Mini Normal 1854: Game Over


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Post Post #1850 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 am

Post by xSoniaNevermindx »

In post 1848, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Could've swore you were pushing him. So your case on Gamma is him treating himself like confirmed town? I think he knows that we know that is far from the case.
I know but I disliked the way he worded it and acts because of it it's basically like "you're stupid for pushing me because I'm confirmed town"
It's really defensive and the approach could've been a lot better the only thing that makes me hesitate is...it's gamma lol
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Post Post #1851 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:38 am

Post by Dierfire »

VOTE COUNT 3.01


Aristophanes (2): Joshz, Lil Uzi Vert
Gamma Emerald (1): xSoniaNevermindx
xSoniaNevermindx (1): Aj The Epic

No Vote (5): TwoFace, Vedith, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes, Nachomamma8

With 9 players living, 5 votes are required to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-12-31 18:30:00)

NOTES

None
Last edited by Dierfire on Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1852 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:31 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 1844, xSoniaNevermindx wrote:May I ask what the creeps sr was for in the first place?
That can be answered by anyone btw
His play was a general yuck.
Half meme, Half real, All Aristophanes ;)
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Post Post #1853 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:24 am

Post by TwoFace »

VOTE: ari
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Post Post #1854 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:51 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Please, for the love of God, don't lynch Ari before I return and have time to make my town case on him.
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Post Post #1855 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:52 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

If this day gets railroaded into another nonsense mislynch the chances of us losing this game increase dramatically.
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Post Post #1856 (ISO) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:26 pm

Post by TwoFace »

UNVOTE:

I'd love to hear it. When combing isos, his didn't look that great.
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Post Post #1857 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:28 am

Post by TwoFace »

v/la through the weekend
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Post Post #1858 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:49 am

Post by Joshz »

nobody is gonna lolhammer dw
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Post Post #1859 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:08 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

This is a typical Aristophanes scum game. He has 36 posts within two weeks, but very heavily peters out near the end (7 posts in 7 days).

This game Aristo didn't have time to peter out, but you can notice his content is lacking just fine (did Aristo express a single scumread in his ISO? no).

This game Aristo was my scum partner. You'll notice there isn't so much as an attempt at legitimate analysis here, and, guess what, heavy heavy power lurking.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Aristophanes doesn't post as scum at all (none of these games broke 50 posts, whereas here he's breaking 100). Aristophanes very severely struggles in content generation as scum (didn't really have scum reads in any of these games whereas here he's managed Creeps scum reads, pushed back against Hiraki in a significant way, he pushed LUV early, he pushed Fitz before pushing Fitz was cool, started to push AJ. There is not a single one of these scumgames where he comes close to looking anything like his play here.
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Post Post #1860 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:27 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 36, Aristophanes wrote:I'm gonna try my hand at mafia again, and I just can't believe how many people ran away already!What did you people do to these poor souls!?
I don't have a clue why anyone would replace out with this role!

So, Hi all! :)
So, with Aristophanes being someone who isn't really comfortable playing scum, a move like this is something that's less likely to come from him as scum; it's a risk that can make a claim that he's trying to make down the road a bit more difficult to navigate. In particular, this is an opening that makes more sense as a VT WIFOMing than a PR WIFOMing; VTs would be doing it to increase the chance of them being night killed, PR would do it in order to decrease the chances of them being night killed because they'd hope scum would assume the first scenario. I don't think Aristophanes would be overly paranoid of drawing the nightkill normally, and so would be more likely to do this as a VT as opposed to PR, which weakens his fake PR claim down the road as scum.
In post 38, Aristophanes wrote:Whoops, I've said too much... :S

VOTE: Fitz
Don't like the sarcasm in the jump on Io. I dislike the vote by Io on an empty slot, but I dislike your vote there more.
This is a pretty early push on a scum partner if Aristo is scum. And, also realize that this Fitz scumread held for the entirety of the day; it ended up evolving for more than just this, but Aristo never attempted to derail the budding Fitz wagon and joined it pretty much the moment it became more viable than Creeps. He also, despite the jailkeeper claim, didn't take the opportunity to back off Fitz for a minute. If Aristo was a player that was more likely to believe that he could carry as scum, I'd maybe be more willing to believe in a bus here, but since he isn't, it doesn't make any kind of sense at all.
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Post Post #1861 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:35 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1330, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 1324, TwoFace wrote:you hate it when people call themselves town? :facepalm:

We actually have proof of it though. Fitz flipped scum
No, I hate it when people act as if they are conftown when they are not. The only one who knows you are town is you, so in a public VCA, you should be assumed unknown. Making yourself the same colour as the masons is a bold statement, and coupled with your adding yourself to Futz's wagon "In spirit" despite not being there really makes me think you're trying too hard to convince yourself you are town so you may appear that way.

Yes Fitz flipped scum, but how did this conftown you?
This is a post where Aristo is attacking TwoFace (extended from the Mathblade-TwoFace conflict where Aristo sided with Mathblade and was pushing back because he thought the "Mathblade-Fitz confirmed partners" deal was ridiculous). Aristo as scum doesn't push back against universal town reads in this way; most scum players don't. It especially doesn't make sense to make an enemy out of TwoFace when TwoFace is going to be alive after scum finish off killing LUV and I, but here Aristo is pushing back against him.
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Post Post #1862 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:36 am

Post by xSoniaNevermindx »

Disagree with the 2nd part of the 2nd post
Agree with the first
And I'll take your word for the first post
The longer you stare at something the more out of focus it becomes

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Post Post #1863 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:36 am

Post by xSoniaNevermindx »

Anyone who claims pr and people don't back off at least a little bit without some type of inside info raise my eyebrows
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Post Post #1864 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:39 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

well that line of thought is bad because no one here except two face backed off
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Post Post #1865 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:40 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

i certainly didn't.
i didn't have inside information.
does that mean that you think that i might be scummy again?
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Post Post #1866 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:42 am

Post by Joshz »

i mean, he still hasnt been what id call active in this game but those are fair points.

VOTE: aj

problem now is if we clear aristo and i accept vedith as town from luv/hiraki/others arguments, that leaves aj/gamma/sonia as the scum pool and i dont like the latter 2 much as scum. aj is the slot that sticks out to me though by far. :/



pedit: i was offline during lynch iirc and wouldnt have backed off regardless with a shit claim like that. now, i did not know scum jailkeeper was a role at the time (!) but even having that knowledge id have stayed voting as it doesnt really matter.
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Post Post #1867 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:42 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1673, Aj The Epic wrote:So checking in here. Context: Fitz has started his wall posts by this post, and I think the four-call scum post (with the bad line endings that made it look like a poem) had already come through. There's reason to vote him. To this point, Ari addresses Fitz on a vote for Io(deer)(my) slot's vote on an inactive, voting for Fitz in RVS. Once more later basically on sarcasm which was basically NAI all around. Anyways, there's reason for a Fitz lynch.
The reason to vote him falls through when Aristophanes doesn't have a scum game that allows him to carry on his own. I agree that the initial vote wasn't the strongest, but the followup (Aristophanes voted Fitz for his Gamma suspicion) seemed perfectly acceptable to me.
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Post Post #1868 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:43 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1866, Joshz wrote:i mean, he still hasnt been what id call active in this game but those are fair points.

VOTE: aj

problem now is if we clear aristo and i accept vedith as town from luv/hiraki/others arguments, that leaves aj/gamma/sonia as the scum pool and i dont like the latter 2 much as scum. aj is the slot that sticks out to me though by far. :/



pedit: i was offline during lynch iirc and wouldnt have backed off regardless with a shit claim like that. now, i did not know scum jailkeeper was a role at the time (!) but even having that knowledge id have stayed voting as it doesnt really matter.
I don't really buy Vedith as town from LUV/Hiraki arguments. I don't come anywhere close to buying Vedith as town from LUV/Hiraki arguments.
Sonia I think is town; Gamma I could see as second scum if Vedith isn't.
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Post Post #1869 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:45 am

Post by Joshz »

my lynch order at this moment is aj -> gamma -> vedith -> aristo -> sonia. obviously this is prone to change after flips but thats just where my head is at. their arguments were enough to get me to stop tunnelling him at the least, and hiraki was VERY convinced in town!vedith from what i could interpret from his writing.
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Post Post #1870 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:49 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1673, Aj The Epic wrote:Exchange goes together. Gamma advocates the PL on Creeps, Ari shows interest and in fact subsequently votes for creeps on the admitted PL. Both bad by Gamma and Creeps. Major issue is there's two posts between this and his fitz vote. First, one complaining about Creeps posting a huge wall for nothing more than a line response. The second correcting a grammatical mistake in his post brought up by another player.
I don't think that Ari advocating a PL on Creeps is scummy. Gamma saying that Creeps should be PLed for doubting the mason claim was questionable to me (because Creeps wasn't actively pushing the masons, he just said that he didn't trust us yet AND it's not like both of us were going to be alive in LyLo so that shouldn't be a significant worry of Gamma's). Aristo not mentioning why he thought Creeps should just be PLed shouldn't be a dig against Aristo (why would it be?), especially when his other posts in context demonstrate that his attitude towards Creeps has been "his posts suck, let's lynch him" more than "I think Creeps should be policy lynched in order to protect the game!".
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Post Post #1871 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:50 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1673, Aj The Epic wrote:He's changing to a creeps vote from his scum read when his vote change just changes the top wagon, not pushes it farther. Which is this awkward action that shouldn't exist given the lynch between a suspected scum and a policy lynch.
As you should know from your reading, the Fitz wagon had been stagnating for a while. Hiraki just switched to the Creeps wagon at the top of that page. Capitalizing on momentum there was a pretty normal move.
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Post Post #1872 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:52 am

Post by Joshz »

btw, creeps is exactly the kind of player that PLs happen to. obviously i defended creeps and refused to vote him BUT there is definite justification for wanting to PL him day 1.
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Post Post #1873 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:54 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1673, Aj The Epic wrote:The concerning part that remains is that "Nothing town" doesn't mean "scum" and as short as that bridge is between the two, Ari does nothing to build it. There's no conviction to this wagon that is now entering a range that was about to guarantee creeps' lynch.

And really, looking back we can almost assume that Creep's wagon was a COUNTERWAGON to Fitz, a scum lynch. The one who perpetuates the force of this counterwagon is actually Ari, who basically swung the top two wagons by switching from a scum read to a Gamma-admitted (and not Ari-argued) PL.
"Nothing town" can mean scum or else the PoE line of play wouldn't exist at all.
Creeps wasn't a counter wagon to Fitz; Fitz was a counter wagon to Creeps. The reason why I'm pointing this out is because the Fitz wagon was dead in the water when the Creeps wagon started; it wasn't until I started pushing Fitz and getting support on Fitz that he became a legitimate wagon again.

I don't like you trying to build the narrative that Ari swung Creeps to save Fitz when that's nowhere near what actually happened.
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Post Post #1874 (ISO) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:55 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 1872, Joshz wrote:btw, creeps is exactly the kind of player that PLs happen to. obviously i defended creeps and refused to vote him BUT there is definite justification for wanting to PL him day 1.
The fine reason for PLing him is "his posts suck, he's not doing anything". The mason justification wasn't.
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