Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

[-Grey-]

Town doesn't advocate for a claimed cop's lynch on day one.

How many times do I have to say this before it registers??

[Ircher]

Fine.
VOTE: Rainbow

L-1

[Ircher]

Though it could just be very flawed setup spec imo.

[-Grey-]

Though it could just be very flawed setup spec imo.

Calling for my lynch d-1 has nothing to do with setup spec.

[-Grey-]

Lynching the claimed cop d-1 is a scumclaim.

Doing so frees scum up to kill another threat and denies town a chance at results if there is a protective role.

[krylea]

Except that you aren't a cop. You're scum fakeclaiming, and you're just trying to yell loudly enough to forestall your lynch.

[-Grey-]

Except that you aren't a cop. You're scum fakeclaiming, and you're just trying to yell loudly enough to forestall your lynch.

Keep on squaredancing. This is why you're getting lynched d2.

[Ircher]

@Grey -

Last chance to add anything else to your claim that you may have been missing.

Im still convinced grey is scum and he is caught for both game actions he hasn't realized yet and something else that im not going to say until he responds to this just incase he decided to leave out something critical in his claim because there is some stuff that doesn't add up.

I am fairly confident that's BS.

I don't want a real cop countering him

right now. For time being and hopefully to make this far easier, what type of results do you get:

Guilty/Not Guilty or Mafia/Not Mafia

.

"Hey look at me, im a miller and this is a convenient breadcrumb"

Im a cheeky pony and I freaking love it.

Yeah im claiming miller. It why I specifically asked about the

type of result

that he would get since my role is a bit vague regarding it, but heavily implies that he would be

getting guilty/not guilty

instead of mafia as he suggested.

Now your immediate thought may be as to why I question a cop when my role implies it and there are a few things that I have been thinking as to why I am pretty sure he is lying about this that don't have to do with result wording. In a bit of a spoiler alert, I think there is a better chance that he is fakeclaiming town than a cop.

1) His immediate thought of "we lynch any guilty or 'no result' D2". This is first implies he would be alive which if he is a cop... why does he think this really, especially when he has continually pushed for a fact that there is "no RB" in the game. The assumption that there is no RB is a little interesting, as a RB is a usually a scum counter for a role. The presence of Gamma doesn't increase or decrease the chance for there to be a RB unless the ascetic is scum in which case it dramatically. Either way, what is the worst case for him as scum? Call a guilty on a player like me or another somewhat hard lynch and end up not pulling it off? Best case he got out of D1 lynch, easy D2 lynch and scum is way up.

2) The game he kept referring to he claimed cop in and completely left that out of his reason for crumbing. Its why I have this really bad gut feeling that he might be VT and is completely screwing with us and I am either a red herring role or there is a real cop who was smart and kept their mouth shut. If he is going to refer to a game he claimed cop in (even as not cop) how do you NOT link that into your claim? I had no idea what Gamma was going on about early, but figured it had to be something role related since I couldn't see any play reason to make that link.

3) Ascetic. As I already stated, that is a way to weaken a role far more often than not. What else is Gamma effecting? I don't think he can be a red herring since that would be a massive curveball by the mod. Throw in a very rare role (enabler) and then give it an ever more rare modifier (ascetic) and then make it useless? Doubt it. He has to be playing some part in this game, and scum having that modifier makes little sense as it doesn't really benefit them in any way, even if an ideal situation occurs (like cop targets ascetic) as its not a clear, just a "there might be a RB" and if Gamma claimed would likely get them lynched. So its probably a town modifier, and it pretty much would only work on something like a cop. Its why I kept trying to push just incase he was lying and was a more believable one shot or something.

Not as much on a direct correlation, but a PR claim D1 is a bit more likely from scum than from town. Town wont (shouldn't) fake claim as VT. Scum who are going to be lynched without a PR claim will claim a PR at a higher frequency than exist in the game. Its not big, but it more works counter to this. A VT claim is disproportionally likely to come from town D1 when it the first player ran up.

Anyways tl;dr

My role wording, him setting up ideal scum resolutions and assuming he will be around D2 to execute it, ignoring what seems like what would be an obvious cop breadcrumb from somepony who was planning it, ascetic not really balancing with a full cop.... I think he is scum.

Really I think there is a better chance he is a VT who saw this work once and now tries to do anti-town play than he is a real cop. Either way I needed to claim here because I basically wreck a scum claim, become basic conf-town due to it and am a role that isn't even a threat to scum. That's a win-win in my book since they have to take me out or hunt other roles.

Lets lynch him now please and thank you. That was not cop play. That was somepony trying to act like a cop.

I think Raibow is being genuine.

She doubted your claim from the start and while scum have more incentive to do so, I can still see town doing that. She asks about the results which is critical imo because she seems to have a flawed understanding of the wording. If I were to take a guess, if Rainbow was a true miller, it is probably worded "You investigate as guilty to an investigative" which is the proper wording imo. On the other hand, the Cop pm makes sense as "Mafia/Not Mafia" because the results aren't a universal cop whereas miller tends to be a universal guilty for role investigatives. Is it a bad push? I definitely think so. But I feel that this isn't a fake push just to make you look bad, just a different vantage point and beliefs.

Pedit: Krylea reads as less genuine than Rainbowdash btw. He just doubtcasts your claim without even giving an inch of reasoning why.

[Ircher]

Though, with 3 prs claimed and a likely 4th unclaimed, I'm starting to get suspicious of too many claims.

[Ircher]

The NRG are against role madness and too many named townies.

[-Grey-]

Ircher, cop results are not tailored to the existence of a Miller. That's grade A Bullshit. Miller results depend on the existence of another scum faction.

The fact my results are mafia/not mafia signifies the likelihood that this is either a) single-ball; or b; multiball with a second investigative that finds the other faction (such as FBI to sniff out the SK)

THAT'S ALL. Rainbow is doing her damnedest to manipulate town and you're falling for it.

[Ircher]

Whatever. Someone hammer please.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But like, why are there all these votes on people who aren't Grey or RD? It's pretty clear that's where we are lynching right now, unless someone makes a really, REALLY good case for that being TvT somehow

1187 or are you going to ignore to push your own fucking agenda?

[krylea]

I saw 1187, and thus I understand why you specifically are not voting there. But that still leaves AA, Alisae and Aspho.

[Asphodel]

Reads list!

Lynch

All Alone

: I explained my thoughts in 1196.

Flubbernugget

: 711 seems towny. 716 is hardcore hedging his bets on Naomi's slip, which I don't like. Not a big fan of his entrance into the game or his original vote on me. Overall scum lean but there's not a whole lot to go off with this iso.

Krylea

: I don't like 1078. Yeah, I get that she was suspicious of Grey before he claimed. That doesn't explain why she went off and voted for me and then Ircher before going back to Grey. Rainbow Dash claiming miller doesn't prove that Grey isn't a cop. Gets town points for quickly claiming non-ascetic.

***************************************************************************************************

Two-Face

: Seems to be doing his own thing. His personality this far seems to be fairly consistent with what he'd predicted it would be early in the game. TF was pretty interested in seeing Ircher defend his vote on me. TF didn't seem to notice that one of the links in Ircher's writeup of me goes to an unrelated post. This is an example of good scumhunting on his part. Seems to have a few townreads as well.

Gin

: 485 is begging for towncred, so I'm a little lower on that one. I wasn't originally a huge fan of his interactions with Gamma (Naomi was right, he did keep commenting on Gamma being town early and then flipped), but at this point I'm sufficiently satisfied that the two aren't partners. The train of thought being suspicious of Grey and now leaning towards maybe trusting Rainbow Dash makes a decent amount of sense.

Ircher

: Looks more town the more I see of him. Townread on Grey actually seems pretty town to me. Like look—there’s a ton of scummy stuff he’s pointing out there. And he concludes basically that Grey’s almost conftown. Seems to me like he’s already read Grey town beforehand and is kind of forcing that into his readlist. This is a town move, not a scum one. I also think that he put in a shitload of effort into that readslist and should get credit for that. Some people will jump on his urging for me to be hammered without a claim. That's a bad move on his part and so clearly antitown that I consider it NAI. He's not lower because of earlier reasons I voted him (overly defensive of Gamma) and also because of his interaction w/ Naomi and Alisae (calling Naomi a white knight and saying she's acting differently from a different white knight he found).

***************************************************************************************************

Naomi-Tan

: I feel like this type of setup spec is something scum would censor themselves about but town might have a looser filter with. I also think her progression on Grey/RD seems town. I think scum would be more likely to take the popular position if they're late to the party on this, and I think siding with RD is slightly less popular. I also think that this sort of quick retraction she does comes more from town than scum. Would like to see her take a little more initiative in accusing other players of being red, it seems like she's playing a lot more on the defensive.

Human Sequencer

: His early reaction test on me made me think he was genuinely scumhunting even if I think the results were pretty flimsy. I like his recent posts about Krylea. 1063 and his subsequent pushing for ascetics to claim if they exist seem town-oriented to me. I disagree with his position on RD/Grey not working itself out, but I think it's the type of thing that comes from town rather than scum. Biggest thing I'm worried about with HS is his relationship with Ircher. He pretty consistently talks about how we need to wait on judging Ircher at the start of the game, which is the type of thing I might expect from scum worried his partner's getting jumped too early. I'm curious about what between like 150 and 450 made HS change his mind on Ircher.

Alisae

: I townread her earlier with this comment: "Her paranoia about lynchbait seems like it's coming from a less-experienced townie who found a new scumhunting heuristic and wants to try it out as much as possible. Her initial suspicion on Gin is actually pretty reasonable, and her subsequent vote on AA makes me think her panic was legit. I also think new scum would be far more hesitant to claim non-ascetic than she was." Since then, her vote on RainbowDash seems like a pretty natural progression from 931. I feel like someone said they thought that vote could be a bus. If it was, it was pretty fortunate that she happened to support the cop claim earlier on.

Gamma

: Honestly I'm ignoring Gamma right now.

Don't Lynch

Off on its own thing

Rainbow Dash

: See 1182 for more. I think there are issues with her breadcrumb. I think it doesn't make any sense for her to have claimed now if she's of the mindset that millers don't need to claim. I don't like that Grey was her top suspicion prior to her claim and she's still saying there's a 40% sizable chance he's townsided.

Grey

: I believe his claim. It's the more coherent of the two, and I think Rainbow Dash is probably scum. See 1182 for more.

[krylea]

Aspho, if you believe RD is scum and Grey is town, then why are you not voting RD, and why is she not in your lynch list?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WTF

So let me get this straight.

I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

[-Grey-]

Don't Lynch

Off on its own thing

Rainbow Dash

: See 1182 for more. I think there are issues with her breadcrumb. I think it doesn't make any sense for her to have claimed now if she's of the mindset that millers don't need to claim. I don't like that Grey was her top suspicion prior to her claim and she's still saying there's a 40% sizable chance he's townsided.

Grey

: I believe his claim. It's the more coherent of the two, and I think Rainbow Dash is probably scum. See 1182 for more.

It makes zero sense that you would put a scumread in a don't lynch list.

[-Grey-]

Town doesn't advocate for a claimed cop's lynch on day one.

How many times do I have to say this before it registers??

[-Grey-]

Town doesn't advocate for a claimed cop's lynch on day one.

How many times do I have to say this before it registers??

[Asphodel]

I saw 1187, and thus I understand why you specifically are not voting there. But that still leaves AA, Alisae and Aspho.

I also explained why I'm not voting for either of those two. I believe Grey's claim. I don't want him to get NK'd. I think the best way to do that is to make it so if scum kill him they have to confirm Rainbow Dash as scum.

Also on the off chance I'm wrong and RD's telling the truth maybe something happens which proves Grey's lying, like a green result on an ascetic.

[krylea]

WTF

So let me get this straight.

I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

I said I understood it, not that I agreed with it. I'd go into it further and try to persuade you otherwise, but I have to leave in like 10 minutes so I really don't have time.

[Asphodel]

Don't Lynch

Off on its own thing

Rainbow Dash

: See 1182 for more. I think there are issues with her breadcrumb. I think it doesn't make any sense for her to have claimed now if she's of the mindset that millers don't need to claim. I don't like that Grey was her top suspicion prior to her claim and she's still saying there's a 40% sizable chance he's townsided.

Grey

: I believe his claim. It's the more coherent of the two, and I think Rainbow Dash is probably scum. See 1182 for more.

It makes zero sense that you would put a scumread in a don't lynch list.

Actually that was just a formatting fuckup. I was trying to arrange the first list from "Lynch" to "Don't Lynch" and have you and RD off on your own thing.

but I'm also actually not in favor of lynching either of you today for reasons I've explained in my last post.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WTF

So let me get this straight.

I make a case as to why they are both town.
You read it and think its valid, ergomwhy you're not pushing me to change back onto those two wagons
HOWEVER
Even after concurring that it being a case that they are both town, you willfully ignore to push a now confirmed mislynch.

You're a scumfuck

VOTE: Krylea

I said I understood it, not that I agreed with it. I'd go into it further and try to persuade you otherwise, but I have to leave in like 10 minutes so I really don't have time.

If it makes logical sense, then you stop fucking pushing.

[-Grey-]

I saw 1187, and thus I understand why you specifically are not voting there. But that still leaves AA, Alisae and Aspho.

I also explained why I'm not voting for either of those two. I believe Grey's claim. I don't want him to get NK'd. I think the best way to do that is to make it so if scum kill him they have to confirm Rainbow Dash as scum.

Also on the off chance I'm wrong and RD's telling the truth maybe something happens which proves Grey's lying, like a green result on an ascetic.

Killing me does not confirm Rainbow is scum. Rainbow advocating for my lynch after I claimed confirms her as scum and I've explained why.

Vote her.