Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #725  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:22 pm

I can buy that.
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
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Flubbernugget
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Post Post #726  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:08 pm

VOTE: Naomi

Alisae
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Post Post #727  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:17 pm

I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.

TwoFace
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Post Post #728  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:29 pm

In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.

It was a slip tho.

Alisae
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Post Post #729  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:38 pm

In post 521, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 489, -Grey- wrote:
In post 488, Naomi-Tan wrote:
In post 483, -Grey- wrote:
In post 482, Naomi-Tan wrote:given that Reds have no day talk


How do you know this?


its not in the rules so Im assuming.


"given" is not an assumption, it's a statement of fact.

VOTE: Naomi

You slipped hard.

That's not a slip, town has done it before.
It's not a slip because it's safe to assume that scum do not have daytalk unless the following is true.
A. Scum has an Encryptor.
B. They do not have an Encryptor which the mod is required to announce it according to this: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

TwoFace
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Post Post #730  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:43 pm

In post 729, Alisae wrote:It's not a slip because it's safe to assume that scum do not have daytalk unless the following is true.
A. Scum has an Encryptor.
B. They do not have an Encryptor which the mod is required to announce it according to this: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

thanks captain obvious. Those 2 options have already been discussed. I played a game with Naomi where encryptor was mentioned and discussed.

Town Naomi isn't going to make a statement of fact when an encryptor is still a possibility. Thus for Naomi, it's a slip.

TheRealGin-N-Tonic
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Post Post #731  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:00 pm

Who here thought there was actually a day chat? I never once thought there was and I don't see how anyone here could have as well given the information in the OP.
“To be is to do”—Socrates. “To do is to be”—Jean-Paul Sartre. “Do be do be do”—Frank Sinatra.
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Post Post #732  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:04 pm

In post 731, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Who here thought there was actually a day chat? I never once thought there was and I don't see how anyone here could have as well given the information in the OP.

Before this game have you ever heard of an encryptor?

XnadrojX
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Post Post #733  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:18 pm

Official VC 1.3
Gamma Emerald (2)(L-5) [HS, grey]
Ircher (1)(L-6) [Asphodel]
Asphodel (1)(L-6) [krylea]
Alisae (1)(L-6) [All Alone]
Naomi-tan (2)(L-5) [TwoFace, flubbernugget]
Grey (2)(L-5) [Gamma, Alisae]

Not Voting 4 (Ircher, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Rainbowdash, Naomi-tan)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Accurate to post


Mod NotesIf you see a mistake inform me because game moves incredibly fast
Last edited by XnadrojX on Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:23 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Alisae
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Post Post #734  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:20 pm

Reads!

It's litterally me tier: Me
Not touching today: Naomi, Gamma, HS
Probably not touching today: Rainbow Dash, krylea,
Has fallen off really hard: Gin,
Has risen tier: Asphodel, Flubbernugget, Ircher
Has fallen off hard: TwoFace
Needs rope: -Grey-, All Alone, Gamma

Gamma is only considered for the needs rope category in the event that we decide to get rid of all of them Ascetics and spend day 1 doing most of the scumhuntings.

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Post Post #735  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:22 pm

In post 733, XnadrojX wrote:Not Voting 4 (Ircher, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Rainbowdash)
Vote some nerds when ywall get the chance please, otherwise it looks bad cause to me this reads to me as ywall have no strong scumreads.

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Post Post #736  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:34 pm

I guess thanks for only putting up 10 pages overnight?

Before I get caught up properly, there are two things that need to be said. I am commandeering that IC hat from Gamma because he has ZERO idea about what he is talking about and if he is town just really helped scum these last few pages.

1) The "scum don't have day talk" is not a slip. It is something that you should always operate on as being true unless something presents itself to directly say otherwise. If Naomi said scum DO have day talk, that would be worth jumping on. As it stands she said something that I would bet all my bits everypony else assumed is the case.

2) Asectic should absolutely 100% NOT CLAIM if they are town, and I am stuck between Gamma as the town VI or as scum trying to find out more about PRs. For two primary reasons. The first is that a majority of time a town role is given the ascetic modifier, its to help balance out another part of their role. Like if a mod wants a cop and a doctor, they can make the cop ascetic and that acts as a way to weaken the town role. The second is what Gamma did if he is town just made the scum job easier. Again working on common assumptions and nothing else, scum learns that he is not any other role threat to them. 10:3 is the standard split for these games, assume VT lynch day one. Scum would have 9 players to choose to NK from, with Gamma making his move, that is down to 8. Again the standard 2/3 town PR assumption... that means scum increase their chance of killing a PR by about 10% (3/9 - 33% to 3/8 - 43%) if they are just randomly guessing.

What does town gain? Lets say there are two roles that can give us a direct advantage (which is generous... 2+ investigators is rare) that would otherwise be nullified. They both randomly target the other 11 players at random, with 2 players its about a 17% chance they will target the ascetic. If they claimed it drops to 11%. So town gains 6% chance at not wasting a shot, scum gains 10% chance of killing a value target. If there is only one investigator, gets even more advantage for scum. Its like the ponies who say "miller must claim". Its flawed thinking that a longshot chance might happen, when it gives scum a massive heads up on the setup and who is what role. You are doing their job for them.

I want to say VI on him, but this is SUCH simple logic if you put pencil to paper for just a minute that I have a hard time with it. I just hope if he is town that his role is a red herring, the town with that role hasn't checked in or was cheeky and just claimed not ascetic (which I thought about doing, but this needs to be said if for no other reason to correct future thoughts). Anypony else who hasn't claimed should refuse.

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Post Post #737  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:36 pm

In post 736, Rainbowdash wrote:1) The "scum don't have day talk" is not a slip. It is something that you should always operate on as being true unless something presents itself to directly say otherwise. If Naomi said scum DO have day talk, that would be worth jumping on. As it stands she said something that I would bet all my bits everypony else assumed is the case.
Do you think that the people who are trying to push it are scummy for pushing it.

krylea
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Post Post #738  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:52 pm

In post 727, Alisae wrote:I think I need to explain how Grey fucked up.

He called Naomi's thing a "Slip." but was that a slip? No, it wasn't.
Scum like to push slips. They like to have a justified vote.
So thats why my tell on Grey works.


This is quite a good point actually. The Naomi "scumslip" was pretty fucking iffy. I still like the Asphodel wagon, but I could definitely be persuaded to look at Grey today.

Rainbowdash
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Post Post #739  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:01 pm

Vote Grey

Lots of posts, next to zero content, and most of what he said is really bad.

Already making excuses for his poor decisions.


Remember that? When he voted Ircher because he posted his win rate? Its completely null, its just provides a baseline read on how good a player is. Funny enough he actually calls HIMSELF a bad player at a later point, making his weak "case" even weaker. Even more he calls Ircher a good player at a later point.

Between his chainsawing and efforts to undermine town cohesion, I think Ircher has put forward sufficient effort to earn a wagon.


Both of those are never explained. You also cant call somepony out for a chainsaw when there isn't a scum flip.

He has plenty of experience to know that there is no scum motive in my posts. He's just pushing a superficial read to look town.


He is scum because I look like scum and he is attacking me.

Drops it for Aspho because... I dunno.

It's not like I'm trying to put myself in the position of town leader to direct lynches, so what does standing out do to advance a scum wincon?


How is this even a defense? He literally is trying to say that because he is not trying to lead lynches (which he had been on Ircher for a long time) he cant be scum. Also is apparently sheeping a player which with the same logic would suggest that he is following scum?

Town often makes superficial cases on d1 because there isn't anything more substantial to build a case around when the game is just getting started.


Remember when Ircher was scum for making "superficial cases" earlier?

There is some really weird attack on Alisae that actually gets immediately dropped as soon as HS says "Maybe they are town without self-confidence"

Then comes the big point (as if what he had done up to there is remotely town like).

The "no day talk slip" saga.

Grey is the first to point it out, and votes Naomi for it. As already stated, this is a dumb idea and says that only scum would say that when again, its standard operating procedure to assume that is true.

Then we get this where it gets very fun

In post 588, -Grey- wrote:So, Gamma is voting me for voting Naomi over a slip, but completely ignoring 2F who is not only sheeping my push but advancing with it after Gamma stated in thread that he doesn't believe it's a slip.

Town Gamma would have picked up on 2F continuing to push what he considers a non-slip and voted him.

Possible Gamma/2F team. (I read 2F as possible scum for other reasons)

VOTE: Gamma


Image

I had to read this a few times because its just THAT confusing.

What basically happens is a Gamma points out how bad the "slip" case is, and votes Grey for it. Grey freaks out and calls Gamma scum and tries to throw TF under the bus because they also liked the chance of the slip meaning something.

Also he apparently is entirely abandoning the Naomi read, and instead is basically launching an OMGUS attack while trying to deflect blame onto another. He actually is using the fact that TF thought the exact same thing that Grey said as a reason that TF is scum. This is now the second instance of Grey saying a player is scum for doing something that Grey did first.

Naomi, 2F is pushing both of us because he got sucked into the scumslip and now he's butthurt over me calling him out for attaching himself to me since page two.


"Sucked into" what Grey said was absolutely a slip and would never vote elsewhere. Grey continues to try and shift the blame to anypony else and discredit those attacking him.

Vote Grey

Can we lynch this guy? He is responsible for a lot of the spam and fluff in this thread, and is ridiculously scummy to boot.
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Post Post #740  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:03 pm

Hey RainbrowDash. I don't like bronies and stuff, but I'm willing to set aside that difference and work with you because I think your town and I won't lynch you.

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Post Post #741  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 pm

In post 733, XnadrojX wrote:
Official VC 1.3
Gamma Emerald (1)(L-6) [HS, grey]
Ircher (1)(L-6) [Asphodel]
Asphodel (2)(L-5) [flubbernugget, krylea]
Alisae (1)(L-6) [All Alone]
Naomi-tan (2)(L-5) [TwoFace, flubbernugget]
Grey (1)(L-6) [Gamma, Alisae]

Not Voting 4 (Ircher, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Rainbowdash)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Accurate to post


Mod NotesIf you see a mistake inform me because game moves incredibly fast


@mod, is the fact that the 2 votes on grey and gamma are being counted as 1 vote intentional, or a mistake?

Thanks
Last edited by XnadrojX on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Alisae
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Post Post #742  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 pm

Also Dash what are your reads on the other ponys in da house?

Alisae
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Post Post #743  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 pm

Also Dash what are your reads on the other ponys in da house?

Alisae
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Post Post #744  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 pm

Woops doublepost, mybad

TwoFace
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Post Post #745  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:33 pm

In post 736, Rainbowdash wrote:1) The "scum don't have day talk" is not a slip. It is something that you should always operate on as being true unless something presents itself to directly say otherwise. If Naomi said scum DO have day talk, that would be worth jumping on. As it stands she said something that I would bet all my bits everypony else assumed is the case.

Like on one hand you have a point, on the other anyone who's played a game with an encryptor shouldn't automatically assume scum have daytalk. If Naomi said probably that would change everything.

If somebody said "scum probably have day talk" would that be a slip?

It's the certainty that makes me think slip

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Post Post #746  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:34 pm

Don't have day talk*

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Post Post #747  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:37 pm

Rainbowdash

What do you think about Ircher saying that being pr confirmed ascetic with no claim is an auto lynch?

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Post Post #748  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:38 pm

Since Gamma claimed Ascetic Enabler, any "no results" results should be insta-lynched because the ascetic(s) is/are scum hiding behind the role.

I'm happy returning to my previous vote.

VOTE: Naomi
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Post Post #749  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:43 pm

@Rainbowdash: I didn't consider that. I'm used to Ascetic Townies.
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