Micro 667 - Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #725  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:38 pm

Kind of frustrated two whole irl days have passed and Dave hasn't been lynched yet tbh.
JD

Hiraki
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Post Post #726  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:51 pm

In post 722, TTTT wrote:Will the three voteless players plz take a stand?
I'm waiting for Tenshii more than anything - don't make it look like I haven't been active. I guess I'll do this tentatively if you really want though.

Vote: Tenshii
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

Hiraki
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Post Post #727  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:52 pm

In post 724, PsychoticDave wrote:I get that you think I scumslipped, but that would require me to be scum.

I fully believe I am a Chosen Townie. There is no doubt in my mind.
Just know that once I'm lynched, the other can be killed (I think?).
Human - do you honestly think Dave could do this as scum?
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

Creature
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Post Post #728  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:56 pm

I'm am kinda of haveing some doubtings on PsychoticDave be scum.
*ignored*

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #729  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:13 pm

I think that post is incredibly incriminating, and I was waiting for somebody to come out and defend it. The fact that it's you is telling.


The implication behind this post is that Dave was just lying and trying to flip a wagon on me. This is supported by him pushing it further in his followup post, claiming the same strategy worked for him in a different site using the same format that he can't link for some reason. Before this, Dave had -never- mentioned that he so much as suspected he might be chosen townie. Do you really think that's something Dave could keep to himself, considering how horrible his play has been? What about when he had 'nothing more to say'? Isn't that something that might be worth saying?


Here, Dave 'fully believes' he is chosen townie with no doubt in his mind. He is flip flopping. This isn't Dave pushing a consistent belief he's been having for a while-- what town would do. This is Dave coming up with some bullshit explanation to explain his actions in 687.

What out of these two realities seems more realistic to you?
1. Dave is town. Dave spends all game posting nothing of value. As soon as Dave is run up, he claims chosen to try and get Human lynched because he believes Human is scum, even though he knows he may not be chosen. He gambles that the other players won't bother reading into the setup, and instead hopes Human will be flashlynched. He then comes to believe that he is Chosen townie, based on Human pushing him.
2. Dave is scum. Dave gets run up, and then claims chosen because he misunderstands the setup and assumes that Chosen townies get a different role PM. As soon as he is proven wrong, he backs out of it and writes it off as a gambit. He then comes back later saying that he truly does believe he is Chosen, trying to subtly imply that he always thought that and that's why he claimed, even though he heavily backpedaled on the claim before.
That is an open question to everybody in this game except Dave.
JD

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #730  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:14 pm

^@Hiraki

I really don't know how you're getting that, Creature. Mind explaining?
JD

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #731  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:16 pm

You could go for the 'well that's so obvious! there's no way scum would be so obviously scummy!' defense, but this is Dave we're talking about.
JD

Hiraki
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Post Post #732  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:57 pm

In post 731, Human Sequencer wrote:You could go for the 'well that's so obvious! there's no way scum would be so obviously scummy!' defense, but this is Dave we're talking about.
That's precisely the point. If Dave is always anti-town/scummy, why are you applying normal scumtells to him?

729 implies that for Dave to be scum that he has to actually be thinking about the L/T game which I am sure that we agree that he is not doing to any degree. Your analysis on 687 and 724 providing the flip-flop justifies that very theory. There is an irrationality to Dave which does not always constitute scum - I also believe this is the case now.

Again, I know you're going to connect me to him and that's not unreasonable but I am defending him because I think this is a mislynch that's just waiting to happen. I don't even think you have visible malintention here. I only believe that if Dave is scum, it's not for any of the reasons that have been provided thus far.
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

TTTT
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Post Post #733  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:06 pm

In post 729, Human Sequencer wrote:What out of these two realities seems more realistic to you?
1. Dave is town. Dave spends all game posting nothing of value. As soon as Dave is run up, he claims chosen to try and get Human lynched because he believes Human is scum, even though he knows he may not be chosen. He gambles that the other players won't bother reading into the setup, and instead hopes Human will be flashlynched. He then comes to believe that he is Chosen townie, based on Human pushing him.
2. Dave is scum. Dave gets run up, and then claims chosen because he misunderstands the setup and assumes that Chosen townies get a different role PM. As soon as he is proven wrong, he backs out of it and writes it off as a gambit. He then comes back later saying that he truly does believe he is Chosen, trying to subtly imply that he always thought that and that's why he claimed, even though he heavily backpedaled on the claim before.
That is an open question to everybody in this game except Dave.

#1 sounds more realistic
UNVOTE:
scum would be more aware of the mechanics in this set-up than town

Spoiler: setup from mod post
In post 1, ChaosOmega wrote:Special rules for this setup:
- During pre-game, the mafia will select one player to veto. This player cannot become a Chosen Townie. 2 of the remaining 6 townies will be randomly selected to become Chosen Townies.
- The mafia will be informed who the Chosen Townies are, but the Chosen Townies will not be informed.
- As long as both Chosen Townies are alive, neither can be night-killed or endgamed (1 or 2 Mafia Goons vs. 2 Chosen Townies is a town win)
- Chosen Townies will flip as Chosen Townies.
- Town cannot no-lynch; if no majority has been reached, whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. If there is a tie, whoever has had that many votes for longer will be lynched.


town not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role is more likely than scum not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role
Dave is likely town.
unless dave is clever scum who fake-claimed to be town-read
I don't think dave is clever scum.

Creature
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Post Post #734  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:09 pm

In post 733, TTTT wrote:town not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role is more likely than scum not realizing that Chosen aren't notified of their role

Then what was he trying to achieve by fakeclaiming?
*ignored*

TTTT
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Post Post #735  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:21 pm

to avoid being lynched would be my guess
it's bad play regardless of alignment

TTTT
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Post Post #736  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:22 pm

wait.
yes town is more likely to mistakenly fake claim Chosen
but dave could still just be terrible scum.

Creature
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Post Post #737  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:25 pm

idk, I think most of us are lynching him for anti-town behavior rather than actual scuminess.
*ignored*

Hiraki
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Post Post #738  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:40 pm

In post 737, Creature wrote:idk, I think most of us are lynching him for anti-town behavior rather than actual scuminess.
this is the basis of my argument - just to get things very clear because I feel that I write too much sometimes
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

Tenshii
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Post Post #739  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:21 pm

In post 703, Hiraki wrote:Your play is getting worse and worse dude tbh. Do you think the nn30 lynch had no basis to it and that we basically just went on it for no reason?

I literally thought that. Until Creature brought up the scum pocketing thing. But even then.

Spoiler: Reply To Hiraki's Wall
In post 704, Hiraki wrote:In my first post, I noted that Tenshii is a TR except for the stuff done near the end of my post (so last few real life days of D1). I even stated that 111 is a fantastic post but I don't see how I could have been so nice about my adjective usage. I think I mainly did that for the Misa vote that I don't think many other people agreed on. (n.b. I'm not too sure about this - sorry if I'm just flat-out wrong)

[1] I don't think this sequence follows pretty well.

In post 633, Tenshii wrote:I townread Creature, TTTT, PsychoticDave


In post 287, Tenshii wrote:
In post 271, Human Sequencer wrote:no idea how you're scumreading dave tbh

no idea how you're townreading dave tbh


[2] Mind explaining how you have a TR on Dave?

In post 343, Tenshii wrote:Holy shit Creature are you ever going to explain any of your reads?


[3] How do you TR someone that you don't really understand their reads?

In post 348, Tenshii wrote:I still feel fine on a TTTT lynch so I'm sticking to it.


[4] Can you explain these TRs?

1. Yes, my posts don't make sense because you (intentionally?) quoted them non-chronologically.
2. I townread Dave because his wagon hopping doesn't help him as scum. He's going on wagons where lynches would happen with or without him.
3. I can townread Creature even though I can't understand his reads because of his actions. He brought up Vedith being a Chosen Townie. That would not help him as scum.
4. I townread TTTT because he stopped the Vedith/Grendel lynch from happening.

Hiraki
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Post Post #740  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:24 pm

Quick posting - will look into 1, on surface you're probably right about that and I apologize since I hate when people misrep
If I call you a she, and you're actually a he. Don't make a fit about it.

I really don't care.

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #741  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:33 pm

I'll address the arguments that are against lynching him now, but instead of solely killing our best wagon atm, I recommend creating another. Good luck with such an inactive playerlist.
JD

PsychoticDave
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Post Post #742  (ISO)  » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:47 pm

In post 741, Human Sequencer wrote:I'll address the arguments that are against lynching him now, but instead of solely killing our best wagon atm, I recommend creating another. Good luck with such an inactive playerlist.

I think a wagon on you would be great.

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #743  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:31 am

Please note Dave's entire scumread of me consists of him believing my play is bad (lmao) and him believing he is chosen because I'm pushing him. He thinks that makes him chosen, because he thinks I'm scum. He thinks I'm scum because he thinks I'm pushing chosen (him). His basis for thinking he's chosen is because he believes scum is pushing him, namely Human.

Do you see the problem here?

Would you please sum up a more logically consistent reason for scumreading me?
JD

PsychoticDave
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Post Post #744  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:46 am

In post 681, Human Sequencer wrote:Why do you care so much? If I'm just a stupid townie, surely you'd just be able to ignore me and push whoever you think is scum?

There's no town motivation for 680, and the scum motivation is pretty blinding.

I asked you why you thought I was scum and this was your response.
So excuse me while I ignore any questions you ask me.

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #745  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:56 am

You literally asked me what makes you scum. I answered. What's your problem with that post? Why aren't you answering me? I am a pro-town player, sharing what's on my mind and what I believe at that point, trying to get my scumreads lynched. What are you doing?

It reads to me as if you're scared of sharing any more incriminating details. You don't want to have to fabricate any reads, so you've just dismissed the question and hoped that town will take the bait you left in 742, or hoped that I'd just slip up and generate a wagon out of thin air.

@literally anybody else
Could you please ask Dave why he scumreads me? So far, he's only posted what I've already bought to light in 743.
JD

PsychoticDave
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Post Post #746  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:59 am

How is that not a logical reason? What else is there to go by other than pushes and flips?

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #747  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:07 am

^This reads intentional to me. As if Dave is consciously going for the 'Look at how bad at mafia I am' derpclear.
It's also a convenient way to disregard everything I said in my post. Once again, please elaborate upon your scumread on me, because your reason for believing I am scum and your reason for believing you are chosen is circular. This particular read could very reasonably come from town, and if you elaborate I could easily change my read on you.

Also, if it does come from town, trying to figure it out and post it more eloquently could lead you to thinking it through a little deeper and realizing how it doesn't stand up to logic.

Picking apart somebody's scumread on you is one of the best ways to sort a slot for me, and for that I love interacting with people who scumread me.
JD

Human Sequencer
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Post Post #748  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:08 am

The activity in this game is fucking disgusting.
JD

PsychoticDave
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Post Post #749  (ISO)  » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:14 am

I really don't see anything wrong with the logic.

Why do you even scumread me?

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