Interesting. That would mean a different game then.In post 149, Not_Mafia wrote:Nothing should be compulsive
Commonly Asked Questions on Mafia Theory
- LicketyQuickety
-
LicketyQuickety Survivor
- LicketyQuickety
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
- Ircher
-
Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
- Ircher
He / Him / His- What A Grand Idea
- What A Grand Idea
- Posts: 15190
- Joined: November 9, 2015
- Pronoun: He / Him / His
- Location: CST/CDT
- LicketyQuickety
-
LicketyQuickety Survivor
- LicketyQuickety
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
You're missing something tho.. As a hider, if you don't hide, that opens you up to be targeted. I just think that because hider can hide behind Scum and die because of it means it should be compulsive.In post 151, Ircher wrote:I disagree with Not Mafia.
Some roles should be compuslive, specificly, Visitors should be compuksive otherwise players would never use the ability.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- Ircher
-
Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
- Ircher
He / Him / His- What A Grand Idea
- What A Grand Idea
- Posts: 15190
- Joined: November 9, 2015
- Pronoun: He / Him / His
- Location: CST/CDT
- LicketyQuickety
-
LicketyQuickety Survivor
- LicketyQuickety
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
My mistake, sorry.In post 153, Ircher wrote:I said nothing about hider specificly. I just said some roles pught to be compulsive by default.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.- Infinity 324
-
Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
- Infinity 324
they (pl.)- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18337
- Joined: April 7, 2013
- Pronoun: they (pl.)
- Contact:
- drealmerz7
-
drealmerz7 Survivor
- drealmerz7
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 15374
- Joined: February 9, 2016
- Location: earth
- Shadow_step
-
Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Shadow_step
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
What result should a follower get if they target a JK?ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
Normally it's ruled as "protective + intefering". Admittedly, that doesn't leave much guessing as to what the role was.In post 157, Shadow_step wrote:What result should a follower get if they target a JK?
In Normals, a Follower actually sees a "jailkeeping" action being performed; it's a category of its own there. (This might or might not have been intentional, but it certainly helps to resolve arguments.)scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Shadow_step
-
Shadow_step Mafia Scum
- Shadow_step
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2956
- Joined: May 12, 2016
- Location: 221B, Baker Street
Thanks. In non normals, MOD discretion can be used right?ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
Indeed, in queues other than Normal, Open, and Newbie (and there are no Followers in Newbie games at the moment), it would be up to the mod as to exactly how they wanted their Followers to work. (Although returning something very out of place, like "communicative", would likely be treated as bastard.)scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town-
-
dw_ Watcher
- Watcher
- Watcher
- Posts: 0
- Joined: November 7, 2016
Is the mafia factional kill compulsive?
I help run some games on another website. Typically we've made it non-compulsive but we've run into issues with a 4-player MyLo where town's best play is to no lynch to coerce the mafia into killing at night, and the mafia's best play is not to kill to coerce town into lynching from the four living players resulting in the game stalling.
I had a brief search but could find no documentation on the subject.
Apologies if this is not the correct place to ask this.- Cheery Dog
-
Cheery Dog Kayak
- Cheery Dog
- Kayak
- Kayak
- Posts: 8036
- Joined: June 30, 2012
- Location: OMG BALL!
The factional kill is not compulsive, unless it's something that is demanded by the setup in particular.
Generally a stalled game like that will either have a 'Happily Ever After' or a 'Rocks Fall; Everybody Dies' ending to it, because nobody is wanting to make that move after a few phases.
One of the factions will either decide to risk it for the win, or they'll all settle for the draw/lose.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
Most non-role-madness setups benefit from a compulsive Mafia kill (nearly all the situations in which the Mafia would choose to no-kill imply that something is broken in either the current state of the setup or in the win conditions; the 3:1 standoff is a common example). However, making the kill compulsive is not standard.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Radical Rat
-
Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All Trades
- Radical Rat
They/Them- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6463
- Joined: November 22, 2015
- Pronoun: They/Them
- Location: Space Colony ARK
I personally hate compulsiveness as an actual mechanic, as I feel it limits the strategies that can be used by scum factions and/or PRs, particularly in closed games.
Example being Mafia choosing not to kill, then using a Roleblock fakeclaim to push a lynch on a player who was previously a universal townread.
Or an SK who refrains from killing to hide the existence of an SK until ready to make their move.
Or on the Town side, a bus driver who chooses not to bus to allow other PRs to use their roles confidently.
Modifiers should only affect the actual ability/power of the role, not the player's agency.- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
- drealmerz7
-
drealmerz7 Survivor
- drealmerz7
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 15374
- Joined: February 9, 2016
- Location: earth
This is a strategic choice AND I don't see it as "wasting town's time" at all AND no NK is good for town.In post 165, callforjudgement wrote:The problem is Mafia choosing not to kill in situations where they can't reasonably fake anything other than a no-kill, just to waste the town's time. That happens more often than it should.balance among all things- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
No nightkill is not good for town in 3:1. Town will nearly always just no-lynch in response (and may well have no-lynched into the situation in the first place). So far, in every case I've personally seen, the scum eventually relented first, but I'm aware that other people have run into problems where this lead to a standoff that eventually had to be resolved by moderator intervention.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Fresh
-
Fresh Mafia Scum
- Fresh
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: September 12, 2014
I'd like to ask a question for anyone willing to answer.
Say I choose target for motion detector. That target has an action but was roleblocked. Would the motion detector see that the target performed an action AND had an action performed on the target? Or just the second one since the first one was technically blocked?
Thanks in advance for anyone willing to clear up my confusion.- vonflare
-
vonflare doot
- vonflare
- doot
- doot
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: January 1, 2014
- Location: Blue Gatorade Factory
you would only see the roleblock. Similarly to if you were a tracker, you would see them going nowhere, because the roleblock prevents the action from even starting.THIS POST IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
A motion detector is a binary role, so they just see "there was motion".
If you're using a role that's capable of detecting more information, such as a Tracker, the exact resolution isn't standardised as far as I know; some mods allow blocked actions to nonetheless be tracked, some mods don't. This doesn't seem to be standardised even in Normals (where it should be standardised). I'm going to ask the NRG for a ruling, because this is a clear omission in the current rules.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- mastina
-
mastina She/HerFalse Prophet
- mastina
She/Her- False Prophet
- False Prophet
- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
- Contact:
My standardization is dependent on the wording of the roleblock action.In post 170, callforjudgement wrote:If you're using a role that's capable of detecting more information, such as a Tracker, the exact resolution isn't standardised as far as I know; some mods allow blocked actions to nonetheless be tracked, some mods don't. This doesn't seem to be standardised even in Normals (where it should be standardised). I'm going to ask the NRG for a ruling, because this is a clear omission in the current rules.
If a roleblocker's role PM specifies "causes the action to fail", the player actioning will be seen visiting, because their actionhappens, it just has its effect fail.
If a roleblocker's role PM specifies "prevents the action", the player actioning will not be seen visiting, because their action is prevented from having happened in the first place.
This is why I am so adamant of moderators checking the exact wording of their role PMs. This is not semantics; there are actual distinct differences in effects from word choice.- profii
-
profii Jack of All Trades
- profii
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6791
- Joined: December 19, 2017
I just finished a game and wanted to ask a question following...
I was scum and one of my mates had the watcher PR
When we were deciding what to do, it seemed obvious that a successful Watcher result on town would be difficult to come by as the odds are very much against you - so - we decided to look at one of our own scum players so we knew if there was any possibility one of us had been copped (or any other PR etc) - this made fake claiming a bunch easier
Following the conclusion of the game we mentioned this and the town players were surprised and said clever ploy
Have we found a loophole or is this a fairly acceptable use of the power?
By team-watching I think we turned a potentially unlikely result into an always-useful result because by using watcher to “play defence” even a no result is really useful to scum
I know there are other risks such as no result due to role block but overall I think we created more power than anticipated - profii
- mastina
- callforjudgement
- vonflare
- Fresh
- callforjudgement
- drealmerz7
- callforjudgement
- Radical Rat
- callforjudgement
- Cheery Dog
- callforjudgement
- Shadow_step
- callforjudgement
- Shadow_step
- drealmerz7
- Infinity 324
- LicketyQuickety
- Ircher
- LicketyQuickety
- Ircher
- LicketyQuickety