Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[BigYoshiFan]

BigYoshiFan: Do you have anything related to your role outside of the one-shot all-doctor?

I don't.

[Skullduggery]

Day 7, Vote Count #13

Current Vote Count:

(5)

SirCakez -- callforjudgement, JaeReed, Giovanni il Pellegrino, Almost50, BigYoshiFan

(0)

Giovanni il Pellegrino

(1)

MathBlade -- MathBlade

(0)

PeregrineV

(0)

Nahdia

(0)

callforjudgement

(1)

Ankamius -- Nahdia

(0)

BigYoshiFan

(2)

Almost50 -- PeregrineV, SirCakez

(0)

JaeReed

Not Voting:

Ankamius

With 10 votes available, it takes 6 votes to hammer.

MathBlade is V/LA until 1/5.

Day 7 Will End on Wednesday, January 11th, at 7 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-11 19:00:00)

[PeregrineV]

Anyone have a brief recap on how we went from "everyone confirmed town except PeregerinV and Almost50" to lynching Cakez?

Just want to see some other perspectives on it while I read a bunch of pages.

[PeregrineV]

This means nothing, really, since I don't know the flaver. If my role is anything other than a McGuffin role, then Almost50 has to be dog scum.
Otherwise, he's town.

Is this flavour related? Cuz I didn't get a word of it!

Nope. Just speculating.

[PeregrineV]

PV, would you be willing to unvote A50?

Sure.

Unvote: Almost50

[PeregrineV]

I am going to rip apart which scum fucking vote me in my last will and you all better follow it because quite frankly everyone is getting lead around like a puppy dog on a leash to a player that the majority scumreads.

Bring it on lynch your town BP. Do it. I DARE you.

If you had been made the bodyguard while being BP, that may have been more useful.

[callforjudgement]

Anyone have a brief recap on how we went from "everyone confirmed town except PeregerinV and Almost50" to lynching Cakez?

Just want to see some other perspectives on it while I read a bunch of pages.

I was the main person pushing to stop the Almost50 wagon. The problem with it is a) very few people actually scumread Almost50 (and MathBlade, one of the main people behind pushing the lynch, seemed to think it was on town but wanted it to happen anyway?), and b) it was growing in what was (at least from my point of view) a really dubious way (i.e. a way that indicated that it would likely lead to a mislynch). I also proposed a MathBlade+SirCakez+Gio scumteam; I'm not certain about that, but it's currently still my best theory as to who's scum. Quite a few people have scumreads on SirCakez (either just generally, or on the way he's responded to recent events), so he's accumulated a lot of votes (and they're votes to lynch, too, rather than intended as pressure votes; many people on the wagon, including me, would not be upset at a hammer, although ideally we'd avoid having yet more quickhammers).

The other main thing that's been happening from my perspective is people (especially those on the SirCakez wagon) getting generally fed up with MathBlade (on the basis that they seem to be proposing complicated plans which have very little benefit – it basically starts with the assumption that certain players are town, and then ends up proving they're telling the truth about each others' roles, which is not really useful – and often include things like intentionally lynching townies). MathBlade's been confirmed by Gio in a way that seems hard to interfere with, but multiple players (including me) have stated that they'd be voting there otherwise.

I should note that my perspective is probably somewhat biased; the town's fallen into two main camps at the moment, which can loosely be described as the people who want to lynch SirCakez and the people who want to lynch someone else (these people have not yet agreed on a counterwagon, as far as I can tell). I'm pretty heavily in the first camp here, but would definitely be willing to hear counterarguments because I know that I have a tendency to tunnel.

In terms of confirmations, the issue with them is that everyone has some sort of confirmation (either they demonstrated their role, or their role or alignment was vouched for by another player) of their role apart from MathBlade and A50, and most people have confirmation of their alignments too. (One of the main reasons why Almost50 and SirCakez have been the players who received the wagons was that neither of them have any sort of alignment confirmation; SirCakez is known to be an Inventor but that's not a role that's inherently limited to townies, especially if there's a cult involved.) As such, there's more of a general willingness to lynch confirmed players than usual, in the belief that some of the confirmations have to be either inaccurate or misleading for one reason or another.

[PeregrineV]

CFJ's argument makes the most sense to me so far.

Can hammer SirCake by the end of the business day (about 4ish hours) or can wait.

Let me know.

[PeregrineV]

Anyone have a brief recap on how we went from "everyone confirmed town except PeregerinV and Almost50" to lynching Cakez?

Just want to see some other perspectives on it while I read a bunch of pages.

I was the main person pushing to stop the Almost50 wagon. The problem with it is a) very few people actually scumread Almost50 (and MathBlade, one of the main people behind pushing the lynch, seemed to think it was on town but wanted it to happen anyway?), and b) it was growing in what was (at least from my point of view) a really dubious way (i.e. a way that indicated that it would likely lead to a mislynch). I also proposed a MathBlade+SirCakez+Gio scumteam; I'm not certain about that, but it's currently still my best theory as to who's scum. Quite a few people have scumreads on SirCakez (either just generally, or on the way he's responded to recent events), so he's accumulated a lot of votes (and they're votes to lynch, too, rather than intended as pressure votes; many people on the wagon, including me, would not be upset at a hammer, although ideally we'd avoid having yet more quickhammers).

The other main thing that's been happening from my perspective is people (especially those on the SirCakez wagon) getting generally fed up with MathBlade (on the basis that they seem to be proposing complicated plans which have very little benefit – it basically starts with the assumption that certain players are town, and then ends up proving they're telling the truth about each others' roles, which is not really useful – and often include things like intentionally lynching townies). MathBlade's been confirmed by Gio in a way that seems hard to interfere with, but multiple players (including me) have stated that they'd be voting there otherwise.

I should note that my perspective is probably somewhat biased; the town's fallen into two main camps at the moment, which can loosely be described as the people who want to lynch SirCakez and the people who want to lynch someone else (these people have not yet agreed on a counterwagon, as far as I can tell). I'm pretty heavily in the first camp here, but would definitely be willing to hear counterarguments because I know that I have a tendency to tunnel.

In terms of confirmations, the issue with them is that everyone has some sort of confirmation (either they demonstrated their role, or their role or alignment was vouched for by another player) of their role apart from MathBlade and A50, and most people have confirmation of their alignments too. (One of the main reasons why Almost50 and SirCakez have been the players who received the wagons was that neither of them have any sort of alignment confirmation; SirCakez is known to be an Inventor but that's not a role that's inherently limited to townies, especially if there's a cult involved.) As such, there's more of a general willingness to lynch confirmed players than usual, in the belief that some of the confirmations have to be either inaccurate or misleading for one reason or another.

This helps and matches what I've read.

Hammer now or wait?

[callforjudgement]

I think it's worth giving people on the wagon some time to react. If nothing else, it gains us more information (because you get to see the reasons people have for unvoting). You might also want to hear the other side of the story, too, rather than just listening to me.

(We've also had a bad record this game about hammering without fully thinking it through. I expect you'll see a big rant from MathBlade when they get online.)

[PeregrineV]

I think it's worth giving people on the wagon some time to react. If nothing else, it gains us more information (because you get to see the reasons people have for unvoting). You might also want to hear the other side of the story, too, rather than just listening to me.

(We've also had a bad record this game about hammering without fully thinking it through. I expect you'll see a big rant from MathBlade when they get online.)

Mathblade has over 1,200+ posts. If he hasn't been able to present his side of the story in that amount of time, I don't see it forthcoming anytime soon.

But, I'll wait.

[MathBlade]

It is because I can't prove you are a killer. As I have said in the hood I am working on multiple theories one of which is there was an SK. Unless it is Nahdia someone has a role that is provable and can kill.

Everyone then decided to lynch the last bit of town power over "scummy" without an explanation as to which posts. SirCakez only started pinging me today and on such a small subset of posts. If we were lynching by gut only I would still go with you PV.

[MathBlade]

They please.

[MathBlade]

Scum have control of this game and are plotting my mislynch next. I can't prove it but lynch chaining is generally horrible and making plans to prove Town = good. It is like mafia 101. Catch scum make plan to prove it or disprove it. You don't just read from your ass. That is literally taking dice and hoping it lands on scum. Your dice suck. Hammer while I am away so I do not have to deal with this bullshit when I get back.

[Ankamius]

The logic says that Giovanni's result on you cannot be trusted.
The logic also says that based on how your role and my role interact, you're likely to be scum.

So...

[MathBlade]

The logic says it should be.

Furthermore there has been a "miller" to every investigative Pr out there.

The most likely thing is I am fucking town and everyone scumreading me is bending over backwards to do so.

This game is lost. I will give my all and a last will tomorrow but I suspect it will be the quickest hammer ever.

[Almost50]

Scum have control of this game and are plotting my mislynch next.

Of Cakez flips Town I doubt there's anything for you to fear. People will be more likely to sheep you on tomorrow's lynch.

However, if Cakez is scum as many of us believe then you have every reason to worry, because lynching anyone else would make little sense to me.

[PeregrineV]

Scum have control of this game and are plotting my mislynch next. I can't prove it but lynch chaining is generally horrible and making plans to prove Town = good. It is like mafia 101. Catch scum make plan to prove it or disprove it. You don't just read from your ass. That is literally taking dice and hoping it lands on scum. Your dice suck. Hammer while I am away so I do not have to deal with this bullshit when I get back.

Except in TTYLL that just finished, scum were bending over backwards to bus White Queens, but we managed to mislynch texcat.

That was Mafia 201- How to Screw the Pooch.

[PeregrineV]

I followed Mathblade yesterday and I can verify that they performed an investigative action.

I can't find where Mathblade says the result of his investigation, nor what type of investigation it was.

[Almost50]

I followed Mathblade yesterday and I can verify that they performed an investigative action.

I can't find where Mathblade says the result of his investigation, nor what type of investigation it was.

Neapolitan one shot (granted by Cakes) and checked JaeReed. Returned Vanilla Townie.

[callforjudgement]

It is because I can't prove you are a killer. As I have said in the hood I am working on multiple theories one of which is there was an SK. Unless it is Nahdia someone has a role that is provable and can kill.

Proof that someone has a power role is not proof that they can't kill, and not proof that they aren't scum. Being able to kill and action at the same time is very common even in Normals (even in Newbies!), and

especially

on serial killers in Theme games. Besides, several of the power roles that have been claimed don't have active actions (either every night, or at all).

Also, have you ever given any evidence for this Nahdia-is-SK theory? As I've been telling you repeatedly, it's the least likely type of scum for them to be. Like, if you think Nahdia is scum, why wouldn't you be pushing them as groupscum, which is a lot more plausible? (Besides, SKtells are much harder to spot than scumtells because SKs don't have much investment in keeping their nonexistent buddies alive, and care about discovering who's town and scum just like townies do (although for different reasons).)

[PeregrineV]

I followed Mathblade yesterday and I can verify that they performed an investigative action.

I can't find where Mathblade says the result of his investigation, nor what type of investigation it was.

Neapolitan one shot (granted by Cakes) and checked JaeReed. Returned Vanilla Townie.

Is he the token vanilla player in the game? And did he confirm VT? I thought he said he could do something...

[Nahdia]

They* have been claiming VT all game, since they got in.

Andrius softing being able to do stuff which he later pretty much confirmed was all wifom.

[Nahdia]

Kinda feel like PV can't be group scum at the very least considering how utterly clueless he is as to basic facts of the gamestate we've had established for awhile.

[PeregrineV]

They* have been claiming VT all game, since they got in.

Andrius softing being able to do stuff which he later pretty much confirmed was all wifom.

You seem to be the only one not on board with Call's theory on Math-Cake-Gio scumteam.

What part of his argument do you disagree with?