Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[mykonian]

votecount

Charloux (3): rb, Road Kamelot, culted
karnos (2): GuiltyLion, Lemons
GuiltyLion (2): BTD6_maker, karnos

not voting (2): ArcAngel9, Charloux

5 days till deadline.

[Lemons]

I'd also like to hear your opinions on RK.
Agreed about angel and BTD. Regardless of timezone, Angel is lurking pretty hard right now. All he's done is pop up occasionally and remind everyone how much time we have left in the day.

Charloux's frustration seems forced to me. I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting. It's also suspicious that he hasn't voted for anyone he finds scummy, as others have pointed out.

I don't buy this and neither should you. You can't understand him being upset, why not ask him about it? Why is it suspicious that he hasn't voted, why is that something that scum is more likely to do than town? Especially since other people have been asking him about it and voting him for it already.

He's already said why he's supposedly so upset, and it essentially came down to 'rb pushed me and RK made a baseless vote'. To me it sounds like someone trying to play the part of frustrated town to derail a wagon. Voting or not voting doesn't mean a lot now, since he's already been called out for it, as you said. The suspicious part is why he didn't vote before now, when people weren't questioning him on it.

[GuiltyLion]

I hate to answer for someone else, but your question is so illogical it demands a response.

My claim that you are scum actually puts me at risk. If I am wrong, and you come up as town somehow, I'll probably get lynched in return. i'm willing to take that risk, obviously, but it's a risk I am taking.

OTOH you are not really taking any risk at all by claiming you are obvtown, as the only way to prove you wrong would be to flip you or investigate you, in which case you are dead anyway. You aren't *really* risking anything by making the claim, because disproving the claim costs you your life in the game anyway.

nothing that you said runs against the point of the question. In fact, it only supports me, if anything. "I'm obvtown" is a risk-less statement, you're right. So why is BTD6 making a huge deal out of it? Whether I'm town or scum, it doesn't matter, I can say some shit or I can ignore his question, talking about it is absolutely useless.

Meanwhile, if you're serious, you ARE taking a huge risk by gambling your own life on my alignment. Don't you think BTD6 should be curious about that? Don't you think it'd be valuable for BTD6 to get a sense of your alignment and determine on his own whether your intentions are genuine or not? What you are doing is far, FAR, more impactful - and therefore scrutiny-worthy - than my throwaway "obvtown" remark, which he's dragged out for several posts.

you should have followed your first instinct and not answered

[GuiltyLion]

on RK - I've already answered several questions about my townread on RK. See here:

36 and 40 are pro-town points and inquiries, RK is calling out scummy behavior from karnos.

here:

Guilty u should answer 58 i wanna know why im town

a) I don't think 40 was proved to be inaccurate, the setup spec point doesn't matter nearly as much as your point about karnos defending himself against an accusation that hasn't happened. And everything else in 58 is exactly my problem with what karnos did. I'm on the same wavelength as you and it looks to me like you're trying to sort people. That's enough for a D1 early TR

and here:

Also, can you show me some examples of RK sorting the game?

Sure - 36, 41, 74, 145 and 171 taken together, 208.

It's pretty clear to me that RK is trying to get a grip on others alignments, rather than faking it. If you disagree and you don't think RK is town, then make the case that she's scum. Discrediting another player's townread is more pro-scum than it is pro-town.

[rb]

You're both town lol

[Lemons]

You're both town lol

Who are you referring to?

[rb]

GuiltyTiger and raknos

[Lemons]

Why do you think so?

[rb]

they aren't a scumteam. one of them is definitely town.

on top of that, i TR both of them. it's pretty unlikely they're scum

[Lemons]

Agreed that them being scumteam seems very unlikely. Where are your townreads of them coming from though?

[keyXrb]

That they're both playing like town

[rb]

That they're both playing like town

Hydraslip, that was me

[rb]

I'm more interested in why you think either of them are scum tbh

[Lemons]

I've already said why karnos feels scummy to me.
How are they both playing like town? I'm honestly just trying to get you to elaborate a bit, like you asked GL to explain her read on RK.

[rb]

Elaborate why?

[ArcAngel9]

who is scum rb?

[Lemons]

Elaborate to help us see things from your perspective. If you really think they're both town, and you are town, you would want to help stear us away from lynching them, would you not?

Also holy cow ArcAngel is here. ArcAngel, what do you think of everything? What are your reads?

[rb]

I dont explain townreads.

Arc I've already said that I think Charloux + you are likely scum

[rb]

Charloux is a great lynch today, both GL and Karnos are bad.

[rb]

BTD6 is unfuriatingly lurky and will probably need to be investigated.

[rb]

Like one of those players who are really slow and complains about hsving to read stuff in a game played by text interactions, with deadlines that mean you need to be active throughout certain periods.

I'll never be able to read or understand these players beyond the fact that when I'm town I hate them regardless of their alignment

[Lemons]

I could get behind an ArcAngel lynch at this point. Compared to BTD she's been far worse. BTD has at least given some arguments here and there regarding GL and karnos and has his vote on someone. Arc has contributed basically nothing. Seems content to sit back while we fight amongst ourselves.

[Lemons]

In fact, by encouraging the day to drag on as long as possible, without actually moving the conversation forward, Arc is actively hurting the town.
VOTE: ArcAngel9

[BTD6_maker]

How are you exactly reading BTD's push on you here? Hard to tell.

honestly BTD just makes me exhausted when I read his posts, dude's a brick wall and it seems like he's trying his damnedest to ignore the point of what I say and reframe the argument into something stupid. I'm not sure if he's scum or if he's just doing it unintentionally

That's your take on me? It may help if you were trying to understand my point - that you need to back up these claims - rather than assuming that I am ignoring your point, when I am refuting it. I am doing this entirely intentionally. I am intentionally refuting your point, which does mean I am "ignoring" what you said about not having to defend what you say. This is necessary as I cannot accept that you do not need any explanation and should be regarded as obvTown by default while refuting your claims. I am rejecting your claim, not "trying my damnedest to ignore the point". In doing so, I am not reframing the argument into something stupid.

Also, your next posts are just as bad. "Everything I've done and why it can only come from scum and not town". This is serious misrep. I did not hold you as obvscum or even a moderate to strong scumread. In fact, I held you as nullscum. In that case, why would I be convinced that everything you did can only be from scum and not Town?

I was mostly referring to karnos instead of you in that section. See these quotes from karnos:

and you conceded it was a "play error".

Nope. I said it *might* have been a play error.

But luckily you revealed your alignment by jumping on as only scum would

, so it's a fair trade.

My proposal: we lynch guilty lion. If he is town, he should be okay with being lynched because his flip will validate his argument and theoretically town could lynch me in retaliation.

Except that won't happen because he is going to flip red

.

I do want to know, BTD6 - why aren't you holding these claims up to the same level of scrutiny as you took on my "obvtown" remark? karnos is calling me scum and depending on his alignment he will naturally have different thought patterns as to why he is making that claim. My point is that his statements are more worth diving into, especially given that you're voting me already.

This is at least more interesting. You are giving me other information to scrutinise. It may be true that I have focused on you, but I can explain these as well. At first glance they may look bad, but then I realised the difference. Karnos gave reasons. (Not in these posts, but in prior posts). He may have exaggerated but he had revealed reasons earlier. His main reason was based on your comment to his post about letting him get lynched even if he was a Death Miller. It is clear that he scumread that post, and he could cite this as evidence for the formation of his reads. Can you cite evidence why you're obvTown?

[GuiltyLion]

BTD6

my point was that talking about whether or not I'm obvtown is stupid. I have no interest in doing it, and I've been over this repeatedly.

people's reads on others are what matter. not self-reads or defense of themselves