Micro 667 - Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #465 (isolation #0) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:00 am

Post by Grendel »

As this is my first post, I'd like to say that I look forward to playing with you all. :)

UNVOTE: who ever I'm voting.

I was only casually following this game (ei not thinking critically, no serous reads, etc) so I'll have to re-read this tonight. In fact I haven't read the past several pages yet. So I have some original content to read through.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #1) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:08 pm

Post by Grendel »

Wouldn't the best way to approach a set up like this be to lynch the people that are least likely to be the chosen ones?

So Scum are much more inclined to go after a chosen ones then “not” chosen ones. Therefore its more likely that the players being pushed harder are chosen then the players that weren't being pushed. In particular players that needed a good shove for how unhelpful they were being.

Looking for chosen ones, mainly through Vote counts, and personal insights

Human Sequencer-- possibly
PsychoticDave— very unlikely
shaddowez--- possibly, I haven't really looked at the wagon composition yet, it could be a rushed OMG EOD lynch. Which is unlikey to yield Chosen- not choosen result
Tenshii— unlikely
Grendel – possibly, BUT I have a gut suspicion that vedith would be a veto'd player due to holding more experience then the rest of the roster
Hiraki—very unlikely, due to Mewtapgh's early game posting, which I thought was very lynchable.
Creature –possibly... maybe even probably
TTTT—possibly
nn30—unlikey

But I do have actual scum reads too.

Creature, Human Sequencer,
shaddowez, Hiraki, Tenshii,
TTTT, PsychoticDave,
nn30


I'll back up the above reads with substance tomorrow since I'm going to bed soon.

I'd love to lynch somebody who is both unlikely to be a chosen one, and very scummy. :)
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Post Post #469 (isolation #2) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:13 pm

Post by Grendel »

@Hiraki ignore the possibility that I'll be pushing you tomorrow, and join me on Dave today! :)

VOTE: PsychoticDave
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Post Post #470 (isolation #3) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:25 pm

Post by Grendel »

Has anybody ever noticed that the longer you look at the smile on this site the more it looks like a sneer?

:) :) :)

on topic

I noticed a couple unexplained reads lists/ PoE lists/ idk lists that I have some trouble understanding the inner workings of:
In post 332, Creature wrote:{Human, shaddow}
{Vedith, Mewtaph}
{Tenshii, nn30}
{TTTT}

There's one scum from two of these groups.
How did you come to the conclusion that there is one scum from two of these groups?
In post 386, Tenshii wrote:Regarding the townbloc, these are the only flaws I can think of.

Dave can only be scum with nn30.
TTTT can only be scum with Vedith.
Vedith can only be scum with Creature or TTTT.
Creature can be scum with pretty much anybody I think.
Can you explain these in better detail?
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Post Post #471 (isolation #4) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:36 pm

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nn30 you didn't even say hello to me when I entered the game.


my heart is broken like... an old automobile. how ever shall I cope?

I know, lych your scum buddy with me and we can be friends again!

Doesn't that ound good?
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Post Post #482 (isolation #5) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:05 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'm pleased that the nn30 wagon took of so well, but it all seems very sudden, and is making me paranoid. Anyhow nn30:
In post 396, nn30 wrote:
In post 394, Tenshii wrote:1) Because of what happened after I posted 381
2) Why is Dave's switch scummy?
1) Fine.

2) Because he's refused to say
anything at all
all day and suddenly he's just fine with lynching me. It's lazy. I want a policy lynch on useless!Dave at the very least but I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum.
In post 467, nn30 wrote:
In post 459, PsychoticDave wrote:I just want the day to end so we actually have evidence for these accusations rather than accusing people for not being active enough.
I don't like this.

There's plenty of scum reading to be done without flips.
In post 424, nn30 wrote:Cmon guys. I don't want a no lynch.

TTTT is my number 1. I'd take a Human or Dave lynch also.
nn30, if you're town, then you need to seriously consider compromise voting Dave.

I'd like two viable lynches at EoD. TTTT/Human is not going to happen. So vote Dave. We can discuss the rest over tea like proper gentlemen.

I'm posting a more through reads list shortly.
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Post Post #483 (isolation #6) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:09 pm

Post by Grendel »

Since you're on the hot seat I'll jump right to your slot on the roster to explain my scum read.

Originally I was starting at the top of the roster and was working my way down. But nn30 is on the very bottom of the list.

So hold on a min
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Post Post #485 (isolation #7) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:36 pm

Post by Grendel »

nn30


In general nn30 seems very at ease, and confidant. This worries me because I got out of a game with him recently where he as town basically sheeped confirmed town players/ OB town leaders the whole game, and expressed multiple times that he was unsure of himself. Not seeing that lack of faith in himself here. Funnily at enough it is how at ease he seems that feels so unnatural to me.
In post 58, nn30 wrote:I'm not a fan of lynching this early in the game.

I agree that Vedith has been basically jacking off since the beginning of the game and doing this is not helpful to town. That said, I see no reason to lynch so early. I'm not confident enough in a Vedith lynch and we'd lose out on a lot of juicy info.

Human - I don't think you'd be so brazen as scum to advocate for a page 3 lynch. Town reading you.
58 Stating multiple times(well at least twice) throughout the day that longer days are protown, and early lynches are proscum. This usually goes without saying outside newbie games. The repeat of it feels like mannequin plastic level fake, and the feeling persisted throughout my reading of the game.
In post 188, nn30 wrote:
In post 186, PsychoticDave wrote:
In post 185, Tenshii wrote:Then do you have reads?

Alternatively, I don't understand any townreads on Dave.
Nope.
Town read eroding.
188 Safe distancing tactic. “What you did there was kinda scummy” *proceeds to do nothing about it* nn30 keeps viewing Dave as a tertiary read, but hasn't done much by it.
In post 200, nn30 wrote:
In post 196, Vedith wrote:
In post 195, nn30 wrote:Why are you scum reading me human
If you're actually town and not scum, it's probably because you're not a chosen one and Human is trying to mark you as one hoping for my flip of chosen. :up:
As I said, 1 for 1 is good for them, then to paint someone else as a chosen, cherry on top.
Scum like to do setup spec to fake content.

However, this speculation feels genuine for some reason.

TR for it - though this is subject to change in later days.
200 He does this thing were he just repeatedly tacks a scum tell when he votes in the duration of this game and it pings me so hard. Like he has a need to overcompensate for his vote or something. Why not post a case of substance if he cared so much. I know that nn30 is capable of working much harder then he has been so far this game. :/

The consistent pressure on TTTT bothers me because out of my sr's I think that TTTT is the most likely one to actually be a chosen town just based on how their wagon composition has looked in the past, and how everybody who was initially scum reading Misa seem to have carried this read all the way to here. But I'll get into this more when I get to TTTTT.

Ultimately a lot of this is gut + previous experiences. Lately my Meta on others has been… less then accurate, and I’m open to being wrong here.

Hopefully I can get some commentary from other players on this and other reads before a lynch comes.
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Post Post #486 (isolation #8) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:39 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 484, nn30 wrote:
Why, if I'm your top scum read, are you advocating for me to vote Dave instead? Wouldn't you just want to off me and get it over with?
B/c if you flip town and I didn't work with you at all this game I would feel like a horrible player.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #9) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:05 pm

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Human Sequencer

My town read is based on my belief that Vedith would be veto’d. If I’m not the chosen one the likely hood that Human would spend the entirety of D1 planted on a lynch that wouldn’t further their win-con seems unlikely.

However this sudden flip onto a new wagon when I had not even justified my town read on them bothers me a little.

Even more so when you consider that I was OB scum for like 90% of the game to them. :shifty:

PsychoticDave


My belief is firmly that he is a either mafia, or not a chosen townie. This is stemmed from his poor iso, he can’t be a chosen one if he were making bad posts such as:
Spoiler:
In post 34, PsychoticDave wrote:
In post 33, Creature wrote:Don't vote Human, vote Human Sequencer (or maybe HS).
You have the absolutely worst reasoning for putting Human at L-1 on P1.
I'm convinced you're bad scum.
In post 184, PsychoticDave wrote:
In post 183, Tenshii wrote:
In post 169, Vedith wrote:Feelbad to those with less posts than mod.
Bwahahahaha.

@Dave why are you scumreading Vedith? If you still are?

@Misa why do you scumread Creature?
I never said I was scumreading Vedith. I just don't like playing with Vedith.
In post 186, PsychoticDave wrote:
In post 185, Tenshii wrote:Then do you have reads?

Alternatively, I don't understand any townreads on Dave.
Nope.
In post 326, PsychoticDave wrote:I've still said all I have to say.
I'm just waiting for the day to end.

He uses the god awful, "Well their either scum or bad town" argument. Voting people just because he doesn't like them. Cutting of discussion -multiple times-.Then he just throws in the towel. The rest of his posts are him repeating how he wants the day to end plus necked votes to show just how "done" he is with this day. Scum would rip him apart for dinner in he were one of the chosen ones. This suggests to me that he is either mafia, or not chosen town since scum are ignoring lynch bait for their preferred, "chosen", targets. Which frankly, is why I think he is the ideal lynch for today.

His behavior also reminds me a lot of a newbie game I was in were my scum buddy acted overtly antitown on D1 in the most ham-fisted way he could muster. He outright refuse to scum hunt, preached about the statistical unlikeness that town lynches scum D1, and the all D1 lynches are basically random. He cruised into lylo by being so vocally unhelpful, and I’m seeing a parallel here with Dave. Dave complains how there is nothing going on, then ironically refuses to add new content to the table, then talks about wanting to end the day.

These things are so unhelpful that town is all writing it off as too brazen to come from scum. When it Is all so over the top that it feels, and looks completely intentional to me!
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Post Post #488 (isolation #10) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:14 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 486, Grendel wrote:
In post 484, nn30 wrote:
Why, if I'm your top scum read, are you advocating for me to vote Dave instead? Wouldn't you just want to off me and get it over with?
B/c if you flip town and I didn't work with you at all this game I would feel like a horrible player.
Oh yes, aside from the touching hand extension I do think that there are universes out there were you could flip chosen. Especially once I saw the rate your wagon reach L-1 at the page top.

I see no such thing for Davey, and why I think he could be the better lynch.

All thing considered, as long as we don't lynch chosen by mistake town will always win. Weather or not town lynches scum. I really think that scum reads should be secondary to uh... "chosen reads". Unfortently noboby else seems to realize this. :/
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Post Post #489 (isolation #11) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:33 pm

Post by Grendel »

Shaddowez-

Spoiler:
In post 158, shaddowez wrote:This game is ridiculous to read.

Pretty sure Creature is town here. There was no reason to unvote Human if he was scum, since getting a wagon to L-1 in RVS isn't unheard of, and if someone else derphammered he could have easily justified it. Additionally pointing out Misa's vote count in makes no sense as scum.

mewtaph has nothing in their ISO except for agreeing with/not agreeing with reads. He says nothing about his read on Vedith in , but says he likes everyone on it as town except Tenshii then votes Tenshii. Asks Misa for reads in , then sheeps a vote on her in before she answers.

Vedith is impossible to read, as usual, but if mew flips scum I wouldn't be surprised if that's a partner based on 76. and add to this feeling as well.

I don't like Human tunneling on Vedith like he is, but I don't know if it's scummy.

Still trying to parse through everything else, but want to do this for now.

VOTE: mewtaph


I actually really liked his points on Mewtaph in 158. I also think that it was interesting how he brought this point up to discussion but was largely ignored. And what this implicates about Mew.

Spoiler:
In post 302, shaddowez wrote:Except you're not, which is the scummy part. You're throwing all sorts of shade (,, ,), but you never vote me or try to convince anyone else I'm scum. All you do is say I'm scum for lurking/dodging, but would rather lynch somebody else first. Additionally, if you actually thought I was scum way back in 165 for a "scum slip", you would've pushed me a hell of a lot harder.

Haven't seen a recent VC yet, but don't really care.

VOTE: Vedith
In post 307, shaddowez wrote:More specifically from that post:
In post 305, shaddowez wrote:
In post 196, Vedith wrote:
In post 195, nn30 wrote:Why are you scum reading me human
If you're actually town and not scum, it's probably because you're not a chosen one and
Human is trying to mark you as one hoping for my flip of chosen.
:up:
As I said, 1 for 1 is good for them, then to paint someone else as a chosen, cherry on top.
If Human is scum like Vedith is saying, he doesn't need to
hope
for Vedith to flip as chosen, he would know if Vedith was or not.



In his case on Vedith that largely stems from his gut. Its apparent that Vedith had Shadow as a tertiary read which is… common from any alignment. Shaddowez scum read is largely reactionary fmpov, and not very telling into his alignment beyond that he might play emotionally as one of them(302). The “scum slip” that Shadowez pointed out at in 305, and 307, dosen’t make any sense to me. In fact it seems more likely that town would misinterpret the rules to the game then mafia.

Spoiler:
In post 448, shaddowez wrote:DL is paused, so unless someone hammers I don't how I'm the definite lynch, that can easily swing.

Just saw that Vedith is replacing out, but I still think that slot is scum. I hate preflip associatives, but the other strong scum read I have at this time in Tenshii.

Dave is playing like a VI, but I don't think he's scum.

I think you're town, and I think Human is town.

nn30 is playing similarly to the other game I was in with him where he was scum, and his comment about me in gives me the jeebies.

I was originally reading Mew as scum, but their play was getting better, but that's another slot that is getting replaced so I wouldn't want to do anything with it.

I have to read TTTT again, but I have a gut town read on that slot.



For some reason his paranoia for nn30 in 448 seem incredibility genuine to me. I didn’t like how he decided to unvote my slot just because I was replacing in. He seemed so positive that my slot was scum, but the dropped it once Vedith was no longer playing. I’d like to think he was just following parliamentary procedure to be nice but idk.

I didn’t find anything insightful on his wagon, other then being bothered that it wasn’t on Dave whose posting is significantly worse, or nn30 for his scuminess. It also had this fluid quality that irked my like it was scum motivated. Town rarely come to such a natural cohesive conclusion by themselves when scum hunting. Usally mafia can make things smooth like grease, or slow like molasses D1. Unless you have lots of good town players, which um...

Ehh he might evolve into a town read depending. Im currently null.
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Post Post #490 (isolation #12) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:34 pm

Post by Grendel »

I actually really have to go to bed now.

I'll finish this tomarrow.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #13) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:14 am

Post by Grendel »

@nn30, You think that Mew/Hiraki are town?

Why exactly?

If you explained previously then quote it b/c I must have missed it.

@Human, Why did you vote nn30 originally?

How did you go from scum reading my slot this whole game to... forgetting that it existed as soon I subbed in?
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Post Post #501 (isolation #14) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:24 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 491, nn30 wrote:
Spoiler:

Not sure if effort is AI for you but the fact that you've gone through and laid out so much on every player in the game resonates towny with me.
Weren't you already town reading Vedith?

Imo, I can produce content pretty well as scum. I'm probably more direct as town, but its hard to say for sure.

I can understand a busy irl situation. I don't want to clear you just for that though.

Your composure continues to leave me feeling uncomfortable.
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Post Post #502 (isolation #15) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:26 am

Post by Grendel »

Hi Dave, I'm trying to kill you.

What is your opinion on this matter?
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Post Post #503 (isolation #16) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:13 am

Post by Grendel »

Tenshii
In post 53, Tenshii wrote:VOTE: Vedith

L-1. Serious vote. I think his early townreads are there for the sake of buddying and not for the sake of getting information during RVS.
I think that Tenshii was fishing for a lol fake hammer for reactions here? That’s the only logical explanation I chould come up with. Plus his reasoning is completely fallous. Like Vedith wasn’t dropping any town reads before 53.
In post 111, Tenshii wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.
In post 96, Creature wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Vedith turned out to be Chosen Townie given how he suddenly got to L-1.
I think Creature is town. The wagon on Creature is just completely disregarding how he arrived at the idea of Vedith being a Chosen Townie.
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.
VOTE: Misa
I think that it is interesting how he was the founder of the Misa wagon, and at the surprising rate which Misa’s wagon grew. If Misa/TTTT were to flip chosen I wonder what that would make Tenshi (probably scum tbh). Also, I wonder about the plausibility of a TenshixHiraki scum team. For some reason the two really 'click' for me.

Quickly glancing through his posts I see other instances of questionable logic, but none of the pops out as scum to me. I’m not going to hen peck at his other posts. He actually seems to want to be useful in a way that didn't look faked. Tenshii can have a nice cozy spot on the back burner.

Oh, but I would like to know Tenshii's thoughts on Dave's flip to nn30, as he seemed to think it implicated bussing on Dave's part. Is Dave scum again Tenshii?

And if he is would you vote him over nn30?
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Post Post #504 (isolation #17) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:20 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 499, Grendel wrote:@nn30, You think that Mew/Hiraki are town?

Why exactly?

If you explained previously then quote it b/c I must have missed it.
Actually nn, I think I'd like to hear all your town reads.

You don't have to explain all of them just shoot me a list.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #18) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:13 pm

Post by Grendel »

Hiraki/Mewtaph


As I said before, Mewtaph came off as incredibly lynchable to me. And considering that outside of Shadowez's vote, him received little pressure worries me.

Spoiler:
In post 79, Mewtaph wrote:I don't like either of the competing wagons in terms of "I want this guy lynched." level. No one's really vote worthy, but Tenshii was the first person to come out of the gate with a serious vote and reasons for putting Vedith at L-1. I don't like the way he entered the wagon because I don't agree with how he said
In post 53, Tenshii wrote:his early townreads are there for the sake of buddying
I don't think his posts towards me and Human voting Human calling us town was serious, and far from what I'd call a "buddy" so the reason behind his serious vote starts to crumble.

Yeah, it's not much, but he's basically my only null lean scum read I have currently if I ignore everyone messing around at the start.


Like here, Mewtaph consciously avoids nn30, and immediately hunts off of the Vedith wagon when not expressing a read on Vedith. If Mewtaph is scum hunting off a wagon that implies that he is had a strong town read on the one being wagoned, which he did not. Looking at post 113 where Mewtaph asks for reads on Vedith is evidence that Mewtaph 1) hadn’t developed read on Vedith (lazyyy) or 2)already knew he was town (scummm).

I also think that its odd that people called this out as a bad post, but nobody expressed any interest in voting Mewtaph. Meanwhile Tenshii, mewtaph, and nn30 all jumped on Misa for a similarly bad post, and vote.
Spoiler:
In post 131, Mewtaph wrote:
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.
Catching up (sorry!)

The thing is

why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.

VOTE: Creature
Yeah... I agree with Tenshii on this one.
Not liking this vote post.
VOTE: MisaTange

Yeah... I agree with Myself on this one.
Not liking this vote post.

Spoiler:
In post 241, Mewtaph wrote:Prodge. Siteflaked, trying to catch up on all my games. Posts should come in a bit.

If Mewtaph is the chosen townie then he would have been dog piled much sooner for having such lack luster iso at this point in the game. I should probably mention that I’ve read a town game of Mewtaph’s like a month ago. He was much more insightful, and put forth more effort to get things done. His posting this game does not manifest the same interest in game solving that I had previously seen.

His last three posts were okay, and finally displayed some legible thought processes on his part. Though I don't really agree with his read on Creature. 290 in particular struck me as a town post. Putting down reads of who he’d never lynch means that if he flips scum he would have just cleared nn30, and Vedith of being chosen townies. That's not information I'd want to hand out as scum here.

So far I don’t have much to say about Hirki. But this:
Spoiler:
In post 472, Hiraki wrote:Why are you voting Dave when nn is a lower scumread? Really don't like that vote, nevertheless the reads list

Unvote

Was an incredibly arbitrary point to draw out. Hiraki is an intelligent enough player that he should be able to read between the lines. I definitely feel like such a surface level observation has scummy motives.

It doesn't help that while Hiraki has limited knowledge in my play style. He has seen enough to know that I sometimes favor lynching secondary/tertiary scum reads over my primary ones when I feel there are benefits to doing so.
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Post Post #510 (isolation #19) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:20 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 508, Human Sequencer wrote:
In post 499, Grendel wrote:@Human, Why did you vote nn30 originally?

How did you go from scum reading my slot this whole game to... forgetting that it existed as soon I subbed in?
I had an outdated and stupid scumread on the slot because I was still playing in my old style of 'Be really bad at mafia'. I didn't really pay much attention to the game, noticed the wagon had switched and changed my vote appropriately.

I scumread Vedith like nothing else, but when a replacement comes in it fucks with me. So I'm waiting for you to produce more content. I've realized that my scumreads are garbage and my townreads are alright, so I'm tackling the game from another perspective now.
I felt like you were town coming in, really not sure how I'm leaning now. hmp, I still by what I said earlier that if I'm not chosen then you are more likely town, but... I can't seem to shake the paranoia I'm having.

Of the wagons that have cropped up today which slots do you think are most likely to be chosen townies?
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Post Post #511 (isolation #20) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 470, Grendel wrote:
I noticed a couple unexplained reads lists/ PoE lists/ idk lists that I have some trouble understanding the inner workings of:
In post 332, Creature wrote:{Human, shaddow}
{Vedith, Mewtaph}
{Tenshii, nn30}
{TTTT}

There's one scum from two of these groups.
How did you come to the conclusion that there is one scum from two of these groups?
Creature o' Creature o'

Please remember to answer this when you come back.
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Post Post #512 (isolation #21) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:59 pm

Post by Grendel »

Creature

A lot of my town read for Creature's play comes from little things he has been saying throughout the game that strike me as something that is more likely to come from town then scum.

Spoiler:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.

This remark is honestly something that I'd expect the scum to avoid. The first person to mention set up spefic stuff is usually going to get burned for it. Scum usually wait until one person gets flack for it before they use it themselves since by then its retired its usefulness as a talking point for somebodies scum motivation.

Spoiler:
In post 149, Creature wrote:Link me a game where you scumread me correctly.

This tone comes across as very cocky and it resonates town to me.

Spoiler:
In post 231, Creature wrote:Mewtaph, MisaTange, Tenshii and maybe shaddowez are useless by heart. nn30 isn't usually useless.

Creature's name dropping here goes against the archetypical pandering scum, but doesn't go so far that I'd think it was done for that reason. Unless he wanted to buddy one player that he also happen to be scum reading by throwing shade at half the roster, then telling nn30, "but you are okay I guess." Which is lol for impracticality.

Spoiler:
In post 377, Creature wrote:Vedith, TTTT, PsychoticDave, Tenshii, me

If we lynch everybody else, we win?


I know some might be inclined to disagree, but player's that form town blocks are more likely to be town in my experiences. It takes a lot of effort and coordination in some instances to pull off, and initially they come under scrutiny for being too "bossy". Unless a player is doing it to uphold meta, ei it is expected of them, scum usually don't bother.

There were others but they infringe on some secret tells I've been developing. I'd like to keep those to myself.

Looking through his posts I didn't see anything that popped how to me as scummy enough for an honorable mention. There is also the perk that he doesn't really make sense with any of my hypothetical scum teams. I think my only concern is if Creature id very good at faking his tone. Although I have read some of Creature's games before he was town in all of them, so I don't really know what a Scum!Creature is capable of.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #22) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:10 pm

Post by Grendel »

TTTT/Misa-


Spoiler:
In post 106, MisaTange wrote:
In post 89, Creature wrote:If you vote Vedith, you might hammer a chosen townie.
Catching up (sorry!)

The thing is

why mention Vedith in particular? nn (the counterwagon) could also be Chosen Townie, and this suggests knowledge of who are Chosen Townies, which mafia only knows.

VOTE: Creature


I agree that this was a bad post. It was very… hop on the wagon-y. Using points that others had already established on their own. Utterly sheeping when she had not established any meaningful content herself at this point. The post threw me a shiny scum read for this slot for sure.

She goes on to do nothing meaningful before subbing out. Misa was easily the scummiest of player roster by post 249 (when she officially subbed out) for her lack of content.

Spoiler:
In post 263, TTTT wrote:
In post 260, Tenshii wrote:
In post 257, TTTT wrote:VOTE: nn30 for writing 1000 fake posts
What posts are fake?
there are a bunch in a row that are acting







and his few posts that look like analysis are superficial



I definitely had similar feelings about nn30 while reading. So I can relate, and I get where they are coming from. Even more interesting is that TTTT goes on to scum read Dave (270). I don’t think I realized how much our reads lined up, even tho mine are obviously… ten plus pages later.

Spoiler:
In post 354, TTTT wrote:
In post 331, ChaosOmega wrote:Vedith (3) - Human Sequencer, PsychoticDave, shaddowez
Creature (2) - Vedith, Mewtaph
TTTT (2) - Tenshii, nn30
nn30 (2) - Creature, TTTT
this VC has remained unchanged since , over two days ago
under these plurality voting rules scum should have made a move if Vedith is scum
all they need to save scum!Vedith is a slight swing onto another existing wagon
and there are three other wagons!
town should recognize that this means either Vedith is town
or Vedith and I are scum and I'm terrible scum hard-defending against my partner's lynch
PLEASE TELL ME TOWN SEES THIS!


This Vote count analysis intrigues me. I don’t really see scum!TTTT hard defending Vedith. Unless I’m not chosen, and TTTT wanted to move the lynch onto somebody who is chosen. If that were the case then nn30 would be chosen. Idk if I find it super likely that nn30 is chosen though. More likely then Dave, and Hiraki sure, but not likely enough that I’d want to vote TTTT. Outside of a “nn30 is chosen” scenario this is very much a town post.

Spoiler:
In post 382, TTTT wrote:I prefer nn
but I won't fight this at deadline
VOTE: shaddowez

This switch is very… dumb. Since all that matters is that the one to be lynched has more votes than anybody else at EoD. TTTTT could have stayed on nn30 and got him lynched. This also works against the idea I expressed that if TTTT was scum nn30 is chosen. Since TTTT basically said “lol no thx” to their win con by switching off nn30. And I really don’t believe that TTTT couldn’t have strong armed that lynch if they wanted to.
Unless… Shaddowez is chosen??? Mmmn that's a little out there.

Right now I feel like several chance possibilities have to line up correctly for TTTT to be scum. This might be the most drastic change in my reads, but I’m beginning to think that TTTT is town. I think that my original scum read on Misa must have carried through deeply into my TTTT read. Probably longer then I should have allowed it.
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Post Post #514 (isolation #23) » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:15 pm

Post by Grendel »

I feel like I'm starting to get a good grasp on this game.

I think I'll post a revised read's list tomorrow.

Still happy with lynching Dave btw.
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Post Post #529 (isolation #24) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:36 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 515, Hiraki wrote:
Grendel wrote:Was an incredibly arbitrary point to draw out. Hiraki is an intelligent enough player that he should be able to read between the lines. I definitely feel like such a surface level observation has scummy motives.
I am still waiting for an answer. What are the benefits in this situation?
Town will always win as long as they avoid lynching the chosen ones correct? Then who is and isn't chosen is more important then who is scum.

Like in a 5 way lylo with 2 chosen ones, 1 regular town, and two mafia. A long as the chosen town aren't lynched town wins, the regular town being lynched results in town wining because mafia can't endgame the chosen ones together, and of course lynching mafia results in town's victory.
I'm not a huge fan of your answer when you say the following:

1) Hiraki is smart enough to know why I'm doing this
2) Hiraki might not know how I play the game and therefore that's why he doesn't know why I do this

Which is it?
Option 2 doesn't even exist. I've explicitly said that you've seen me favor lynching secondary/tertiary scum reads over my primary ones.

Did you just skim 509 or...?
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Post Post #537 (isolation #25) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:47 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 517, TTTT wrote:@Grendel
why Dave over nn?
Dave is scum for playing bad to make town think he wouldn't do that intentionally
nn is scum for 1000 reasons
neither is likely chosen so we are safe lynching here either way
B/c I lik nn more :P

But really, the rapidity of nn30's wagon gave me some last second jeebies that he was chosen.

Especially when Dave hopped on putting it to L-1. I think that scum will be inclined to hop on a chosen one's wagon near the end, and blame the person who hammered going into the next day. Or maybe the person who started the wagon. Any case I thought the forth slot is where scum are more likely to jump on here.

Do you still prefer nn30 over Dave?

I mean, I won't cry if nn30 gets lynched, but at this point my scum read isn't as strong there as it was originally. Dave is much better.
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Post Post #540 (isolation #26) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:51 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 535, Creature wrote:Though, I've seen nn30 being more active before, not this depressive lackluster.
I've seen more active nn30 too, but he was citing irl reasons so that is a tough call to make.

Preedit: Except he was regularly touching top poster in a game with hyper posters. This game has been pretty slow in comparison.
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Post Post #547 (isolation #27) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:54 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 520, Creature wrote:PsychoticDave looks like a mislynch.
Why is that?

His wagon lacks the fluidly of many others this game. Wouldn'y that mean that scum don't want this lynch to happen?

Ethier that or town is refusing to accept that mafia being anti-town is slowly creeping into site meta.
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Post Post #551 (isolation #28) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:59 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 530, Human Sequencer wrote:
In post 529, Grendel wrote:
In post 515, Hiraki wrote:
Town will always win as long as they avoid lynching the chosen ones correct? Then who is and isn't chosen is more important then who is scum.

Like in a 5 way lylo with 2 chosen ones, 1 regular town, and two mafia. A long as the chosen town aren't lynched town wins, the regular town being lynched results in town wining because mafia can't endgame the chosen ones together, and of course lynching mafia results in town's victory.
Though this is true, I've been mostly ignoring the whole chosen townie thing. It's a secondary wincon town shouldn't even need, especially considering it forces scum to over-extend in obvious ways. A chosen flip is almost more helpful than a scum flip in terms of associations.
Perhaps. I just like playing with set up spec stuff in mind when I play games like these.

MS players seem to fight playing the into a set up if they don't have too. :/
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Post Post #555 (isolation #29) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:03 am

Post by Grendel »

Was that directed at me?

Anycase, would you like to talk a bit Creature?
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Post Post #557 (isolation #30) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:13 am

Post by Grendel »

TTTT is my top chosen suspect.

The second falls between you, me, shadowez, maybe even nn30.

I highly doubt there is a chosen one in: Human, Tenshii, Hiraki, or Dave
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Post Post #559 (isolation #31) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:16 am

Post by Grendel »

The reason I'm considering myself at all is because Dave sat so long on Vedith.

I really don't understand why Mafia wouldn't choose to veto the most experienced on the roster.

Pre-edit: Why wouldn't they?
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Post Post #575 (isolation #32) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:01 am

Post by Grendel »

@Creature

Do you still have a town block?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hiraki wrote:
In post 529, Grendel wrote:I've explicitly said that you've seen me favor lynching secondary/tertiary scum reads over my primary ones.
Keyword: might - there were no definite in my statement. This is literally the first time we have played. If I'm wrong, I honestly don't remember off-hand.

I actually did not know. I know people that do that and I know people like me who do not enjoy quick compromises on second/third scumreads if they're that far down the list.
Well we didn't actually play together, but it was in game where I was spectating while posting reads. You're dead there so you would have seen them.

I was reasoning that I'd rather lynch my secondary scum read because they made sense with more scum teams then the primary scum read did. Its not a prefect tie to this situation, but does demonstrate that I don't always tie my vote to my top sr.

I'm not naming names for obvious reasons.
In post 547, Grendel wrote:His wagon lacks the fluidly of many others this game. Wouldn'y that mean that scum don't want this lynch to happen?
This is very assumptive. Dave is also the one player people are uneasy to comment on. I don't think it's due to alignment reasons.
A lot of people voiced opinions that a Dave lynch is okay throughout D1. But nobody actually did anything about it. That seemed... off to me. Why shade with no votes, if he were town actnng this way he is lynch baity, but up until now he hasn't gotten more then a vote or two throughout D1.

Why would scum be avoiding town!Dave?
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Post Post #581 (isolation #33) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:52 am

Post by Grendel »

In post 548, Creature wrote:Meh, I keep looking at the games he played so far and he has been mislynched a couple of times. Maybe you should take a look too.
I just checked out Dave's other games. He does get mislynched a lot.

He doesn't have any completed scum games, but I'd imagine that there isn't much of a difference between them.

Anyways, last time I put off lynching somebody who was lynch bait, they flipped scum, and I was lynched for it.
Creature wrote:I think I am only willing to townblock with TTTT right now, maybe shaddowez, but I would like more opinions on him.
Well here is what I said about him a few pages ago.
In post 489, Grendel wrote:
Shaddowez-

Spoiler:
In post 158, shaddowez wrote:This game is ridiculous to read.

Pretty sure Creature is town here. There was no reason to unvote Human if he was scum, since getting a wagon to L-1 in RVS isn't unheard of, and if someone else derphammered he could have easily justified it. Additionally pointing out Misa's vote count in makes no sense as scum.

mewtaph has nothing in their ISO except for agreeing with/not agreeing with reads. He says nothing about his read on Vedith in , but says he likes everyone on it as town except Tenshii then votes Tenshii. Asks Misa for reads in , then sheeps a vote on her in before she answers.

Vedith is impossible to read, as usual, but if mew flips scum I wouldn't be surprised if that's a partner based on 76. and add to this feeling as well.

I don't like Human tunneling on Vedith like he is, but I don't know if it's scummy.

Still trying to parse through everything else, but want to do this for now.

VOTE: mewtaph


I actually really liked his points on Mewtaph in 158. I also think that it was interesting how he brought this point up to discussion but was largely ignored. And what this implicates about Mew.

Spoiler:
In post 302, shaddowez wrote:Except you're not, which is the scummy part. You're throwing all sorts of shade (,, ,), but you never vote me or try to convince anyone else I'm scum. All you do is say I'm scum for lurking/dodging, but would rather lynch somebody else first. Additionally, if you actually thought I was scum way back in 165 for a "scum slip", you would've pushed me a hell of a lot harder.

Haven't seen a recent VC yet, but don't really care.

VOTE: Vedith
In post 307, shaddowez wrote:More specifically from that post:
In post 305, shaddowez wrote:
In post 196, Vedith wrote:
In post 195, nn30 wrote:Why are you scum reading me human
If you're actually town and not scum, it's probably because you're not a chosen one and
Human is trying to mark you as one hoping for my flip of chosen.
:up:
As I said, 1 for 1 is good for them, then to paint someone else as a chosen, cherry on top.
If Human is scum like Vedith is saying, he doesn't need to
hope
for Vedith to flip as chosen, he would know if Vedith was or not.



In his case on Vedith that largely stems from his gut. Its apparent that Vedith had Shadow as a tertiary read which is… common from any alignment. Shaddowez scum read is largely reactionary fmpov, and not very telling into his alignment beyond that he might play emotionally as one of them(302). The “scum slip” that Shadowez pointed out at in 305, and 307, dosen’t make any sense to me. In fact it seems more likely that town would misinterpret the rules to the game then mafia.

Spoiler:
In post 448, shaddowez wrote:DL is paused, so unless someone hammers I don't how I'm the definite lynch, that can easily swing.

Just saw that Vedith is replacing out, but I still think that slot is scum. I hate preflip associatives, but the other strong scum read I have at this time in Tenshii.

Dave is playing like a VI, but I don't think he's scum.

I think you're town, and I think Human is town.

nn30 is playing similarly to the other game I was in with him where he was scum, and his comment about me in gives me the jeebies.

I was originally reading Mew as scum, but their play was getting better, but that's another slot that is getting replaced so I wouldn't want to do anything with it.

I have to read TTTT again, but I have a gut town read on that slot.



For some reason his paranoia for nn30 in 448 seem incredibility genuine to me. I didn’t like how he decided to unvote my slot just because I was replacing in. He seemed so positive that my slot was scum, but the dropped it once Vedith was no longer playing. I’d like to think he was just following parliamentary procedure to be nice but idk.

I didn’t find anything insightful on his wagon, other then being bothered that it wasn’t on Dave whose posting is significantly worse, or nn30 for his scuminess. It also had this fluid quality that irked my like it was scum motivated. Town rarely come to such a natural cohesive conclusion by themselves when scum hunting. Usally mafia can make things smooth like grease, or slow like molasses D1. Unless you have lots of good town players, which um...

Ehh he might evolve into a town read depending. Im currently null.
He is mainly a null read, but I kind of want to town read him.
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Post Post #586 (isolation #34) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:03 pm

Post by Grendel »

UNVOTE:

I'm done with Dave. My top town reads don't seemed thrilled with that lynch, and he appears to always play... this way. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree.

I almost want to lynch human now. :/

The more I think about it the more I feel like I hand waved them without giving them enough attention.

I was hoping nn30 would be around so I could talk to him and assure myself of my read on him, but he isn't around.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #35) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:46 pm

Post by Grendel »

In post 583, Tenshii wrote:
In post 503, Grendel wrote:
Tenshii
In post 53, Tenshii wrote:VOTE: Vedith

L-1. Serious vote. I think his early townreads are there for the sake of buddying and not for the sake of getting information during RVS.
I think that Tenshii was fishing for a lol fake hammer for reactions here? That’s the only logical explanation I chould come up with. Plus his reasoning is completely fallous. Like Vedith wasn’t dropping any town reads before 53.
He stated very early game posts where "X is town." There are people that have interpreted them as shitposts but there's more scum motivation behind it than town.
Do you mean post 13? I'm pretty sure that was a joke post.
In post 503, Grendel wrote: [1] I think that it is interesting how he was the founder of the Misa wagon, and at the surprising rate which Misa’s wagon grew. If Misa/TTTT were to flip chosen I wonder what that would make Tenshi (probably scum tbh). Also, I wonder about the plausibility of a TenshixHiraki scum team. For some reason the two really 'click' for me.

[2] Quickly glancing through his posts I see other instances of questionable logic, but none of the pops out as scum to me. I’m not going to hen peck at his other posts. He actually seems to want to be useful in a way that didn't look faked. Tenshii can have a nice cozy spot on the back burner.

[3] Oh, but I would like to know Tenshii's thoughts on Dave's flip to nn30, as he seemed to think it implicated bussing on Dave's part. Is Dave scum again Tenshii?

[3] And if he is would you vote him over nn30?
1. Where is the basis of Tenshii x Hikari coming from? This comes off as throwing shade rather than bringing up actual points to the table.
2. This too. You're implying that you have some sort of scumread on me yet I don't see any progression of you doing so. If you don't have a scumread on me, you're just throwing shade here again.
3. Dave's flip is only scummy in the sense that Dave get's town credit if nn30 flips scum. Regardless I don't thnk Dave is scum.
The reason I think you could be scum with Hiraki's slot is due to how Mewtaph had a weird vote on you when he started analyzing an wagon (Vediths) that I thought could have been distancing since it wasn't but a few pages later that you were both on the Misa wagon.

Also Hiraki/Mewtaph had a light, easy to ditch, town read on you before subbing out. While you didn't say Mewtaph/Hiraki are town reads, you never voiced any suspicion towards that slot. And there was minimal interaction between the two of you so far.

And gut too, of course.

For your second point... what exactly quantifies "shade" to you? I know its a sidetrack, but you seem to love using it for every interaction you disagree with.

You're still sitting at the bottom of my null reads btw. So you are lower priority then others. BUT if you feel that neglected- then keep talking to me. I'll sort you eventually lol.
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Post Post #589 (isolation #36) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:04 pm

Post by Grendel »

I really don't know what to do about nn30. I said I'd give him a chance, but I'm beginning to feel like he is riding out my good will.

Could use a up to date vc too.
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Post Post #591 (isolation #37) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:35 pm

Post by Grendel »

Yea, this looks a lot like how he played in his other games.

Lurky, abrasive, not very helpful. The only thing missing is him "lol" voting while drunk.

Leaves me wondering why he even wants to play mafia in the first place.
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Post Post #594 (isolation #38) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:04 pm

Post by Grendel »

I'll hammer nn30 before I go to bed tonight (within the next two hours).

He barely even tried to work with me, and his absence in the last 24 hours smells like scum guilt.

No way town nn30 would resign himself to being lynched after I offered to help him.
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Post Post #595 (isolation #39) » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:20 pm

Post by Grendel »

VOTE: nn30

Good night everybody.
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Post Post #1006 (isolation #40) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:44 pm

Post by Grendel »

I thought that for my short existence in this game I played pretty well.

Even if I ended up working from the right results to incorrect ones I thought I provided the hustle this game needed.

Not that I don't think that Human, Umluat, and creature were amazing this game! B/c you guys really carried things at the end!
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #41) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by Grendel »

I think that TTTT played very well.

If both chosen towns weren't so town read TTTT might have still won.
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #42) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:19 pm

Post by Grendel »

@ChaosOmega

What were your thoughts on the game as the omnipotent third party?
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