Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

[JasonWazza]

So I think I would go with VRK on this one--gut says newbie should be comfortable enough to venture out at that point. The problem was that with the old SE requirements, they

could

stay in the newbie queue forever (first as newbies, then as SEs). I didn't think about the fact that it's not an official rule that after two games, it's not that you're not a newbie anymore, it's that you

become

an SE.

I'm thinking that I'll officially put a 2-game limit on newbie games, unless there's a significant backlash to that.

I honestly think this is a bad move, i myself didn't really feel comfortable moving out of the newbie queue till i had 9-10 games (from memory, though i think i would have just bit the bullet if this were the rule)

I don't think it is fair to lock someone out of the queue till they signup and play out a game outside the newbie queue.

[JasonWazza]

Somewhat farther off-topic:

4. town jailkeeper, mafia roleblocker, town 1-shot bulletproof

That'd be a fun game, soon as JK claims he is worthless (RB acts before JK) and BP is the only thing that can be slightly worthwhile from that point on.

[JasonWazza]

Somewhat farther off-topic:

4. town jailkeeper, mafia roleblocker, town 1-shot bulletproof

That'd be a fun game, soon as JK claims he is worthless (RB acts before JK) and BP is the only thing that can be slightly worthwhile from that point on.

I'm looking at it from the other direction: That's a lot of ways to miss a kill.

Not really, avoiding a JK isn't that hard (and you'd know there's a 50% chance he exists) and then the BP is just a pain once.

[JasonWazza]

If you get your RB lynched early, you're already probably fucked. Only way it really goes south is for LYLO to be JK-BP-M, at which point...uhh, gg?

This is kinda like the rolecop in the old setup, if you lose him it's kinda your own fault (as a team) and i had this happened and just dragged my team as far as i could (i made it to LYLO) but the basic fact is if you lose a strong role, yes you can be fucked, but you could do it if you persist and do things right.

Also JK-BP-M would be an awesome fucking LYLO

[JasonWazza]

Then you instant lose one setup to win the other.

[JasonWazza]

At the start of day 1, any town Tracker claims.

Scum just shoot the tracker, fact is you may as well 50/50 it and just try and make sure your not using who the tracker would likely be tracking.

I wouldn't really call it game breaking by any means, it just means your likely to lose a PR instantly 50% of the time for no real reward (having a known tracker claimed, he still has to actually be on the Scum that is killing the doctor)

[JasonWazza]

1. Your making the assumption that neither of the PR's are strong players.
2. If the kill fails on the tracker you just up and shoot the doctor (who has claimed) and as you said, you will enter a mylo state forcing a no lynch, so all you gain is an extra day, not anything useful.
3. The only reason the claims should affect the dayplay is because you are playing with new players, and this seems like a really shitty way to introduce them to Mafia.
4. it's basically the same reason we don't have a watcher/doctor, because you just lose 50% and win 50% in trades, one win rate will go up a lot, the other will go down, and in the end you have gained nothing.

[JasonWazza]

1. I disagree, you don't always shoot the strong players, but either way that doesn't really change the point, your only changing them from strongly seen as town to confirmed town, not really a benefit if they are shot either way (and protected either way).
2. I mean in most games the lynch pools are normally 7 on D1, you just don't out the PR's straight away (unless it's for a CC), i don't see any real benefit to early outting of your PR's when you can avoid it so much more by just getting claims before a lynch.
3. I don't see how the setup is at fault for what your calling a breaking strategy, that doesn't really break anything, all it does is increase one win rate and decreases the other one, you could do the same thing in most of the setups, but no benefits are really gained by doing so (as you're forcing more losses in certain setups.)
4. What i mean is that your giving up some of the win rate for one setup, to benefit the win rate of the other setup, no real benefit is actually gained, just a change in the win rates (tracker/doctor win rate would go up, while Tracker/BP win rate would go down, because optimal is always just to shoot the tracker and hope for the best).