mhsmith0's Large Normal Review

[Firebringer]

[quote]Mafia
Goon
1-shot elder
Roleblocker

Wolves
Defector (knows wolves, they don't know him)
1-shot bp
Odd night ninja, even night strongman

Town (12 total)
Vig
Vengeful
Doc (works on all kills)
Tracker (works on all actions)
Hider (standard mechanics, dies if visiting anti-town, not sure about defector)
1-shot bp
6 vts[//quote]
First of, I think number wise this hugely favors scum already. 33% of the players are scum. Thats too much.

Defector needs to be renamed traitor. Does he join werewolves if attacked? Are scum informed of them?

Full role blocker for scum is too powerful, I would limit shots.

Town roles are kind of meh (in power terms).
I believe hider does die if it targets a traitor, ill check that again.

Just reminder that Doc can't heal through a strongman and Tracker can't see a ninja actions at all.

I think half of these power roles are pretty weak to give to town in this circumstances.
Hider is relatively weak, BP is weak (especially 1 shot)

Full vigil probably needs a nerf too.

[Firebringer]

Whats an elder btw?

I would take off the defector/traitor btw.
Make this game 5 scum max.

[Firebringer]

Whats a elder?

[Firebringer]

1) I think I'm gonna revise to just red mafia and blue mafia, and get rid of confusing werewolf terms (elder is werewolf kill proof fwiw)

2) 9/2/2 is standard for mini normal multiball, so I'd think 12/3/3 is about right for 18p multiball. Overall scum #s are higher in multiball than single ball since there's cross-killing IIRC. It's also pretty messy to balance a game of this size if scum factions are NOT equal size.

3) If town is overall under-powered (and I'm very curious what balance considerations are for this # of players), why does it make sense to nerf the vig?

4) traitor is non-recruitable, gets end-gamed if his teammates are killed. not sure about hider vs traitor though. If that's messy I can easily sub in a different role (or two, but that would mean >50% of town is PR, which I'd GUESS is too much)

5) I can nerf roleblocker to be odd night role blocker if that would help balance. First consideration IMO is balancing the two scum teams, then after that I'd want to balance town against them. My thought was roleblocker is much less powerful in mutilball compared to single ball but could be wrong.

1) I don't think "werewolf proof" is normal at all.

2)I still don't believe a 9/2/2 is really balanced in all honesty. I think it favors scum to high degree. Ill let someone else chime in here, but I don't think number wise it balances but ill have to do worst case analysis to see with this.

3) I meant to divide town power up more equally than having power up in just a few roles. One role having alot of power can be disastrous if that role died early on. A full vigi can be huge for town in some situations.

4) If you insist on those numbers I think thats an okay traitor.

5) I will have to relook at scum but in terms of multiball the most important thing for scum is survivability.

[Firebringer]

I think you should probably announce that Multiball when this goes into sign ups.

[Firebringer]

Red Mafia
Goon
1-shot bp
Roleblocker

Blue Mafia
Traitor (knows teammates, they don't know him)
1-shot bp
Odd night ninja, even night strongman

Changes id suggest here:
Goon
1 shot Bp

Odd Night Roleblocker

Blue Mafia

1 shot BP Traitor (Knows teammates, they don't know him)

1 shot BP

Even Night Strongman

I think this is more easier to balance against for town.

[Firebringer]

If you also want to keep the full vigi, it should probably be made macho.

[Firebringer]

and I forgot the ninja/strongman. That's not strictly normal either. So you are still at 3 roles. You reworded the defector, but the role is still the same as far as I can tell.

I am pretty confident that versuon of traitor is allowed

[Firebringer]

Changes id suggest here:
Goon
1 shot Bp
Odd Night Roleblocker

Blue Mafia
1 shot BP Traitor (Knows teammates, they don't know him)
1 shot BP
Even Night Strongman

I think this is more easier to balance against for town.

I still think this is a good idea, unless you really want to give scum that much power.

[Firebringer]

Perhaps replace Hider with Follower?
hmmmmm

[Firebringer]

Theres a lot of killing and bulletproof vests to make it hard to see how swingy it is going to be.
I wonder how this will go since essentially 4 people are set to be targets on night 1.

I should do a worst case scenario analysis.

[Firebringer]

I really think 4 kills in one night makes things go too far.
I think you should probably take out the 1 shot strongman big and replace it with something else.

[Firebringer]

The real question is how realistic 4 kills per night would be, given:
1) A doctor
2) Four 1-shot BPs
3) Likely kill overlapping

I might mull over swapping out the 1-shot strongman vig, but IMO that's a role that likely holsters early on until there's a clear and obvious target. And obviously vig or strongman vig could die early.

I mean unrealistic, probably but still is a lot of possible deaths.
I would say never count out the unexpected.

Things in games never seem to go how you want or vision them to go.

I don't know what you would swap the 1 shot strongman out for, but I definitely think theres too much potential killing even though it is massively curved with other roles. Not so sure what to do there, don't think the answer is to add more protection. Maybe delay the 1 shot strongman? Make it a night 2 action?

[Firebringer]

I have never heard of a modifier for "not night 1" to be honest. I don't know if that will fly a normal modifier? If we can allow that, I do suggest since I think that will reduce the swing in the game.

What are your thoughts about changing Hider to Follower?

[Firebringer]

I think thats fine.
I think that would be a decent balanced setup.
Mykonian any additional thoughts on the roles?

@Mhsmith you should probably make your openning posts.

[Firebringer]

I think it looks fine as is.
Still a lot of deaths for first few days assuming vigi and both scum teams are alive.

[Firebringer]

So that would give us:

Red Mafia
Goon
Goon
Odd night Roleblocker

Blue Mafia
1-shot bp Traitor (knows teammates, they don't know him - can't be recruited, endgamed if/when teammates die)
Goon
Odd night ninja / Even night strongman

Town (13 total)
Vig
1-shot novice strongman vig
Doc (blocks one bullet ONLY per night)
Tracker
Innocent Child
1-shot bp
7 vts

I suspect it's a touch town-sided, but I don't really have an issue with it, since there's going to be tremendous swing given the full vig, and that doctor/tracker could easily do nothing or be counter-productive.

Bumping.
I think only thing I don't like about this is a full vig.
But everything else looks fine.

It is a bit townsided but considering two scum teams, that is definitely not a bad thing.

I approve this right now. Let me know any changes.

[Firebringer]

Role cards look good.
nitpicking but the 1 shot strong man doesn't say in his abilities that he is one shot, even though the name of role is "one shot strongman"

[Firebringer]

ha, i missed that.
well played

[Firebringer]

I can back up or co mod for you

[Firebringer]

i think this is all approved, ill message nexus.