inspectorscout's Large Normal Review

[Firebringer]

Hi!
First look.
This is townsided

[Firebringer]

2x White Mafia Goon
1x White Mafia Neapolitan

1x Black Mafia Goon
1x Black Mafia Neighborizer
1x Black Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof

1x Town Miller
1x Town Rolecop
3x Town Mason (1 masonry)
1x Town Doctor
1x Town 2-shot Vigilante
1x Town JOAT (1-shot Cop, 1-shot Jailkeeper, 1-shot Watcher, 1-shot Tracker)
4x Vanilla Townies

Too many PRs here.

The miller isn't going to have much impact for cop since there is only 1 shot cop and 18 players. 1/17 chance of hitting miller.
It most likely just basically confirms the miller day 1 to everyone as people who claim miller are often treated almost IC level in games.

I think too many masons in game. I think it would be better to get rid of one.
I also think you give JOAT too much power here. I would get rid of tracker or watcher.

[Firebringer]

The miller is intended as a confirmable IC to the rolecop, rather than for the cop. I'm comfortable getting rid of the cop, even.

I don't mind making it a 2 player masonry, I'm fine with that.

If I get rid of the cop, would losing one of tracker-watcher still be required?

I would say no to getting rid of tracker/watcher if you got rid of cop.

I think the game is still a bit townsided with those changes, but I think thats okay.
Ill let other reviewers look over it.

[Firebringer]

Black maf also has an advantage over White maf too. They have one more member, AND more PRs.

No, they both have 3 members.
Theres just more goons white.

[Firebringer]

Okay, thanks.

What would you guys say about changing the JOAT in a PT-cop? It basically finds out if anyone is in a PT, which is a masonry, neighborhood and mafia PT. It doesn't have that much use, but it can still function as a cop of some sort. X-shot if its too strong.

I mean this essentially works out hurting white mafia more, where as black can just claim they are in a neighborhood. A little more unfair to them. If your going to do this I suggest starting a white in a neighborhood to weaken it a bit.

Since PT Cop isn't normal role you would have to publish full role card on flip, but it would be allowed as one of those spots.

Overall I think that would potentially give the role power neutral? (as in terms of what it replaces) I mean Watcher/Jailkeep/Tracker can all give potential guiltless on players but it really depends on who scum send out to kill and watcher is strongest for finding scum based on this. A PT cop would help for just finding a scum in general if they aren't in a claimed hood. Essentially 4/6 scum possible for finding if scum don't recruit more scum into a PT.

[Firebringer]

In terms of play a PT cop essentially could force scum to claim a hood they aren't in or claim a hood they are in and other people claim it too and then the PT cop is left with nothing.

If he finds town in PTs then it also outs say the masons or town.
Its not extremely helpful until you get down to PoE and only if nobody backs up any hood claims.

I really see no reason to X-Shot that. I think it might even be weaker than JOAT.

[Firebringer]

So probably the best thing I can do is completely removing the rolecop - miller interaction and going on the more social side of neighborhoods and PT cop. Should some players have a pre-made neighborhood (since fire mentioned that white mafia has a disadvantage in that they don't have a neighborizer)

That might be better since millers are inherently trusted anyways, the role cop is only there to remove all doubt and it might be better to focus on day play over that.

@Aeronaut its been a day

[Firebringer]

2x White Mafia Goon
1x White Mafia Neapolitan

1x Black Mafia Goon
1x Black Mafia Neighborizer
1x Black Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof

3x Town Mason (1 masonry)
1x Town Doctor
1x Town 2-shot Vigilante
1x Town PT-Cop
6x Vanilla Townies

Premade neighborhood with white goon, white Neapolitan and vanilla townie

This is currently on the table.

This seems fine relatively speaking.
I would consider dropping a mason possibly as town might be too powerful here...
Actually given how you weakened PT cop, it might be fine.

[Firebringer]

While the idea of two of a faction being in a neighborhood is cute and all, pragmatically, it won't work the way you expect--when players see one white mafiate flip, they'll expect a BLACK mafiate in the neighborhood ("3-man neighborhood? Easy peasy, one of each faction!"), so the white mafiate you have in there which is meant to be confirmed will instead end up being lynched for the wrong reasons.

For that reason alone, setup still favors the black.

ummm no.
I extremely disagree with this.

[Firebringer]

Then you haven't been in many multiball neighborhoods.

I have.

When one white scum player flips, the thought will NOT be "oh the other two must be town".
It will be "oh there must be one town and one black".

I 100%, absolutely,

guarantee

you of that fact.

i have been in multi ball games with neighborhoods and what happened was 1 was scum, the other two are town.
not many people assumed 2 scum of diff factions and 1 town....

they just assumed "1 must be scum"

[Firebringer]

its honestly just mod WIFOM.
It doesn't matter how many scum or town you put in it.

[Firebringer]

I have no more thoughts at the current time!
Ill read what i missed in a bit.

[Firebringer]

Scum seem way too strong for White right now.
I would limit shots on both neapolitan and rolestopper.
Maybe 2 shot Neapolitan and 1 shot Rolestopper

Even that might be too strong for scum.

[Firebringer]

What about changing combinations and having white with neapolitan and 1shot Bp, black with neighb and 1shot rolestopper?

I think I like that more.

[Firebringer]

I think with that change the game is more balanced.
It has my approval on that I think.

Ill let other reviewers chime in but I think thats good for a multiball.

Approved[/v]

[Firebringer]

I think with that change the game is more balanced.
It has my approval on that I think.

Ill let other reviewers chime in but I think thats good for a multiball.

Approved

EBOP

[Firebringer]

I am pretty sure that follows normal guidelines for NAR....
I thought that vest was always applied first before doc heal?

[Firebringer]

As far as I know, no.

[Firebringer]

mastin do you know what is normally applied first? Doc or Vest?

[Firebringer]

mastin and FB, we good to go?

Yeah I'm fine as is.

[Firebringer]

If your talking about flavor of vcs or name of game (everything besides role cards) No

[Firebringer]

I messaged nexus that it's ready