Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

[Alisae]

Why do you think this vote without conviction is more red than other votes without conviction that have happened this game?

Have you expressed this sentiment (voting w/o conviction is scummy) in any previous games?

First question I don't really understand what your asking. If you're asking me why I think it's scummy, I think that all votes when they are casted matter and quite frankly say "I think this person is scummy" unless it's RVS, then it's to apply pressure. We're also way out of RVS now.
Gin was probably trying to see how I would respond under pressure.
But I think that's something that moreso applies later within the day.

Also I when I voted All Alone I believed that they are scum and I still kinda do.

As for the 2nd question, I don't understand how I'm supposed to answer this.

[Alisae]

Also @Asphodel, don't talk about my ongoing games please. I think that's against site rules, is it not?

[Naomi-Tan]

Asphodel - I'm putting your question aside for now. As I'm playing with a friend and don't have the time to write out the few paragraphs it will take. So for now I will say by the time I stepped into defend them I already had a green read on them

[Asphodel]

can we not bring it back?

[Alisae]

can we not bring it back?

This makes me want to, but I'm comfortable on the All Alone wagon. After all, I'm probably going to be All Alone on it. Like the majority of my life. All Alone.

[Flubbernugget]

I think Alisae's self-conciousness is more likely to come from self-doubting town rather than scum. This is backed up by her lack of confidence in her own read on Gin.

Did you consider that possibility, Grey?

That's actually a fair point.

If I remember the interactions correctly, you seem to have dismissed a decent proportion of your scum read on alisae here

[Flubbernugget]

given that Reds have no day talk

How do you know this?

its not in the rules so Im assuming.

"given" is not an assumption, it's a statement of fact.

VOTE: Naomi

You slipped hard.

That's not a slip, town has done it before.

This is probably where my vote is going after my catch-up. A citation would be nice

[Flubbernugget]

Gamma is hoping for the town credit when Naomi flips town, and is trying to set up another mislynch for D2.

VOTE: Gamma

You have too many ducks in a row here

[Alisae]

Holy shit Flubber I think you just caught Scum!-Grey-
VOTE: -Grey-

[Alisae]

Actually Gamma did. Flubber just pointed me in a direction of something that I missed.

[Flubbernugget]

Subject: Mini Normal 1841 - At The End... (GAME OVER)

scum have an encryptor

This is past experience with daytalk spec. My reaction was not to go "scumslip you know too much", it was to question the statement and see if it came from scum.

Dunnstral was in a neighborhood. Possible info leak there

Also, this was the entierety of his post. If that was buried in a wall of text I would be more inclined to believe it was a slip. This was pretty obvious setup spec.

[Flubbernugget]

Okay lets get stop Alisae killing themselves.

Alisae - Okay I know your prob reading this and have gone quiet as you don't know what to make of things. but you should not join my wagon. If you join right now and I flip green they will go back to hounding you and if I flip red they will say that you are my red buddy and joined late as you couldn't see me talking my way out of things and want the green credit.

More buddying and coaching in-thread. Not a good sign after your earlier "slip".

Pet peeve of mine

I don't get this coaching scum tell

I've never once played as scum and seen someone try to guide me how to play in thread. And I have an extremely weak scum game. I can't recall any other time this tell has caught scum either

[Asphodel]

yeah how do you know that?

Jumped out to me as opportunistic. Later Gamma said he thought Grey's reaction was worse than TF's. I disagree. This post screams "I don't want to be quiet when all this goes down" to me. Wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a Naomi x TF scumteam, regardless of whether Naomi slipped.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64916
Day 1 of this shows a town white-knight. They dont go constantly go back and forth on reads and give in whenever it feels it's convenient; they stick with it as AlwaysInnocent did with me in the linked game.

I don't like this at all from Ircher. Ircher's cherry picking an example that's not even Naomi and using it as proof that Naomi can't be town because she's not acting like someone else did.

Okay lets get stop Alisae killing themselves.

Alisae - Okay I know your prob reading this and have gone quiet as you don't know what to make of things. but you should not join my wagon. If you join right now and I flip green they will go back to hounding you and if I flip red they will say that you are my red buddy and joined late as you couldn't see me talking my way out of things and want the green credit.

Naomi, why are you reaching out to Alisae in particular with this post?

[Flubbernugget]

Once krylea seems caught up enough you all will know what the fuck my deal has been this game.

Just tell us already.
Keeping it secret is just so stupid.

Do you think scum knows 100% what Gamma is doing? I know I don't.

[Flubbernugget]

Naomi what does the interaction between me and gin tell you about the both of us?
Like, I dunno if Gin just really doesn't know how to handle pressure and he's townie because he seems genuinely frustrated or if he's scum.
Like, I think this might be his first game on site as well tho.

I actually see you poorly handling pressure

How does this affect your read on Alisae?

Probably scum

[Flubbernugget]

Qutie frankly I am calm, collected, and tired. Not freaking out. Press my buttons a bit and I can do that.

Either way, your voting is...I believe the right term is wishywashy?
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Dude I miss the evidence for this?

I said I blatantly sheep voted her to get a reaction, it worked nonetheless but I'm scum for reaction testing on D1 lol

In the heat of the moment, it felt like a TvT but I haven't been at home to the point where I can actually take notes on it.

You unvoted went to sleep woke up to post but I don't see the vote back

[Flubbernugget]

So when Naomi flips scum, grey is possible buddy. To remove a vote off confirmed scum makes no sense from town pov

Ftr I see Naomi's slip as damning but not confirming

[Flubbernugget]

Made it to 26 27 is next

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah how do you know that?

Jumped out to me as opportunistic. Later Gamma said he thought Grey's reaction was worse than TF's. I disagree. This post screams "I don't want to be quiet when all this goes down" to me. Wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a Naomi x TF scumteam, regardless of whether Naomi slipped.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64916
Day 1 of this shows a town white-knight. They dont go constantly go back and forth on reads and give in whenever it feels it's convenient; they stick with it as AlwaysInnocent did with me in the linked game.

I don't like this at all from Ircher. Ircher's cherry picking an example that's not even Naomi and using it as proof that Naomi can't be town because she's not acting like someone else did.

Okay lets get stop Alisae killing themselves.

Alisae - Okay I know your prob reading this and have gone quiet as you don't know what to make of things. but you should not join my wagon. If you join right now and I flip green they will go back to hounding you and if I flip red they will say that you are my red buddy and joined late as you couldn't see me talking my way out of things and want the green credit.

Naomi, why are you reaching out to Alisae in particular with this post?

I just got her out of trouble and she had the chance to put herself back into it. as I had already ID'd her as a weaker player I thought I would recommend she not jump on as it would been equally bad for her at least from my veiw.

[Asphodel]

So, Gamma is voting me for voting Naomi over a slip, but completely ignoring 2F who is not only sheeping my push but advancing with it after Gamma stated in thread that he doesn't believe it's a slip.

Town Gamma would have picked up on 2F continuing to push what he considers a non-slip and voted him.

Possible Gamma/2F team. (I read 2F as possible scum for other reasons)

VOTE: Gamma

I acknowledged his vote and stated why I don't SR it when I voted you.

And it's full of shit because he continued pushing her for the slip after you whined about it not being one and I hadn't even been posting.

You're dodging him and voting me even though he's the one actively pushing.

His vote comes from the fact she knew about encryptors from another game.

Good point, I'd forgotten that. TF argues this point later himself and it's well-taken. I think if TF were Naomi's scumbuddy he'd probably do this in a lower-effort way.

I know you're still reading through, but when you're done I'd appreciate an explanation of why you think 110 reads TvT, especially how it makes Grey look town.

Why are you worried about how it makes grey look?

Aspho, you never answered my question

I knew I'd forgotten something in my earlier posts! I was interested in why Naomi thought Ircher looked town because he was my top scumread and at the time she was pretty neutral for me. I thought I'd learn something about that. Then I realized--how was she getting that Grey was town from one of Ircher's posts? That confused me more than the Ircher townread.

Well I tried..

For those of you who have been reading my posts directed at Two face with confusion; Two face is the type of player that falls heavily to confirm bais. once TF gets an idea in their heads its hard to get it out. So I been asking probing questions knowing they are town as I know me and Gray are town to try and get them to firstly decide that Red!Me and Red!Gray do not exist on the same team no matter what and then to get them to understand that we are both green.
I failed to do so. But thats fine. I'm sure TF will eventually shift his perceptions on his own. This is also why I been ignoring Greys comments. I feel it would of distracted two face from my attempt.

TF identified that about himself in post 48.

Fine. I REALLY WANTED to get a hard townread out of this, but since no one knows proper play I have to be the IC of this game.
I am an Ascetic Enabler. I was hoping Ascetics would come forward and claim so I could have townreads to start with. The proper play with the Ascetic modifier is to claim in your first post or so. However, no one seems to get that, so I decided to go hamfisted and link to the last game I played with an Ascetic. STILL no one got it, mostly because no one bothered to read it. So I now have to fucking depants before I can use my role info to find town.

Either scum are ascetic or kry has an ascetic.

There are plenty of people who hadn't seen Gamma's posts. I know if I'd been an ascetic I wouldn't have known what to do with it. I doubt a lot of other people with either fewer completed games or less activity in this game would've known what to do either.

Why do you think this vote without conviction is more red than other votes without conviction that have happened this game?

Have you expressed this sentiment (voting w/o conviction is scummy) in any previous games?

First question I don't really understand what your asking. If you're asking me why I think it's scummy, I think that all votes when they are casted matter and quite frankly say "I think this person is scummy" unless it's RVS, then it's to apply pressure. We're also way out of RVS now.
Gin was probably trying to see how I would respond under pressure.
But I think that's something that moreso applies later within the day.

Also I when I voted All Alone I believed that they are scum and I still kinda do.

As for the 2nd question, I don't understand how I'm supposed to answer this.

Q1: That's fair. I was asking why you were thinking GnT's vote was scummier than some of the other votes which seemed more like pressure votes. At the time I had some of Grey's posts in my mind, but I can see putting more weight in later posts when we're further out of RVS.

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Also @Asphodel, don't talk about my ongoing games please. I think that's against site rules, is it not?

I don't think I said anything out of line in regards to those. If I understand correctly I'm not allowed to speculate about your alignment in those games or discuss what's happened, but I think all I did was mention that you were currently in two other games.

[Asphodel]

I'm going to need to step away from the game for a bit. Tonight I'll try to condense my reads into one good coherent post.

[Alisae]

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Besides in one of my current games, no.

I don't think I said anything out of line in regards to those. If I understand correctly I'm not allowed to speculate about your alignment in those games or discuss what's happened, but I think all I did was mention that you were currently in two other games.

This is fair and probably what happened. Sry.

[Alisae]

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Besides in one of my current games, no.

To add to this, the situation never really happened so I couldn't find anyone sus for it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Besides in one of my current games, no.

To add to this, the situation never really happened so I couldn't find anyone sus for it.

So, me voting was somethin you've never seen so you thought it was scummy?

[Alisae]

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Besides in one of my current games, no.

To add to this, the situation never really happened so I couldn't find anyone sus for it.

So, me voting was somethin you've never seen so you thought it was scummy?

Yep. Never = Besides one of my current games.