STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER


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Post Post #11525 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:17 pm

Post by mastin2 »

In post 11512, Reasonably Rational wrote:It turns out our concerns were just paranoia, but they were absolutely justified.
The problem is, you've used this excuse the whole fucking game.

"Our concerns turned out to be nothing, but trust us they were justified."

Literally every time you've been proven wrong, you've clung to that defense.

And after a certain number of times, all I can really say is bullshit. The player who has most shown inconsistencies this game right now is
you
. You're not acting like the Reasonably Rational as town that I know VERY well by this point. There's holes in your logic which for such a thorough, detailed player should simply not exist.

I know you have a hydra PT. And I know you have HUNDREDS of messages over some messaging program in which you bounce things off back and forth. You are the poster child for a meticulous, thorough hydra.

And yet you are missing simple details that nobody should be missing, YET ALONE, you of ALL people.

Your stance on third parties has been inconsistent the whole game, too. Especially on a meta level, because I know at least one head has a benevolent view of third parties, and the other head I believe holds that third parties should be EXPLOITED for as long as humanly possible--a view calling for the vig of farside was in flagrant violation of, among other such times.

Your game is DEFINED by rationality. By being reasonable. By logic. By facts.
NOT by paranoia.

Your game is not reliant on "what if".
Your game is reliant on certainties.

And you threw away a CERTAIN VICTORY.
On a "what if".
Hiding behind paranoia.

Reasonably Rational is NEVER paranoid as town. EVER. When RR has reason to doubt something, then they will doubt it...and reconsider it. Reevaluate it. Put pages upon pages of thought and discussion in their private chat into figuring that thing out. And then they will come to a new conclusion, one which is what they have determined to be the most likely case. You keep each other in check. When one head gets paranoid, especially thanks to emotions, the other reels them in and keeps them sane.

Yet here, you have displayed a focus on eliminating everything EXCEPT scum. Your plans have thrown out logic. They have been full of holes. They have left gaps where scum would be able to slide in. All because of a focus on possibilities, rather than probabilities. And while, sure. It is true. RR likes to create a gamestate where there are as few variables as possible. It's true RR likes to eliminate as many scenarios as possible. It's true you do those things alignment regardless.

The simple fact is your actions in this game have CREATED extra variables. They have CREATED scenarios. They have done the OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING. What do you have to say for that?

"Scum mastermind"? Nobody left except you who'd play like that.
"Town was being moronic"? That doesn't explain how scum have been countering literally every move you put forward with an appropriate response which hurt the town.

The simple fact is, you are playing to an agenda which has done NOTHING but further the scum wincon.

And I refuse to believe this is the Reasonably Rational I know as town.
What I need for you to do now, Mastin, is put on your mod hat. Look at the game. Look at what we know, the flips we've seen. Take in the totality of the game state, and the course of action parts of the setup and the flavor of the game essentially GUARANTEED town would take. Do that, and answer the question: Why would we EXPECT Farside to be a threat?
Yeah I've done this already.

Farside is a threat because SHE COULD NOT BE KILLED BY SCUM.
With one scum alive.
Do the fucking math.
She was also confirmed as town.
Confirmed. town. which. scum. couldn't. kill.
And nigh-impossible to mislynch especially with her abilities. (Not to mention town support.)

And you have the
audacity
to ask how she'd be a threat?

It literally writes itself!

Counter-question: why DIDN'T you recognize she was a threat to the scum?
Why didn't you recognize her value, her asset, to the town?
Why didn't you continue to exploit her when regardless of whether she was third party or town she still had value to add to the town?

The simple fact is: scum needed farside gone.
And the player who advocated farside be removed--in MORE ways than one--was you. Trying to get her to get the third party wincon. (Which, by the way, is an inconsistency with "trying to prevent a third party win that endgames town", because GIVING HER THAT WIN risked DOING EXACTLY THAT.) Trying to get Fuzzy shooting her.

There are literally hundreds of reasons why you are scum here.
It's not even funny. Just frustrating that people aren't already lynching you and that I'm going to have to fight tooth and nail to push through something which shouldn't need explanation.

Anyone who knows how you play knows that your actions are coming from scum.
And the amount of effort I have to show that to those who don't is ridiculous.

So my GOD
Magna, grapes
, please just trust me here and help me. I'm right. RR is caught by their own style. By their own tendencies. By their own habits. Look at what Reasonably Rational has pushed. Pushed now. Pushed in the past. Pushed the whole fucking game. It's consistently served a scum agenda since day one. There's been some facade of a town game, a mimicry of it, a cheap imitation of it, yet no gamesolving. No attempt to lock the game down. Nothing to flush the scum out. Just lynching one town after another and trying to remove more through cheap tricks which leave as few as possible confirmed.

It's not Almost50. It's not Fuzzy. It's just...Reasonably Rational.
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Post Post #11526 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:23 pm

Post by mastin2 »

In post 11514, Randomnamechange wrote:RR seemed REALLY town in our PT.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
I swear to the everloving gods if I have to deal with this shit one more time...

No.


Just, no.

They seem town in the PT? Good for them. Why haven't they shown it in here? It's because they're manipulating you. If your defense of someone boils down to PT talk, you should throw it out ESPECIALLY if it's a player who fucking specializes in manipulating PTs. Drixx from SMITE mafia called. He wants to remind you how he's a FUCKING PROFESSIONAL at it. Especially when there's no longer anybody competent enough to point out contradictions between the PT and the thread left.

I promise you.

PROMISE. YOU.

That Reasonably Rational is the last scumfuck here.
His main worry seemed to be from Far leaving the game once their win con was achieved and screwing with numbers (this was prior to some BS from far which changed the situation).
Okay. So they were worried farside leaving the game would be a bad thing.
So why the FUCK were they trying to make her do exactly that?
Why the fuck were they trying to force her out of the game by achieving her 3p win, when her leaving the game with a 3p win was their main worry?

Again.

This is the logical inconsistency you fucking catch Reasonably Rational on.

Swear to god.
This is Reasonably Rational as scum.
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Post Post #11527 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:32 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

We lynch either RR / Grapes today
if its not game
I shoot RR/ Grapes tonight ( whatever is alive)
That's should be game.......
if not we lynch Almost tomorrow
that's should be game
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Post Post #11528 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:38 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

Vote RR


Honestly it doesn't matter who we lynch the plan remains the same
The last scum is between RR Almost and Grapes

we lynch them and we win
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Post Post #11529 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:57 pm

Post by Almost50 »

First things first: Varsoon PM'd me with the result of "No Action Submitted".

Now I do have a feeling I was redirected, because this result in particular did not explicitly mention my target's name. I had previously been told McMenno/Creature results with their names intact within he investigation result PM.

However, I have no proof of such redirection other than that.

@Mastina:

RR is NOT the only one responsible for the NK on farside. I am as guilty as they are, if that's to be considered a guilt at all. I pleaded for Fuzzy and explained why too.

Now why would Scum!RR prevent the NK on farside earlier is also a question I have to propose. The faster they got rid of Townies the closer they got to their win, so why prevent such a kill on her earlier?

Let me try again: With farside dead on N7 (say) and Fuzzy shooting me last night, and Scum!RR also shooting Fuzzy on the same night it would have been only 6 players alive, and we are assuming only one scum remaining (Army?) so I should think entering the day against 5 enemy players is so much better than entering bthe day against 7.

Furthermore, they could've convinced Fuzzy to shoot grapes last night instead of me (with farside already gone on N7), and with grapes gunned down by Fuzzy, Fuzzy NK'd by RR I'd be the prime lynch target with MoI's attitude and my supposed target dying.

So, I die by lynch today and they shoot Shiro tonight, thus entering tomorrow against you and the two Gems. It would still be tough as hell, but it STILL would have been easier than the current situation.

Either that or they would not have had TFL allying with me to begin with, and would have not shot someone themselves either, thus keeping myself, TFL, farside AND rapes as possible mislynches.

In sum, I don't see the logic behind Scum!RR preventing a vig shot on farside earlier, only to come and push for it last night.

And besides; nobody provided an answer nor even seems to have addressed the issue of TWIE's event showing/claiming Sky tried to shoot grapes and TWIE telling us this was a corrected-to-be-true result. I don't see why SCUM would correct a SCUM action to prove their target to be TOWN. The only way I see it is they decided to bus Sky to falsely confirm grapes as SCUM, but then Sky died earlier than she was supposed to. What -on Earth- was TWIE thinking when/if he confirmed his own scum buddy took a shot at grapes (thus proving Sky to be a killer)?? Explain THAT please.

Also, to save you the trouble; you have enough voted to Lynch RR w/o me. There are currently 8 players alive, thus 5 for the lynch, so you need to convince 2 of Shiro, TFL & grapes to join you and the 2 Gems, and if the game ends then I will change my avatar to a donkey instead. If it doesn't then you know you need to take a step back and try to take a look from a different angle. Either there are TWO scum still alive, or RR is a Town slot is what I'm saying.

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Post Post #11530 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:02 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11520, grapes wrote:Almost, why are you voting me?
because I think you're the last scum IF there's only one left alive.

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Post Post #11531 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:13 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

We are lynching RR today and Grapes is eating lead tonight........
That's the plan

there is no reason not to go with this plan unless you think I am scum.........
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Post Post #11532 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:16 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Mastin. You realize that if we were scum we had access to the same empowered shot that Fuzzy had access to, right? So why would we need Fuzzy at all? The rest of everything you're wall posting falls apart at that point.

Since you want to be stubborn, and since you state you believe only one scum remains, I'll ask you plainly: what in this game setup that you have seen so far makes it balanced? How do the scum handle the very large amount of slots that will never be lynched going by the assumptions we have used this game? Look at the scum power level, including the three kills they got by event. Now look at how many kills were stopped by town or gem powers/events. Now count up the slots which would never be lynched under any circumstance.

Every assumption you're making rests on a false foundation. You can walk us all the way up to the gibbet and put the rope on and pull the lever and when we flip town, all you'll have accomplished is completely wasting a day and pushing us a step closer to losing what
should be
a slam dunk.

Then there's a few other facts to consider, just as it relates to us:

1.) Our initial concern about Farside was that she would take her win on M/LYLO and hand scum a win. We decided then to try and give her that claimed win as fast as possible so that she couldn't do that (if telling the truth) or she would reveal it to be a lie (if she refused). She refused to take the win (which, if you do the math, she could have had yesterday, exactly as we said), and started throwing outright lies into her posts. That didn't jive with her claims, and pushed us into believing she was the answer to the balance issue. So there's no contradiction here Mastin. If you had been, you know,
playing the game
, like the rest of us, you would have seen that happen. Hell, if you had even properly read the thread, you would have seen it.

2.) The only reason that the game isn't over with a scum win right now is because we're not scum. The list of things scum walked into that we knew about is so long that positing a scum!us requires you to be claiming that we deliberately played against wincon numerous times. But we're not scum, and we were smart enough to work with only confirmed people and relay what we knew and leverage it, and the gems were also smart enough to make good moves that took advantage of the scum team's ignorance. So your attack about talking in PTs ... kinda falls flat.


So now we're left with a situation you need to re-evaluate seriously. We're town, and we're obviously town. I'm not the setup/mod genius you are, but I know enough to know that the amount of slots who could never be mislynched in this game is too high for there to be only one scum left and that's the only threat. Either there's extra scum with power we haven't seen yet, or there's another explanation. We thought Farside could be that other explanation and were wrong. After a long game of being right repeatedly, it would be cool if you didn't crucify us for being wrong once and instead actually pay fucking attention here.

Slots that would never be mislynched under the assumptions we've all made about this game, barring some kind of awful play: You, Yume, Gems (MoI, KC, Xykfu, Random, ?), Titus, a potential power copy of Titus as a 2nd IC - There's a couple more slots conditionally speaking. Kraska could have played more actively and obvtowned it up, for example, but we think that was intentional lurking to try and make it to endgame due to the ability to pop IC at LYLO thing. In any case, it's 8-10 slots in a 25 person game.

So the ball is in your court here. You can go back and review the game and realize that we have indeed been gamesolving all game long and that we did indeed have good reason to believe Farside was an extreme threat after she refused to take her claimed win con when we were tentatively viewing her as a lesser threat. You can realize that all the slots that scum could never get mislynched doesn't line up at all with the observed power level of everything we've seen. If you get that far, maybe you can help us figure this out before we see a game over and we lose post, because right now you're going to drive all of us off a cliff into a loss, and frankly we've worked way too hard for that.

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Post Post #11533 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by grapes »

I'm caught up now. is a good post. mastin is making very good arguments as well but in particular is a must read.

Last day was pretty confusing. Almost went literally insane, I told fuzzy to vig rr and he didn't listen but to be fair I kinda thought almost was scummy for pushing fuzzy as sk (or whatever he was on about) which was forgivable if you were expecting a kill like I said but the extent he went with it was like... calm down man.

Didn't even know almost had an investigation ability?

@Almost
- What kind of results do you get and are they even useful at all?

Not quite sure how he wouldn't have gotten a result either.
Options here are he's lying (probably not) or he was roleblocked or he just hasn't heard back from varsoon yet.


Also got around to looking at some votecounts and we've all been missing something glaringly obvious.
Spoiler:
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.01


Reasonably Rational (2):
grapes, Firebringer
Creature (2):
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Xkfyu

Not Voting (21):
Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Yume, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, mastin2, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, McMenno, Seraphim, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Start out with a town-driven wagon on RR. This isn't rvs because fire and I both had scumreads on RR based on pregame content, my case was made later.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.02


Reasonably Rational (3):
grapes, Firebringer, McMenno
Creature (2):
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Xkfyu
Not Chara (2):
mastin2, Yume
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
Farside22
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman
McMenno (1):
CooLDoG

Not Voting (15):
Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, Seraphim, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
menno hops on, rr is still town driven. And a few mislead counterwagons.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.05


Not Chara (5):
mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50, grapes
Reasonably Rational (3):
Firebringer, McMenno, DrippingGoofball
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
SirCakez
SirCakez (2):
Creature, Farside22
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
McMenno (1):
CooLDoG
SnarkySnowman (1):

Xkfyu (1):
Seraphim
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman
grapes (1):
Not Chara

Not Voting (9):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
This about where chara and I start an epic Tvt. Drippinggoofball sheeps my case and at this point it's still clean because she can only guess who her buds are.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.07


McMenno (5):
CooLDoG, Firebringer, SirCakez, Seraphim, Almost50
Not Chara (4):
grapes, Skybird, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi
Reasonably Rational (3):
McMenno, DrippingGoofball, Creature
SirCakez (2):
Not Chara, mastin2
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (9):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, Farside22

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Two hefty-sized scum-sheeped counter-wagons on Earth-aligned players. Creature joins the rr wagon here still town-driven.
InVarsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.09


Not Chara (6):
grapes, Skybird, Yume, Almost50, Kraskaeaque
Reasonably Rational (4):
McMenno, DrippingGoofball, mastin2, Farside22
McMenno (3):
CooLDoG, SirCakez, Seraphim
Klingoncelt (2):
Firebringer, Obi-Wan Kenobi
Almost50 (2):
Shiro, Creature
SirCakez (1):
Not Chara
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
mastin and farside join. No scum interest at all so far.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.12


SirCakez (7):
Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, Yume, grapes, Shiro
Shiro (4):
Farside22, Skybird, Almost50
Skybird (2):
killthestory, Creature
McMenno (2):
CooLDoG, Seraphim
Not Chara (1):
Kraskaeaque
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
SirCakez
Klingoncelt (1)
Firebringer
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Fizzles out a few votecounts until here where it straight up disappears.

Now what's interesting about that isn't what you probably think, like that normally would lend some credence to scum aborting a bus but that falls apart when you read the tl;dr which is ...

All the traction on rr looks like this in total (from least to most opportunistic);
{grapes, firebringer, Mcmenno, DrippingGoofball, Creature, mastin2, farside22}
All Town.

Fucking spooky. Especially when you consider nobody really argued against the wagon except snarkysnowman might've had a tr there just off the top of my head but other than that the disappearance was town just moving onto lynch more obvious scum in sircakes.

The constituencies are remarkably similar besides shiro (who's now confirmed-town), Not chara (who had a scumread on RR) and Obi-wan (who would later become titus, someone that rr went out of their way to pocket)

It's the wagon that got away, and it makes perfect sense to have 2 heavily town-driven wagons on scum day one where town was driving the thread in absolution.

Let's check out Day 2 now.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 2.03


Reasonably Rational (6):
grapes, DrippingGoofball, McMenno, Yume, mastin2, Skybird
Shiro (2):
Creature, Farside22
Farside22 (2):
randomidget, Obi-Wan Kenobi
DrippingGoofball (1):
Klingoncelt
Twin Wings (1):
Kraskaeaque

Not Voting (11):
Twin Wings, Xkfyu, Almost50, Shiro, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Not Chara, killthestory, TheFuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, TheWayItEnds

With 23 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Skybird.

What's interesting about skybird here?
It's the bus vote.
In post 3375, Skybird wrote:I think Mastin is worth sheeping.

VOTE: RR
It's the kinda vote you make when you're like "oh shit I totally ignored my buddy getting runup day 1 I need to make up for it now oh why oh why didn't all this interest go away!
In post 3965, Skybird wrote:OK, caught up a little more this morning but still on page 155.

I'm not seeing RR as scum so much. I originally sheeped Mastin because of Cakez, and she has posted that she doesn't want people doing that. My thoughts on it are that I do see some of the points people are making against them, but I also understand not addressing things in absolutes right now because the game is still pretty young. (Sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm going be late for work if I don't get out of here. I'll answer questions when I get home.)

UNVOTE: RR
And then to the part where she's like "oh awesome it's not gonna get anymore steam, let me just help kill the traction after scouting out the wagon for 600 posts.

I know right. Seems pretty obvious looking at it now.

RR hasn't scumhunted at all this game. (inb4 that's just our meta or we totally have! no, death tunneling farside and isn't what I would pass as gamesolving).

Kinda also don't really think almost is scum. Comparatively he thinks I could be scum here, and while as wrong (and flattering) as that is, it's better than the hydra who hasn't ever given a read on me this game unless it's to omgus. What's more, his logic that rr wouldn't be scum in a position to not ever win is flawed because this town kicks ass.



pedit: Almost the thing with TWIE confirming skybird shot me is wine from everyone else's perspective, nothing more and nothing less I haven't even acknowledged it because it means literally nothing and I'm not gonna flaunt about how I make perfect sense as the N1 kill because that's arrogant and there isn't really a need to.

Furthermore there's a lot to gain for RR advocating and then also
delaying
the farside vig. She wasn't in the lynchpool, it's a win for them as scum to have her die by town hands at any point.
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Post Post #11534 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:18 pm

Post by grapes »

VOTE: RR
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Post Post #11535 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:23 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Except we gave reads and thoughts for how to proceed if we died every single day, and we even told Fuzzy to shoot us last night if he had any doubts, and then gave thoughts on how to proceed when he saw our flip.

But you know ... buzzwords are good, right? (Especially when someone just pointed out that you are only considered clear because of something actual known scum said and did).

LOL.

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Post Post #11536 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:27 pm

Post by grapes »

In post 11531, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:We are lynching RR today and Grapes is eating lead tonight........
That's the plan

there is no reason not to go with this plan unless you think I am scum.........
Who are you shooting if RR flips scum?
That's the interesting question.
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Post Post #11537 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:28 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11527, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:We lynch either RR / Grapes today
if its not game
I shoot RR/ Grapes tonight ( whatever is alive)
That's should be game.......
if not we lynch Almost tomorrow
that's should be game
Also fine by me, and I will submit YOU as my ally tonight to make sure you do have a shot (unless one of the 3 conf!Town decides they want to have you as their ally for the same reason).

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Post Post #11538 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:35 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 11533, grapes wrote:I'm caught up now. is a good post. mastin is making very good arguments as well but in particular is a must read.

Last day was pretty confusing. Almost went literally insane, I told fuzzy to vig rr and he didn't listen but to be fair I kinda thought almost was scummy for pushing fuzzy as sk (or whatever he was on about) which was forgivable if you were expecting a kill like I said but the extent he went with it was like... calm down man.

Didn't even know almost had an investigation ability?

@Almost
- What kind of results do you get and are they even useful at all?

Not quite sure how he wouldn't have gotten a result either.
Options here are he's lying (probably not) or he was roleblocked or he just hasn't heard back from varsoon yet.


Also got around to looking at some votecounts and we've all been missing something glaringly obvious.
Spoiler:
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.01


Reasonably Rational (2):
grapes, Firebringer
Creature (2):
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Xkfyu

Not Voting (21):
Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Yume, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, mastin2, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, McMenno, Seraphim, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Start out with a town-driven wagon on RR. This isn't rvs because fire and I both had scumreads on RR based on pregame content, my case was made later.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.02


Reasonably Rational (3):
grapes, Firebringer, McMenno
Creature (2):
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Xkfyu
Not Chara (2):
mastin2, Yume
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
Farside22
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman
McMenno (1):
CooLDoG

Not Voting (15):
Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, Seraphim, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
menno hops on, rr is still town driven. And a few mislead counterwagons.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.05


Not Chara (5):
mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50, grapes
Reasonably Rational (3):
Firebringer, McMenno, DrippingGoofball
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
SirCakez
SirCakez (2):
Creature, Farside22
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
McMenno (1):
CooLDoG
SnarkySnowman (1):

Xkfyu (1):
Seraphim
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman
grapes (1):
Not Chara

Not Voting (9):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
This about where chara and I start an epic Tvt. Drippinggoofball sheeps my case and at this point it's still clean because she can only guess who her buds are.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.07


McMenno (5):
CooLDoG, Firebringer, SirCakez, Seraphim, Almost50
Not Chara (4):
grapes, Skybird, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi
Reasonably Rational (3):
McMenno, DrippingGoofball, Creature
SirCakez (2):
Not Chara, mastin2
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (9):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, Farside22

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Two hefty-sized scum-sheeped counter-wagons on Earth-aligned players. Creature joins the rr wagon here still town-driven.
InVarsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.09


Not Chara (6):
grapes, Skybird, Yume, Almost50, Kraskaeaque
Reasonably Rational (4):
McMenno, DrippingGoofball, mastin2, Farside22
McMenno (3):
CooLDoG, SirCakez, Seraphim
Klingoncelt (2):
Firebringer, Obi-Wan Kenobi
Almost50 (2):
Shiro, Creature
SirCakez (1):
Not Chara
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
mastin and farside join. No scum interest at all so far.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 1.12


SirCakez (7):
Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, Yume, grapes, Shiro
Shiro (4):
Farside22, Skybird, Almost50
Skybird (2):
killthestory, Creature
McMenno (2):
CooLDoG, Seraphim
Not Chara (1):
Kraskaeaque
Creature (1):
Xkfyu
Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):
SirCakez
Klingoncelt (1)
Firebringer
Farside22 (1):
SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):
Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Fizzles out a few votecounts until here where it straight up disappears.

Now what's interesting about that isn't what you probably think, like that normally would lend some credence to scum aborting a bus but that falls apart when you read the tl;dr which is ...

All the traction on rr looks like this in total (from least to most opportunistic);
{grapes, firebringer, Mcmenno, DrippingGoofball, Creature, mastin2, farside22}
All Town.

Fucking spooky. Especially when you consider nobody really argued against the wagon except snarkysnowman might've had a tr there just off the top of my head but other than that the disappearance was town just moving onto lynch more obvious scum in sircakes.

The constituencies are remarkably similar besides shiro (who's now confirmed-town), Not chara (who had a scumread on RR) and Obi-wan (who would later become titus, someone that rr went out of their way to pocket)

It's the wagon that got away, and it makes perfect sense to have 2 heavily town-driven wagons on scum day one where town was driving the thread in absolution.

Let's check out Day 2 now.
Varsoon wrote:
VOTECOUNT 2.03


Reasonably Rational (6):
grapes, DrippingGoofball, McMenno, Yume, mastin2, Skybird
Shiro (2):
Creature, Farside22
Farside22 (2):
randomidget, Obi-Wan Kenobi
DrippingGoofball (1):
Klingoncelt
Twin Wings (1):
Kraskaeaque

Not Voting (11):
Twin Wings, Xkfyu, Almost50, Shiro, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Not Chara, killthestory, TheFuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, TheWayItEnds

With 23 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Skybird.

What's interesting about skybird here?
It's the bus vote.
In post 3375, Skybird wrote:I think Mastin is worth sheeping.

VOTE: RR
It's the kinda vote you make when you're like "oh shit I totally ignored my buddy getting runup day 1 I need to make up for it now oh why oh why didn't all this interest go away!
In post 3965, Skybird wrote:OK, caught up a little more this morning but still on page 155.

I'm not seeing RR as scum so much. I originally sheeped Mastin because of Cakez, and she has posted that she doesn't want people doing that. My thoughts on it are that I do see some of the points people are making against them, but I also understand not addressing things in absolutes right now because the game is still pretty young. (Sorry if I'm not being clear, I'm going be late for work if I don't get out of here. I'll answer questions when I get home.)

UNVOTE: RR
And then to the part where she's like "oh awesome it's not gonna get anymore steam, let me just help kill the traction after scouting out the wagon for 600 posts.

I know right. Seems pretty obvious looking at it now.

RR hasn't scumhunted at all this game. (inb4 that's just our meta or we totally have! no, death tunneling farside and isn't what I would pass as gamesolving).

Kinda also don't really think almost is scum. Comparatively he thinks I could be scum here, and while as wrong (and flattering) as that is, it's better than the hydra who hasn't ever given a read on me this game unless it's to omgus. What's more, his logic that rr wouldn't be scum in a position to not ever win is flawed because this town kicks ass.



pedit: Almost the thing with TWIE confirming skybird shot me is wine from everyone else's perspective, nothing more and nothing less I haven't even acknowledged it because it means literally nothing and I'm not gonna flaunt about how I make perfect sense as the N1 kill because that's arrogant and there isn't really a need to.

Furthermore there's a lot to gain for RR advocating and then also
delaying
the farside vig. She wasn't in the lynchpool, it's a win for them as scum to have her die by town hands at any point.
In post 11534, grapes wrote:VOTE: RR
Perfect example of scum sitting back and waiting for the tide to turn in their favor before magically showing up with a long post and lots of research to push their mislynch, just at the right time. Please don't be suckered by this obvious scumplay by Grapes.

Like for real. Lynch this scummy shit on the spot. Obviously pre-prepared post coming in just at the right time to push a mislynch and re-direct any suspicion. Scum play 101 by someone who has spent the whole game doing the same kind of thing.

VOTE: Grapes

Thanks for scumclaiming Grapes.

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Post Post #11539 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:43 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11536, grapes wrote:Who are you shooting if RR flips scum?
That's the interesting question.
That's interesting indeed.. how certain you are that the game has TWO scum left alive at this point. (Otherwise; if RR flips scum the game ends. Right??)

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Post Post #11540 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:49 pm

Post by grapes »

Hey almost, how about you respond to my catch up post.

I'm firmly in the 1 threat to earth left club. I just think it would be interesting if the game didn't end after we removed all of them, that's all. : p
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Post Post #11541 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:49 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 11539, Almost50 wrote:
In post 11536, grapes wrote:Who are you shooting if RR flips scum?
That's the interesting question.
That's interesting indeed.. how certain you are that the game has TWO scum left alive at this point. (Otherwise; if RR flips scum the game ends. Right??)
Interesting doesn't even begin to describe it. It's a scum slip. As far as I'm aware,
we
are the only people in the game who have even seriously considered that there might be more than 1 scum left, and I only just posted pointing that out to Mastin and urging her to consider the facts a short time ago. Grapes swooped in with an obviously prepared post to put the 3rd vote on us (and the vote is naked as a 2nd post to distract from the 1st post being pre-prepared), but then there's #11536 where Grapes has as an implicit assumption in the post that two scum remain.

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Post Post #11542 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:50 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 11540, grapes wrote:Hey almost, how about you respond to my catch up post.

I'm firmly in the 1 threat to earth left club. I just think it would be interesting if the game didn't end after we removed all of them, that's all. : p
Nice attempt at a save. Giving you genuine props. Devious play from start to finish.

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Post Post #11543 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:52 pm

Post by grapes »

Like fuzzy just based on almost spouting 7 scum paranoia at this point is enough to make him a better vig shot than me.

Kinda comes down to who we think in rr/almost is the bad town and I could quote the post that shows it's an obvious choice, but I'll spare diminishing almost's reputation further.
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Post Post #11544 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:57 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Btw, I need your modding experience on this one: What does an action that CANNOT FAIL exactly mean? It cannot be blocked? It cannot be blocked OR redirected? It works through a JK block?? What??

Cuz if the name of my target wasn't explicitly mentioned in my result it gives me the feeling it's NOT that of my target. Then again, why would scum redirect me to someone who did not take action when they could've stayed put and take no action themselves??

This may not help determine alignments, but it sure doesn't bode well with me.

P-edit:

@grapes:

What's your precise question to me?

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Post Post #11545 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:01 pm

Post by grapes »

I wanna know why you're getting hung up on not getting a result worded to you the same way and are trying to twist that like it means you were redirected and not that it was just worded a different way.

And also what your action does? Now that I'm reading your post it looks like you can tell if someone actioned or not at night.

First; have you asked varsoon about why there was a wording difference.
Then two, you can explain to me where a redirector comes in here, given we haven't really seen evidence of one.
And then third how you being redirected makes you think I'm scum to start with.
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Post Post #11546 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:10 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11545, grapes wrote:I wanna know why you're getting hung up on not getting a result worded to you the same way and are trying to twist that like it means you were redirected and not that it was just worded a different way.

And also what your action does? Now that I'm reading your post it looks like you can tell if someone actioned or not at night.

First; have you asked Varsoon about why there was a wording difference.
Then two, you can explain to me where a redirector comes in here, given we haven't really seen evidence of one.
And then third how you being redirected makes you think I'm scum to start with.
It took Varsoon a whole day to get back to me with a result to begin with, so no I didn't bother asking him what it meant.

However, in my mind when your role is tailored to get results in a certain format then when that format changes it should be a point of concern.

And yes, I can tell if my target took action and whether that action was harmful. On Season Finale it also tells me the exact action and who the target was. That's why I've used it Twice of 3 times on Season Finale. The first one had to be used before the Season Finale though.

Now maybe you can help me understand why TWIE would confirm you got shot at by Sky if that was the case. Care to give that one a try?

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Post Post #11547 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:14 pm

Post by grapes »

I've been obvtown all game. Twie either didn't really think confirming that would mean anything, or thought you all would drown in wine over it. Look what happened.
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Post Post #11548 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:17 pm

Post by grapes »

And there's also the fact that I had no idea chara was a doc.

And; where's the other justification behind what happened to the kill?

You think scum no-kills for no reason?
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Post Post #11549 (ISO) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:18 pm

Post by grapes »

Like I'm being very generous when I say that we should drop speculation of that and just read me by play.

Very, very generous.
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