flipped town. But watch how he responds to dreamers

Drealmerz, look later on the Josh wagon. My reasoning was at least original, the rest of the wagon just steeped onto it.

His not the wanka he was acting as towards me or josh. It's a total emotionless exchange.

Also

Vote drealmerz

This guy is WAY too disappointed at the dissolution of the Josh wagon. Why so invested in it? He was an easy lynch, looks like disappointed scum.

I'm fucking devastated. Seriously. It's fucking bogus. Scum tactics through and through. He sells it well, but I am NOT BUYING IT. If he hadn't self-voted I MAYYYYYYYBE would have MAYYYYYBE dropped it depending on the rest of it, but, nononononono, that is just SCUMMMMMMMMMMM. And if he gets replaced because you guys let him go...omfg...graaahhhhhhhhhhhhh...."ohno they caught me replace me" - it's a fucking free pass

NOOOOO.

It's gotta be my HS culture. No doubt.

This outrage seems out of place. Normally you wouldn't care if your fake or real scum read votes you because you want them lynched and if your town you would think there scum anyway. I think this more outrage at a scum buddy who has done something they didn't agree with.

[Garmr]

Will say that pines day 2 play is better than his day 1 play through even through his case on tb is really bad it's on the level as the cases presented against josh.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - I see what you're saying and your case on Pine isn't convincing. I can refute point by point if you want to belabor the issue, but the short version is everything you've found could come from either a town or a scum Pine. You've posted no reason for me to lean scum, either.

I've actually had past experience with pine so I think I know him better than you.

[Garmr]

So:

I am town reading the following players.

Gamer
LUV
Secret Agent
Dark Horse

Town lean:

Pine
TB

Null:
1 shot
Flubbernugget

Scum lean:
Penguin

I'd like to more strongly discuss my null and scum reads. We're going in circles Garmr. Take the tunnel goggles off.

Re: Penguin - I posted a case on him to which only he reaponded. I'd like more input on it.

Re: Flubber - post man...
@1 shot - what's your take on the Garmr Pine fiasco?

I did have a theory that at the start of the day you and pine were scum but I changed my mind on that. Your day 2 has been pretty good and the way you engaged with me doesn't feel like how scum would. On the off chance you are scum have a cookie because your doing a real good job of looking town at the moment.

So can you summarize your case on penguin I haven't really looked into the player yet.

[Garmr]

So can you summarize your case on penguin I haven't really looked into the player yet.

Or anyone else, really.

I feel like Tb is town and I have been look at n30 closely before making a decision about him. But you can continue sooking and trying to frame me as incapable of doing anything but tunneling you. I was right about how josh was town lol. Also I had a gut feeling about dreamlz was when he tried to push me off you through I didn't really state it outloud. So right now I'm feeling pretty confident in my reads.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - 281

I lay it out there.

Either PP is dumb town or scum for saying what I quote in 281.

I'm leaning scum.

You do realize that it's the exact same situation with me and pine as your case on penguin right it could be either bad town or scum. While It's entirely possible that all his motivations were town it would still come from scum And weighing up the odds we both concluded it would most likely come from scum.

But looking at PP reaction I can see how you got there. But at the moment I'm on the fence with pp.

What I do believe is there is already at least one scum on the TB wagon already.

[Garmr]

That's just bad logic.

Says the one who played a part in lynching joshz and is going to try and lynch tb even through tb is pretty fucking town.

[Garmr]

I tried to put the brakes on the Josh lynch after his meltdown, but yeah, re-interpret history however you fucking want.

You tried to put the break on it right. That's why you're invited in post 170

[Garmr]

I tried to put the brakes on the Josh lynch after his meltdown, but yeah, re-interpret history however you fucking want.

You tried to put the break on it right. That's why you're invited in post 170

Fuck I hate phone posting will actually play when I get home

[Garmr]

nn bussing drealmer was a no brainer

I think people are using this to town read pine thinking him busting is a town sign. Can you tell me why you think pine is town?

[Garmr]

I tried to put the brakes on the Josh lynch after his meltdown, but yeah, re-interpret history however you fucking want.

But that's were you pushing forward the wrong version of history. You didn't try to put a stop anything you just unvoted him you didn't push he was town actively. I don't ever remember you trying to take credit for things as town and trying to improve your image. Hell I tried harder to stop the wagon than you and that's just me announcing my town read and why.


Also

Drealmerz, look later on the Josh wagon. My reasoning was at least original, the rest of the wagon just steeped onto it.

This seems a like little nudge to a scum buddy to get off and also a lie in way.

VOTE: 1 shot wonder

=P

See? Still not out of RVS. Stop bitching about him voting no lynch, that's not scum indicative it's newbie indicative. Not newbie townie, just newbie. That post you quoted, Pine, is a clear joke, and trying to build a serious argument around it is awful. And you can't make an argument against no lynch in Mylo because sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's not, that's a game specific situation, there's no blanket answer.

So real vote: VOTE: pine

I could forgive post 50 as being an RVS (which I very clearly think it is).

That said you basically took my reasoning as the gospel in post 70. Not even a question of my motivations - you just use it to attempt to skewer Pine.

OH well spotted. I can choose to let 1SVT go as having made a joke in poor taste, but this blatant cogdis needs rope.

Vote joshz

Keep up this kind of analytical thinking, nn30, and I think we'll get along just fine.

You sheeped your reason for the josh vote. You never made your own reasoning up. I caught you in a fucking lie.

VOTE: Pine

@town
Look through pine's post you can see hints of pine being aware of his own image and trying to portray himself a certain way. When accused of legit criticism as well he verbally bashes the person voting him. He never has once attacked the case.

Ugh, this game.

Moving on. I'm inclined to look at the latter part of Josh's wagon to try and identify opportunistic scum smelling blood in the water and going for the kill. Looking at the votes, that suggests to me {Drealmerz, ThinkBig, and LUV}, the 4th, 5th, and 6th votes on him, respectively. The merit of this approach is immediately evident, as Drealmerz scummed right onto the wagon. Regrettably, I spotted that a little too late D1 to save Josh. Fortunately, Vig/SK saw it too and we don't have to spend a lynch on him. That leaves me to look at ThinkBig and LUV. Of the two, LUV seems to not really grok what's going on in this game, and it comes off as a bit unfeigned. I'm inclined to think the sheep onto the Josh wagon was a genuine sheep off of a well-presented (albeit incorrect) case.

That leaves ThinkBig. Drealmerz and TB both went for Josh in rapid succession, elevating that wagon from an early exploration and pressure to L-2. I

t's hardly a wonder that newbieTown panicked, felt ostracized, and suicided.

Taken as a whole, TB's behavior strikes me as opportunistic, as does his daystart congratulating the Vig. He's a bit new too, so it's hardly inconceivable that he just wouldn't know that that sort of thing is a common overcompensating behavior of disappointed scum, on par with betting too big on a bluff in order to cover the fact that you've got nothing. Attack on Flubber in 210 fits with this theory, as it serves to suppress or discredit new perspectives before they appear.

Vote ThinkBig

His reasoning for day 2 are basically redundant scumtells thanking the vig is common practice on other sites and the votes tell is pretty shit because not only have I seen town only lynches on town before but Scum have grown aware of this because it's common knowledge it's become worthless. None of these tells actually put into details TB Cases or motivations.

The bolded shows that your case makes TB out to be the villain and josh a poor helpless victim. It's a sentence structure that tug on our heart strings. But like Hitlers speech it's just emotion.

Honestly I don't think scum would leave this

VOTE: Josh

I'm leaving my vote right here until Josh reads his PM and knows his alignment. I hope he is aware that this could get him restricted.

As a reasoning to vote because it's obvious the amount of backlash one would get. He would have to be one of the dumbest scum members to do this and I don't think TB by his other posts is dumb.

Before I posted this I did start having doubt that tb may be town because his replace out was suss. But he has replaced out site wide so I'm not going to factor that in.

[Garmr]

My boners not going away till you satisfy it pine,satisfy with your blood.

[Garmr]

Cool. Is this a situation where I can just donate some to the Red Cross every few months so you can take a hit when you need it? Get a life.

It's a game so harden the fuck up and stop whinging every time someone suspects you.

[Garmr]

In kinder words let's be adults.

[Garmr]

Who else other than me is scum reading pine shadow?

[Garmr]

Nobody.

Then what is the point of this post

Anyone who thinks pine is scum at this point I'm very suspicious of because of something very obvious.

I have a TR on Garmr but his push on pine isn't helping at all.

There is really no need to bring this up as a town. This is the first post that raised red flags from your slot for me.

[Garmr]

I said that because of your push on Pine.

But why mention the whole scummy bit if it was a response to me and you think I'm town?

Also side note flubbers different than other games his talking more than usual and I don't know how to take that.

[Garmr]

Honestly not feeling day 2 I want pine gone and even through shadow latest question was meh think big was townie as fuck in my book.

Flubber is neutral for me and I don't mind if he goes or not because I have trouble figuring him out. But his wagon seems more like a convenience thing since there wasn't any wagons that would contend with thinkbig and people seem to have blown out of proportion.

[Garmr]

blown flubbers posts out of proportion. *

[Garmr]

Intent to hammer if that's everything. Tbh I want more flips so I can get a clearer image because day 2 is kinda meh.

[Garmr]

Hey garmr

You claimed intent to hammer after I already claimed and I'm still here

What gives

Just want to hear what others have to say. People like Jin and pp who haven't talked much are getting a word in.

[Garmr]

The amount of content per post is different. I've posted more.

[Garmr]

Yeah...that's debatable with posts about boners and phone posting. Regardless, it's still a weak answer to flubber.

Yeh because lulz what ever and how was dinner . Also your defensive post aren't what I consider pro active as town.

Can I ask why it's not acceptable to wait while other people post content. Why do you think it is a good thing to cut the convo short ?

[Garmr]

As I said...debatable.

With two competing wagons, and a strong preference for one, I think it's more of an excuse to "intent" and lay wait for an indefinite period just because we have time remaining (3ish days). If you think you have scum, get that flip and let's use that info going forward. If you aren't confident...then why place intent? Seems wishy-washy. You can get content without an intent sitting there.

And just because I placed intent doesn't mean I have to hammer straight away. I find it odd that your getting worked up over me not hammering. You have earned a place on my scum list.

[Garmr]

And just because I placed intent doesn't mean I have to hammer straight away. I find it odd that your getting worked up over me not hammering. You have earned a place on my scum list.

This right here is making me want to re-think my town read on you.

Why would you declare intent to hammer if he wasn't already on your scum list?

Because I said his null and I find him hard to read and it's near the end of the day and I'm willing to compromise. It's not rocket science.

If you want to do a flash wagon on me to save flubbed be my guest.

[Garmr]

I started the wagon on Flubber

Care to revise Garmr?

I know you started it on flubbed that's the point. If you think holding your vote off till near the end but declaring your willing to vote some one as compromise is scummy then go ahead. That's just ticked me off that that someone can be that stupid to declare that as scummy. Learn to fucking play.

[Garmr]

Let's play a game let's see who has more than half a brain and can figure out why waiting to hammer after declaring intent is determental as scum.

[Garmr]

It's been like half a hour lets answer it.

It allows town to talk and if you don't do it fast enough they will ask why which puts you in the spotlight.

At this point in the game I don't need to take risk if I was scum as I was pretty much being universally town read. If I hammered flubber earlier no one would of bat to much of a eye to it.

So if flubber is scum and I was scum-
I could of jumped on the wagon earlier or not at all. Also flubber wouldn't of called me out for not hammering him yet. Also I could of made some bs reason to put shadow as the lead wagon.

If flubber is town and i'm scum- I could of hammered earlier or just waited for someone else to hammer him and there would of been no pressure on me.

There's no positives for a scum me to wait for a bit and hear out someones conversation.

The fact that anyone suspects waiting as scummy just shows how far mafia scums player base has declined in recent years.

[Garmr]

Read #4

JC please don't tell me I'm the only one to have read that.

To be honest I didn't know this was a open game till day two.

[Garmr]

The fact that anyone suspects waiting as scummy just shows how far mafia scums player base has declined in recent years.

You've bastardized why I found your post weird in the first place. It has nothing to do with you waiting.

Re-read my 594.

Great - now that it's fresh on your brain, I'll tell you again why it was weird.

Your 593 suggests that you declared intent to hammer without having a scum read on Flubber. Why in the name of the mafia gods would you do this as town?

The fact that you've side-stepped why I found it weird, created a straw man ('the fact that anyone suspects waiting as scummy'), and knocked down that straw man ('just shows how far mafia scum player base has declined') shows just how poor people are at debate nowadays. You're trying to debate me on a position I never held and you're declaring yourself the winner because you knocked down a straw man of your own making.

Stop that.

You're embarrassing yourself.

...... The bit you quoted was the original argument against me by flubber and PP and the fact you didn't realize that is kinda sad. So please stop embarrassing yourself.

Since your newbie I will cut you some slack because it's a concept you may of not grasped yet.



Look I am not able to get my scum read lynched today and a no lynch is bad for town.
The wagons are
a town read who's been a bit suss with the new slot but still in the town sphere
and
a null read who has claimed vt

Do you know what a compromise lynch is?

It's when you can't lynch who you want to but want to avoid a nolynch. Look at past games they are everywhere on mafia scum.

A null read can be either town or scum and with a vt claim i'm not really losing out on anything or risking lynching a power role. If flubber lynch scum that's awesome and a win for me If I lynch a vt that's a shame but I get rid of a uncertainty which may lead to a mislynch in mylo and is a better play for me.

town reads are what you want around Null reads especially those who stay in null territory like flubber are risks and scum reads are bigger risks.
Preferably you want to get rid of the bigger risks but if that is unlikely near the end of a day it's perfectly acceptable to compromise on a smaller risk.

Also that's one of the reasons why it's viable for vigs to shoot people they are null reading instead of just their scum reads.

I think you have the mentality that a null read is a potential town read instead of a risk.

[Garmr]

1) If it wasn't directed at me, I don't know why your reply (which was directed at me) included it.

2) Stop being insulting. It makes the game significantly less fun to be in. I appreciate the attempt you've made at teaching me your point of view, but I'd appreciate in the future if you took the opportunity to attempt to teach me without also taking the opportunity to insult me.

3) I understand exactly what you're saying with a compromise lynch. The post I had a problem with indicated nothing about a compromise lynch - so I'm now forced to believe you when you say that that was the intention. Your insulting me is not leading me to trust you on this matter.

Fin.

1.Lumping you in just in case you go that route.

2.You tried to be smart ass with me in the post so I copy and pasted one line and refrained from being a smart ass after that.

3. Because what else can it be nn30? It should of been obvious that it was a compromise lynch from the start. Flubbers a null read and My scum read (now two) is not going to be lynched today. It's near the end of the day with not much time left. No offense NN30 but I feel like I shouldn't be having this conversation with anybody because you should of been able to see that it was a compromise lynch a mile away and that annoys me. Also your original argument was no town should declare intent to hammer on a none scum read now you got a reasoning why town can and should declare intent on a null read at the end of the day and your still trying to hang on to it to keep your pride intact I also have the same problem some times.


VOTE: Flubber

[Garmr]

So nn30 want to continue the convo from yesterday?

[Garmr]

Oddly enough after yesterday I don't think we should lynch pine because there's 1 or 2 scenarios where he could be town. I think he should be a vig shot. If the vig dies I will be willing to lynch pine.

[Garmr]

No no, Flubber read is based on a S_S scumflip. Not until then.

Intent to hammer Flubbernugget. I'd prefer S_S, but either works.

Thoughts on this, Pine?

What thoughts would you like? I had a weak scumread on Flubber, and compromised on his lynch when my preferred one wasn't going through. As for both of them flipping Town, I need to reevaluate a bit.

garmr
1Shot Vanilla Town
Secret Agent Jin
nn30
Pine
Lil Uzi Vert
PenguinPower

I have strong enough TRs on Garmr and nn30 to set them aside.

1Shot Vanilla Town
Secret Agent Jin
Lil Uzi Vert
PenguinPower

Half of this pool are scum. I've had weak TRs on LUV and PP, so offhand I'm going to say 1SVT and SAJ? Need to do some ISOs when I haven't been drinking.

PEdit: Same to you, dick.

You should feel honored that I have enough doubt to give you a chance of some sort.

[Garmr]

The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark? I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that. Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.

@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?

@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?

Basically I came up with a idea on how to sort pine that I'm keeping to myself If it fails I'll lynch him.

[Garmr]

I'm not Vig, though I applaud their choices. The responsibility of a Vig is to act as a second lynch. We definitely would have wasted a ML on TB/S_S

VOTE: Pine

There goes my only doubt. Also I was right about TB/S-S and they should of never even been a option to lynch.

[Garmr]

Judging by the night kills scum are comfortable with their position because the big talkers aren't dying.

[Garmr]

My gut says a active player and lurker player Is scum. The active players probably keeping heat off the lurker and pushing for town lurkers. I feel like luv is probably scum out the lurkers.

[Garmr]

Then why the fuck is your vote on me.

Flashwagon on LUV?

VOTE: luv
Honestly I'm starting to doubt your scum at this point I do want you to be through.

[Garmr]

Boring is interesting (pun intended). She's probably not scum from her entrance but I can see her fucking over town in mylo or nailing scum she goes against the general consensus. Claiming today is not a good idea through with a jailkeeper ect were better claiming around mylo. I want her around for tomorrow through.

@Boring I Feel like it's pretty obvious i'm town but my thoughts on jin I'm not sure. You did remind me of something jin said through.

The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark?

I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that.

Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.

@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?

@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?

I think the bolded is odd but I can't work out a reason why someone would say that. I don't think it's scummy or town just odd.

[Garmr]

This may be my the way I read it but his conclusion should go to one of me or pine is scum with the tone and the build up in his post. If it would of been better for scum to shoot me or pine to draw eyes to the other then if i was in position on that thought track I would think there is a possibility that one is scum. But he doesn't seem to reach it or show it so it's kinda intriguing.

[Garmr]

This may be my the way I read it but his conclusion should go to one of me or pine is scum with the tone and the build up in his post. If it would of been better for scum to shoot me or pine to draw eyes to the other then if i was in position on that thought track I would think there is a possibility that one is scum. But he doesn't seem to reach it or show it so it's kinda intriguing.

I meant that in the mindset that you and pine were TvT, it would be easy for scum to kill one of you and then pin the kill on the other one thus eliminating two town and having the next night phase to kill a third town member. Alright, you are/were so sure Pine is scum from the previous days read through that if scum killed Pine and he flipped town then it makes you look a bit worse and an easier target for a mislynch. I hope that describes what i meant in my post you quoted.

In saying that, i do believe that Garmr is town from the way he handled his read on Pine and through general conversation and interaction with everyone else. He did drive his scumread of Pine sort of hard but he ended up being able to avoid the tunnel and compromise on a different lynch.

I'm going to say this If the either one of us was killed it would be wrote off as wifom despite My scum read on pine in the beginning Me and him are pretty much on the side that isn't going to be lynched anytime soon.

[Garmr]

@boring I know this is completely off topic and I'll post latter on topic when I get back from the whole two hours of work (Even if they understaffed why do they need me for just 2 hours..)

But the question is why has your avi got a massive forehead?

[Garmr]

It doesn't really matter since it's open Scum would be dumb not to claim vt.

[Garmr]

And then we clear at least two people and increase our chances of lynching scum. Also helps the vig tonight because they won't hit the role cop if they shoot.

Big won't be able to shoot. Still worth it through

[Garmr]

May as well start claiming talking about it does nothing I'm vanilla ice.

[Garmr]

Vanilla town *

[Garmr]

Ice ice baby?

[Garmr]

Hey pine were you on the scum team before the reroll I was town but I'm curious who the scum team was.

[Garmr]

If the role cop has some vanilla results that are still alive that will give us a lynch pool of 3 (for the vanilla townies) with one confirmed scum the jail keeper) in it. That's pretty good odds.

[Garmr]

Boring It kinda annoys me you keep insinuating that I may be scum because I'm widely being town read. You also leave pine off that list even through he is widely town read as well. So instead of just saying these people may be scum it's gotta be one of them and potentially mislynching a townie in mylo because of paranoia, you go through every suspected town reads iso and list why they could be scum and why they could be town.

[Garmr]

Pines not guaranteed scum but I still have a gut feeling about him. If he is scum he deserves the win then I can be like to everyone else haa I was right fucking told you so.

[Garmr]

Also I think people should read their roles again since we were rerolled it would be a head fuck if the role cop didn't do any investigation because they didn't read the reroll.

[Garmr]

Boring It kinda annoys me you keep insinuating that I may be scum because I'm widely being town read. You also leave pine off that list even through he is widely town read as well. So instead of just saying these people may be scum it's gotta be one of them and potentially mislynching a townie in mylo because of paranoia, you go through every suspected town reads iso and list why they could be scum and why they could be town.

I've never left Pine off. At least, I don't think I have. I don't expect to be too hasty in MYLO, if I get there either. I'd just like to get there. We could lose today/tonight, and that's my biggest worry right now. I'm sorry that it annoys you, but I just don't buy that all the townread players are town. Also, I have gone through the ISO's already, but I feel like I need more information. Especially for you and Pine. If we could get a confirmation on one of the four of you, this will be so much easier.

p-edit: I'm assuming that our mod would have sent out some kind of "get your NA's in to me by such-and-such time" message to remind them. I've not been a town PR on this site, but I know they usually do that in the scum PT. It would be weird not to do it for the PRs.

This game I feel like I have been better at town hunting than scum hunting. Then again town seems to have a obsession with killing my strongest town reads. Maybe If I look through some facts it will be easier.

[Garmr]

...... Kmd if you are a power role and fake claiming that just fucking over town.

[Garmr]

If you are town and fake claiming your given scum the chance to counter claim in lylo. Because honestly I can see scum writing 796 so they can fakeclaim in lylo if the town role really doesn't want to claim.

[Garmr]

Well they should quit mafia after doing that.

[Garmr]

Blue is just for LUV if he calims a power then it becomes green

Vote count 1.1

JoshZ - Secret Agent Jin, nn30, Pine,

drealmerz7

,

ThinkBig

,

Lil Uzi Vert

,

JoshZ

LYNCH!!
Lil Uzi Vert -

Dark Horse

(L-6)
Thinkbig - PenguinPower (L-6)
No Lynch - 1 Shot Vanilla Town (L-6)

Not Voting (3):

garmr, gerryoat, Flubbernugget

Day ends in

(expired on 2016-12-08 21:00:00)

JoshZ has been Lynched!!

They were:

Vanilla Town

Night ends in (expired on 2016-11-27 21:00:00)

So we know scum jumped onto the josh wagon. I doubt there isn't two or more scum on it. Because I know I'm town and I don't think penguin and vanilla town are scum together.

So that leaves

Secret Agent Jin

Pine

nn30

As a chance of being scum.

Vote count 2.4

Shadow_step

- Pine, PenguinPower, 1 Shot Vanilla Town,

Flubbernugget

(L-2)

Flubbernugget

- nn30,

Lil Uzi Vert

, Secret Agent Jin (L-3)

Lil Uzi Vert

-

Dark Horse

(L-5)

1 Shot Vanilla Town -

Shadow_step

(L-5)

Pine -

Garmr

(L-5)

Not Voting (0):

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

Day ends in (expired on 2016-12-11 21:00:00)

I can easily see both scum being on each of the main wagons. Through I could see shadow having two scum on it I can't see flubber having two scum on it. If the other power role roleclaimed these vote analysis would be much easier and potentially show each of the scum lords. Noticing a trend of pine nn30 and secret agent jin here.

Also the vig is probably on shadow steps wagon judging from the fact shadow step was killed. As a vig shot.

Vote count 2.6

Flubbernugget

- nn30,

Lil Uzi Vert

, Secret Agent Jin,

Dark Horse

, Pine,

Garmr

LINCH!

Shadow_step - PenguinPower, 1 Shot Vanilla Town,

Flubbernugget

, (L-3)

1 Shot Vanilla Town -

Shadow_step

(L-5)

Not Voting (0):

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

Day ends in (expired on 2016-12-11 21:00:00)

Flubbernugget has been Lynched!!

They were:

Vanilla Town

Night ends in (expired on 2016-12-10 18:00:00)

Oh look pine is on every major wagon that is town. What is pine reasoning for him flubber

@462: Because scum.

In fact, this post is evidence to suggest that a shadow_step scumflip should be followed with a lynch of Flubber. Same reasons as before - makes a weak case on buddy, then attacks an actual victim.

Game solved. Drealmerz, TB/SS, Flubber.

GG.

If you check his iso he never gives a individual reason to vote flubber He just says that tb/ss had a weak case on flubber and that made him scum by association. That's a pretty pathetic case.

Hell I'm feeling like I got enough evidence to prove his scum with the flips with the next post.

[Garmr]

Ugh, this game.

Moving on. I'm inclined to look at the latter part of Josh's wagon to try and identify opportunistic scum smelling blood in the water and going for the kill. Looking at the

votes, that suggests to me {Drealmerz, ThinkBig, and LUV}, the 4th, 5th, and 6th votes on him

, respectively. The merit of this approach is immediately evident, as Drealmerz scummed right onto the wagon. Regrettably, I spotted that a little too late D1 to save Josh. Fortunately, Vig/SK saw it too and we don't have to spend a lynch on him. That leaves me to look at ThinkBig and LUV. Of the two, LUV seems to not really grok what's going on in this game, and it comes off as a bit unfeigned. I'm inclined to think the sheep onto the Josh wagon was a genuine sheep off of a well-presented (albeit incorrect) case.

That leaves ThinkBig. Drealmerz and TB both went for Josh in rapid succession, elevating that wagon from an early exploration and pressure to L-2. It's hardly a wonder that newbieTown panicked, felt ostracized, and suicided. Taken as a whole, TB's behavior strikes me as opportunistic, as does his daystart congratulating the Vig. He's a bit new too, so it's hardly inconceivable that he just wouldn't know that that sort of thing is a common overcompensating behavior of disappointed scum, on par with betting too big on a bluff in order to cover the fact that you've got nothing. Attack on Flubber in 210 fits with this theory, as it serves to suppress or discredit new perspectives before they appear.

Vote ThinkBig

Notice how he shift the attention to the latter slots on josh's wagon not the earlier slots. Using drealmerz flip to throw shades on think big and leaving enough doubt for luv while kissing up to him at the same time.

But when all is said and done the last scum is on a earlier point of the wagon. His intentionally setting up lynch opportunities here.

VOTE: Pine

[Garmr]

There's so many small things happening here to be called a coincidence.

[Garmr]

Ugh. Can't look at that properly when you color yourself green.

Well I know I'm green but if it annoys you so much why don't you ignore the fact I coloured myself green and look at what i'm trying to say. Instead of not attacking what I posted because I colored myself green.

[Garmr]

VOTE: kmd

Nice misrep of my analysis I didn't say there was guaranteed 3 scum on josh i said it was a possibility and there was atleast 2 guaranteed scum and one possibly off the wagon. I don't like the fact you are trying to set up wifom with I may the power role shit.

[Garmr]

The only reason the vote comes off now is if you confirm to be that power role or vanilla town. I hate the wifom shit and rather not put up with it at the momment.

[Garmr]

The Josh lynch makes no sense.

The possibilities:
1) one scum off the wagon.
---1a) boring was excited for a scum game or intentionally faked excitement as scum
---1b) garmr delayed that hammer as scum
2) scum late on the wagon. This means lil is not a power role and BOTH power roles fake claimed.
3) or all three scum voted josh early.

All three possibilities feel unreasonable and I can't come up with another.

I don't get it...

Preview edit: so it's completely impossible to the point that you have to make scum aware of it? We need to have a talk postgame. Remind me.

Also, Garmr isn't a scum read for me. He's one of the town reads that I need to be open to the idea of being wrong about because I only have one scum read (secret agent). It's called gamestate.

You are a possible scum read for me as well because I never liked how penguin power was throwing shade on me for deciding to hold off on a hammer it was a incredible reach and very opportunistic. I also am sick of people trying to tear down my pine case with out actually addressing the points I made.

[Garmr]

It actually annoys me to no end that people try to chainsaw the case by picking a bit that doesn't even debunk the case on pine.

[Garmr]

Garmr, what are you even talking about? I didn't say that you said that. I included it as one of my own possibilities. I was looking at the josh lynch, not your analysis of it.

Whatever. I'm vt. nn was right. I was trying to get scum to kill me. Wasn't convinced it would work, but figured it was worth a try. Also, a power role is trying to stay hidden for some reason. I was trusting them and trying to narrow scum's search by throwing myself back into their pool.

Nn, the point is to see how scum acted with the knowledge that he was town. It's rare for all three scum to vote together. It's rare for no scum to jump on such a tasty mislynch. Basically, scum did something out of the ordinary and what is bugging me is why. But if it's that all three voted together, assuming lil is town, that was dreal's doing and he doesn't strike me as the type to go out of the ordinary like that.

Boring, it's obviously between two people for who lied and it's obvious which of the two power roles they are. Hell, I'm 90% sure I know which of the two it is and it disappoints me that I couldn't protect that person by WIFOMing scum. I'll leave it up to them to elaborate and I understand the reasoning but whatever. The person is obvtown anyway.

Just want to point out jins vote was rvs and I doubt scum planned for that lynch to go through.

[Garmr]

*shrug*

If all three scum were there, dreal was the one who knowingly voted with his buddies so secret agent's vote being RVS is irrelevant.

did you see the way dreal reacted at pines vote on him

[Garmr]

Yep. Sarcasm and frustration. Doesn't seem like a scumbuddy. Scum tend to feel like their buddies will back off after distancing so they aren't so bothered by the vote. The exception is newbies and emotional players or a hard bus and none of those apply here.

........ dreal is a newbie and he seems like a emotional player.

[Garmr]

Now the other power role is a dick for not claiming earlier on.

[Garmr]

He doesn't many completed games and his reaction when he thought josh escaped the lynch was what I'd expect from a newbie emotional player.

[Garmr]

Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.

I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.

[Garmr]

Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.

I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.

Why?

Let me ask this, if we mislynch this phase then scum kill tonight whats the odds starting next day phase?

You know the answer. Especially if vig shoots town. So if you'd be a mislynch, where do you think we should be looking?

I feel like it should be obvious to anyone who's been here from the start.

[Garmr]

Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.

I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.

Why?

I feel like it should be obvious to anyone who's been here from the start.

Why should it be obvious to anyone who's been here from the start? Why would they see it differently than those of us who came in later?

I was under the impress that a fresh perspective late-game helps to clear out some of the bias, so please forgive me if I find your differentiation peculiar.

Because I'm garmr and I would appreciate it if you stopped throwing shade with out a case.

[Garmr]

It annoys me since I feel like I'm not being taken seriously with my pine case despite it being the best case this game.

[Garmr]

Why are you scum reading Garmr?

This is a slot I'm fairly certain is town - I'd like to hear why you think it is scum.

I should admit now that of the four of you, I've been most suspicious of Jin and garmr since I subbed in. I just wanted to see if I could be convinced otherwise first. That's why one of my first actions was to see how the two of them feel about each other. Obviously, you pinged me right away, but that feeling is subsiding somewhat.

He's not quite as strong a read as Jin, but here are a few little things adding together for me. In no particular order:
1. He hammered Flubber after Pine, his supposed scum read, put him at L-1.
2. He has focused on Pine almost to the exclusion of other players. It's so convenient, too. It allows him the illusion of scum hunting while actually contributing nothing to town.
3. He is very twitchy about even the slightest poking and prodding. As if investigation isn't part of the scum hunting process. Though, this could be shoved into NAI if it was the only thing. Some people just get big heads about being town read early, and then won't entertain the idea that eventually, their time will come *throws a significant glance at no one in particular*.
4. When asked about Jin, this was his response:

Spoiler:

@Boring I Feel like it's pretty obvious i'm town but my thoughts on jin I'm not sure. You did remind me of something jin said through.

In post 635, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark? I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that. Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.

@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?

@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?



I think the bolded is odd but I can't work out a reason why someone would say that. I don't think it's scummy or town just odd.

This isn't really an answer. It's an illusion of an answer. When asked about garmer, Jin's response was

Spoiler:

In saying that, i do believe that Garmr is town from the way he handled his read on Pine and through general conversation and interaction with everyone else. He did drive his scumread of Pine sort of hard but he ended up being able to avoid the tunnel and compromise on a different lynch.

It looks so much like a partner towing the company line. However, it seems like Jin can't even mention garmr without referencing Pine. As if that's garmr's entire identity this game. That, and the opportunistic counter-wagon hop to save Jin. By the way, I know pre-flip associations are frowned upon, but with a vig in the game, it's not a bad idea to give "if, then" statements here and there.
5. His "it's pretty obvious I'm town" changing to "it's obvious to those who were here from the beginning that I'm town" is the type of switch I often see in people who are losing a power grip.

To be fair, one town point in his favor

:
He seemed to actually advocate for his town reads when they had wagons. That's a risky move for scum (not that I've never done it, but I don't see it a lot).

1.Haven't you heard of bussing and the other guy was a strong town read I compromised on a null.
2.I have pushed pine as well looked at other players and discussed other players. So you can fuck off.
3.I been listening to you saying it's got to be one of the talkers and exclude pine for no reason at all. I been listing to you calling me scummy with out a case till now so you can fuck right off.
4.you can go fuck yourself again i'm not chainsawing for jin
5.fuck yourself.

[Garmr]

5.fuck yourself.

Does this really need to be a part of this game? Like? Really?

So it's ok for pine to do it to me but not me ok.

[Garmr]

That's fine I won't say anymore I will just vote her in lylo tomorrow instead if we don't lynch scum today. Because that will make 5 players left with two being scum

If she's town she can only blame herself. Because scum will quick hammer her after my vote or if she tries to push for my lynch she would of put town into lylo

If she scum it will force a 1v1 on her which is a bad situation.

I'm like 65 percent leaning on her town and 35 percent scum.

[Garmr]

Calmed down Sorry for the language.

[Garmr]

I don't know what alignment jin is but I hope his town then I can finally get enough momentum to lynch what I what to lynch. Since everyone but me has been pretty much wrong when it's come to lynching there preferred lynches.

[Garmr]

Really? What scum did you get lynched?

I tell you what I didn't do push cases on obvious town. Josh and shadowstep and I think I actually managed to save shadow till the vig stupidly killed him.

[Garmr]

Can i at least have the answers to why i am being lynch rather than people saying i am scummy and voting me?

Would like to hear this as well because Boring keeps trying to link me to you.

[Garmr]

Lil, if secret agent is town, the vig should only shoot if they are very sure they are shooting scum. If secret agent is scum, the vig should do whatever they damn please.

Garmr, my point is you can't claim you're the only one who has been right when you haven't pushed a scum lynch yet. Also, boring and I have yet to be proven wrong (or right for that matter) on any reads yet.

Well at least we would have two town alive today.

[Garmr]

I'm in a much better mood at the moment.

[Garmr]

Can i at least have the answers to why i am being lynch rather than people saying i am scummy and voting me?

I think I've made this case already, but it boils down to the big picture. It's pretty easy to worm your way into the middle of the town pack as scum, but it's much harder to accumulate actual town points. I haven't seen any reason to town read you.

More specifically, I've seen no attempts to scumhunt. I've seen a lot of pacifying remarks. You "wouldn't touch" the Pine v. garmr conflict, though you mention it plenty. If you're trying to solve the game, why be avoidant? You don't say things first, only second. As far as I recall, you've not voted first on a wagon, either (outside RVS). There's been no initiative. You've been present in the game just long enough to foster good will, and then receded back into the shadows. You've appeased, floated along, and survived.

This might just be how you do you, except looking at that completed town game, it's not. You are quite capable of following your hunches, and coming up with ideas. Your personality shined through the same, but your big picture was town. Even now, I think if you were town, you'd be trying to point us toward a better target, or at least try to fight it, like you did in that other game.

Now, if I'm/we're dead wrong, and you

do

flip town, we'll probably lose. Vig is gonna do what vig is gonna do, and I don't think he/she/it will be terribly open to suggestions. The most helpful thing I can think of (in the absence of any actual clears) would be your last testament. So Jin, this would be the time to make a case, if you have one to make. You've named a few suspects, but there's been no substance. We have three days left.

I don't think vig will get a shoot off because scum know who scum are and they can eliminate me and you from the vig pool so the chances of them missing vig with a jail is low.

[Garmr]

I could see nn but at the moment boring leans town

[Garmr]

Good game everyone. Sorry about my outburst. I though it was obvious pine was scum because I had enough games and knew the connection dearlmer and his voting patterns were a pine scum thing to do. I just wish people voted him with me.

[Garmr]

Yeh early game I was on the ball. Late game after town killed a majority of my town reads and my enthusiasm I got stuck in a rut.



Also who's got confirmation bias now lol.

[Garmr]

Can we have access to the dead thread and with mafia permission the mafia thread

[Garmr]

I was trying to get pine and me into a mylo situation so I could insti vote him and force a 1v1. I had a good a feeling I would of won that.
I actually didn't even notice jin was being universally town read. So when boring brought It up I found it strange.

[Garmr]

It was either kill me or kill confirmed town power roles near the end through pine.

[Garmr]

Yes, but you were dead set against me. I'd rather give a manipulable confirmed Townie the Kingmaker power and rely on my ability to convince them than go 1v1 in a threeway unknown situation.

Endgame is all about choice. Scum get to choose who they bring to the table.

That makes me feel good when you want to kill me over confirmed town.

[Garmr]

I'm going to give credit to joshz he helped me see pine for what he really was early game and if people actually payed attention to his points early game instead of dismissing him because he voted himself. You can see his reasoning was pretty solid.