Micro 667 - Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

PsychoticDave
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Post Post #500  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:19 pm

In post 497, Human Sequencer wrote:@mod
Now that the replacements have settled in, could we please have an official deadline?

Look at the last vote count.

Grendel
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Post Post #501  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:24 pm

In post 491, nn30 wrote:[spoiler=]
Not sure if effort is AI for you but the fact that you've gone through and laid out so much on every player in the game resonates towny with me.


Weren't you already town reading Vedith?

Imo, I can produce content pretty well as scum. I'm probably more direct as town, but its hard to say for sure.

I can understand a busy irl situation. I don't want to clear you just for that though.

Your composure continues to leave me feeling uncomfortable.

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Post Post #502  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:26 pm

Hi Dave, I'm trying to kill you.

What is your opinion on this matter?

Grendel
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Post Post #503  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:13 pm

Tenshii
In post 53, Tenshii wrote:VOTE: Vedith

L-1. Serious vote. I think his early townreads are there for the sake of buddying and not for the sake of getting information during RVS.


I think that Tenshii was fishing for a lol fake hammer for reactions here? That’s the only logical explanation I chould come up with. Plus his reasoning is completely fallous. Like Vedith wasn’t dropping any town reads before 53.

In post 111, Tenshii wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.

In post 96, Creature wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Vedith turned out to be Chosen Townie given how he suddenly got to L-1.

I think Creature is town. The wagon on Creature is just completely disregarding how he arrived at the idea of Vedith being a Chosen Townie.
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.

VOTE: Misa

I think that it is interesting how he was the founder of the Misa wagon, and at the surprising rate which Misa’s wagon grew. If Misa/TTTT were to flip chosen I wonder what that would make Tenshi (probably scum tbh). Also, I wonder about the plausibility of a TenshixHiraki scum team. For some reason the two really 'click' for me.

Quickly glancing through his posts I see other instances of questionable logic, but none of the pops out as scum to me. I’m not going to hen peck at his other posts. He actually seems to want to be useful in a way that didn't look faked. Tenshii can have a nice cozy spot on the back burner.

Oh, but I would like to know Tenshii's thoughts on Dave's flip to nn30, as he seemed to think it implicated bussing on Dave's part. Is Dave scum again Tenshii?

And if he is would you vote him over nn30?

Grendel
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Post Post #504  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:20 pm

In post 499, Grendel wrote:@nn30, You think that Mew/Hiraki are town?

Why exactly?

If you explained previously then quote it b/c I must have missed it.


Actually nn, I think I'd like to hear all your town reads.

You don't have to explain all of them just shoot me a list.

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Post Post #505  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:12 pm

Christmas weekend V/LA, but will attempt to get back tonight because of deadline
V/LA on Weekends

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #506  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:18 pm

In post 494, Hiraki wrote:
In post 311, Human Sequencer wrote:yes, shadow is misunderstanding Vedith's post and the ruleset and this makes him -town-


A) Why isn't this just a person making a mistake rather than town making a mistake?
B) Can you explain your Creature townread a little more? Specific examples would be nice. The only reference I can see is your reference to 231 (in 240) and I don't see how you get that it's a town post. It's literally just his opinions - is he town for agreeing with your thoughts?

Missed this.
The mistake Shadow made is inherent to his wincon as scum. scumShadow would make sure they understand their wincon and some other information about how to go about it, and even if he missed that, whatever plan the two scum discussed pregame would confuse scumShadow into re-evaluating his understanding of the rules.
Unless it was a ploy to make me think this, which I highly doubt is the case.
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Post Post #507  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:18 pm

As for Creature, I'm doing a read evaluation and will get back to you on that.
JD

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Post Post #508  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:31 pm

In post 499, Grendel wrote:@Human, Why did you vote nn30 originally?

How did you go from scum reading my slot this whole game to... forgetting that it existed as soon I subbed in?

I had an outdated and stupid scumread on the slot because I was still playing in my old style of 'Be really bad at mafia'. I didn't really pay much attention to the game, noticed the wagon had switched and changed my vote appropriately.

I scumread Vedith like nothing else, but when a replacement comes in it fucks with me. So I'm waiting for you to produce more content. I've realized that my scumreads are garbage and my townreads are alright, so I'm tackling the game from another perspective now.
JD

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Post Post #509  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:13 am

Hiraki/Mewtaph

As I said before, Mewtaph came off as incredibly lynchable to me. And considering that outside of Shadowez's vote, him received little pressure worries me.

Spoiler:
In post 79, Mewtaph wrote:I don't like either of the competing wagons in terms of "I want this guy lynched." level. No one's really vote worthy, but Tenshii was the first person to come out of the gate with a serious vote and reasons for putting Vedith at L-1. I don't like the way he entered the wagon because I don't agree with how he said
In post 53, Tenshii wrote:his early townreads are there for the sake of buddying

I don't think his posts towards me and Human voting Human calling us town was serious, and far from what I'd call a "buddy" so the reason behind his serious vote starts to crumble.

Yeah, it's not much, but he's basically my only null lean scum read I have currently if I ignore everyone messing around at the start.


Like here, Mewtaph consciously avoids nn30, and immediately hunts off of the Vedith wagon when not expressing a read on Vedith. If Mewtaph is scum hunting off a wagon that implies that he is had a strong town read on the one being wagoned, which he did not. Looking at post 113 where Mewtaph asks for reads on Vedith is evidence that Mewtaph 1) hadn’t developed read on Vedith (lazyyy) or 2)already knew he was town (scummm).

I also think that its odd that people called this out as a bad post, but nobody expressed any interest in voting Mewtaph. Meanwhile Tenshii, mewtaph, and nn30 all jumped on Misa for a similarly bad post, and vote.
Spoiler:
In post 131, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.

Catching up (sorry!)

The thing is

why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.

VOTE: Creature

Yeah... I agree with Tenshii on this one.
Not liking this vote post.
VOTE: MisaTange

Yeah... I agree with Myself on this one.
Not liking this vote post.

Spoiler:
In post 241, Mewtaph wrote:Prodge. Siteflaked, trying to catch up on all my games. Posts should come in a bit.

If Mewtaph is the chosen townie then he would have been dog piled much sooner for having such lack luster iso at this point in the game. I should probably mention that I’ve read a town game of Mewtaph’s like a month ago. He was much more insightful, and put forth more effort to get things done. His posting this game does not manifest the same interest in game solving that I had previously seen.

His last three posts were okay, and finally displayed some legible thought processes on his part. Though I don't really agree with his read on Creature. 290 in particular struck me as a town post. Putting down reads of who he’d never lynch means that if he flips scum he would have just cleared nn30, and Vedith of being chosen townies. That's not information I'd want to hand out as scum here.

So far I don’t have much to say about Hirki. But this:
Spoiler:
In post 472, Hiraki wrote:Why are you voting Dave when nn is a lower scumread? Really don't like that vote, nevertheless the reads list

Unvote

Was an incredibly arbitrary point to draw out. Hiraki is an intelligent enough player that he should be able to read between the lines. I definitely feel like such a surface level observation has scummy motives.

It doesn't help that while Hiraki has limited knowledge in my play style. He has seen enough to know that I sometimes favor lynching secondary/tertiary scum reads over my primary ones when I feel there are benefits to doing so.

Grendel
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Post Post #510  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:20 am

In post 508, Human Sequencer wrote:
In post 499, Grendel wrote:@Human, Why did you vote nn30 originally?

How did you go from scum reading my slot this whole game to... forgetting that it existed as soon I subbed in?

I had an outdated and stupid scumread on the slot because I was still playing in my old style of 'Be really bad at mafia'. I didn't really pay much attention to the game, noticed the wagon had switched and changed my vote appropriately.

I scumread Vedith like nothing else, but when a replacement comes in it fucks with me. So I'm waiting for you to produce more content. I've realized that my scumreads are garbage and my townreads are alright, so I'm tackling the game from another perspective now.


I felt like you were town coming in, really not sure how I'm leaning now. hmp, I still by what I said earlier that if I'm not chosen then you are more likely town, but... I can't seem to shake the paranoia I'm having.

Of the wagons that have cropped up today which slots do you think are most likely to be chosen townies?

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Post Post #511  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:26 am

In post 470, Grendel wrote:
I noticed a couple unexplained reads lists/ PoE lists/ idk lists that I have some trouble understanding the inner workings of:

In post 332, Creature wrote:{Human, shaddow}
{Vedith, Mewtaph}
{Tenshii, nn30}
{TTTT}

There's one scum from two of these groups.


How did you come to the conclusion that there is one scum from two of these groups?


Creature o' Creature o'

Please remember to answer this when you come back.

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Post Post #512  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:59 am

Creature
A lot of my town read for Creature's play comes from little things he has been saying throughout the game that strike me as something that is more likely to come from town then scum.

Spoiler:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.

This remark is honestly something that I'd expect the scum to avoid. The first person to mention set up spefic stuff is usually going to get burned for it. Scum usually wait until one person gets flack for it before they use it themselves since by then its retired its usefulness as a talking point for somebodies scum motivation.

Spoiler:
In post 149, Creature wrote:Link me a game where you scumread me correctly.

This tone comes across as very cocky and it resonates town to me.

Spoiler:
In post 231, Creature wrote:Mewtaph, MisaTange, Tenshii and maybe shaddowez are useless by heart. nn30 isn't usually useless.

Creature's name dropping here goes against the archetypical pandering scum, but doesn't go so far that I'd think it was done for that reason. Unless he wanted to buddy one player that he also happen to be scum reading by throwing shade at half the roster, then telling nn30, "but you are okay I guess." Which is lol for impracticality.

Spoiler:
In post 377, Creature wrote:Vedith, TTTT, PsychoticDave, Tenshii, me

If we lynch everybody else, we win?


I know some might be inclined to disagree, but player's that form town blocks are more likely to be town in my experiences. It takes a lot of effort and coordination in some instances to pull off, and initially they come under scrutiny for being too "bossy". Unless a player is doing it to uphold meta, ei it is expected of them, scum usually don't bother.

There were others but they infringe on some secret tells I've been developing. I'd like to keep those to myself.

Looking through his posts I didn't see anything that popped how to me as scummy enough for an honorable mention. There is also the perk that he doesn't really make sense with any of my hypothetical scum teams. I think my only concern is if Creature id very good at faking his tone. Although I have read some of Creature's games before he was town in all of them, so I don't really know what a Scum!Creature is capable of.

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Post Post #513  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:10 am

TTTT/Misa-

Spoiler:
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.

Catching up (sorry!)

The thing is

why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.

VOTE: Creature


I agree that this was a bad post. It was very… hop on the wagon-y. Using points that others had already established on their own. Utterly sheeping when she had not established any meaningful content herself at this point. The post threw me a shiny scum read for this slot for sure.

She goes on to do nothing meaningful before subbing out. Misa was easily the scummiest of player roster by post 249 (when she officially subbed out) for her lack of content.

Spoiler:
In post 263, TTTT wrote:
In post 260, Tenshii wrote:
In post 257, TTTT wrote:VOTE: nn30 for writing 1000 fake posts

What posts are fake?

there are a bunch in a row that are acting







and his few posts that look like analysis are superficial



I definitely had similar feelings about nn30 while reading. So I can relate, and I get where they are coming from. Even more interesting is that TTTT goes on to scum read Dave (270). I don’t think I realized how much our reads lined up, even tho mine are obviously… ten plus pages later.

Spoiler:
In post 354, TTTT wrote:
In post 331, ChaosOmega wrote:Vedith (3) - Human Sequencer, PsychoticDave, shaddowez
Creature (2) - Vedith, Mewtaph
TTTT (2) - Tenshii, nn30
nn30 (2) - Creature, TTTT


this VC has remained unchanged since , over two days ago
under these plurality voting rules scum should have made a move if Vedith is scum
all they need to save scum!Vedith is a slight swing onto another existing wagon
and there are three other wagons!
town should recognize that this means either Vedith is town
or Vedith and I are scum and I'm terrible scum hard-defending against my partner's lynch
PLEASE TELL ME TOWN SEES THIS!


This Vote count analysis intrigues me. I don’t really see scum!TTTT hard defending Vedith. Unless I’m not chosen, and TTTT wanted to move the lynch onto somebody who is chosen. If that were the case then nn30 would be chosen. Idk if I find it super likely that nn30 is chosen though. More likely then Dave, and Hiraki sure, but not likely enough that I’d want to vote TTTT. Outside of a “nn30 is chosen” scenario this is very much a town post.

Spoiler:
In post 382, TTTT wrote:I prefer nn
but I won't fight this at deadline
VOTE: shaddowez

This switch is very… dumb. Since all that matters is that the one to be lynched has more votes than anybody else at EoD. TTTTT could have stayed on nn30 and got him lynched. This also works against the idea I expressed that if TTTT was scum nn30 is chosen. Since TTTT basically said “lol no thx” to their win con by switching off nn30. And I really don’t believe that TTTT couldn’t have strong armed that lynch if they wanted to.
Unless… Shaddowez is chosen??? Mmmn that's a little out there.

Right now I feel like several chance possibilities have to line up correctly for TTTT to be scum. This might be the most drastic change in my reads, but I’m beginning to think that TTTT is town. I think that my original scum read on Misa must have carried through deeply into my TTTT read. Probably longer then I should have allowed it.

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Post Post #514  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:15 am

I feel like I'm starting to get a good grasp on this game.

I think I'll post a revised read's list tomorrow.

Still happy with lynching Dave btw.

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Post Post #515  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:40 am

In post 498, nn30 wrote:Human's ISO is full of commentable stuff.
I'm really not sure where you can comment on anything.

It's very bland and full of short posting. It's the exact reason I wanted to revisit his ISO.

Grendel wrote:Was an incredibly arbitrary point to draw out. Hiraki is an intelligent enough player that he should be able to read between the lines. I definitely feel like such a surface level observation has scummy motives.
I am still waiting for an answer. What are the benefits in this situation?

I'm not a huge fan of your answer when you say the following:

1) Hiraki is smart enough to know why I'm doing this
2) Hiraki might not know how I play the game and therefore that's why he doesn't know why I do this

Which is it?
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

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Post Post #516  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:57 am

I like how me being bad = me being scum.
Makes so much sense.

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Post Post #517  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:02 am

@Grendel
why Dave over nn?
Dave is scum for playing bad to make town think he wouldn't do that intentionally
nn is scum for 1000 reasons
neither is likely chosen so we are safe lynching here either way

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Post Post #518  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:24 am

Yeah on a dave reread he's scummy as fuck. Far too much vote hopping, and his indignant viewpoint on his shit play reads like he has a scum ulterior motive. I'm not sure what it is, though, because he's so shite at this game I couldn't begin to pick apart what it is. The point is that it reads as disingenuous.

If this flips scum, Creature is a good candidate for chosen.

VOTE: Dave
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Post Post #519  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:30 am

The fact that nobody jumped on me for my bullshit push on Vedith makes me unlikely to be chosen
JD

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Post Post #520  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:35 am

PsychoticDave looks like a mislynch.
*ignored*

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Post Post #521  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:04 am

More deets please?
JD

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Post Post #522  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:01 am

Vote: nn

as promised basically in my last post

would rather this over dave even if he's being useless
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

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Post Post #523  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:22 am

@adachi
Human wrote:Pretty sure NN is town at this point, anybody have any incriminating posts past this point they want me to give a closer look at?

Your reasons given for voting him are shoddy at best, I don't read him as a particularly experienced or logical player, do you have any evidence to say otherwise?
JD

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Post Post #524  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:23 am

If only you replaced into vedith's slot, then you'd be a slam dunk lynch
JD

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