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Post Post #53 (isolation #0) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:32 am

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In post 8, Naomi-Tan wrote:Normally I do this a little later but im up and wanna talk and like keeping this at my second ISO post so. For those who know this post feel free to skip it yadda yadda.
Hi, I'm Naomi I have kinda a strange play style. Firstly Rather than calling people town or Scum I call them Green or Red This is because Its just a nicer thing to call people. I dislike calling people scum as its kinda mean so I switched to the color thing and it appears to have caught on rather well in other games I've been in. Thats not so major. but Its a good thing to note.

Okay so onto the bulk of stuff. My playstyle Is kinda weird. I don't like dying as either alignment and try to stay alive. this means that sometimes I do actions to just look more green and sometimes and Im suspectable to peer pressure. To midigate this I tend to play entirely openly and honestly examining things and doing what I can to contribute to town. But things like Lamist actions are things I tend to do as both alignments. If anyone wants to read my town meta feel free to explore my wiki page (ordered chronologically with my most recent games at the bottom of either list) But this is a quick overview to protect my butt from future Red efforts (as they can push me on; Look there doing that thing thats normally red but isn't for them) and so Greens don't push me for being me. I also am probably forgetting somethings. As i'm sleepy
One question --- Does making this post actually help you in any way?
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Post Post #54 (isolation #1) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:34 am

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In post 12, -Grey- wrote:
In post 8, Naomi-Tan wrote:Normally I do this a little later but im up and wanna talk and like keeping this at my second ISO post so. For those who know this post feel free to skip it yadda yadda.
Hi, I'm Naomi I have kinda a strange play style. Firstly Rather than calling people town or Scum I call them Green or Red This is because Its just a nicer thing to call people. I dislike calling people scum as its kinda mean so I switched to the color thing and it appears to have caught on rather well in other games I've been in. Thats not so major. but Its a good thing to note.

Okay so onto the bulk of stuff. My playstyle Is kinda weird. I don't like dying as either alignment and try to stay alive. this means that sometimes I do actions to just look more green and sometimes and Im suspectable to peer pressure. To midigate this I tend to play entirely openly and honestly examining things and doing what I can to contribute to town. But things like Lamist actions are things I tend to do as both alignments. If anyone wants to read my town meta feel free to explore my wiki page (ordered chronologically with my most recent games at the bottom of either list) But this is a quick overview to protect my butt from future Red efforts (as they can push me on; Look there doing that thing thats normally red but isn't for them) and so Greens don't push me for being me. I also am probably forgetting somethings. As i'm sleepy
Spoiler:
In post 21, Naomi-Tan wrote:Okay Well did earlier than I like to do. (as I like to make this post as my second post and I have something to comment on so... wanna do my second post followed by the comment). So... here we go.

Hello Everyone!, For those who know my play style this will be my normal meta post so... feel free to skip. For everyone else... time to write :D hiya, I'm naomi and I have a very strange play style. Starting with a quirk; I call town Green and Mafia Reds I've only recently started doing this and I do slip up on this from time to time. So... going forward bare this in mind.

Now. my Green play style is what I was talking about when I said I have a strange style. I tend to do smaller posts throughout with bigger posts on occasion day 1 I like to do bigger read lists and iso's and stuff but it normally becomes unsustainable. This alone isn't strange

The strangeness starts now. I also fear death, So.. It warps my views and sometimes I do things just to get people off me. This can easily be miss read as a Red!tell but Thats just kinda how I am. It also leads me to have a LAMIST kinda playstyle pointing things out and I'm also not very good at the game and sometimes when I notice something that looks sorta suspicious but I dunno what to do with it I'll just kinda draw attention to it and flag people into examining it on my behalf as I couldn't draw a conclusion.

I do try to be fair and try to think about things from others points of views simulating in my head if something is more likely to be a Green move or a Red move and I tend to post that kinda thing. But.... It sometimes leads me to just null conculsions or just leads no where... its kinda a thing.

I am also aware that people see these kinda posts and go; Self meta BS. when I've been doing them there are generally 3 pools of people. those who believe me, those who played with me, and those who don't. If your currently falling in the last group of players feel free to browse my wiki, I post every game I've completed in it and it can be a good source for you to confirm this information. of course most of you won't.. but that just tends to be how it is.

Finally though my account is an older one I have only played a small pool of games as I took around about a year and a half break between two of my games only starting steadily again this year. So.. though I'm an older account I lack the experience and skill of many of my contemporaries.

So.. yeah.. thats pretty much all you need to know to get a good read on myself and... yeah lets get to that post I wanted to make.


TL;DR> She posts this stuff as town. Save your RVS votes for Gamma.
How do you know with such little experience on this site? I mean, experience != skill, but it's kinda hard you can already read a player based off a single post being only a month on the site.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #2) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:37 am

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In post 29, XnadrojX wrote:
I will extend 48 hours if enough people vote for it.


I can switch to this colour if enough people vote for it.
Please extend. Christmas and New Years are common holidays for pretty much everyone.
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Post Post #56 (isolation #3) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:38 am

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In post 40, -Grey- wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
See? His guilty scum mind confesses in his confusion!

Surprised by my quick deduction that he is scum, he questions how I caught him.
Yeah, no.
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Post Post #57 (isolation #4) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:39 am

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In post 43, TwoFace wrote:Why? You need people to distract grey from sr'ing you?
:facepalm:

We have lots to discuss this game it seems....
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Post Post #60 (isolation #5) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:03 am

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No one did. Don't be rude.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #6) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:09 am

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In post 61, -Grey- wrote:
In post 60, Ircher wrote:No one did. Don't be rude.
56 suggests otherwise.
If it was humor, you wouldn't've made the quoted post. One joke is enough.
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Post Post #65 (isolation #7) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:11 am

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....Gamma, you are already a JOAT?! How many games have you played?
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Post Post #71 (isolation #8) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:30 am

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Why not when it's a deadline extension?
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Post Post #72 (isolation #9) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:32 am

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In post 66, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 65, Ircher wrote:....Gamma, you are already a JOAT?! How many games have you played?
Dozens. Go to my wiki. There's also ones I've failed to complete.
You must not have ended up lurking in as many. I'm a high poster in active game that isn't too active.
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Post Post #76 (isolation #10) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:56 am

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I think the Gamma case is relevant right now. Now, please kindly share w/ the rest of the game as I don't see it.

Pedit: It's neutral at worse, pro-town at best. Yes, stagnation is a problem and why deadlines exist, but a bigger problem imo are deadline lynch scrambles. You never know until that point, but I'd say it's better safe than sorry.

Pedit2: Scumreads: Grey, Human Sequencer right now.
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Post Post #80 (isolation #11) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:59 am

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It happens. That's where I stand right now.

Pedit: WKs happen, esp. if there is no case. Bad vote.
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Post Post #81 (isolation #12) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:00 am

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Anyway, would like to point everyone to my wiki page with an ~30% or so win rate.
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Post Post #90 (isolation #13) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:10 am

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Sometimes that's the case, but other times, there truly is a lot to talk about and not enough time to do so. Having less time just makes the scramble occur earlier would is only marginally better at best and most if the time, neutral or even worse imo.

Pedit: Here's some stats for you: I've played 30 games recorded on my wiki page with 8 wins, 22 losses, 27% winrate. I have been town 87% of the time. (26 town, 2 scum, and 2 other). And, I am not undermining anything. Show how I am undermining the town's goal. If you are going to actively throw shade on me, please research me first and tell me if this behavior differs from other games I've played.

Pedit2: VOTE: Gray. Also, those posts were awful. Humor or not, still awful.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #14) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:13 am

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Just keep
on throwing shade without reasonable justification on me based simply on WIFOM and theoretical possible What-If Scenarios that are impossible to determine at this point.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #15) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:17 am

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What type of discussion are you looking for?
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Post Post #96 (isolation #16) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:18 am

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VOTE: Grey
Still scum.
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Post Post #97 (isolation #17) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:19 am

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And no, I doubt I will be lynched w/ 2 or 3 votes, but Ive never really played w/ any of you and therefore do not know if any of you like to lolhammer for whatever reasons.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #18) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:21 am

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And:

1) When did I chainsaw and why did you assume it's a chainsaw?
2) How am I undermining town cohesion?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #19) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:24 am

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In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
In post 42, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 40, -Grey- wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
See? His guilty scum mind confesses in his confusion!

Surprised by my quick deduction that he is scum, he questions how I caught him.
No, that's no slip. I'm asking if "ugly" is said more by town than scum.
BTW people need to post here FAST.
I liked these two posts. Grey stated his responses were humor, but I disagree - he would've stopped with his first response if it was simply humor. Continuing to call it scum posts makes people believe it is serious.

Gamma's reactions were fine -- he is questioning Grey's reads because there dies not appear to be evidence supporting them.
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Post Post #104 (isolation #20) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:25 am

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In post 77, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yo cut the chainsaw PAL.
What chainsaw?
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Post Post #105 (isolation #21) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:26 am

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There's nothing to make me want to join the Gamma wagon as of right now.
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Post Post #107 (isolation #22) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:27 am

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Somewhat fair, but does that constitute necessarily a chainsaw when I was already scumreading Grey (and Sequencer by admittedly assoc.)
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Post Post #110 (isolation #23) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 am

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In post 12, -Grey- wrote:
In post 8, Naomi-Tan wrote:Normally I do this a little later but im up and wanna talk and like keeping this at my second ISO post so. For those who know this post feel free to skip it yadda yadda.
Hi, I'm Naomi I have kinda a strange play style. Firstly Rather than calling people town or Scum I call them Green or Red This is because Its just a nicer thing to call people. I dislike calling people scum as its kinda mean so I switched to the color thing and it appears to have caught on rather well in other games I've been in. Thats not so major. but Its a good thing to note.

Okay so onto the bulk of stuff. My playstyle Is kinda weird. I don't like dying as either alignment and try to stay alive. this means that sometimes I do actions to just look more green and sometimes and Im suspectable to peer pressure. To midigate this I tend to play entirely openly and honestly examining things and doing what I can to contribute to town. But things like Lamist actions are things I tend to do as both alignments. If anyone wants to read my town meta feel free to explore my wiki page (ordered chronologically with my most recent games at the bottom of either list) But this is a quick overview to protect my butt from future Red efforts (as they can push me on; Look there doing that thing thats normally red but isn't for them) and so Greens don't push me for being me. I also am probably forgetting somethings. As i'm sleepy
Spoiler:
In post 21, Naomi-Tan wrote:Okay Well did earlier than I like to do. (as I like to make this post as my second post and I have something to comment on so... wanna do my second post followed by the comment). So... here we go.

Hello Everyone!, For those who know my play style this will be my normal meta post so... feel free to skip. For everyone else... time to write :D hiya, I'm naomi and I have a very strange play style. Starting with a quirk; I call town Green and Mafia Reds I've only recently started doing this and I do slip up on this from time to time. So... going forward bare this in mind.

Now. my Green play style is what I was talking about when I said I have a strange style. I tend to do smaller posts throughout with bigger posts on occasion day 1 I like to do bigger read lists and iso's and stuff but it normally becomes unsustainable. This alone isn't strange

The strangeness starts now. I also fear death, So.. It warps my views and sometimes I do things just to get people off me. This can easily be miss read as a Red!tell but Thats just kinda how I am. It also leads me to have a LAMIST kinda playstyle pointing things out and I'm also not very good at the game and sometimes when I notice something that looks sorta suspicious but I dunno what to do with it I'll just kinda draw attention to it and flag people into examining it on my behalf as I couldn't draw a conclusion.

I do try to be fair and try to think about things from others points of views simulating in my head if something is more likely to be a Green move or a Red move and I tend to post that kinda thing. But.... It sometimes leads me to just null conculsions or just leads no where... its kinda a thing.

I am also aware that people see these kinda posts and go; Self meta BS. when I've been doing them there are generally 3 pools of people. those who believe me, those who played with me, and those who don't. If your currently falling in the last group of players feel free to browse my wiki, I post every game I've completed in it and it can be a good source for you to confirm this information. of course most of you won't.. but that just tends to be how it is.

Finally though my account is an older one I have only played a small pool of games as I took around about a year and a half break between two of my games only starting steadily again this year. So.. though I'm an older account I lack the experience and skill of many of my contemporaries.

So.. yeah.. thats pretty much all you need to know to get a good read on myself and... yeah lets get to that post I wanted to make.


TL;DR> She posts this stuff as town. Save your RVS votes for Gamma.
1) Why are you so keen on Gamma
2) How is this in any way indicative of alignment

My 3rd Q here was already answered.
In post 40, -Grey- wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
See? His guilty scum mind confesses in his confusion!

Surprised by my quick deduction that he is scum, he questions how I caught him.
If it were humor, there was no reason to post this follow-up after the first post.
In post 58, -Grey- wrote:
In post 54, Ircher wrote:How do you know with such little experience on this site? I mean, experience != skill, but it's kinda hard you can already read a player based off a single post being only a month on the site.
As I quoted, she made the same kind of post on another game she played where she was town.

It was not posted as proof of her alignment, just to stop paranoid players from wasting time voting her over that wall because it's NAI.

My post seemed pretty self-explanatory, to me.
Not really. And why would people vote someone outside the beginning of the game for making a single LAMIST wall?
In post 67, -Grey- wrote:
In post 63, Ircher wrote:
In post 61, -Grey- wrote:
In post 60, Ircher wrote:No one did. Don't be rude.
56 suggests otherwise.
If it was humor, you wouldn't've made the quoted post. One joke is enough.
61 wasn't a joke, I agree one is enough.
You knew what I meant.
In post 68, -Grey- wrote:
In post 64, Gamma Emerald wrote:Grey's a bit of a poser. Either that or he's an alt.
Neither. It's not advanced physics to check a player's history and see the same kind of post in other games.
And? People can manipulate their meta. It's the trends that matter, but you have to realize that it has to be a hard-to-manipulate trend. If, as you say, Naomi only posts that as town, then the post has become borderline-Trust Tell as a result. Anyway, it isn't a hard thing to do as scum so the entire post is null.
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Post Post #111 (isolation #24) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 am

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Pretty sure that's like L-2 at this point.
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Post Post #112 (isolation #25) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:47 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 108, All Alone wrote:
In post 93, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm not seeing the type of discussion I want.
Maybe the inactives will provide.
This post reads scum to me. I don't really see a town motivation for counting on an inactive player to provide discussion. I mean, that's kind of the opposite of what "inactive" means! A townie who's frustrated with the discussion not going their way usually takes the initiative to provide that discussion themself, but Gamma doesn't. As scum hoping to hold back, his mindset here makes a lot more sense.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
This is what I'm looking for. While I agree with the premise stated here, I don't think it warrants a wagon in comparison to everything else Gamma has done so far.
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Post Post #116 (isolation #26) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:51 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 113, -Grey- wrote:
In post 110, Ircher wrote:so the entire post is null.
No shit Sherlock.

In post 14, -Grey- wrote:
In post 13, Human Sequencer wrote:NAI at best.
Precisely.
Then why'd you bring it up? We're back to square one.
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Post Post #121 (isolation #27) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:54 am

Post by Ircher »

There once was a scum named Grey
Who was keen to tunnel his prey.
Try as he might, he just couldn't be right
And in the end we all just pray.
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Post Post #143 (isolation #28) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:44 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 131, Asphodel wrote:Gamma: I read the first 5 pages of that game and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have gotten from it.
In post 114, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 108, All Alone wrote:
In post 93, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm not seeing the type of discussion I want.
Maybe the inactives will provide.
This post reads scum to me. I don't really see a town motivation for counting on an inactive player to provide discussion. I mean, that's kind of the opposite of what "inactive" means! A townie who's frustrated with the discussion not going their way usually takes the initiative to provide that discussion themself, but Gamma doesn't. As scum hoping to hold back, his mindset here makes a lot more sense.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Nah it's town.

It's day 1 first few pages. It's evident, at least to me that Gamma doesn't care about the wagon on him, but instead is interested in the inactives, or those that will try to hide behind a bandwagon so they don't have to contribute much to the discussion.
This opinion seems forced and kinda scummy to me.
In post 112, Ircher wrote:This is what I'm looking for. While I agree with the premise stated here,
I don't think it warrants a wagon in comparison to everything else Gamma has done so far.
1) Earlier posts make it seem like his defense of Gamma is based on Gamma not having done anything scummy rather than seeming overwhelmingly town.

VOTE: Ircher
1) Not really a contradiction -- I explained at least one instance where Gamma's posts looked town.
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Post Post #159 (isolation #29) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:57 am

Post by Ircher »

Grey is still scum. And inability/unwillingness to multitask is not a scumtell because it is easier and more effective to try to sort only one person at a time versus doing a half-done job on multiple people.

Pedit: Stop side-stepping the issue.

Pedit2: You had your time to see my response. I stayed off it and said why I didn't support it.

Pedit3: What's not scum is probably town. Again, I already given one instance of what I read as town posts from Gamma.

Pedit4: Another ninja!
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Post Post #161 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:58 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 103, Ircher wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
In post 42, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 40, -Grey- wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
See? His guilty scum mind confesses in his confusion!

Surprised by my quick deduction that he is scum, he questions how I caught him.
No, that's no slip. I'm asking if "ugly" is said more by town than scum.
BTW people need to post here FAST.
I liked these two posts. Grey stated his responses were humor, but I disagree - he would've stopped with his first response if it was simply humor. Continuing to call it scum posts makes people believe it is serious.

Gamma's reactions were fine -- he is questioning Grey's reads because there dies not appear to be evidence supporting them.
Town posts from Gamma.
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Post Post #165 (isolation #31) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:00 am

Post by Ircher »

:facepalm:
VOTE: Grey - Add question evading and literal wording vs. meaning to the list of his "crimes".

Pedit: So it's a much better case than any of the others so far presented.
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Post Post #167 (isolation #32) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:04 am

Post by Ircher »

Tell me why that isn't valid. In the end, most posts will end up as null cuz thats just how things work out.
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Post Post #168 (isolation #33) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:06 am

Post by Ircher »

Gamma is scumhunting, formulating reads on non-bogus reasons (aka I can see reasons for why he feels the way he does) and is cooperating for the most part with everyone else by elaborating when asked and questioning things he does not understand.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #34) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:09 am

Post by Ircher »

The biggest complaint is prob. his posts about discussion not being about things he wants them to be on, but a minor default does not make Gamma not town.

In literature, there are tragic heroes who are characterized by their major fault. That doesn't make them any less a hero, even if it contributes to their downfall. The same applies here with my read on Gamma.

Pedit: So voting you multiple times is a scumtell. Noted.
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Post Post #174 (isolation #35) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:12 am

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Yes, but that doesn't guve you an excuse to actively try to be anti-town.
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Post Post #178 (isolation #36) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:19 am

Post by Ircher »

With that attitude, practically everything can be considered null.
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Post Post #179 (isolation #37) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:20 am

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For 8 pages, my reads are sufficient justified.
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Post Post #186 (isolation #38) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:07 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 184, Alisae wrote:Sequencer, don't you get the feeling that Ircher is trying to push lynch bait extremely hard?
How about phrasing that as a non-loaded question?
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Post Post #188 (isolation #39) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:10 am

Post by Ircher »

And my biased response is no, esp. considering that in the one newbie game that Grey has completed, Grey was killed N1.
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Post Post #197 (isolation #40) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:49 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 189, Asphodel wrote:Ircher: Human Sequencer is town. Thoughts?
It's a possibility. I'm backing away from my earlier shallow scumread there.
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Post Post #200 (isolation #41) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:53 am

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1) My experience is on my wiki along with a bunch of useful aggregrate stats. The only thing not on there is the breakdown by gane category.
2) Experience only matters for new players. Once you understand the game, experience no longer matters other than your experience with other players. I am experienced but not necessarily skilled at this game.
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Post Post #206 (isolation #42) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:13 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 201, Asphodel wrote:Ircher, maybe I need to be a little more specific: Human Sequencer is town from 139.
The post reads as neutral, possibly town. The scumread & vote wasn't necessarily bad imo and the unwillingness to multitask is null. It's not something that jumps out as town, but it doesn't jump out as scum either.
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Post Post #296 (isolation #43) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:20 pm

Post by Ircher »

Spoiler: Reads - Day 1 #1
Confirmed Town
(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
1. Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town
(85%-97% Confidence)
2. All Alone (90%) - was an ok question. I mean, I don't necessarily agree with the perspective but the follow up in was well-justified. I concur with the justification and analysis in , but even with that, I don't support the wagon. was a pretty good case imo that I am considering joining. (But right now, I'm hanging on to my Grey scumread and will let myself determine my read there).

Leaning Town
(60%-84% Confidence)
3. Gamma (70%) - and read as town to me and you cannot argue otherwise as it is MY opinion. is a bit beyond paranoia and somewhat accusatory imo. is odd, but not necessarily telling.
4. Human Sequencer (68%) - is a good start to the ISO. Not following the Gamma read in . Once more, reads neitral -- unlike Asphodel's opinion, there are many factors to a read and some reasons are based on gut trends versus specific evidence. (There's general evidence, but the trend and gut read matters more; it's hard to tell from a single post). reads as genuine confusion. pings a bit since there was a Gamma wagon that I quite adamantly expressed my opinion on.

Null
(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
5. Naomi-Tan (+25%) - felt genuine as did the subsequent posts. is reasonable too -- not overly defensive. The ISO lacks enough content for me to get a full read here. (Granted, it's one of the longer ISOs though)
6. Flubbernugget (+1%) - Pretty much nothing useful; slight gut read but meh.
7. TheRealGin-N-Tonic (-12%) - is meh. is very unclear and almost sounds like fluff tbh. Not enough content for a conclusive read.

Neutral
(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
8. Alisae (+50%) - was a good question, even if literally, it seems like a useless question. Don't like cuz it's a loaded question; was better after I asked for it to be unbiased.
9. TwoFace (-40%) - feels off; it just does. is pretty poor justification for a vote and a bad response to All Alone's question (even if I somewhat agree with what was stated). is just buzzwords with no hard evidence.
10. Asphodel (-50%) - There are good and bad things about . Obviouslu, the bad thing about it is the entire intro and how it is focused on Asphodel being town; however, I know I have done similar things (though not nearly as in-depth) as town before multiple times, so that point is kinda moot. The actual content aside from the intro is acceptable imo. 's logic reads as somewhat reachy (as in, it fits, but it feels overemphasized and ignorant of the larger picture) but that may be due to bias. is off, but I won't judge until post-flip from Flubber or Asp. is basically discrediting a read just because with littke to no explanation as to why you don't like it. fails to consider that D1 has lasted for less than 24 hours, so we're still extremely early in the game. - I disagree, You cannot discredit a read just because you think differently; it's
their
read.

Leaning Scum
(60%-75% Confidence)
11. Grey (-65%) - feels unnecessary and superflous imo. feels weird (later states it was humor, okay, I can see that....). His "continuance" of his joke in seems more serious than a joke. (Well actually tbh, 38 is the more serious post, but it's the need to further the joke that I find unnecessary and as an actual serious remark). Never really supports his assertion in that I'm undermining the town to keep them from cooperating. 's content would be fine if it was less accusatory. Posts , , , are deliberate attempts to evade a legitimate point against him by on purposely interpreting things literally. is a valid response to the question, but it took too long to get an answer there. is null, but I would note that experience != skill. was also a fairly decent post. Starting to have my doubts here, but we'll wait and see.

Likely Scum
(76%-100% Confidence)


Note that I started this around 4:00 or so, so some of these may be outdated a little bit.
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Post Post #297 (isolation #44) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:21 pm

Post by Ircher »

@Mod - Fix formatting please?



Mod edit:
what do you need fixed? the spoiler tags look fine to me
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Post Post #299 (isolation #45) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:23 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 211, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 53, Ircher wrote:
In post 8, Naomi-Tan wrote:Normally I do this a little later but im up and wanna talk and like keeping this at my second ISO post so. For those who know this post feel free to skip it yadda yadda.
Hi, I'm Naomi I have kinda a strange play style. Firstly Rather than calling people town or Scum I call them Green or Red This is because Its just a nicer thing to call people. I dislike calling people scum as its kinda mean so I switched to the color thing and it appears to have caught on rather well in other games I've been in. Thats not so major. but Its a good thing to note.

Okay so onto the bulk of stuff. My playstyle Is kinda weird. I don't like dying as either alignment and try to stay alive. this means that sometimes I do actions to just look more green and sometimes and Im suspectable to peer pressure. To midigate this I tend to play entirely openly and honestly examining things and doing what I can to contribute to town. But things like Lamist actions are things I tend to do as both alignments. If anyone wants to read my town meta feel free to explore my wiki page (ordered chronologically with my most recent games at the bottom of either list) But this is a quick overview to protect my butt from future Red efforts (as they can push me on; Look there doing that thing thats normally red but isn't for them) and so Greens don't push me for being me. I also am probably forgetting somethings. As i'm sleepy
One question --- Does making this post actually help you in any way?
Yes. It lets people know what to expect and helps me protect myself aganist reds pushing me for a miss lynch so its useful that way. also helps inform town onto what to expect saving foot work for those who are lazy. The way I see it you can either Believe it, NAI it or See it as an excuse setup for later, which it totally is as well. thats just kinda how its been. I normally get those who havn't played with me before fitting into the latter two while those who have palyed with me before fit into the former two (as they have experienced it) As It in no way hurts to share information and I provide sources for people to check out I feel its a good and helpful thing that those who are paranoida can backup. Even if it is NAI. An NAI post to explain some things you'll red read me for are NAI is useful to me :D
Was wondering because I've tried similar stuff before (a lot briefer though) and it's never worked well for me.
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Post Post #300 (isolation #46) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 226, TwoFace wrote:
In post 70, All Alone wrote:
In post 32, TwoFace wrote:
In post 29, XnadrojX wrote:
I will extend 48 hours if enough people vote for it.


I can switch to this colour if enough people vote for it.
I vote for an extension though I don't think we'll actually need it.
Why are you voting for something you don't think town needs?

VOTE: TwoFace
Well hello scum.

I voted cause why not. Just cause I'm optimistic about not needing it, it's stupid to not ask for it.

Sorry guys. I tried.

VOTE: all alone
I will admit that Twoface did catch something here that is worth noting.
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Post Post #302 (isolation #47) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:28 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 238, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 237, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 119, Gamma Emerald wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68600
Just going to leave this here. Everyone should read up to page 5.
Sorry I do not read other posts about Meta had picked from a game selection as it can lead to meta manipulation. this is also why my source for self meta is my Wiki page with all my mafia games as You can't fake your meta in every matchup. If that makes sense.

I am making a read list along side my readup now To post so people know my reads.
I'm not telling you to meta me. I'm telling you to read the first 5 pages as I feel it is relevant.
I did and I didn't see the connection.
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Post Post #304 (isolation #48) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:36 pm

Post by Ircher »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #312 (isolation #49) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:52 pm

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@All Alone --> Needing and being helpful are two different things.
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Post Post #325 (isolation #50) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 323, Alisae wrote:Have you ever thought that Ircher is pretending to scumhunt?
Out of all the people you ask that.....
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Post Post #326 (isolation #51) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 325, Ircher wrote:
In post 323, Alisae wrote:Have you ever thought that Ircher is pretending to scumhunt?
Out of all the people you can ask that to, you ask it to the one who's most likely to have considered that.....
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Post Post #338 (isolation #52) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:54 pm

Post by Ircher »

Yeah, tbh, there's not as much scumhunting in Gamma's ISO as I thought originally.

Like, it did look like he was doing useful stuff but going back through, I'm not quite as certain that the slot's town anymore. (Still pretty sure on the premise that there is very little to complain about.)
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Post Post #342 (isolation #53) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:58 pm

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@Gin - It was a more reactionary post at the time. I mean, I did check once, but I kinda skimmed through and was looking for certain things. The readslist I provided earlier prob. gives a more objective and supported perspective for where I am since I actually looked through the ISOs a bit more intently.
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Post Post #345 (isolation #54) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:07 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 341, Alisae wrote:
In post 335, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 332, -Grey- wrote:Alisae needs more votes.

I found me a cautious scum.
I'm actually going to second this motion and will hop on that Oregon Trail wagon


VOTE: Alisea


P-Edit: I ain't reading shit that's not related to this game. Now you can go ahead and tell me what you're after but you're going to explain that here. I ain't your damn lapdog.
Have I done anything else to you that seemed scummy prior to grey's vote?
The answer to this fyi is yes. Granted, I found the first half of your ISO (when I made my readslist in other words) somewhat townish.
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Post Post #349 (isolation #55) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:12 pm

Post by Ircher »

@Grey
8. Alisae (+50%) - 146 was a good question, even if literally, it seems like a useless question. Don't like 184 cuz it's a loaded question; 187 was better after I asked for it to be unbiased.
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Post Post #351 (isolation #56) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:14 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 346, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:@Alisae, haven't checked much but it's more of a placeholder vote.

@Ircher, "looking for certain things" which would be?

BRB, finding some info and reading ISOs

P-Edit:
@Grey, then I guess we'll have to wait and see what he flips when he does.

P-Edit 2:
@Alisae, I don't feel like fucking voting?
It depends. Like, at one point, I was looking for town posts in Gamma's ISO (considering my earlier WK)
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Post Post #352 (isolation #57) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:16 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 350, -Grey- wrote:
In post 349, Ircher wrote:@Grey
8. Alisae (+50%) - 146 was a good question, even if literally, it seems like a useless question. Don't like 184 cuz it's a loaded question; 187 was better after I asked for it to be unbiased.
That doesn't explain why you answered a question that was directed at someone else.
Kinda have a habit of doing so. Pretty sure that isn't the first time I've done so this game.
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Post Post #355 (isolation #58) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:20 pm

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@Gin - Clarify?
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Post Post #359 (isolation #59) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:27 pm

Post by Ircher »

I've already answered that. You can look at my readslist or you can go find my earlier quote when I went through Gamma's ISO looking for town stuff.
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Post Post #360 (isolation #60) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:31 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 103, Ircher wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
In post 42, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 40, -Grey- wrote:
In post 39, Gamma Emerald wrote:What? Did the use of the word "ugly" become a scumtell?
See? His guilty scum mind confesses in his confusion!

Surprised by my quick deduction that he is scum, he questions how I caught him.
No, that's no slip. I'm asking if "ugly" is said more by town than scum.
BTW people need to post here FAST.
I liked these two posts. Grey stated his responses were humor, but I disagree - he would've stopped with his first response if it was simply humor. Continuing to call it scum posts makes people believe it is serious.

Gamma's reactions were fine -- he is questioning Grey's reads because there dies not appear to be evidence supporting them.
Town posts at the time I made the comment you're asking about.
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Post Post #364 (isolation #61) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:44 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 297, Ircher wrote:
@Mod - Fix formatting please?



Mod edit:
what do you need fixed? the spoiler tags look fine to me
One of the post tags under my read for Asphodel. (ppst instead of post)


fixed
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Post Post #375 (isolation #62) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:24 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 333, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Whew, caught up. Okay reads and then questions

Reads:
RainbowDash town as fuck$Still don't like her because I played a MLP themed game of Mafia and lost it because I sent a mafioso into a vet, ergo allowing an escape from a MyLo and loss of game. UGH
Can you explain your Rainbow read a bit more? The second sentence seems completely irrelevant to the first.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #63) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:34 pm

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Scummy != Scum; Sheeping != Scummy
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Post Post #378 (isolation #64) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:37 pm

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Ooh, I just noticed something. Wonder if the rest of you noticed. (It's not really relevant to who's scum and all; just something I just noticed ;))
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Post Post #382 (isolation #65) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:41 pm

Post by Ircher »

@Alisae - How about you step back from your current Gin read for say an hour or two and maybe look elsewhere then proceed to reanalyze your Gin read after that?
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Post Post #385 (isolation #66) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:43 pm

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Cuz I think you might be tunneling right now.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #67) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:44 pm

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I just want you to look elsewhere besides Gin right now. Then reevaluate Gin when you can be more objective about it.
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Post Post #498 (isolation #68) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 398, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay don't attack him for his playstyle. You just set my scumdar off big time.
This ^.
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Post Post #500 (isolation #69) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 420, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 418, Alisae wrote:Naomi what does the interaction between me and gin tell you about the both of us?
Like, I dunno if Gin just really doesn't know how to handle pressure and he's townie because he seems genuinely frustrated or if he's scum.
Like, I think this might be his first game on site as well tho.
To me it looks like you fell into a red trap. They set you up by asking a leading question and then span that as fence sitting. But if you look at your play you can see the weakness's as well as the townie aspects of it. Its not explicitly bad to examine things carefully before voting (It took me till page 11 to vote) To say your fence sitting would be incorrect. You gave your thoughts on things as the game went on you just didn't vote. This to me says that You wasn't sure enough to vote. which is a Green trait as reds don't hesitate as much especially on people who are weaker players as they can shrug it off if they turn out to be proactive // good for greens
Did you read Grey's opinion on the matter? (Alisae is voting conservatively to try to blend in?)
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Post Post #502 (isolation #70) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:23 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 423, Alisae wrote:Going back into one of my previous games just to find something to lynch me on. Ya know, I don't like that.
Have you ever taken into consideration that that was my first game and that I was learning as I was playing the game?
VOTE: All Alone
OMGUS vote. Poor justification imo; meta does make a difference. (It's the general trends and traits that matter though, not individual actions.)
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Post Post #504 (isolation #71) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:28 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 437, Naomi-Tan wrote:Additionally given my analysis I believe after they read this they'll attempt to 180 Given thus far I been on her side and a rather 3rd party to the original situation so she is more likely to read my posts with a positive mindset which may be enough to realign her view point as she takes a step back and looks at the situation from my perspective. However, if they are intelligent they will also know this will only bring MORE heat so may stick with it to not get lynched. Which is why I'm setting up this post here to provide an out. How Am I going to do this? like this.

Alisae If upon reading my posts you have changed your views please let us know.
Why are you providing a way out? Why can't you let Alisae find her (?) own way out of this situation?
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Post Post #505 (isolation #72) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:29 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 444, Alisae wrote:Yeah, I don't really think Gin is scum as much anymore.
And with that said, I am concerned for how he's playing and I don't like it.
I'm not fully convinced that he's town though. So he get's a null scumlean.

I still think Gamma is town.

You're thoughts on All Alone, because I think their vote on me seems like an attempt to have a justified vote and hop on the wagon.
Hey, where did your earlier Asphodel read go?
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Post Post #509 (isolation #73) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:31 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 450, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 449, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 433, Naomi-Tan wrote:Like Given the last time someone pressured her she contradicted herself in the same post It shows that she is the kinda of player that hears responses and takes them to heart getting emotional swiftly and the more emotional she gets the less logical she becomes.
So you're saying Ailsae is just a flustered townie, more so than the possibility that she's scum having a hard time coming up with an argument?

Need to know for my notes.
yes It doesn't make much sense from the latter perspective as you'd be trying to think carfully to reduce pressure while making mistakes like the one she did shows that she wasn't handling the pressure very well.
More white-knighting. But, is it town or is it scum white kinghting?
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Post Post #511 (isolation #74) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:32 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 452, Alisae wrote:
In post 429, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 427, -Grey- wrote:My my, what a development.

An Alisae red flip will make me very interested in Naomi.
No doubt given the above post XD
This is why Naomi is town.
I see no reason why Scum Naomi would defend me.
Buddying, getting on your good side, etc. are all reasons.
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Post Post #514 (isolation #75) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:37 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 471, TwoFace wrote:I'll just ignore HS for now. his opinions can't be trusted
Why can't he be trusted? This feels more like disagreement than anything.
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Post Post #515 (isolation #76) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:38 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 473, -Grey- wrote:A somebody town doesn't make them town.

I haven't liked Alisae's avoidance of wagons based on appearances (how being on them would make her look), and nothing she's done since then has convinced me otherwise.

The only other place I see myself voting today would be Naomi for the blatant white knighting. She seems to be invested in ensuring Alisae isn't run up. Makes sense if she's trying to protect a scum PR.
There's an alternative actually.
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Post Post #516 (isolation #77) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:41 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 482, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 473, -Grey- wrote:A somebody town doesn't make them town.

I haven't liked Alisae's avoidance of wagons based on appearances (how being on them would make her look), and nothing she's done since then has convinced me otherwise.

The only other place I see myself voting today would be Naomi for the blatant white knighting. She seems to be invested in ensuring Alisae isn't run up. Makes sense if she's trying to protect a scum PR.
Hmm thats a weird way to put it. the last I spoke about things with Alisae you was sure we was on the same team. given the change of your stance did you change your thoughts? if so why didn't you unvote and switch to me? Cause If you think I'm white knighting that means you think Alisae is Green from that the time of the quoted message. I saw a miss lynch happening and I stepped in and gave them an out. given that Reds have no day talk It would make more sense to assume that I was assisting a red team mate out of a bad situation given your previous stance rather than going with white knighting. Can you tell me how you came to white knighting over just assisting a red team mate?
1) How do you kniw scum dont have daytalk?
2) Don't like thus distance from your white-knight
3) Several other issues with this post

VOTE: Naomi - Not a town white-knight imo.
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Post Post #518 (isolation #78) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:44 am

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But you state he cant be trusted. Why not? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you should ignore him completely.
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Post Post #520 (isolation #79) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:50 am

Post by Ircher »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64916
Day 1 of this shows a town white-knight. They dont go constantly go back and forth on reads and give in whenever it feels it's convenient; they stick with it as AlwaysInnocent did with me in the linked game.
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Post Post #522 (isolation #80) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:53 am

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Nah, it plus the stance distancing are worth looking into.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #81) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:58 am

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Care to elaborate?
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Post Post #527 (isolation #82) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:02 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 525, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way both hopped on based on a non-existent slip is very scummy, but I'm not sure scum would group their votes so close.
I wouldn't call it non-existent.
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Post Post #536 (isolation #83) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:11 am

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Defending at all costs = White-Knighting regardless of alignment.
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Post Post #539 (isolation #84) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:12 am

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Cuz its common and encryptors are explicitly normal.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #85) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:14 am

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It was a white-knight just like I did earlier with Gamma.
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Post Post #546 (isolation #86) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:24 am

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I was linking the two of you. It was clearly a white-knight.
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Post Post #547 (isolation #87) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:25 am

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And, I avoid pre-flip assoc. tells cuz they're bound to be wrong. Talk to me about Two Face.
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Post Post #551 (isolation #88) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:40 am

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In post 549, Naomi-Tan wrote:Okay lets get stop Alisae killing themselves.

Alisae - Okay I know your prob reading this and have gone quiet as you don't know what to make of things. but you should not join my wagon. If you join right now and I flip green they will go back to hounding you and if I flip red they will say that you are my red buddy and joined late as you couldn't see me talking my way out of things and want the green credit.
More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".
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Post Post #559 (isolation #89) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:57 am

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In post 555, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 551, Ircher wrote:More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".
Given that your current white knight POV. why is helping someone a bad thing. given you should be thinking; 'A Red is preventing a green from dying, thats a good thing, I don't need to comment'.

Yeah Just cause people are red reading me right now doesn't mean its gonna stop me helping someone who looks green and looks like they need assistance.
Let them help themselves.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #90) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:57 am

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In post 556, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 553, TwoFace wrote:
In post 550, Naomi-Tan wrote:Two face you out here?
I am now, sup
I dunno how I'm gonna convince others to stop pushing me. but
I think I can get you to unvote
. Could you
consider our previous games
for a moment If I point out some key things?
What even is this?
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Post Post #562 (isolation #91) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:01 am

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Fair enough.
UNVOTE: for now.
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Post Post #569 (isolation #92) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:06 am

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In post 564, Gamma Emerald wrote:Once krylea seems caught up enough you all will know what the fuck my deal has been this game.
Just tell us already.
Keeping it secret is just so stupid.
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Post Post #575 (isolation #93) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:21 am

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I think so.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #94) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:08 am

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In post 584, Naomi-Tan wrote:Okay guys so... I was doing a thought experiment over a snack break. Given there are 13 players and 3 of them are red and there is no declared day talk. I'm guessing we have 4 green Pr's and 2 Red Pr's :3

Im not looking for anyone to claim. but I will see if things match upto this later :3 I wanna become better at predicting the setups.
Just no.
Setup spec when it makes mechanically sense to do so (here it does not) and when determining whether a setup is balanced.
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Post Post #602 (isolation #95) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:34 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 601, Alisae wrote:
In post 559, Ircher wrote:
In post 555, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 551, Ircher wrote:More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".
Given that your current white knight POV. why is helping someone a bad thing. given you should be thinking; 'A Red is preventing a green from dying, thats a good thing, I don't need to comment'.

Yeah Just cause people are red reading me right now doesn't mean its gonna stop me helping someone who looks green and looks like they need assistance.
Let them help themselves.
I don't like this. You're trying to discourage town from building a cohesive town to form town led lynches.
In post 573, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 366, Alisae wrote:Qutie frankly I am calm, collected, and tired. Not freaking out. Press my buttons a bit and I can do that.

Either way, your voting is...I believe the right term is wishywashy?
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Dude I miss the evidence for this?
My point with this I don't see why he was voting me at the time if he had bigger scumreads.
You know, Grey said the same thing about me at the beginning of the game except he didn't even try to back it up w/ quotes of any sort.....
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Post Post #609 (isolation #96) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:43 am

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In post 603, Alisae wrote:
In post 602, Ircher wrote:
In post 601, Alisae wrote:
In post 559, Ircher wrote:
In post 555, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 551, Ircher wrote:More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".
Given that your current white knight POV. why is helping someone a bad thing. given you should be thinking; 'A Red is preventing a green from dying, thats a good thing, I don't need to comment'.

Yeah Just cause people are red reading me right now doesn't mean its gonna stop me helping someone who looks green and looks like they need assistance.
Let them help themselves.
I don't like this. You're trying to discourage town from building a cohesive town to form town led lynches.
In post 573, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 366, Alisae wrote:Qutie frankly I am calm, collected, and tired. Not freaking out. Press my buttons a bit and I can do that.

Either way, your voting is...I believe the right term is wishywashy?
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Dude I miss the evidence for this?
My point with this I don't see why he was voting me at the time if he had bigger scumreads.
You know, Grey said the same thing about me at the beginning of the game except he didn't even try to back it up w/ quotes of any sort.....
Ya know, why are you saying this?
Cuz it's buzzword soup. That's why. Explain how it prevents town cohesion.
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Post Post #621 (isolation #97) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:57 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 613, Alisae wrote:
In post 609, Ircher wrote:
In post 603, Alisae wrote:
In post 602, Ircher wrote:
In post 601, Alisae wrote:
In post 559, Ircher wrote:
In post 555, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 551, Ircher wrote:More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".
Given that your current white knight POV. why is helping someone a bad thing. given you should be thinking; 'A Red is preventing a green from dying, thats a good thing, I don't need to comment'.

Yeah Just cause people are red reading me right now doesn't mean its gonna stop me helping someone who looks green and looks like they need assistance.
Let them help themselves.
I don't like this. You're trying to discourage town from building a cohesive town to form town led lynches.
In post 573, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 366, Alisae wrote:Qutie frankly I am calm, collected, and tired. Not freaking out. Press my buttons a bit and I can do that.

Either way, your voting is...I believe the right term is wishywashy?
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Dude I miss the evidence for this?
My point with this I don't see why he was voting me at the time if he had bigger scumreads.
You know, Grey said the same thing about me at the beginning of the game except he didn't even try to back it up w/ quotes of any sort.....
Ya know, why are you saying this?
Cuz it's buzzword soup. That's why. Explain how it prevents town cohesion.
2nd quote doesn't. First quote seems as if it's trying to prevent town cohesion because you're going after someone who if scum has more motivation to go after me then defend me. If she hopped on my wagon, I think there would be a huge as fuck wagon on me by this point assuming if scum continued to hop on.
You're saying to defend myself when you saw an example of how I am with pressure. IE not good with it apparently.
Not necessarily. Scum defend town to gain trust and for I-told-you-so towncred on mislynches they stayed off of.
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Post Post #647 (isolation #98) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:34 am

Post by Ircher »

:left:
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Post Post #651 (isolation #99) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:37 am

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So, point to the right if you think we're approaching this from the wrong angle.

:right:

Also, is it just me, or did Asphodel disappear?

V/LA December 25
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Post Post #653 (isolation #100) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:39 am

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I dont hod mysekf to a low standard; doesnt necessarily mean I'm gonna be good. One size never fits all.
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Post Post #656 (isolation #101) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:39 am

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That's why meta matters -- It tells you how to read a player.
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Post Post #662 (isolation #102) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:45 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 658, TwoFace wrote:
In post 656, Ircher wrote:That's why meta matters -- It tells you how to read a player.
mata is garbage cause it can be manipulated
Hence why you look at the playstyle / behavior rather than individual posts.

Again, one-size-dones-not-fit-all.
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Post Post #663 (isolation #103) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:45 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 661, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 654, -Grey- wrote:
In post 652, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 645, -Grey- wrote:Gamma, if you're town then you should know this is my Newbie 1762 play.

That's all I'm going to offer you in way of an explanation.

2F, you don't deserve one because your push is just plain ol' butthurt.
I don't care about your meta. I hate people who hold their play to a low standard.
Don't ask others to read yours if you won't return the favor.
I'm not asking people to meta me. If it's about the link, remember I said first 5 pages.
Explain please. I'm tired of waiting. Just do it.
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Post Post #667 (isolation #104) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:50 am

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What would be nice are some readslists from everyone.
With reasons
.

Mine's outdated, but I'll fix that sooner or later.
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Post Post #671 (isolation #105) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:56 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 668, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fine. I REALLY WANTED to get a hard townread out of this, but since no one knows proper play I have to be the IC of this game.
I am an Ascetic Enabler. I was hoping Ascetics would come forward and claim so I could have townreads to start with. The proper play with the Ascetic modifier is to claim in your first post or so. However, no one seems to get that, so I decided to go hamfisted and link to the last game I played with an Ascetic. STILL no one got it, mostly because no one bothered to read it. So I now have to fucking depants before I can use my role info to find town.
Either scum are ascetic or kry has an ascetic.
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Post Post #672 (isolation #106) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:56 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 670, TwoFace wrote:
In post 668, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fine. I REALLY WANTED to get a hard townread out of this, but since no one knows proper play I have to be the IC of this game.
I am an Ascetic Enabler. I was hoping Ascetics would come forward and claim so I could have townreads to start with. The proper play with the Ascetic modifier is to claim in your first post or so. However, no one seems to get that, so I decided to go hamfisted and link to the last game I played with an Ascetic. STILL no one got it, mostly because no one bothered to read it. So I now have to fucking depants before I can use my role info to find town.
I don't get why you claimed.
He just explained why.
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Post Post #673 (isolation #107) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:57 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 668, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fine. I REALLY WANTED to get a hard townread out of this, but since no one knows proper play I have to be the IC of this game.
I am an Ascetic Enabler. I was hoping Ascetics would come forward and claim so I could have townreads to start with.
The proper play with the Ascetic modifier is to claim in your first post or so. However, no one seems to get that, so I decided to go hamfisted and link to the last game I played with an Ascetic. STILL no one got it, mostly because no one bothered to read it.
So I now have to fucking depants before I can use my role info to find town.
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Post Post #676 (isolation #108) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:58 am

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Also:

Ascetic should claim now. Failure to do so is an auto-lynch in the future should you be proven to be an ascetic.
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Post Post #677 (isolation #109) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:58 am

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I really hope it isn't a scum ascetic actually.....
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Post Post #680 (isolation #110) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:00 am

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Kry, do you claim ascetic?

What if this is a red herring though?
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Post Post #758 (isolation #111) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:06 pm

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In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.
That tell works just about as well as all the other scumtells.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #112) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:07 pm

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In post 735, Alisae wrote:
In post 733, XnadrojX wrote:Not Voting 4 (Ircher, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Rainbowdash)
Vote some nerds when ywall get the chance please, otherwise it looks bad cause to me this reads to me as ywall have no strong scumreads.
This game is crazy. You're right -- I need to do some reevalyations.
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Post Post #763 (isolation #113) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:13 pm

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In post 752, -Grey- wrote:
In post 751, krylea wrote:I don't like this. There are tons of other roles that could lead to no-results.
I don't for a second buy an ascetic enabler + roleblocker/rolestopper in this game.
Hrm....
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Post Post #766 (isolation #114) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:14 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 762, Alisae wrote:
In post 758, Ircher wrote:
In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.
That tell works just about as well as all the other scumtells.
Whats your point here?
It's a pretty much useless "tell".
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Post Post #773 (isolation #115) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 768, Alisae wrote:
In post 766, Ircher wrote:
In post 762, Alisae wrote:
In post 758, Ircher wrote:
In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.

So thats why my tell on Grey works.
That tell works just about as well as all the other scumtells.
Whats your point here?
It's a pretty much useless "tell".
Can you prove that it's wrong?
Bad assumption.

Mafia have the info advantage and are actually (imo - not necessarily statistically proven) less likely to make aforementioned slips than a player that was town. The mafia care about their image cuz getting lynched is the last thing they want. Town cares much less, especially if vanilla.
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Post Post #786 (isolation #116) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:47 pm

Post by Ircher »

VOTE: Grey
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Post Post #790 (isolation #117) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:49 pm

Post by Ircher »

@Kry

Vote Grey please.
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Post Post #877 (isolation #118) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:12 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 804, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:UNVOTE:

You may be lying but I see no reason to lynch a possible lie if you can fall on your own actions.

If you fake any guilty results on a townie, then we will know you're scum and we got the next days lynch being you.
If you fake any town reads on a scum, well it creates WIFOM about the players alignment but I'm doubting you'd risk connecting yourself to your scum team via night action like that.

If you are cop, and get a guilty then we know how that battle proceeds when its TvS.
If you are cop, and get a townie, then we know a townie.

The only possibility that is bad with keeping you alive is the WIFOMy fake town reads you could produce but that can be expected with any cop.

I see no further reason to push a lynch on you but I'll be straight up, I won't have your trust till D2.
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Post Post #880 (isolation #119) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:19 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 865, Gamma Emerald wrote:I think I have my head out of my ass now. I think optimal play is to leave me alive, AND NO ASCETIC CLAIMS.
No, the ascetics need to claim if they exist.
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Post Post #882 (isolation #120) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:23 am

Post by Ircher »

No, they need to claim.
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Post Post #885 (isolation #121) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:27 am

Post by Ircher »

It doesn't out a PR and knowing who's ascetic decreases the WIFOM involved in night results. Besides, Grey already claimed Cop and there is an 80% chance he's the N1 night kill target if town.

Pedit: Yes, I do.
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Post Post #889 (isolation #122) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:33 am

Post by Ircher »

Which is why I'm surprised Grey isnt Ascetic to stop Follow-the-Cop.
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Post Post #891 (isolation #123) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:36 am

Post by Ircher »

Though, I see it more likely that Gamma is scum with a red herring role.

So, VOTE: Gamma

Pedit: Depends.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #124) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:37 am

Post by Ircher »

How many assumptions does the plan make?
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Post Post #896 (isolation #125) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:44 am

Post by Ircher »

Yes, I'm scum and on purposely broadcasting such.

Don't be silly. I have my ~reasons~.

Pedit: Ok, I'll listen to it.
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Post Post #898 (isolation #126) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:49 am

Post by Ircher »

Ugh....

VOTE: Asphodel
L-2
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Post Post #902 (isolation #127) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:08 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 899, -Grey- wrote:
In post 897, Gamma Emerald wrote:I think it's best to state my plan.
No ascetics claim. If Grey claims a result on an ascetic he gets lynched.
All scum has to do if I get a guilty is claim to be ascetic.

That's brilliant.

No. Guilty claims need to be lynched, period. If the guilty flips town, then obviously I'm scum.
Actually, this^
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Post Post #905 (isolation #128) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:11 am

Post by Ircher »

But Grey's town anyway. I know I'm town. I think Gamma is scum still with a red herring role. And, I could lynch Asphodel or TwoFace rn.
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Post Post #909 (isolation #129) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:17 am

Post by Ircher »

Can we just quicklynch Asphodel?

Pedit: Reasons.
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Post Post #913 (isolation #130) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:23 am

Post by Ircher »

Why?

We need to agree on a lynch (besides certain people ofc), and do it without letting them claim. There has been enough claims today.
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Post Post #916 (isolation #131) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:25 am

Post by Ircher »

Still think its a red herring and therefore a scum role.

Pedit: No more claims. Scum fakeclaim all day long. In the small chance we lynch a PR, well, so be it.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #132) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:25 am

Post by Ircher »

(Aka, be quiet, and do as I say)
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Post Post #920 (isolation #133) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:27 am

Post by Ircher »

Not necessarily. You are missing something, but thats ok cuz you're probs scum.

Pedit: Grey is not fakeclaiming. 95% sure of it.
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Post Post #924 (isolation #134) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:30 am

Post by Ircher »

Okay.

Some things to consider:

1) Why am I acting blatantly anti-town considering I had a decent amount of trust up until this point?
2) Why would I be flashing a neon sign saying "Lynch Me" if I was scum?
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Post Post #925 (isolation #135) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 917, Ircher wrote:(Aka, be quiet, and do as I say)
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Post Post #927 (isolation #136) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:33 am

Post by Ircher »

Terrible? No. Contested? Yes.

Now ask yoursekf why.
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Post Post #932 (isolation #137) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:36 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 930, TwoFace wrote:You're scum or a Terrible player. My money is on scum.
How about neither and you get off your tunnel and reread my iso for a sec. Not skim it, but READ it.
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Post Post #935 (isolation #138) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:38 am

Post by Ircher »

Thats where youre wrong, Gamma.
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Post Post #936 (isolation #139) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:39 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 934, TwoFace wrote:
In post 932, Ircher wrote:
In post 930, TwoFace wrote:You're scum or a Terrible player. My money is on scum.
How about neither and you get off your tunnel and reread my iso for a sec. Not skim it, but READ it.
Nah I'm good.
VOTE: TwoFace
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Post Post #938 (isolation #140) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:39 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 933, Gamma Emerald wrote:Town wouldn't believe my claim and think I'm scum.
It's not close to balanced if that's the case.
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Post Post #941 (isolation #141) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:43 am

Post by Ircher »

We have a claimed Cop and a claimed Ascetic Enabler.

How does Cop + Another PR + 8 VTs vs. Ascetic Enabler + 2 Goons sound not close to balance?

Matrix6's Cop+Doc + 5 VTs vs. Mafia RB + Mafia Goon is pretty closed to balanced. Being closed and a mini, town would have slightly more power than the matrix6 setup.
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Post Post #947 (isolation #142) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:46 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 938, Ircher wrote:
In post 933, Gamma Emerald wrote:Town wouldn't believe my claim and think I'm scum.
It's not close to balanced if that's the case.
Pedit: The RBer exists to stop Follow the Cop with Doc+Cop. There are other roles that can stop Follow-the-Cop including macho, ascetic, jailkeeper, 1-shot strongman, etc.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #143) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:52 am

Post by Ircher »

@Alisae -- Maybe, maybe not, but I'm proving a point. Cop+6 VTs vs 2 Mafia Goons may have been a better example btw.

Pedit: Yes. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I'm thinking.
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Post Post #956 (isolation #144) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:53 am

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But yeah, minis always have a minimum of 2 town prs. It's just to scumsided otherwise; Hoopla/mhsmith0 did an analysis actually on mini normal setup balance awhile back.
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Post Post #958 (isolation #145) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:54 am

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If you are suggesting I haven't given analysis before.......
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Post Post #961 (isolation #146) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:58 am

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I do think I should update my reads as I haven 't done so yet, and its been 10+ or so pages since then. So, I'll do that first.

Pedit: Bad assumption on my part.
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Post Post #967 (isolation #147) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:28 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 965, krylea wrote:963 and 964 are very good posts. I agree with Alisae and 2F, this all looks like excuses to make posts that appear to have content without actually scumhunting. I don't know what your definition of IIoA is Grey, but that pretty much fits mine.
How is 964 a good post?

Readslist is a playstyle thing. Not a scumtell.
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Post Post #968 (isolation #148) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:29 am

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Besudes, TwoFace is guilty of confirmation!bias or being scum.
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Post Post #969 (isolation #149) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:30 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 963, TwoFace wrote:
In post 955, Ircher wrote:@Alisae -- Maybe, maybe not, but I'm proving a point. Cop+6 VTs vs 2 Mafia Goons may have been a better example btw.

Pedit: Yes. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I'm thinking.
You're avoiding scum hunting is what you're doing.

Go look at the archives. 5 games I found have some sort of enabler. Town had 2-4 PRs. Scum had 1-2 PRs.

You don't know enough based on what claims have been made to even remotely come accurate to setup spec (especially with one most likely being fake). The only person in this game who probably could do a proper setups spec would be dashie. Certainly not you, You don't have the chops
:facepalm: :idea:
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Post Post #985 (isolation #150) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:03 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 970, TwoFace wrote:Ircher. Why does your grey read change 180 after he claims? If you're scum reading him before his claim, you should still be scum reading him after.
I'll address this later.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #151) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:04 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 972, TwoFace wrote:
In post 967, Ircher wrote:
In post 965, krylea wrote:963 and 964 are very good posts. I agree with Alisae and 2F, this all looks like excuses to make posts that appear to have content without actually scumhunting. I don't know what your definition of IIoA is Grey, but that pretty much fits mine.
How is 964 a good post?

Readslist is a playstyle thing. Not a scumtell.
Never said it's a scumtell. But reads lists aren't scum hunting. You havent done much if any of that.

You're acting townie without actually being townie
Freaking read my ISO.
Stop misrepping.
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Post Post #987 (isolation #152) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:05 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 974, TwoFace wrote:
In post 970, TwoFace wrote:Ircher. Why does your grey read change 180 after he claims? If you're scum reading him before his claim, you should still be scum reading him after.
Ircher votes grey like 3/4 times.

Then votes Naomi for the slip

Think he votes grey again

Then bam 180, grey is town now.

Votes gamma cause he thinks gamma is lying.

Hops on the aphro train with no explanation at all.

Sure I may be guilty of a little conf bias now, but i became suspicious of ircher way back based on his posts when I had no read on him at all.
No, you've been tunneling me practically the entire game.
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Post Post #988 (isolation #153) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:06 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 977, -Grey- wrote:
In post 968, Ircher wrote:Besudes, TwoFace is guilty of confirmation!bias or being scum.
Which is it?
In post 978, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 968, Ircher wrote:Besudes, TwoFace is guilty of confirmation!bias or being scum.
You're fence sitting...

P-Edit: mini ninja
That, I do not know yet.
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Post Post #989 (isolation #154) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:08 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 984, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I actually can't wait to see it, I got some ideas brainstorming right now and I can think about it over dinner tonight.

Ircher, if you could hook me up with that reads list in like, the next 20 minutes that'd be great
It takes a long while to go through the ISOs.

Unlike TwoFace over here, a GOOD readslist WITH reasons takes a lot of time to make.
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Post Post #1000 (isolation #155) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 997, TwoFace wrote:Why not use =/=?

Well that changed my opinion on one post
Cuz != is one less char and I'm used to it more.
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #156) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:36 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1003, TwoFace wrote:Another question ircher. I just looked through a couple of games and I don't see you making list reads. Why this game is different?
Different strategy. Generally, I just do the notes in a spoiler then make the readslist as a summary.

Pedit: I got 4 people to go. There's been 750 posts since my last one so.....
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Post Post #1018 (isolation #157) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:09 pm

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I dare you to run me up to L-1. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm already L-2 anyway so.....
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Post Post #1025 (isolation #158) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

Spoiler: Reads - Day 1 #1
Confirmed Town
(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
1. Ircher  (100%) - Role PM
2. Grey (99%) - Picking up at with my previous read in mind. The word of advice in reads as town stepping back and reconsidering before continuing a push. was a decent observation of Alisae's behavior around voting and joining wagons. Don't like the instant Gin scumread in very much -- too accusatory versus trying to come to the same conclusion. comes across as a bit too cautious. (Primarily cuz of the "Eh," start) . Grey doesn't make very concessions but he did in which reads townish considering his previous remark in . (Even though I dont know scum!Grey, I'm inclined to believe he'd not give in quite so easily. Possibly a bad assumption on my part). was a good catch even if the slip (still a slip regardless if Naomi is town or scum) is somewhat null. Refusal to reconsider makes seem scum motivated, though this seems to be a thing for Grey. Somewhat hard to believe Grey's comment that he reread my ISO in , but I do see that as genuine read on me at the time. is a weird assumption, but given Grey's claim, it makes some sense to assume. Not sure what to make of -- my vote wasn't extremely serious and more a reaction test. (But, it was late, and I had the misfortune of no more wifi until this afternoon. Cop claim in which I totally buy. The read on Gin in feels new and unsupported, but a lot went on where he focused elsewhere. is bad setup spec imo. Not necessarily alignment-indicative. Definitely town imo at this point.

Likely Town
(85%-97% Confidence)
3. Human Sequencer (92%) - Beginning after . Not sure what to make of - kinda feels Human hasn't really read the thread. Read maybe a few posts here and there, but not the majority. Concur fully w/ the town case for All Alone in . Though looks like a really dumb question, it's actually a decent question cuz Flubber is giving info versus actual analysis and reads. Why do you doubt Gamma's claim (see )? I mean, its alignment is questionable, but the claim fits his earlier behavior. is flawed setup spec (most roles dont know if their action fails). This guy's still town by a long shot.
4. All Alone (88%) - Starting after . disapproves All Alone's point, but it's excusable considering my earlier read. feels a bit too jumpy.... Maybe it's hindsight? The interaction with Alisae feels meh and not really alignment indicative on Alone's side. The case on Asphodel in is well backed and sensible. Biggest complaint really is the small number of posts, but when Alone posts, they are quality posts that read as genuine posts that make sense. Still thinking town here, but I think I might end up paranoid with this slot in the long run.

Leaning Town
(60%-84% Confidence)
5. Alisae (80%) - Starting after . feels too buddy-buddy w/ TwoFace than necessary. Caring too much about self-image in . does not feel authentic -- Pretty sure I haven't seen Asphodel really mentioned a bunch in this ISO. also pings my radar for being a very dumb question that anyone reading the thread critically would know the answer to. (No Offense) is an ok question. The OMGUS in is bad, but is it scum-motivated? is just buzzwords and nothing else -- Gin is not guilty of IoA (well, by your flawed definition, perhaps, but giving info isn't a bad thing, just when its info without any attempt to analyze or very little that its a problem). reads more as confirmation bias than a scum agenda tbh. probably confirms my suspicion -- Alisae considers stepping back but cant quite manage to focus elsewhere. is prob. a good indicator for town. My assumption is scum!Alisae would be more jumpy at such a comment. is again OMGUS in disguise; this is starting to become a personality tell. I kinda feel is a weak response to Naomi's way out, but meh, I'd prob. do something similar given the chance. feels important, but it prob. be better if I didn't elaborate here. Nvm -- see . is just bad logic as that scumtell works just as much as the information scumtell. is confusing, but feels more authentic than the previous readslist. The person referenced in is unfortunately wrong as universal scumtells just never work. (One-Size-NEVER-Fits-ALL) feels legitimate to ask. Overall, this reads as self-conscious town.
6. Naomi-Tan (+65%) - Guess I'm starting after here. Serious Q -- Are you being facetious in ? What was your read on Grey and me after making ? is a good readslist imo. reads really town to me -- scum care, town don't. Starting to see what Naomi said for her introduction (and that's a good thing). was a slip regardless of alignment, but that doesn't necessary mean Naomi is scum. Town "slip" all the time cuz they're less cautious. gives an associative tell if either flips scum. Why did you feel the need to requite me in ? (Not that it was necessarily a bad thing, I just wanna know why). Yeah, I kinda glazed through a lot of posts cuz they were hard to read, but I think the assessment during her intro is very accurate, so she's probs town.

Null
(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
7. Rainbowdash (+20%) - is null (but I somewhat disagree w/ the perspective). makes logical sense. Setup spec in (null). feels off, but I think I'm biased. More setup spec throughout. Really hard to get a read here.

Neutral
(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
8. TwoFace (+42%) - Last one, this time, we're starting after . To be honest, reads as confirmation bias. is a weird and clearly scum-motivated remark. Townies don't ignore their scumreads; they work with them. Scum ignore their "scumreads" so as to discredit them and plead innocent when a mislynch occurs. Also, TwoFace never explained why he couldn't trust Human. (Conflicting Views does not mean either of your views are wrong). The follow up in reads anti-town behavior versus scum motivation though. as town trying to come to a common understanding w/ his target. reads as genuine frustration. is a scummy misrep as reads can change. Grey made it pretty clear (despite not explicitly) that he had reevaluated. reads as arrogant town who
thinks
they've caught scum. reads as fake considering the answer is in the quote. is tbh a sign towards town. Looking through, reads mostly as confirmation biased town, but it's hard to tell at first glance cuz there's a lot of other scummy stuff that TwoFace has done in addition.
9. Krylea (+40%) - is a good first impression. is meh -- think he should've read but not really a thing I see scum doing versus lazyish town. reads as a genuine response to Grey's Q. is blatant misrep, though I feel this is misguided/biased town versus scum. Eh, was unexpected and felt like it came from scum. Peer pressure? Yeah, I'm realky mixed here, good intro but feels like Kry is sheeping more than anything tbh. Easily manipulated seems the best way to put it.
10. TheRealGin-N-Tonic (-45%) - So, picking up after . would be fine except I don't see how Gin can be null on Alisae at the time he posted that. also reads strange to me. (Mainly the 3rd paragraph's accusatory tone). reads as naivety and inexperienced player tell. My response to is that daytalk is pretty common and only doesn't exist in the newbie queue due to the greater skill gap in every game and balance reasons. Pretty sure was a L-1 vote. seems like a pointless question to ask. It also reads as shade-throwing and fluff. In response to : And? Fence-sitting just like sheeping is not a scumtell. Don't try to use it as such. -- Logical fallancies abound! Seriously, there are more than 2 possibilities here. Not everything is black and white. is a VERY suspicious 180 you did. There's 3x as many posts to consider this time. This slot does not read town, but it doesn't read as scummy as some of othe other slots.

Leaning Scum
(60%-75% Confidence)
11. Flubbernugget (-65%) - makes me roll my eyes. What do you mean "starting to look more like scum hunting than it did before" in ? Did you scumread the interaction earlier? (I'm assuming you're NOT referring to the earlier semantics thing). What's your point in ? is a horrible demand and prob. a logical fallancy. is also a fluff post. feels too accusatory. It also feels that Flubber looked at the post for like 500 milliseconds then decided to jump on it. Too much fluff imo and not enough analysis. Some things are stated matter-of-fact but they seem to be just that -- info. Not feeling good about this slot.
12. Asphodel (-70%) - Continuing after where I left off last time. The "test" from and the subsequent analysis in feels... not right. I think Asphodel was too set on trying to prove me as having a fake read (a bit stretched read? definitely! fake? not really) but in the end, the end resukt wasn't what Asphodel expected. What I don't know is Asphodel'send read on me after this -- feels like it could've gone both ways and is ambiguous. reads super faked and on purposely done to get towncred. Some of the later posts like look a good deal better. is pretty suspicious looking like he just cant bring himself to make a case on someone he
knows
is town (cuz he's scum).

Likely Scum
(76%-100% Confidence)
13. Gamma (-80%) - Resuming after with this. Gonna evaluate the truthfulness of , cuz a lot of posts are null / about his (future) claim. is a non-sensical Q --> blank quotes generally express agreement. is a bit too far. Not sure where came -- a bit defensive much? is pure WIFOM. is also overly defensive when it's been like 100+ posts since Sequencer asked you stuff and you never responded. (More than enough time). feels fake as well -- elaborate. In response to -- you never stated how it felt more honest. is clear shade-throwing without just cause. is more a demand rather than cooperative request. feels hypocritical -- if that's your philosophy, explain your Grey and TwoFace reads in-depth. is some kind of logical fallancy and totally uncooperative. (You assume Grey holds himself a low standard of play. Really, cant express what I'm thinking in words right now). is an authentic claim imo. reads like a chainsaw or something except Alisae is town imo. is truthfully a weird scum move. is once more doubt-casting just-to-doubtcast cuz I'm sire Gamma w/ over 5k posts understands what a breadcrumb is. Reads as scum considering Gamma!/ experience and the amount of shade-casting being conducted.


Fyi, this was 3x as much work as the previous. Be patient.
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Post Post #1026 (isolation #159) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:26 pm

Post by Ircher »

Eh, that should say #2
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Post Post #1027 (isolation #160) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:27 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1024, krylea wrote:Oh LyLo/MyLo is different obviously.

People talk all the time about quickhammers/derphammers, but they really don't seem that common. The only times I've seen them in all the games I've read through on this site have been scum faking an accidental hammer. Like, unless you know there's a VI in the game, I would assume that noone is going to be THAT stupid.

Maybe its just because I'm relatively new though, I guess maybe they could happen more often than I realize.
Some players do lolhammer. It's more common than you think.
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Post Post #1028 (isolation #161) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:28 pm

Post by Ircher »

VOTE: Gamma
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Post Post #1031 (isolation #162) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:31 pm

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Read the freaking post.
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Post Post #1197 (isolation #163) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:13 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1046, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 779, Rainbowdash wrote:"Hey look at me, im a miller and this is a convenient breadcrumb"
Im a cheeky pony and I freaking love it.

Yeah im claiming miller. It why I specifically asked about the type of result that he would get since my role is a bit vague regarding it, but heavily implies that he would be getting guilty/not guilty instead of mafia as he suggested.

Now your immediate thought may be as to why I question a cop when my role implies it and there are a few things that I have been thinking as to why I am pretty sure he is lying about this that don't have to do with result wording. In a bit of a spoiler alert, I think there is a better chance that he is fakeclaiming town than a cop.

1) His immediate thought of "we lynch any guilty or 'no result' D2". This is first implies he would be alive which if he is a cop... why does he think this really, especially when he has continually pushed for a fact that there is "no RB" in the game. The assumption that there is no RB is a little interesting, as a RB is a usually a scum counter for a role. The presence of Gamma doesn't increase or decrease the chance for there to be a RB unless the ascetic is scum in which case it dramatically. Either way, what is the worst case for him as scum? Call a guilty on a player like me or another somewhat hard lynch and end up not pulling it off? Best case he got out of D1 lynch, easy D2 lynch and scum is way up.

2) The game he kept referring to he claimed cop in and completely left that out of his reason for crumbing. Its why I have this really bad gut feeling that he might be VT and is completely screwing with us and I am either a red herring role or there is a real cop who was smart and kept their mouth shut. If he is going to refer to a game he claimed cop in (even as not cop) how do you NOT link that into your claim? I had no idea what Gamma was going on about early, but figured it had to be something role related since I couldn't see any play reason to make that link.

3) Ascetic. As I already stated, that is a way to weaken a role far more often than not. What else is Gamma effecting? I don't think he can be a red herring since that would be a massive curveball by the mod. Throw in a very rare role (enabler) and then give it an ever more rare modifier (ascetic) and then make it useless? Doubt it. He has to be playing some part in this game, and scum having that modifier makes little sense as it doesn't really benefit them in any way, even if an ideal situation occurs (like cop targets ascetic) as its not a clear, just a "there might be a RB" and if Gamma claimed would likely get them lynched. So its probably a town modifier, and it pretty much would only work on something like a cop. Its why I kept trying to push just incase he was lying and was a more believable one shot or something.

Not as much on a direct correlation, but a PR claim D1 is a bit more likely from scum than from town. Town wont (shouldn't) fake claim as VT. Scum who are going to be lynched without a PR claim will claim a PR at a higher frequency than exist in the game. Its not big, but it more works counter to this. A VT claim is disproportionally likely to come from town D1 when it the first player ran up.

Anyways tl;dr

My role wording, him setting up ideal scum resolutions and assuming he will be around D2 to execute it, ignoring what seems like what would be an obvious cop breadcrumb from somepony who was planning it, ascetic not really balancing with a full cop.... I think he is scum.

Really I think there is a better chance he is a VT who saw this work once and now tries to do anti-town play than he is a real cop. Either way I needed to claim here because I basically wreck a scum claim, become basic conf-town due to it and am a role that isn't even a threat to scum. That's a win-win in my book since they have to take me out or hunt other roles.

Lets lynch him now please and thank you. That was not cop play. That was somepony trying to act like a cop.
Theres no way you are miller with an Ascetic Enabler around.
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Post Post #1198 (isolation #164) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:18 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1054, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1051, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:I almost want to say Ircher supersaturates my scumdar to the point where he does a full circle around the meter and is back to being townie.
No, don't fall into this trap.
More shade throwing.
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #165) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:20 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1059, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 1049, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Rainbow: if you believe me about my claim Ircher should be scummy to you.
As odd as it may seem given what I am currently pushing, I tend to pride myself more on town read than on scum reads. If you have ever seen me play I will absolutely defend somepony I think is town to no end when I read them as town, even if that's not a popular read I am usually able to get them off the block. I was reading Ircher as one of my strongest town reads for quite a while, so this sudden descent of him is giving me fits since I don't know if he actually is just confused about what is going on or had happened to luck into hitting a few of my town tells in the early game.

Really im not sure if he just doesn't understand that the only way I really think you are scum is if you are ungodly creative with that role claim/are true claiming as scum and ascetic is scum or there is none. Its hard to sometimes judge since your role really is that rare.... in easily over 100 games here this is maybe the third time I have seen this role pop up.

Removed from your claim, you would be more of a null read to me, but that claim I don't see being fabricated, and if you had the guts to claim that as scum more power to you. That's really the only reason I have you as solid town here.

Either way, my vote is VERY firmly planted. I don't see Grey as town. As said already, I see him as more likely VT who tired to get cute than cop here.

@Ircher - Explain the scum motivation for Gamma to claim what he did for me.
I think he 's trueclaiming as scum.

And, I changed my mind about the miller claim -- its a possibility.
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Post Post #1202 (isolation #166) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:23 am

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In post 1069, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1068, Human Sequencer wrote:If the answer is yes we have three confirmed townies on day 1 (four if you count me for outting it).
Not answering will be taken as a no.
OUTING THAT IS NOT TOWNY YOU IDIOT
Scum Gamma -- The Cop already claimed.
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Post Post #1203 (isolation #167) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:25 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1078, krylea wrote:
In post 1062, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1058, krylea wrote:
In post 1056, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1055, krylea wrote:Yeah. Ircher is still scum, and we're still lynching him. But this shit with Grey comes first.
Threat instead of actually addressing my post.
I'm not addressing your post because it's dumb. I'm not going to get sidetracked into defending every post I've ever made against you flailing trying not to get lynched.
No, you can't defend yourself because I'm fucking right and you know it.

I'm not getting lynched today, Brony boy can take his bullshit and eat it in the corner.
Buddy, like half your case on me is from the first post I made off brief impressions when I was halfway through the thread. This is pure bluster.

In post 1075, -Grey- wrote:
In post 1064, Gamma Emerald wrote:Like, I personally have an issue since we have BOTH Ascetics and Millers.
Also, RD should not have claimed FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS Ascetics should not.
I don't for a second believe the Miller claim and Brony needs to die by MyLo -1.
I believe RD's claim waaaay more than I believe yours. The only reason I ever wanted to leave you alive is because we could test your claim later. Now we don't even need to do that.

VOTE: Grey

We're coming back to Ircher later though, you bet your ass on that. And HS, I still want to hear from you why you think Ircher is town.
Gamma's scummate confirmed it seems.
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Post Post #1204 (isolation #168) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:26 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1080, -Grey- wrote:Ascetic(s) + Miller vs
x-shot
cop?

I DON'T FUCKING THINK SO
Me neither.
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Post Post #1205 (isolation #169) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:27 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1086, Human Sequencer wrote:Grey didn't switch anything up. Grey posted that he -was- leaving something out. His story is consistent start to finish.
This.

All Alone and Human Sequencer are the voices of reason this game.
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Post Post #1206 (isolation #170) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:29 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1091, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why do people think onle ONE ascetic can exist? I'm p sure there's more.
Cuz I highly dpubt it.

This setup makes zero sense from my standpoint -- the cop feels utterly useless.
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Post Post #1207 (isolation #171) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1105, Rainbowdash wrote:
krylea wrote:
In post 1086, Human Sequencer wrote:Grey didn't switch anything up. Grey posted that he -was- leaving something out. His story is consistent start to finish.
No it isn't. Grey clearly implied that the missing piece of his role had some natural connection with another player - he specifically mentioned a counterpart. X-shot does not have a natural connection with another player, unless he is
still leaving things out
.
*ding ding ding*

What is the counterpart to a cop? Miller.
What is the counterpart to a X-Shot Cop? Still Miller.

Two X-Shot Cops is going to be a massively townsided setup because you get two N1 investigations. You can have a backup/deputy but why would he think im trying to counter with that?

Grey probably has me pegged as miller and is getting bailed out by HS here.
No, two X-Shot Cops is prob. a scum-sided setup in a mini depending on what X is.
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Post Post #1208 (isolation #172) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:39 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1146, All Alone wrote:VOTE: Rainbowdash

Not buying the miller claim. Two negative-utility roles is unheard of in a mini normal, and I'm pretty sure RBD has been around long enough to know that. I think if she was really a miller, she'd have shown a
lot
more reservation about Gamma's ascetic enabler claim than she has.
This too.
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Post Post #1209 (isolation #173) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:41 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1149, Rainbowdash wrote:I want each player voting me to state that no matter WHAT Grey claims D2 you lynch him. If he claims a guilty. You lynch him. If he claims and inno. You lynch him. If he claims he got Ascetic. You lynch him.
No. No. No.

If there is no kill D2 we DONT lynch Grey.
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Post Post #1212 (isolation #174) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:46 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1161, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 1159, Alisae wrote:
In post 1158, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 1095, Alisae wrote:Yeaaaah. I dunno who the fuck I want to lynch now.
All I know is that it's not Human Sequencer, it's not Naomi, and it certainly ain't Gamma.

I don't like this pony tho.
I feel like the only alignment to try to not believe the cop claim is scum.
VOTE: RainbowDash
No cop is kinda a safe red claim. You already know who Green are and can then start confirming people who are middle teir before shooting them off the next night or confirming a Pr as they get killed. Given you know who red and green are and where reds NK goes you could easily do stuff like this;

Fake Cop Target Gamma. (with either roleblock or Rolecop)
Killer Target Gamma.

Suddenly you have a watcher/tracker confirming You targeted the killed. With someone else. You say you copped them to confirm their role and the other person flips red. Suddenly you've outted a tracker/watcher PR and Confirmed your Fake PR to the rest of town. Given that you can then easily start offing people. starting with the investigative role that confirmed you and moving on to the rest of town. For bonus points have your remaining red buddy claim nurse and no kill one night (prob the first night) and when mass roleclaim comes you have a confirmed Doc and Cop on reds team. Its classic XD

But yeah Cop super safe as long as there isn't a second cop in the game Your pretty much safe.
I'm not thinking that because of what he said about cops. I'm thinking it because of what he said about Asectics.
TBH I've sorta given up trying to meta out this game balance. Its all janky IMO
It will make more sense in due time I do believe.
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Post Post #1213 (isolation #175) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:48 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1173, Human Sequencer wrote:The situation between Grey and Rainbowdash will not resolve itself. Everybody not on one of those wagons is either on a vanity wagon or not explaining why they read them both as town well enough. One of them must go today and I believe it must be Rainbowdash.
As scummy as Rainbow's claim seems to be, I'm really having doubts there.
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Post Post #1214 (isolation #176) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:50 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1174, Asphodel wrote:
In post 874, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 46, Asphodel wrote: Self-meta-ing a little bit from my games on the other site,
I very rarely, if ever try to push for my partners to be lynched as scum.
That's for a few reasons. It was a pretty tight-knit group over there, and there was no cardflip in many of the games. Like, over a span of 20 or so scum games, I remember the single time I voted for a scum partner, and even that doesn't really count because my partner made a really terrible counterclaim. That's not to say I never scumread my partners, I just avoided seriously putting my vote on them because 48 hours is not a very long time.
A red flip will be V interesting. I'm confused as to why, as town, you'd be saying that or really anything regarding how you play as red?
I like the conclusion that because there is no day chat, this is his form of telling his partners he won't be pushing them if they get sus.
Was hoping to get towncred upon the first scum cardflip if it was a lynch I pushed hard for. Thought it was a reasonable thing to do given Naomi's similar post at the start of the game, and this wasn't something I wanted to try to have to argue after the fact. Honestly I'm not sure I could bus a partner. Luckily I drew a town role so it's not something I'd have to worry about.
In post 875, All Alone wrote:
In post 850, Asphodel wrote:So I've still got a vote on Ircher.
I don't like this. In my experience scum are more likely to just "suddenly remember" who they're voting than town. Outside of RVS, it's very unlikely that a townie forgets who they're voting for in the first place.
In post 850, Asphodel wrote:I do think there have been a lot of things he's done that look pretty scummy, but my suspicion of him has been mitigated by
In post 676, Ircher wrote:Also:

Ascetic should claim now. Failure to do so is an auto-lynch in the future should you be proven to be an ascetic.
which I feel is a risky post coming from scum.
What even is this. Ircher's post here isn't really risky, it's just standard play when town wants a claim. I really can't see a townie who was genuinely skeptical of Ircher dropping that skepticism because of this post.
In post 850, Asphodel wrote:So I'll vote VOTE: Flubbernugget who I've actually liked more the more I've seen from him, but whose original vote on the me wagon along with his strange intro make me suspicious.
I don't like this either. I don't see a town motive for voting someone, and then immediately following it up with a punch-pull like that. When townies vote, regardless of whether it's for lynching, pressure, information, or even just spite, they usually want that vote to have the maximum possible effect. The immediate punch-pull comes off like Asphodel isn't motivated by any of those things. Scums are mush more happy to avoid getting into a fight, and I think that's exactly why Asphodel worded his Flubber vote this way.

I'll gladly lynch either Alisae or Asphodel today, they both read very scummy to me.
I wasn't suddenly remembering that I had a vote on Ircher--I was planning on shifting my vote to Naomi anyways. When that suspicion unraveled, I had the option to change my vote or to not change my vote. My vote on Ircher wasn't doing much anymore so I decided to change it.

I think asking for ascetic claims is a bold move if Ircher's scum. Rolefishing is a pretty common thing that scum get rung up for. He's also forcing himself and maybe potential scum partners to stake a claim on whether or not they're ascetic, which is risky because if he's scum he probably doesn't know what town roles are out there. Like what if the only ascetics are scum?

The town motive for voting someone and immediately reducing its effect is to be honest. Last night I put a lot of work into the Naomi case, only to have it unravel. Flubbernugget was a residual suspicion I'd had from earlier stuff, and I didn't see anything recent that was particularly suspicious. It was a case that I'd already laid out earlier. Leaving my vote on Ircher wasn't doing much good, and my suspicion on him had (at the time) been fading. So I thought maybe shifting my vote could get me some more posts from Flubbernugget, who's been fairly quiet this game.
In post 913, Ircher wrote:Why?

We need to agree on a lynch (besides certain people ofc), and do it without letting them claim. There has been enough claims today.
This is bad play from scum or town. Town should want that info either way. Scum or town should not want to advocate for anti-town positions openly.
In post 924, Ircher wrote:Okay.

Some things to consider:

1) Why am I acting blatantly anti-town considering I had a decent amount of trust up until this point?
2) Why would I be flashing a neon sign saying "Lynch Me" if I was scum?
Why would you do these things as town?

Going to sort out the RD-Grey thing in the upcoming readslist.
Gambiting and other reasons.
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Post Post #1215 (isolation #177) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:51 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1179, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1025, Ircher wrote:To be honest, 455 reads as confirmation bias.
I don't think you know what confirmation bias is. When you catch somebody making a mistake and they don't admit they made one, that changes it from a mistake to a lie. Refusing to admit the mistake and apologize is scum motivated, not town motivated.
I believe I meant your post not the post you quoted or whatever.
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Post Post #1216 (isolation #178) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:54 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1185, TwoFace wrote:Ircher. Are you a havingfitz alt?
Not an alt. Alts arent allowed as newbies in the newbie queue.
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Post Post #1219 (isolation #179) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:56 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1187, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So here is where I'm perplexed.

RainbowDash, under no pressure, no one voting her, declares that she
knows
Grey is hiding about something that literally no other player thought of. We then go on to her revealing she's Miller. Now, as RD!town, I can see the play being that she thinks she caught scum fakeclaiming. As RD!scum, I see no real reason as to why RD would feel the need to go under an assumption that Grey would be more than a general cop and hope she got it completely right with a miller on the off chance that it get's Grey Mislynched;
Not forgetting to take into consideration that as RD!scum, she could have simply kept her mouth shut about it and killed him that night instead of setting up this 1v1 where either X or Y is apparently scum.

So logically, I'm reading RD!town because I don't see the motivation to do all this as scum.

As for Grey, ya'll know my opinion that I don't fuck with a cop claim early on and won't lynch till D2 or so on. The vibe I'm picking up from him being readily knowledgeable about the specifications of his roles makes my gut tell me he's town. Also the sort of general cockiness showed early on feels like a new player with a sense of bravado because he got a PR role and he knows he's special.

I shit you not I'm thinking this whole thing could be a TvT

and with Asphodel telling me him lynching a scum would push for town cred, essentially being a trust tell, I don't buy it for shit and I'm willing to spend today focusing much more on him than on the cop/miller situation.
I think Krylae is the right lynch and we all hypoclaim who'd we cop before going into the night.
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Post Post #1222 (isolation #180) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:00 am

Post by Ircher »

I think it could be TvT with 2 unclaimed town prs.
VOTE: Krylea

Left.

@Grey -- I'd rather lynch Krylea first
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Post Post #1226 (isolation #181) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:04 am

Post by Ircher »

Fine.
VOTE: Rainbow
L-1
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Post Post #1227 (isolation #182) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:05 am

Post by Ircher »

Though it could just be very flawed setup spec imo.
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Post Post #1232 (isolation #183) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:15 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1004, Rainbowdash wrote:@Grey -
Last chance to add anything else to your claim that you may have been missing.


Im still convinced grey is scum and he is caught for both game actions he hasn't realized yet and something else that im not going to say until he responds to this just incase he decided to leave out something critical in his claim because there is some stuff that doesn't add up.
In post 806, Rainbowdash wrote:I am fairly confident that's BS.

I don't want a real cop countering him
right now. For time being and hopefully to make this far easier, what type of results do you get:
Guilty/Not Guilty or Mafia/Not Mafia
.
In post 1046, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 779, Rainbowdash wrote:"Hey look at me, im a miller and this is a convenient breadcrumb"
Im a cheeky pony and I freaking love it.

Yeah im claiming miller. It why I specifically asked about the
type of result
that he would get since my role is a bit vague regarding it, but heavily implies that he would be
getting guilty/not guilty
instead of mafia as he suggested.

Now your immediate thought may be as to why I question a cop when my role implies it and there are a few things that I have been thinking as to why I am pretty sure he is lying about this that don't have to do with result wording. In a bit of a spoiler alert, I think there is a better chance that he is fakeclaiming town than a cop.

1) His immediate thought of "we lynch any guilty or 'no result' D2". This is first implies he would be alive which if he is a cop... why does he think this really, especially when he has continually pushed for a fact that there is "no RB" in the game. The assumption that there is no RB is a little interesting, as a RB is a usually a scum counter for a role. The presence of Gamma doesn't increase or decrease the chance for there to be a RB unless the ascetic is scum in which case it dramatically. Either way, what is the worst case for him as scum? Call a guilty on a player like me or another somewhat hard lynch and end up not pulling it off? Best case he got out of D1 lynch, easy D2 lynch and scum is way up.

2) The game he kept referring to he claimed cop in and completely left that out of his reason for crumbing. Its why I have this really bad gut feeling that he might be VT and is completely screwing with us and I am either a red herring role or there is a real cop who was smart and kept their mouth shut. If he is going to refer to a game he claimed cop in (even as not cop) how do you NOT link that into your claim? I had no idea what Gamma was going on about early, but figured it had to be something role related since I couldn't see any play reason to make that link.

3) Ascetic. As I already stated, that is a way to weaken a role far more often than not. What else is Gamma effecting? I don't think he can be a red herring since that would be a massive curveball by the mod. Throw in a very rare role (enabler) and then give it an ever more rare modifier (ascetic) and then make it useless? Doubt it. He has to be playing some part in this game, and scum having that modifier makes little sense as it doesn't really benefit them in any way, even if an ideal situation occurs (like cop targets ascetic) as its not a clear, just a "there might be a RB" and if Gamma claimed would likely get them lynched. So its probably a town modifier, and it pretty much would only work on something like a cop. Its why I kept trying to push just incase he was lying and was a more believable one shot or something.

Not as much on a direct correlation, but a PR claim D1 is a bit more likely from scum than from town. Town wont (shouldn't) fake claim as VT. Scum who are going to be lynched without a PR claim will claim a PR at a higher frequency than exist in the game. Its not big, but it more works counter to this. A VT claim is disproportionally likely to come from town D1 when it the first player ran up.

Anyways tl;dr

My role wording, him setting up ideal scum resolutions and assuming he will be around D2 to execute it, ignoring what seems like what would be an obvious cop breadcrumb from somepony who was planning it, ascetic not really balancing with a full cop.... I think he is scum.

Really I think there is a better chance he is a VT who saw this work once and now tries to do anti-town play than he is a real cop. Either way I needed to claim here because I basically wreck a scum claim, become basic conf-town due to it and am a role that isn't even a threat to scum. That's a win-win in my book since they have to take me out or hunt other roles.

Lets lynch him now please and thank you. That was not cop play. That was somepony trying to act like a cop.
I think Raibow is being genuine.

She doubted your claim from the start and while scum have more incentive to do so, I can still see town doing that. She asks about the results which is critical imo because she seems to have a flawed understanding of the wording. If I were to take a guess, if Rainbow was a true miller, it is probably worded "You investigate as guilty to an investigative" which is the proper wording imo. On the other hand, the Cop pm makes sense as "Mafia/Not Mafia" because the results aren't a universal cop whereas miller tends to be a universal guilty for role investigatives. Is it a bad push? I definitely think so. But I feel that this isn't a fake push just to make you look bad, just a different vantage point and beliefs.

Pedit: Krylea reads as less genuine than Rainbowdash btw. He just doubtcasts your claim without even giving an inch of reasoning why.
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Post Post #1233 (isolation #184) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:18 am

Post by Ircher »

Though, with 3 prs claimed and a likely 4th unclaimed, I'm starting to get suspicious of too many claims.
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Post Post #1234 (isolation #185) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:18 am

Post by Ircher »

The NRG are against role madness and too many named townies.
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Post Post #1236 (isolation #186) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:21 am

Post by Ircher »

Whatever. Someone hammer please.
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #187) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:19 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1303, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 985, Ircher wrote:
In post 970, TwoFace wrote:Ircher. Why does your grey read change 180 after he claims? If you're scum reading him before his claim, you should still be scum reading him after.
I'll address this later.
On one hand TwoFace is making a really bad push here

On the other hand it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to respond to this
Basically cuz I addressed it in my later post and didn't feel like stating it at that instant just to restate it later.
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Post Post #1316 (isolation #188) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:22 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 1314, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1080, -Grey- wrote:Ascetic(s) + Miller vs
x-shot
cop?

I DON'T FUCKING THINK SO
I could think of a few ways this would work
I don't.
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Post Post #1365 (isolation #189) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1363, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 807, -Grey- wrote:
In post 806, Rainbowdash wrote:what type of results do you get: Guilty/Not Guilty or Mafia/Not Mafia.
Eenie meenie minie
Mafia/Not Mafia


Am I right?
A Miller that knows they are a Miller and flips as such is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Miller returns a
guilty
result if investigated by a Cop, "Miller" if investigated by a Role Cop, and "non-Vanilla" to a Vanilla Cop.

So the wiki says that's what shows up under normal guidelines
Your point? Pretty sure I already covered this anyway....
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Post Post #1371 (isolation #190) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:39 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1368, Alisae wrote:
In post 1367, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Excuse me for using the wiki for shit I don't know about and quite honestly I'll believe a wiki over a player
The wiki is outdated.
Not imo.

But this is more of a (no offense) comprehension failure than anything.
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Post Post #1375 (isolation #191) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:07 pm

Post by Ircher »

Gin, just hammer already.
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Post Post #1385 (isolation #192) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:20 pm

Post by Ircher »

@Gin
UNVOTE:

I'm willing to hammer instead.
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Post Post #1390 (isolation #193) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:24 pm

Post by Ircher »

Its called compromise Gin.

This day needs to end asap.
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Post Post #1395 (isolation #194) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:28 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 1392, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:So why we do rush the day?
Cuz it's antitown not to rn.
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #195) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:29 pm

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It's that or we might as well massclaim.
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Post Post #1398 (isolation #196) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:31 pm

Post by Ircher »

We've already have 4 pr claims. Prob. wouldn't hurt to out a few more (well, exceot a protective role....)
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #197) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:34 pm

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Someone votes RD or we massclaim.

Pedit: Ty
VOTE: Rainbow
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Post Post #1404 (isolation #198) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:36 pm

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90% of D1 lynches are on town. (Dont quote me on that). This day needed to end. Dont fret too much Gin.
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Post Post #1406 (isolation #199) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:39 pm

Post by Ircher »

Pretty sure I hammered. 95% sure.
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