Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Has the game started? I didnt get a link in the PM to this thread so I'm only slightly lost.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Ah, game did start, got it :p

@work right now so I'll be on to talk in like 4 hours maybe 5.

Quick scim tells me we are doing a gamma wagon. Why is that?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm not seeing the type of discussion I want.
Maybe the inactives will provide.

This post reads scum to me. I don't really see a town motivation for counting on an inactive player to provide discussion. I mean, that's kind of the opposite of what "inactive" means! A townie who's frustrated with the discussion not going their way usually takes the initiative to provide that discussion themself, but Gamma doesn't. As scum hoping to hold back, his mindset here makes a lot more sense.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Nah it's town.

It's day 1 first few pages. It's evident, at least to me that Gamma doesn't care about the wagon on him, but instead is interested in the inactives, or those that will try to hide behind a bandwagon so they don't have to contribute much to the discussion.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

ive skimmed the posts, say a quick refresh an wanted to give my thoughts, don't expect much but during my next break I'll take a look.

Don't try to rush me because I couldn't care less how slow I take. I'm a thinker not a fighter

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gamma you okay?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yes Grey, I see your point, but I'm still trying to split the difference between badIrcher and scumIrcher. Leaning towards badIrcher atm.

Ircher isn't bad. That's why I think he's scum.

He has plenty of experience to know that there is no scum motive in my posts. He's just pushing a superficial read to look town.

I love playing devils advocate, if Ircher is as experienced as he says he is, would it make sense that he would be able to, as scum, come up with a "scum read" on a player instead of just singling you out?

Remember to fight an argument and the rebuttal of what your argument would be before your opponent has the chance to

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

On my way home from work, expect a spike in activity soon

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I am late to the party because of who I am as a person, Naomi, regarding my "weak ass defense," don't expect much from a phone post, I'm home now and can actually develop thought so hold your horses till I catch up.

Also PSA: Call me "Gin" and "vote: Gin" if you're gonna do it. It's how I prefer but "TheRealGin" was already taken.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Whew, caught up. Okay reads and then questions

Reads:
RainbowDash town as fuck$Still don't like her because I played a MLP themed game of Mafia and lost it because I sent a mafioso into a vet, ergo allowing an escape from a MyLo and loss of game. UGH
Human Sequencer screams town$mostly gut reaction from reading his posts

Grey leaning town$Very aggressive/slightly cocky.

Two-Face leaning town$Due to his first attack at 43 against Gamma asking why grey scumreading him was a bad thing.

FlubberNugget null$haven't paid much attention too
Alisea null$Haven't looked into deeply
Naomi-Tan null$relaxed when defending and very open play style, not worth a D1 lynch. Will mess up on their own later down the road.
All Alone null$Not much to go off of

Asphodel leaning scum$Opens up with a trust tell? Asphodel for some reason, doesn't want focused attention on Ircher, one that is being scum read. Post 236: questions why people would think Grey is town. It's hard to put into words what irks me about this post but it's like he's trying to push Grey and as scum, he's having a hard time convincing people to lynch a townie.

Gamma scum butt$Most, if not all posts are highly frivolous and are just fluff. Post 119 is using self-meta as a form of defense and I won't read it because that's bullshit. Anyone can copy and paste a personality D1.
Ircher Scum$Oh boy is he a mess. First off he WK's Gamma, in which gamma did nothing productive at that point, so the point in defending him is rather sparse in reasoning. Post 81 talks about win rates. I see it as an excuse to say "hey this is why I'm playing bad." It's not necessary as a townie, you just try your best. Post 90 reinforces the previous point and shows that Ircher is using the fact that Grey made a joke or two, scummy AF. Hits my bullshit meter pretty high. Then in post 165, he votes Grey because apparently Grey is "arguing semantics."

No-Read: Krylea hasn't posted at all?

Questions:
Ircher: Post 168, where the fuck is Gamma scum hunting?

lmao didn't have many questions as I thought I would

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Alisae needs more votes.

I found me a cautious scum.

I'm actually going to second this motion and will hop on that Oregon Trail wagon


VOTE: Alisea


P-Edit: I ain't reading shit that's not related to this game. Now you can go ahead and tell me what you're after but you're going to explain that here. I ain't your damn lapdog.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin, you think scum!Ircher would hard defend scum!Gamma at the opening of d1?

Gtfo of here with that noise. Welcome to my scumpile.

Cool I'm scumread, was waiting for that to happen.

Also, I think we can actually come to the logical conclusion that if what Ircher is saying is true, in that he has a high loss rate, would it not be reasonable to seem him commit bad play as scum?

P-Edit: Ircher, why didn't you actually read his ISO before coming to the conclusion he was scumhunting or were you thinking no one would check on that?

P-Edit 2: I've been doing some nice scum hunting here sweetie, work with what ya got.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Alisae, haven't checked much but it's more of a placeholder vote.

@Ircher, "looking for certain things" which would be?

BRB, finding some info and reading ISOs

P-Edit:
@Grey, then I guess we'll have to wait and see what he flips when he does.

P-Edit 2:
@Alisae, I don't feel like fucking voting?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, I said it was a blatant sheep vote. What's not to get or are you trying to spin a story I've already explained?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Alisae, yeah you're still null to me. Scummy and townish at the same time so I can't make up my mind. Still keeping my vote on ya tho.

@Ircher, so when you WK'd him, you were looking for town posts, where exactly did you find those that got you to that conclusion?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's getting close to being out of spite right now.

How many votes are on you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Gin - Clarify?

@Gin - It was a more reactionary post at the time. I mean, I did check once, but I kinda skimmed through and was looking for certain things.

@Ircher, "looking for certain things" which would be?

It depends. Like, at one point, I was looking for town posts in Gamma's ISO (considering my earlier WK)

What were the posts you found town by Gamma?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I've already answered that. You can look at my readslist or you can go find my earlier quote when I went through Gamma's ISO looking for town stuff.

Oh hello, that was a beautiful reads list.

Yeah, this is why I don't vote my scum reads as soon as I make a list, it's helpful to actually think.

Hey Alisae? You like the sound of pressuring me to vote my scum reads because you want a mislynch? Is it that or is there a different motive as to why you want me to vote someone besides you so badly?

P-Edit: Then why are you so edgy about a vote or two on you? Stop worrying about yourself, go argue against someone and show how they are scum. I seriously could care less about defending, I'm swayed by offense over defense.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My logic is that I just got a pen and paper and wrote down posts that caught my eye, I go back and review those posts when I make the reads list and then establish to the class what my thoughts were. They are then discussed and I move from there.

As for voting you, I vote you for 1) A sheep vote, reactionary to see what you do(Freak the fuck out apparently) and 2) If I think someone's scum, I'll let them go on and vote them near the end of the day if need be; I'd much rather spend time focusing on my remaining null reads so I can determine their actual alignment. Not sorry that I'm focusing on figuring people out over getting tunnel vision.

Oh you can attack me and I'm perfectly okay with it, keep me in check so I don't use fucked up logic when I'm reading someone. I'm a chemist, I don't care if I'm wrong, I'd rather be proven wrong and then work from there. It's in my nature lmao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Expain how this pattern is wishy-washy

1) Declares Sheep vote on Alisae
2) Declares it's a sheep vote and you're null still
3) Continues to say it's a sheep vote and I tell you straight up you're scummy and townish
4) I then come to the conclusion that you overreact to a vote that goes onto you when it's only the 2nd vote, and considering you were null to me, it's worth applying more attention to see what comes out of you, ergo more alignment indicative.

It's pretty fucking clear to see what I did.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

There are two types of votes:

1)Sheep/Band wagon votes. This is where one player votes someone who seems to get a lot of heat on them to blend in or because they feel like following someone they town read to apply it as a pressure vote against the accused to get them talking. That's what I did here, as evidence, even with 2 votes, my sheep vote got you talking and that's what I want to happen.

2) Conviction voting. When I do that kind of vote, I'm going to build a case on a player and they will be 100% without a doubt scum in my eyes and will push their lynch unless they're host confirmed or I'm a PR and got a guilty as charge form of confirming them scum.

P-Edit:

All-Alone, you're gonna have to trust me in a game about mistrust here. That was a forbidden phone post where I wasn't reading the thread, fully because I was at work making a series of linearities and looked at the post by itself. It was only then after fully reading the game from page 1 and taking notes that he's had an overall scummy behaviour posting fluff.

Also, to make sure everything is clear, I also at first thought Ircher was "townish" during my work but then a full read made me believe he was scum. Only then after seeing his reads list, I felt content with leaving him alone because he's backing up what he said with quotes.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

1)Sheep/Band wagon votes. This is where one player votes someone who seems to get a lot of heat on them to blend in or because they feel like following someone they town read to apply it as a pressure vote against the accused to get them talking.

That's what I did here, as evidence, even with 2 votes, my sheep vote got you talking and that's what I want to happen.

Don't argue one post by me, remember our entire argument.

You're talking now, I'm extracting info and I'll be able to make a sufficient read when we are done here.

What else you got that you're not clear about?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

That's because the second sentence is in fact irrelevant to the first. It was a game that was held on a different site, and because of that game, I will forever hold a vendetta against My Little Pony, ergo why I dislike RainbowDash.

She's town to me because she wants quality posts, not spam where players, like me who work an 8-5 can keep up with the thread. Spam helps a scum blend in D1 instead of leaving a more noticeable trail, to push for quality over quantity is a town tell for me.


P-Edit:

Okay cool, have fun convincing other people that. You just don't know how to fucking scumhunt.

I VOTE TO GET YOU TO TALK. AFTER YOU TALK, I HAVE INFO TO ANALYZE.

Sweetie it's called a reaction test, it's part of the process and if that's scummy to you, then you're being dense.

Oh and this will really rile up your feathers, but I still haven't come up with a conclusion whether you're townie or scum. How does that make you feel?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

One thing to piss me off real quick is to cherry pick a quote because responding to the whole thing destroys your argument.

Don't try that bullshit on me. I answered why the fuck my actions weren't scum motivated in the same quote.

Fucking read it or actually fight the points I make or give up trying to lynch me with that petty shit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Analyzing myself?

Here is your argument as to why I'm scum: "I voted without conviction"

My defeat of your argument: Blatant sheep vote meant to get a reaction out of you.

Your rebuttal: I didn't build a case on you.

My retort: It's Day fucking 1, I'm building the case on the foundation of the reactions I'm receiving from the test.

You can kindly fuck off.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Your rebuttal: I didn't build a case on you.

Where did I say this exactly?
If you can respectfully show me where you get townie points.

No, I am saying that your vote has no coviction behind it.

Atleast I think that's what Wishywashy voting is. Voting without convinction. I am probably very wrong tho.

Yeah...no. You're scum. I'm certain in this now.
You've put no effort into scumhunting currently whatsoever.
You're voting me, and you'd think that because you are voting me you would want to talk to me to see if I'm scum or not but nope, I am completely in control of our dialogue. You have nothing to ask me. And when you asked me "why didn't I go attack someone else?" you figured I wouldn't attack you. You were probably hoping I didn't attack you.

Your voting has no conviction behind it, and it's sheepy and that's bad. I don't think you even understand how bad it is.

Lastly you just offered me IoA. Your post has more information then analysis in it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin, by no conviction I mean you don't feel as if I am scum. You have no strong belief to your vote. I'm null to you. And you could be voting people you think are scum and doing this reaction test on them.

What is scummy about trying to find out your alignment if I'm not sure about you?

What is the rush in voting people I find people scummy if we have 2 weeks total and it's only been a day?

Why rush a lynch when I could spend most of D1 milking information and reactions on every single one of my null/scum reads (You're not the only one I'm going to be doing this to in case you think I'm tunneling you lol) to come to a solid conclusion as to who I think scum is and vote them as an official lynch?

But you're wasting time on me. I honestly think it's scum motivated.

I could say the same to you, however I'm almost leaning onto a TvT argument. Also I would actually completely agree that sheeping a vote is scum motivated, if it's past Day 2. However, in Day 1, votes aren't super serious until you're turning people into L-3 and L-2, if sheeping at that stage, it's scummy. However, I can not and will not ever see the first couple of votes scummy unless blatant or made by my scum reads.

And at the time I'm the easiest wagon to hop on, so you just sheep it to see what happens.

This got me a little puzzled if you realize Grey voted and I voted you almost right after, the only wagon that was on you was created on the spot. Also if I was sheeping trying to blend in, wouldn't it be smarter to go for someone that already had 3-4 votes on them instead of just 1?

How can you say I followed a band wagon onto you when I was the first sheeper?

Qutie frankly I don't think you could have predicted me going off on you.

Nah I did, you just haven't ever played with me to understand that this is standard procedure for me.

I never said the word case. You associated the word case and conviction. Every vote is important when they matter, and I'm holding you accountable to yours.

If you're holding me accountable, how about Grey's vote?

Not trying to change the topic, I just would like to know your opinion about someone else who has voted you, as well as Gamma, your townread, who voted for you with a blatant sheep vote. What makes me different from the others?

I wasn't asking you to prove that I am scum. And I never did. I'm saying is you never strongly believed that I am scum, yet you are voting me for it anyways.

And I never tried to prove you were scum Again, I'm starting to lean TvT argument the way this has proceeded but we aren't finished yet.

I think overall it's really hard for you to understand what I'm doing until you become an observer. Tomorrow I'll be focusing on another null and will see where that gets me. Consider this a goodnight post because I have to wake up in 7 hours for work.

I will admit I had fun talking to ya

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh and UNVOTE: because I never go to sleep holding a vote.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay Gamma and Gin I wanna know what your connection is to each other right now here in the open.

Ah, game did start, got it :p

@work right now so I'll be on to talk in like 4 hours maybe 5.

Quick scim tells me we are doing a gamma wagon. Why is that?

I'm not seeing the type of discussion I want.
Maybe the inactives will provide.

This post reads scum to me. I don't really see a town motivation for counting on an inactive player to provide discussion. I mean, that's kind of the opposite of what "inactive" means! A townie who's frustrated with the discussion not going their way usually takes the initiative to provide that discussion themself, but Gamma doesn't. As scum hoping to hold back, his mindset here makes a lot more sense.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Nah it's town.

It's day 1 first few pages. It's evident, at least to me that Gamma doesn't care about the wagon on him, but instead is interested in the inactives, or those that will try to hide behind a bandwagon so they don't have to contribute much to the discussion.

GinNTonic could be a bad townie too.

Gamma you okay?

Whew, caught up. Okay reads and then questions

Reads:

Gamma scum butt$Most, if not all posts are highly frivolous and are just fluff. Post 119 is using self-meta as a form of defense and I won't read it because that's bullshit. Anyone can copy and paste a personality D1.

So You enter defending Gamma with rather limp reasoning. Gamma then distances himself from you. Taking the hint you back off and red read him despite spending the majority of the early game being on their side. This says to me there is 2 things going on 1) There is a connection between Gamma and Gin and 2) They don't want Greens to know there is a link going on.

Given the above quotes as well. the connection Is still strong despite them trying to distance.

Read my explanation to All-Alone, I answered this as they were phone posts while at work, not much time to actually develop thought and took posts at face value instead of soaking up the entire thread before making decisions, my fault but all posts after my reads list have been taken into account the whole game.

One thing I do like that you brought back up is post 183; because while phone posting, I started to get confused on why Gamma would say he was waiting on two inactives and was going to ask why he was acting like a mod instead of playing but he ghosted me.


Quick Question for Ailsae; reason for voting All-Alone because they voted for you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Like Given the last time someone pressured her she contradicted herself in the same post It shows that she is the kinda of player that hears responses and takes them to heart getting emotional swiftly and the more emotional she gets the less logical she becomes.

So you're saying Ailsae is just a flustered townie, more so than the possibility that she's scum having a hard time coming up with an argument?

Need to know for my notes.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

post 450, she's yet to play a game as mafia(only played one completed game) so I'm not letting go of the possibility of noob!scum moves being a thing and just dismissing them.

Overall tho, my gut does lean TvT.

post 451, could you elaborate?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What exactly is a bad townie?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So what separates a player from being either a bad townie or scum?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Grey, I'm confused in your logic. How can I be a null read if I was fighting Alisae who you think is scum, you can't tell me that was scum theatre, so I'm not seeing how you seeing her as scum trying to lynch me equates to me not being town if you actually logically think about it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yeah, Gin is 100% bad townie.

So what was the problem with that post?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The fuck?

I want to at least improve so I can give better contributions. Don't just pass me off as the drunk townie, if you're town as well, then you'd want to work with me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If its in the guidelines of normal and wasn't stated in the OP then its evidently not in the game. That's a long ass stretch saying its a slip.

I'm not fighting word choice here, tell me the logic in why a townie would think there is day chat?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Qutie frankly I am calm, collected, and tired. Not freaking out. Press my buttons a bit and I can do that.

Either way, your voting is...I believe the right term is wishywashy?
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Dude I miss the evidence for this?

I said I blatantly sheep voted her to get a reaction, it worked nonetheless but I'm scum for reaction testing on D1 lol

In the heat of the moment, it felt like a TvT but I haven't been at home to the point where I can actually take notes on it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Q2: Basically I'm asking if there are any other games in which you had become suspicious of someone for voting without conviction.

Besides in one of my current games, no.

To add to this, the situation never really happened so I couldn't find anyone sus for it.

So, me voting was somethin you've never seen so you thought it was scummy?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I can buy that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Who here thought there was actually a day chat? I never once thought there was and I don't see how anyone here could have as well given the information in the OP.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The idea came to me to do a mini VA on Grey and report what I see.

I can dig it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

RVS: Sheepvote, beginning of the game, you can't expect much from anything really.

Anyway, would like to point everyone to my wiki page with an ~30% or so win rate.

VOTE: Ircher

Already making excuses for his poor decisions.

This is still early in the game but it starts a trend I've been following with his voting pattern. Ircher saying he has a low win rate and wanting him lynched sounds like he's pushing for a policy lynch and policy lynches are meant for townies, so to push for one instead of ignoring said townie raises a yellow flag.

I'm not worried about a flash lynch.
I'm just a lot more interested in what Ircher has to say about a Gamma wagon than I am with the players reversed.

Request granted.

VOTE: Gamma

This vote was just a sheep vote, but what I find suspicious about it is that it only took him 15 minutes and one post from HS to say, "I'll go switch my vote because no reason." If Grey actually wanted to pursue a scum read on Ircher, he would have kept his vote on Ircher and pushed him. This vote shows he doesn't actually care who is voted, he just wants someone lynched in general and that's a scum mindset.

Back to my first choice, I've been on Gamma long enough.

VOTE: Ircher

1:22 to 2:39, just a little over an hour and a 40ish posts on the "gamma wagon." That's not "long enough," that's barely any time at all honestly. It didn't allow an actual discussion to form on Gamma. I see the motive as preventing town from actually trying to solve players by forcing the wheel around in circles.

I like 195 and am willing to lend it my vote.

VOTE: Asphodel

It's getting obvious the trend we see in Grey's vote patterns, he's following the wagons onto anyone that has small case being built onto them. He doesn't actually hold opinions of his own and, to funnily enough quote Alisae, is voting without conviction. The difference here is that he does this too many times for it to be a reaction test, he just fence sits and hops onto any opportunity to mislynch that he can get.

BTW Naomi do you think your weak scum read on TwoFace could come from him trying to be lynch bait or something?

What's with the lynchbait paranoia?

It's like you're afraid of getting on the wrong wagon.

VOTE: Alisae

This is actually hindsight talking but the personality traits and voting patterns I see with Alisae is that 1) She is extra careful with her vote and uses it as if it's a loaded gun instead of a tool in the fashion that say, I would use it in; and 2) She strongly believes in having a case built up before voting someone, ergo all that and you get an understandable reason that Alisae simply won't vote TF because instead, she is taking the time to figure out all the possibilities.

What I don't like about the vote is that i'm reading it as Grey is trying to rush Alisae into voting and get her flustered/manipulate her to vote anyone or just cause chaos instead of game solving.

given that Reds have no day talk

How do you know this?

its not in the rules so Im assuming.

"given" is not an assumption, it's a statement of fact.

VOTE: Naomi

You slipped hard.

This is arguing semantics and honestly it's an opportunistic vote. What Grey doesn't do here is look at Naomi at a whole, doesn't look at any possible scum motives or any of that to back up a possible lead. He just found something small he can pick up on and try to build a case but it's a hallow case at best because it's not actually a slip.

So, Gamma is voting me for voting Naomi over a slip, but completely ignoring 2F who is not only sheeping my push but advancing with it after Gamma stated in thread that he doesn't believe it's a slip.

Town Gamma would have picked up on 2F continuing to push what he considers a non-slip and voted him.

Possible Gamma/2F team. (I read 2F as possible scum for other reasons)

VOTE: Gamma

I'm trying to dissect this post and what it's saying:
He says Gamma votes him because Gamma believes it's a non-slip but in reality, he should be voting Gamma should vote TF because TF agreed.

My interpretation is that Grey isn't actually fighting Gamma's response to him, he's attacking the player and not the argument which I find to be a scum tell. Another factor is that Grey is trying to push the blame for the slip onto TF and have Gamma focus on someone else that's not him but it backfired.

Since Gamma claimed Ascetic Enabler, any "no results" results should be insta-lynched because the ascetic(s) is/are scum hiding behind the role.

I'm happy returning to my previous vote.

VOTE: Naomi

The last vote is simple, he is caught with his pants down so he'll continue to push this "scum slip" instead of actually providing a case onto how Naomi is actually scum. I don't see any actual work by Grey trying to actually determine if a player is scum, I'm seeing him go after each opportunity and voting based on the trends on who is wagonable at the time.


I'd vote Grey but I'm going to sleep in an an hour or two so it'd be a waste but expect it when I wake up.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Grey is at L- what?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Grey That's L-2

I'll quit the not voting at night thing, realizing that it screws with VCAs near end game

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

In post 40, that was a continuation of a joke that you started with Gamma, what ran through your mind to leave that "crumb"

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

You may be lying but I see no reason to lynch a possible lie if you can fall on your own actions.

If you fake any guilty results on a townie, then we will know you're scum and we got the next days lynch being you.
If you fake any town reads on a scum, well it creates WIFOM about the players alignment but I'm doubting you'd risk connecting yourself to your scum team via night action like that.

If you are cop, and get a guilty then we know how that battle proceeds when its TvS.
If you are cop, and get a townie, then we know a townie.

The only possibility that is bad with keeping you alive is the WIFOMy fake town reads you could produce but that can be expected with any cop.

I see no further reason to push a lynch on you but I'll be straight up, I won't have your trust till D2.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It may be BS but will he not fall on his own sword D2? IMO he's a sack of potatoes compared to figuring out other people now.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

RainbowDash, if you find the claim to be false, ergo he is scum, who would you connect Grey to with his two partners?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin is also reading pretty bad.
I wouldn't mind a Gin or Asphodel lynch at the moment.

Explain my dear Human, don't just say you're okay with a lynch but back it up with reasoning lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Am I missing something or did Gamma vote himself?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Is this all on the wiki with the discussion of enablers and ascetics because this site is using stuff I've never seen before I'll be straight up.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So Ascetic is when a player can only be killed, they can not be invested or healed.

An enabler is when if the Enabler dies, the person who shared the enabled ability loses the PR status.


So if I have this correct, Gamma saying he's an Ascetic enabler means that if he is dead, then the ascetic power roles lose their "ascetic" status and can then be invested/healed/roleblocked.

Correct or am I not understanding the roles?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So a back up enabler?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I've never played with these roles before but a back up enabler sounds like a really big stretch

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin is also reading pretty bad.
I wouldn't mind a Gin or Asphodel lynch at the moment.

Explain my dear Human, don't just say you're okay with a lynch but back it up with reasoning lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

HS, you're still avoiding the question at hand, why are you completely okay with lynching me? What are your reasons for me being scummy?

I don't care what you think I am when it comes to behaviour, I only care about what you think I've done that's been scummy and the scum motives behind it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You said I was scummy when making that post, regardless of finding me new, you still held those thoughts. What. the fuck. were those thoughts? I don't believe for a second you had actual reasons but feeling the waters out to see what you can get away with.

I'm not answering any of your other questions until you actually fucking tell me what I did that you found scummy. REGARDLESS, of being new.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Read post 496 again and I think you'll ascertain a better understanding of why I scumread you to begin with. My thoughts, read and actions are clearly laid out in that post.

Are you an alt? Do you have game history with any of the other players in this game?

Twas a scum read because I didn't get pissed off...

Okay realize the way my emotions work, is that when I'm away from game, I get a crazy theory that pops in my head and I'll straight away post it making my posting sporadic. The most amount of time, I'm reading and once a player sticks out of the normal swing of the game, I'll think to myself, lets analyze this player(an example would be deducing the reasons Grey voted for the people he did) and see what I come up with, if I'm at a road block with it, I'll ask questions until my theory is either destroyed or found more solid ground. When it comes to anger, I'd have to say that happnes only when something is blatantly obvious and intuitive and no one or one person doesn't get it; or hits one of my pet peeves like that cheery picking an argument shit.

Basically to sum that all up for tl;dr. My emotions have hella mood swings and they're NAI.

To answer your question, the only alt I have is a hydra and played one game in it, linking it below. Also because I like to brag, our whole scum team was nommed for the Don Corleone for our performance. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088

When reading the hungergames, I'm "Blawb" and end all things with /Gin. I eventually take over Blawb completely as my teammates flaked so D2, every post is me and only me. I don't doubt this is gonna throw out some suspicion on me but I'm curious to see who is going to use past experience as a basis for argument to lynch a player over actually analyzing the game at play.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Self-meta-ing a little bit from my games on the other site,

I very rarely, if ever try to push for my partners to be lynched as scum.

That's for a few reasons. It was a pretty tight-knit group over there, and there was no cardflip in many of the games. Like, over a span of 20 or so scum games, I remember the single time I voted for a scum partner, and even that doesn't really count because my partner made a really terrible counterclaim. That's not to say I never scumread my partners, I just avoided seriously putting my vote on them because 48 hours is not a very long time.

A red flip will be V interesting. I'm confused as to why, as town, you'd be saying that or really anything regarding how you play as red?

I like the conclusion that because there is no day chat, this is his form of telling his partners he won't be pushing them if they get sus.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If an ascetic claims, then that means they're a power role. If you're scum and a town ascetic claims, you just directed the scums kill to our power roles.

So what again is the benefit of outing a power role?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I think it's best to state my plan.
No ascetics claim. If Grey claims a result on an ascetic he gets lynched.

All scum has to do if I get a guilty is claim to be ascetic.

That's brilliant.

No. Guilty claims need to be lynched, period. If the guilty flips town, then obviously I'm scum.

This. This is exactly why I think focusing on Greys alignment and trying to lynch him is silly. He falls on his own sword if he is lying

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Lol at the fact that you don't have a sig

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Self-meta-ing a little bit from my games on the other site,

I very rarely, if ever try to push for my partners to be lynched as scum.

That's for a few reasons. It was a pretty tight-knit group over there, and there was no cardflip in many of the games. Like, over a span of 20 or so scum games, I remember the single time I voted for a scum partner, and even that doesn't really count because my partner made a really terrible counterclaim. That's not to say I never scumread my partners, I just avoided seriously putting my vote on them because 48 hours is not a very long time.

A red flip will be V interesting. I'm confused as to why, as town, you'd be saying that or really anything regarding how you play as red?

I like the conclusion that because there is no day chat, this is his form of telling his partners he won't be pushing them if they get sus.

Asphodel, you should be posting within the next hour or two if you keep up with the same posting pattern and if so, I'd LOVE for you to respond to this

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Besudes, TwoFace is guilty of confirmation!bias or being scum.

You're fence sitting...

P-Edit: mini ninja

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay so he's voting but he's fence sitting on his motivation as to why he's voting you.

If he thinks a townie has conf bias, he shouldn't vote them because he bloody thinks they're town.

If he just said scum it would have been fine but he doesn't want to leave out any options off the table so he can talk his way out of it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I actually can't wait to see it, I got some ideas brainstorming right now and I can think about it over dinner tonight.

Ircher, if you could hook me up with that reads list in like, the next 20 minutes that'd be great

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I actually can't wait to see it, I got some ideas brainstorming right now and I can think about it over dinner tonight.

Ircher, if you could hook me up with that reads list in like, the next 20 minutes that'd be great

It takes a long while to go through the ISOs.

Unlike TwoFace over here, a GOOD readslist WITH reasons takes a lot of time to make.

Dude, a reads list is done like once a day. We don't need a Reads List1.X from you all the time; it's overselling it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I do think I should update my reads as I haven 't done so yet, and its been 10+ or so pages since then. So, I'll do that first.

Pedit: Bad assumption on my part.

I actually can't wait to see it, I got some ideas brainstorming right now and I can think about it over dinner tonight.

Ircher, if you could hook me up with that reads list in like, the next 20 minutes that'd be great

It takes a long while to go through the ISOs.

Unlike TwoFace over here, a GOOD readslist WITH reasons takes a lot of time to make.

It takes 4+ hours to make a reads list?

Spoiler: Reads - Day 1 #1

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
1. Ircher  (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)
2. All Alone (90%) - 70 was an ok question. I mean, I don't necessarily agree with the perspective but the follow up in 74 was well-justified. I concur with the justification and analysis in 108, but even with that, I don't support the wagon. 195 was a pretty good case imo that I am considering joining. (But right now, I'm hanging on to my Grey scumread and will let myself determine my read there).

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)
3. Gamma (70%) - 39 and 42 read as town to me and you cannot argue otherwise as it is MY opinion. 79 is a bit beyond paranoia and somewhat accusatory imo. 93 is odd, but not necessarily telling.
4. Human Sequencer (68%) - 13 is a good start to the ISO. Not following the Gamma read in 73. Once more, 139 reads neitral -- unlike Asphodel's opinion, there are many factors to a read and some reasons are based on gut trends versus specific evidence. (There's general evidence, but the trend and gut read matters more; it's hard to tell from a single post). 147 reads as genuine confusion. 156 pings a bit since there was a Gamma wagon that I quite adamantly expressed my opinion on.

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)
5. Naomi-Tan (+25%) - 16 felt genuine as did the subsequent posts. 27 is reasonable too -- not overly defensive. The ISO lacks enough content for me to get a full read here. (Granted, it's one of the longer ISOs though)
6. Flubbernugget (+1%) - Pretty much nothing useful; slight gut read but meh.
7. TheRealGin-N-Tonic (-12%) - 114 is meh. 196 is very unclear and almost sounds like fluff tbh. Not enough content for a conclusive read.

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)
8. Alisae (+50%) - 146 was a good question, even if literally, it seems like a useless question. Don't like 184 cuz it's a loaded question; 187 was better after I asked for it to be unbiased.
9. TwoFace (-40%) - 43 feels off; it just does. 226 is pretty poor justification for a vote and a bad response to All Alone's question (even if I somewhat agree with what was stated). 280 is just buzzwords with no hard evidence.
10. Asphodel (-50%) - There are good and bad things about 46. Obviouslu, the bad thing about it is the entire intro and how it is focused on Asphodel being town; however, I know I have done similar things (though not nearly as in-depth) as town before multiple times, so that point is kinda moot. The actual content aside from the intro is acceptable imo. 131's logic reads as somewhat reachy (as in, it fits, but it feels overemphasized and ignorant of the larger picture) but that may be due to bias. 133 is off, but I won't judge until post-flip from Flubber or Asp. 166 is basically discrediting a read just because with littke to no explanation as to why you don't like it. 177 fails to consider that D1 has lasted for less than 24 hours, so we're still extremely early in the game. 203 - I disagree, You cannot discredit a read just because you think differently; it's

their

read.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
11. Grey (-65%) - 12 feels unnecessary and superflous imo. 38 feels weird (later states it was humor, okay, I can see that....). His "continuance" of his joke in 40 seems more serious than a joke. (Well actually tbh, 38 is the more serious post, but it's the need to further the joke that I find unnecessary and as an actual serious remark). Never really supports his assertion in 84 that I'm undermining the town to keep them from cooperating. 84's content would be fine if it was less accusatory. Posts 151, 155, 162, 164 are deliberate attempts to evade a legitimate point against him by on purposely interpreting things literally. 175 is a valid response to the question, but it took too long to get an answer there. 193 is null, but I would note that experience != skill. 198 was also a fairly decent post. Starting to have my doubts here, but we'll wait and see.

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Note that I started this around 4:00 or so, so some of these may be outdated a little bit.

So for you it does, either way I'd expect the post from you rather soon.

I'm +1ing what TF said about you going "look I'm town" with the posts. Saying how long it took you is unnecessary and it's trying to capitalize "how townie" a reads list is and when you make one.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Ircher

Don't forget the part where he emphasizes he'll make a reads list cuz he hasn't done one in 10 pages. It's fishing for town cred.

Also no reads list takes 5 fucking hours unless that's time spent trying to frame townies and he's having difficulty in doing so.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Get the fuck out of here.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm really only interested in {Ircher, Asphodel or Grey(if Rainbow is convincing)} lynch today.

Ircher because I see a lot of scum motives in his actions and I'm getting the feel that his reads lists are now for town cred.
Asphodel due to what I believe is him trying to communicate with his scum mates in the beginning of the game but honestly haven't delved deep into him.
Grey if his claim is proven wrong.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I dare you to run me up to L-1. Though, I'm pretty sure I'm already L-2 anyway so.....

I want you dead so your approval is welcome

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I like L-2 because it prevents accidental quickhammers. I've seen it before so it's understandable. The only other scenario where I see it justified is in MyLo/LyLo where L-1 could lead to a scum quick hammer.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Literally last game I had a townie do it by accident, hence why I believe in it so strongly.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

That read list is full of so many inconsistencies dude...

Looking at "Grey" you drone on and on about how he's done scummy shit but he's confirmed town?

"Alisae" again does a bunch of scummy shit but she's high on your list?


Literally going through that list, I feel like if you reversed the colors it would make a lot more sense.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Grey - Last chance to add anything else to your claim that you may have been missing.

Im still convinced grey is scum and he is caught for both game actions he hasn't realized yet and something else that im not going to say until he responds to this just incase he decided to leave out something critical in his claim because there is some stuff that doesn't add up.

Oh I've totally left something out of my claim, no doubt about that.

The question is, how do

you

know that?

I detect a storm brewing

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the reasoning behind that?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

*GROAN*

Thanks for the abstract, now give me the facts

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I almost want to say Ircher supersaturates my scumdar to the point where he does a full circle around the meter and is back to being townie.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The pessimist in me tells me that D1 is always a mislynch on a bad townie because they're easy targets.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Like, I personally have an issue since we have BOTH Ascetics and Millers.
Also, RD should not have claimed FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS Ascetics should not.

I don't for a second believe the Miller claim and Brony needs to die by MyLo -1.

@Grey - Last chance to add anything else to your claim that you may have been missing.

Im still convinced grey is scum and he is caught for both game actions he hasn't realized yet and something else that im not going to say until he responds to this just incase he decided to leave out something critical in his claim because there is some stuff that doesn't add up.

Oh I've totally left something out of my claim, no doubt about that.

The question is, how do

you

know that?

I detect a storm brewing

No, not really. If my hunch is right, Rainbow might be my counterpart. It's the only way he should know about my limitation. There's no reason to think scum would.

I do wonder, however, why he would choose to discuss this today. His timing is utter shit.

Make up your mind dude.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the purpose of a scum claiming a role to mislynch the cop when they can just shut up and kill you instead?

There was no reason Dash had to out herself as scum to kill you in this form/fashion.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Why, as scum, would she find it necessary to come up with a fake claim to mislynch you when you can be killed at night?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Looking scummy =/= scum

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Why, as scum, would she find it necessary to come up with a fake claim to mislynch you when you can be killed at night?

Miller is a pretty safe fakeclaim for Scum if you think about the mechanics and it away a guilty hit if I target him.

Leaving me alive would quickly cause town to paranoia lynch me because what scum team would leave a cop alive?

That's why I think our scumteam has the ascetic.

Between the ascetic and Brony claiming Miller, they have nothing to fear if I'm townreading the vulnerable scum, if there is any.

I've dealt with two outed cops, no matter what we decided strongmaning the cop is the way to go and be done with it. The longer you're alive, the more conf!townies we get. It's not a valid reason if the scum have even 1 iota of intelligence.


Okay so let me ask you this, why would a scum set up a 1v1 situation where if either X flips red/green Y is the inverse Day(N+1)?

Especially considering its this early in the game, we're not talking about MyLo but D1.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Anyone that tries to work out the whole fucking thing is scum? LMFAO

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

*freezes mid sentence*

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fuck this role modifier bullshit.

1. So we have a cop we can invest people
2. Ascetics who can't be invested
3. Millers who can't be accurately invested.
4. An Ascetic enabler, who if they die, ascetics no longer exist.

Is this accurate to what we have in the game? (At least claimed that we do)

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Alisae girl, look at my parenthesis. I'm trying to get the theoretical picture before I deduce what's closest to the truth.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Cop claims don't die d1 period, even if they're shitty claims.

Exactly why he is scum. He claims what he thinks is a 100% free pass.

Like I said, absolute worst case he is scum and I get lynched here. Real cop should probably target HS just incase they were town unlucky enough to accidently buy Grey and extra day.

UNVOTE:

You may be lying but I see no reason to lynch a possible lie if you can fall on your own actions.

If you fake any guilty results on a townie, then we will know you're scum and we got the next days lynch being you.
If you fake any town reads on a scum, well it creates WIFOM about the players alignment but I'm doubting you'd risk connecting yourself to your scum team via night action like that.

If you are cop, and get a guilty then we know how that battle proceeds when its TvS.
If you are cop, and get a townie, then we know a townie.

The only possibility that is bad with keeping you alive is the WIFOMy fake town reads you could produce but that can be expected with any cop.

I see no further reason to push a lynch on you but I'll be straight up, I won't have your trust till D2.

Point of Reference, gotta think of what happens if he hits an ascetic.


P-Edit: Alisae, I'm going on the hypothetical that if Gamma is an

ascetic

Enabler then hypothetically ascetic exists or he is a townie with a name but no game.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I don't know if this will help you understand but I'm a chemist, I go hard into theory crafting and hypotheticals. Right now I'm making sure I observe all the possibilities before I break it down into different hypotheses to test on paper and see what I get.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

2. Ascetics who can't be invested

P-Edit: Alisae, I'm going on the hypothetical that if Gamma is an ascetic Enabler then hypothetically ascetic exists or he is a townie with a name but no game.

I'm just gonna leave these here.

I'm not following what you're seeing?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh sweet fuck. That's cherry picking. WHY DON'T YOU READ AN ENTIRE FUCKING POST BEFORE COMMENTING.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fuck this role modifier bullshit.

1. So we have a cop we can invest people
2. Ascetics who can't be invested
3. Millers who can't be accurately invested.
4. An Ascetic enabler, who if they die, ascetics no longer exist.

Is this accurate to what we have in the game? (At least claimed that we do)

HEY WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT.

Fuck off here if you're not here to fucking help but push small little shit like that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm going to bed, I need a fucking break before I get in another pissing match with her.


Need fucking George Washington to get rid of that damn cherry tree she loves to pick at.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So here is where I'm perplexed.

RainbowDash, under no pressure, no one voting her, declares that she

knows

Grey is hiding about something that literally no other player thought of. We then go on to her revealing she's Miller. Now, as RD!town, I can see the play being that she thinks she caught scum fakeclaiming. As RD!scum, I see no real reason as to why RD would feel the need to go under an assumption that Grey would be more than a general cop and hope she got it completely right with a miller on the off chance that it get's Grey Mislynched;

Not forgetting to take into consideration that as RD!scum, she could have simply kept her mouth shut about it and killed him that night instead of setting up this 1v1 where either X or Y is apparently scum.

So logically, I'm reading RD!town because I don't see the motivation to do all this as scum.

As for Grey, ya'll know my opinion that I don't fuck with a cop claim early on and won't lynch till D2 or so on. The vibe I'm picking up from him being readily knowledgeable about the specifications of his roles makes my gut tell me he's town. Also the sort of general cockiness showed early on feels like a new player with a sense of bravado because he got a PR role and he knows he's special.

I shit you not I'm thinking this whole thing could be a TvT

and with Asphodel telling me him lynching a scum would push for town cred, essentially being a trust tell, I don't buy it for shit and I'm willing to spend today focusing much more on him than on the cop/miller situation.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Those are two possibilities and both or one can be true, ergo why I'm going to look deeper into your ISO and interactions with other players.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You tell your scummates that you won't be pushing them, that can hold true.

You then also have the statement, as you said, waiting for town cred if you "catch" a scum. If you're telling me you've never bussed someone...

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If that's the case, lay out your scum game and your scum games so I can read them today. You have my attention all day so please talk to me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Asphodel, I really like that post about all alone, at work but I'm excited for today

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But like, why are there all these votes on people who aren't Grey or RD? It's pretty clear that's where we are lynching right now, unless someone makes a really, REALLY good case for that being TvT somehow

1187 or are you going to ignore to push your own fucking agenda?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WTF

So let me get this straight.

I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WTF

So let me get this straight.

I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

I said I understood it, not that I agreed with it. I'd go into it further and try to persuade you otherwise, but I have to leave in like 10 minutes so I really don't have time.

If it makes logical sense, then you stop fucking pushing.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You got a yin and yang PR clai D1, its almost always a lynch and its TvT, heres that example, Krylea is using the heat of the arguments to blend in and try to force you to vote either of those two. Kry, is okay with a Grey lynch, if you notice she actually doesn't ccare if the cop is lynched.

She's a scumfuck manipulating y'all into a forced mislynch

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If she was anything but miller I'd side with that

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Disprove 1187 throuhly and then, maybe I might believe you

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Rainbow claimed miller.

Post 1187 shows how they are both fucking town or at least not lynchable D1

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Because D1 town is always filled with idiots who are dead set on mislynches and Grey thinks I'm scum for actually having a brain lmfao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WHY FUCKING FAKE MILLER AS SCUM D1.

THATS A 1V1 TRADE TOWNIE TO SCUM YOU NUMBSKULL.

you don't do that shit as scum until MyLo/LyLo

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So let's work this out hotshot.

She's conf!scum in your eyes, so who are her two partners?

If she is scum, who is she connected with, how are they scum, and how are we forced into a bubble of her against you in a lynch when we can go for the next 2?

That or all this is you pushing a mislynch trying to cause as !much damage before you're lynched tomorrow

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nah, 1187 shows how I want both of you alive because I actually thought this through.

Also Krylea wants either of you two dead, she doesn't actually care which so I can believe she's scum but not with dash

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But like, why are there all these votes on people who aren't Grey or RD? It's pretty clear that's where we are lynching right now, unless someone makes a really, REALLY good case for that being TvT somehow

Care she does not, a fuck she does not give

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Once you actually catch up it'll make sense lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're just realizing that now Grey?

Or did you not consider how blatant a quick hammer would be for scum to do so they play it straight?

If you don't think its possible, go read the hunger games I played in. My own teammate was bussing me hard after I claimed a guilty on a townie. People voted for the townie because there was no scum quick hammering. What you think is impossible is actually the most likely

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You still haven't told me why as scum she would claim

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the benefit of lynching you and going through this whole process instead of just killing you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the benefit of lynching you and going through this whole process instead of just killing you?

If you can make the pros of this play by scum outweigh the con's I will seriously hammer her like I'm Bob the builder

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Finding out you're lynched is the best Christmas present tho

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the benefit of lynching you and going through this whole process instead of just killing you?

Already said twice. She was already being townread. I have no doubt she thought she could push through a lynch on me and then just say "oops, well he shouldn't have been so bad" d2.

Also, she thought I was faking a cop claim because I did so in the past to draw the night kill, so her faking the Miller claim gave her (in her mind) a chance to "prove" I wasn't the cop to lure the real cop into countering me.

Well surprise surprise, I AM THE REAL COP, SCUM.

Are you that naive to think someone would give up so much towncred to lynch a cop and be hung the next day?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm just asking more questions about the answers you're giving me lmfao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Lynching the claimed cop d-1 is a scumclaim.

Doing so frees scum up to kill another threat and denies town a chance at results if there is a protective role.

According to you its a scum claim and that means she'd be lynched

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

RD thinks you're not the real cop and the real cop keeps quiet so he isn't painted as a target N1. Fucking duh

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I have no faith that this town will understand how both of y'all are town and we are not forced to lynch either of you but when it happens, when can I say I told ya so?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I like Naomi, also paycheck just rolled in and I'm so happy

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin has made ~16 posts defending RainbowDash today alone.

16 posts in one day to defend a player that he can't possibly KNOW the alignment of unless they're both scum.

16 posts. In one day. To defend a player they supposedly don't know the alignment of as a fact.


Yeah fucking right.

If I wanted to lynch you, this would be a valid argument.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I hate the play to win rule. So badly do I want to hammer RD to show how much of a fucking idiot you're being but it'd be gamethrowing to lynch a townie out of spite against you.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Well that won't happen on this wagon

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

what type of results do you get: Guilty/Not Guilty or Mafia/Not Mafia.

Eenie meenie minie

Mafia/Not Mafia

Am I right?

A Miller that knows they are a Miller and flips as such is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Miller returns a

guilty

result if investigated by a Cop, "Miller" if investigated by a Role Cop, and "non-Vanilla" to a Vanilla Cop.

So the wiki says that's what shows up under normal guidelines

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Excuse me for using the wiki for shit I don't know about and quite honestly I'll believe a wiki over a player

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So rainbow shows up as town then you're killed, what next?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My gut doesn't lie Grey. Also if you think I'd play this shit a scum game then they need to take away my nom for Don Corleone cuz if this is a scum game I'm a disgrace to the Mafia family.

Why is it that I have to hammer? I don't hammer mislynches

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Push for it, At least it won't be you or Dash

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm calling you out on your shit. You say people are scum when they disagree with you. You threaten people thinking it will do shit but it won't.

Fucking vote me if I'm god damn scum

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I DONT VOTE TOWN, THAT WONT DO SHIT

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Its called compromise Gin.

This day needs to end asap.

Oh?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So why we do rush the day?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

i was just about to Give up hope and you had to say that

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: RD

I hope to god I've been wrong about all this

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I have never failed a D1 lynch. It fucking irritates me

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But the fuck am I supposed to do when town is dead set on lynching a TvT situation?

Only ending this shit because you're right about the PR roles being revealed

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If I die, Grey is still town

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

HA

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yo Grey, you confirmed cop now really, who's clean or scum?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

This is going to be a fun D2

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

For defending Rainbow I presume?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Wait, why would he jail you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

If I die, Grey is still town

Scum won't kill you, you're the defacto d2 lynch.

This was were the HA was directed @mate

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Anyways, as for Rainbow, I literally couldn't believe for the life of me a scum player would do something so ludicrous as to attack a cop claim D1 so my conclusion is that it had to be a legit concern.

https://youtu.be/wKjxFJfcrcA this about sums up my thoughts about the scum play

Also you can't really call yourself Nostradamus if you lead the lynch yourself lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're tunneling. YOU know you're town, but the difference here is I DON'T know either of ya'lls roles.

I wanted neither lynched purely because you would sort the mess out yourself with your night actions. I stated that really fucking clearly. I'm sorry but just because you claim a role, doesn't always make it true, especially when it's D1 and no actions are there to back up your statements.

One thing you're going to have to work on as a player is to realize that trying to game solve and end up being wrong is not, in it of itself, a scum tell.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're gonna share that popcorn right?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Grey, if you wanna put on a show, I can go put my tutu on and we can kick up some dust in style

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I might even rhyme my entire defense against your accusations, that would be fun

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Honey, that was the foundation preventing RD's damnation.
Not a single scum, who has ever won, would be the one to make a play so dumb.
Surely if you review are collation, you'd understand my simple dictation.
Not a single scum, who has ever won, would be the one to make a play so dumb.
Now please here out my frustration, as I express my lamentations.
Not a single scum, who has ever won, would be the one to make a play so dumb.

Now I must admit, it was a simple ruse and I was tricked.
Into thinking claiming miller wasn't just scum filler.
Her little skit, threw me into a fit; due to her wits calling a quits.
Now what I think is truly killer is how 4 years of play and she showed she was an amateur.
I'm forced to submit, that her claim was counterfeit but I shall move this elsewhere before my throat is slit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I realize there are spelling mistakes but for finally sobering up, I think that's pretty good

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're tunneling. YOU know you're town, but the difference here is I DON'T know either of ya'lls roles.

I wanted neither lynched purely because you would sort the mess out yourself with your night actions. I stated that really fucking clearly. I'm sorry but just because you claim a role, doesn't always make it true, especially when it's D1 and no actions are there to back up your statements.

One thing you're going to have to work on as a player is to realize that trying to game solve and end up being wrong is not, in it of itself, a scum tell.

You sure as fuck sounded like you wanted everybody to believe you knew what was best, didn't you?

But, did you? Fuck no. You were invested in keeping your scum buddy alive.

Are you even trying to think of what town me would be thinking in that scenario or are you only capable of confbias because I disagreed with something?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My eyes have been opened that when you see something so astronomically stupid and scum worthy, you fucking lynch it with fire and blaze it till there is nothing left.

Like, if we had a jester in the game I'd understand the play because she'd want to be lynched but damn it was so bloody bad.

P-Edit: You are not my father so you can't tell me what to do. It's funny because the tables have turned, this time I'm actually right in this TvT scenario.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I almost want to say Ircher supersaturates my scumdar to the point where he does a full circle around the meter and is back to being townie.

This, this perfectly describes my thought process with Rainbow lmao

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Can I quote those HA HA HA HA HA's as my bah post? I think that would fit quite nicely

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Anyways, once you have had your fun playing with this little debacle, just tell me and then I'll get back to work. I'm sure if I'm conf!scum you'd love to know who I think is and isn't suspicious.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Krylea

Reading through the ISO, there was no scum hunting that was done, what I find telling is Krylea voting Grey and then after reading why neither should be lynched or either are town, she agreed it made sense but didn't change her mind.

Also the fact that I was going to push this lynch instead of Krylea and I still think I'm going to be right on this flip.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Welp, my day 1 reads were wrong as fuck.

Still tempted to call Grey scum fakeclaiming off my day 1 gut, but at this point I probably have to bite the bullet and admit that I was completely wrong. That was a fucking bizarre gambit from RD.

I get that you guys want to lynch me, and I see why - my day 1 play was awful. But I'm not scum, and I'm not going to let the town waste a mislynch on me due to my own bad play.

I was super lazy in this game on day 1 and just went off my own gut and other people's analysis because I really didn't fucking want to go through this many goddamn pages of posts to try to do my own proper analysis.

But it seems like that made my day 1 play pretty garbage, so I guess it's time to get serious.

Not sure about how I feel w.r.t the Gin wagon. I was getting town vibes from him day 1 - but that might have just been because he agreed with me, and given how RD flipped that probably isn't looking so good anymore.

Chances that Gamma is scum are literally 0%.

Expect more content-heavy posts from me later today after I've had a chance to go through the events of day 1 again in light of the flips.

It's funny, RainbowDash also complained about the amount of pages she had to read.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Krylea

Reading through the ISO, there was no scum hunting that was done, what I find telling is Krylea voting Grey and then after reading why neither should be lynched or either are town, she agreed it made sense but didn't change her mind.

Also the fact that I was going to push this lynch instead of Rainbow and I still think I'm going to be right on this flip.

Edit

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yeah. Ircher is still scum, and we're still lynching him. But this shit with Grey comes first.

Threat instead of actually addressing my post.

I'm not addressing your post because it's dumb. I'm not going to get sidetracked into defending every post I've ever made against you flailing trying not to get lynched.

No, you can't defend yourself because I'm fucking right and you know it.

I'm not getting lynched today, Brony boy can take his bullshit and eat it in the corner.

Buddy, like half your case on me is from the first post I made off brief impressions when I was halfway through the thread. This is pure bluster.

Like, I personally have an issue since we have BOTH Ascetics and Millers.
Also, RD should not have claimed FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS Ascetics should not.

I don't for a second believe the Miller claim and Brony needs to die by MyLo -1.

I believe RD's claim waaaay more than I believe yours. The only reason I ever wanted to leave you alive is because we could test your claim later. Now we don't even need to do that.

VOTE: Grey

We're coming back to Ircher later though, you bet your ass on that. And HS, I still want to hear from you why you think Ircher is town.

Krylea, stop asking. You're not getting an answer today.

Krylea is a good lynch tbh.

I side with Grey.

His claim is a generic cop's counterpart, which I am not.

This confirms to me that one of them are scum, and if Dash flips miller, we can just lynch Grey tomorrow. It's far riskier to lose a miller than a cop.
VOTE: RainbowDash

Hm. This is interesting. Alright, I'll tentatively bite, and back off of Ircher for today and today only, since Grey is more important now anyways.

Vis a vis Dash vs Grey though, not a chance. Grey has looked scummy since the beginning and even scummier since pressure was put on him. Dash, by contrast, would have very little scum motivation to do what she is doing. And making scum waste a night kill on a miller instead of a PR is fucking great for us. I'm not okay with just giving that sort of advantage away.

Why, as scum, would she find it necessary to come up with a fake claim to mislynch you when you can be killed at night?

Miller is a pretty safe fakeclaim for Scum if you think about the mechanics and it away a guilty hit if I target him.

Leaving me alive would quickly cause town to paranoia lynch me because what scum team would leave a cop alive?

That's why I think our scumteam has the ascetic.

Between the ascetic and Brony claiming Miller, they have nothing to fear if I'm townreading the vulnerable scum, if there is any.

I've dealt with two outed cops, no matter what we decided strongmaning the cop is the way to go and be done with it. The longer you're alive, the more conf!townies we get. It's not a valid reason if the scum have even 1 iota of intelligence.


Okay so let me ask you this, why would a scum set up a 1v1 situation where if either X flips red/green Y is the inverse Day(N+1)?

Especially considering its this early in the game, we're not talking about MyLo but D1.

You are incorrect. An outted cop will not survive long and conf-townies are not as helpful in the situation dash was trying to manufacture.

@dash that's not the point. Miller + Scum Ascetic is just not likely. Grey isn't trying to imply that there was necessarily a counterpart to his x-shot cop, more that a second investigative role isn't so unlikely.
If you are miller, grey obviously dies tomorrow.

Err...why are we assuming ascetic is scum? Or that there is only one, like Gamma pointed out earlier?

3 bolded points:

1st: She doesn't want the cop alive to prove himself by investing someone. She sided with RD being town and Grey is scum and voted him. If we apply wanting to lynch a claimed cop D1 like we did yesterday, well here it is.

2nd: Looking scummy and being scum are completely opposite. Grey may have looked scummy but that gives no right to lynch someone who claims a PR role D1. Also that was a chainsaw.

3rd: I also would like to point out how you trying to sway the opinion that ascetic doesn't mean scum at this point when the first maf to die ended up being ascetic....

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Spoiler: The Thread right now

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What do you mean RD didn't flip?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Gamma, you hear the latest news? Krylea is scum

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Who voted against the claimed cop?

Also after I finish my last taco, I'm gonna rip post 1541 to shreds.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

After Grey claimed?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I don't like how Gin is tunneling me. I get Grey's suspicion of me, but Gin's case is largely built off the back of one post day 1 that he completely misinterpreted, even though I clarified several times.

It's making me suspect him more and more, and there's already things about him I find suspicious.

Gin was never on RD's wagon day 1 and repeatedly tried to defuse it.

Gin made up a case on me to try to have a new potential lynch d1 after he saw people were scumreading me.

I was the main apologist of RD, that much is true, however, with literally every theory being shot down, I'm only left to vote RD. Again, the main difference between you and I is that I didn't want Grey lynched, I much rather would have focused elsewhere because I don't lynch cop claims and I didn't believe someone could be stupid enough to try and lynch a cop claim. Now that I found that stupidity is actually a thing, I'm much more inclined to believe that you voting Grey was helping push a maf agenda.

As for scumreading you, nice misrep but I said clearly that you ignoring the logic in the post and still thinking it was okay to vote either Grey or RD was preposterous, ergo you have to be scum willfully ignoring evidence in hopes to succeed. That's my own scum read, don't try to misrep saying I saw people scumreading you and I hopped in; no, are conversation directly played part into my current read on you.

Gin was also on Ircher's wagon, who flipped town.

If you're going to say it was scummy being on Ircher's wagon because he flipped town, then how about we take a look at some of your own dialogue.

I almost want to say Ircher supersaturates my scumdar to the point where he does a full circle around the meter and is back to being townie.

Err...you were scumreading Ircher hard last time you posted. What changed? Because the only thing I see that changed is a newer wagon that popped up.

Yeah. Ircher is still scum, and we're still lynching him. But this shit with Grey comes first.

There is no way you can genuinely accuse me as scum because I was on an Ircher wagon when:

1) I begun to have my doubts on his alignment
2) Once those tried to change, YOU, came in and smacked that idea down real quick saying he was basically conf!scum.

Now, day 2 Grey made a fake push on Gin to see who would respond, hoping to catch scum. The only person who hopped on was Alisae. Now, Gin is pushing me - the other obvious lynch target.

If I've been fence sitting about my opinion on you, then it would make sense to accuse me of feeling the waters and pushing the lynch but I've wanted you dead for awhile now so that accusation has no foundation.

Again, if I am scum, why did noone on my scumteam join the case against Gin, since we are the obvious two suspects today? Yes, I see how it could be scum paranoia, but it could easily also be because a) I am town, b) Gin is scum or c) both, and I think that is the more likely scenario.

Also another point is that Grey was leading the lynch on me, so if I played this as scum, I'd let Grey do all the work and sway the votes on me. The way it was set up is that Grey would have swung high and mighty in a mislynch and that'd be a D2 mislynch with no scum having to make a true effort to gain a mislynch.


I'm going through your ISO next and showing how you haven't done much for shit when it comes to actually scum hunting or really anything productive.

Also, I seriously don't care if this is your 4th game, I'm not going to disrespect you and not treat you as an equal. I give every player the benefit of the doubt that they are trying their hardest and will only take "I'm a noob" as a valid excuse in a newbie game. Otherwise I'll see it as AtE and AtE is used by scum to persuade you into believing them because logical arguments won't work.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Damnit, sorry, don't know what happened to the first two quote bits and why no text is there

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

He claimed literally at twilight

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I also think you're confirmed scum to me but people want to ignore that, especially after dashie tried to downplay your slip.

Gonna check the validity of this but if true then that makes things real cute

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Lmao you REALLY need to read Gamma

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Heyo, I'll be gone for the next 24 hours destroying my liver and celebrating my best friends birthday, see ya'll when I'm sober

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Honey, there is a reason my name is what it is

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Again, if I am scum, why did noone on my scumteam join the case against Gin

I still think TwoFace is the most likely partner for RBD. For someone who seems as keen on considering all possibilities as TwoFace is, I find it really, really fishy that he didn't consider the possibility of Dash being scum here:

I don't even knothink what's going on but neither of you should've lynched. Cop/miller makes sense. Cop/miller/ascetic has happened before.

If you're legit, she's legit.

If you're fake, you're push on her makes sense.

I'm sure TwoFace has seen a miller fakeclaim before, I doubt he just forgot to consider that possibility. Most likely he just knew in advance that lynching RBD wouldn't advance his wincon and wanted to keep that lynch out of play.

VOTE: TwoFace

I have seen a bunch of things before but I've never seen scum fake claim miller before actually. You want to lynch me for that, go ahead.

If you're going to lynch Twoface for that then you need to vote me as well. Please realize I was also fooled by it. The only reason you should vote a player due to the fake miller claim is if the player decided to vote Grey afterwards.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

ALSO HA!

Called that shit D1, funnily enough I still wouldn't have caused a mislynch on D1

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Guys, once we get the VC 2.Lynch, look for the early-middle voters. SK wasn't outed, so there was no reason for maf to hunt the SK in the thread.

This means, essentially, that scum perceived this as a mislynch. I'll be at work but I think the best course of action is to compare the players from the D1 lynch to the D2 lynch and how quickly they voted/reason why they voted.

Hopefully it's revealing and if no one else does this, at least I'll have an analysis to give.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You didn't see Krylea as scummy?

D1 did you think Dash was scummy?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So her inconsistency to concur I had a logical argument for TvT GreyVdash and ignore it didn't ring a bell?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

voting the claimed cop D1?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Literally not producing any reads throughout her ISO?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm not hopping back on the wagon but I do remember I was going to have a conversation with him.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Alright so when's the wedding?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

All I be honest, if I vote right now it's an apathy vote. Real life matters got me bummed out but I'll try to pick my feet back up

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Page number please.

42

Please replace

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay well don't post until you're caught up and can actually understand whats going on.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

1.Gamma Emerald
2.Naomi-Tan
3.Asphodel
4.Flubbernugget
5.TwoFace
6.The RealGin-N-Tonic
7.All Alone
8.Human Sequencer
9.Alisae

Posting cuz the OP isn't updated and I need this

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The game has been quite easy at this point, two obv!scums D1 and D2, only now am I thinking I don't know where to go from here

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yeah, I still need to go do my analysis of who took what they thought was going to be a mislynch

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Does everyone know Day was started?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Naomi

Voted Grey even after claim. This has literally not failed us 2/2 and I'm willing to go for a 3 piece

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gamma town by claim
gin got both scum
AA got both scum
human got both scum
ali got both scum

TF votes Ircher/Naomi (red flip means TF town)
Asphodel voted AA then no vote
Flubber voted Naomi/ Kry (if town flip on Naomi) I can reasonably suspect going for mislynches

Either way, lynching Naomi gives us the last two possibilities and I'm happy with that

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

How do I know you weren't bussing?

Anyways, that's my thought process as I promised, im in the hospital with my Ma so I'll be paying a lot less attention after this point

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Ew its 4am, looks like I'm not going to work today

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Sooooo yeah. Naomi voted Grey after he claimed. Anyone like to defend that?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay read up again.

Why didn't you comment on anything after this? That's not like you.

The reason I am 180ing is because I have a plan for seeing if Grey is really a cop.

I'm sure my death will clear things up nicely.

Well... given your claim I think you being shot Is a given.. I mean unless another strong PR is exposed a Cop is a pretty good target.

Nothing until this post which is sort of obvious.

You see why I think you're scum? This isn't town Naomi.

Kinda was unmotivated yesterday after being chewed out for saving someone the day before. Also most of this stuff happened after I went bed. I do live in the UK so my last post was at about 10pm for me. Normally speaking i'm up all night but with christmas coming I switched to a more normal sleep pattern as I like to spend time with my family around this time of year going out and stuff. So when 10 pages pop up after I've gone bed its easy to see How It may look like I'm delaying compared to the games where I am up all night and can contribute like I did at the start of the game.

6. Naomi-Tan (+65%) - Guess I'm starting after 27 here. Serious Q -- Are you being facetious in 218? What was your read on Grey and me after making 230? 266 is a good readslist imo. 292 reads really town to me -- scum care, town don't. Starting to see what Naomi said for her introduction (and that's a good thing). 482 was a slip regardless of alignment, but that doesn't necessary mean Naomi is scum. Town "slip" all the time cuz they're less cautious. 549 gives an associative tell if either flips scum. Why did you feel the need to requite me in 660? (Not that it was necessarily a bad thing, I just wanna know why). Yeah, I kinda glazed through a lot of posts cuz they were hard to read, but I think the assessment during her intro is very accurate, so she's probs town.

Nope in 218 was around the point I put grey into the Green pool hard. I still think there green right now. There reactions and actions just look like someone who is aggressively looking for any red slip. It can be grating at times but I don't equate being aggressive and abrasive to being red aligned. It can be a red trait but I think given grays analysis and thoughts they are probably green.

In 230 my perception was you might be bad green. Lately I been unsure of that though. Gray was pretty much unchanged.

I just felt like 660 bared repeating. So It could be seen in both our iso's You drew attention to something no one else was looking at. I think it was good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I read rainbows post. She puts forward an amazing case here and entirely flipped my thoughts on gray. Like Her first section where they talk about how he assumed no RB is a thing. Like he had a go at me for assuming no day talk when its not declared. If that was his attitude towards roles. why would be also make an assumption and RB is a much more common role in my experience.

As I read the second part of RB's post all I was thinking was Why would they claim cop Day 1? They wasn't under major pressure and it just paints a huge target on themselves. Its very confusing to me.

VOTE: Gray Rainbows post Is masterful Red hunting. I don't think I would of spotted all that I'm joining this wagon.


I'll post this now and continue catchup oringally I was going to put my Ircher thoughts at the end ... so I think I will.
I'm unsure where I stand with Ircher right now. I do see the points people have made but If Gray is red and I was wrong (which I believe right now) I can't see a game where Ircher and Gray are on the same team given interactions at this stand Ircher was tunnelling gray for a while and IIRC gray also at one point voted back. If Rainbow haddn't stepped in I could see myself probing Ircher much more to try and work out their red green balance. but as it stands I feel they are likely green. I may look into this if gray flips green. but as it stands I think Ircher is Green by association.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Honestly, if I voted for TF it would be a policy lynch because he is 20 pages behind and I bet he doesn't even know Krylea is SK.

The only other consideration I have is that he could be scum purposefully slow playing so he doesn't have to deal with the current situations and just react in the best possible manner after seeing what the town thinks.

Right now I'm at an impass with TF and Naomi because I've been leaning on a Naomi scum since I read back and if TF ends up being right about it, then it saves us from a mislynch and TF just sucks as a townie when it comes to contribution.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

TwoFace and conf!town Grey both thought they caught Naomi in a slip, you can't say it's a scum motivated logic and not the possibility that it's his actual lead.

Naomi also hard defended Rainbow and pushed for Grey, which has been proven to get scum revealed/lynched. So added to that fact, I'm more than willing to lynch Naomi.

It's also good to note that Naomi said she is usually really good at getting reads right, but when she does produce them, she says it in a way that goes like "Hey I think this, but don't trust me, I'm not sure I think it." I'm seeing it as a form of fence sitting so no blame can be attached to her.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What was the case with the enabler role?

I personally don't know how far I'll dabble into that area because this is my first game with ascetics and enablers