Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[Aeronaut]

First!

P-edit well shit

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Monokuma

You can't take first AND second

[Aeronaut]

one of you is Nahdia hi Nahdia

[Aeronaut]

You should sign or i'm going to post pictures of pikachu crying every time you don't

[Aeronaut]

Spoiler:

[Aeronaut]

[Aeronaut]

I approve.

Hey.
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with Nacho.

Like. If he flips town POWER lynch me here.

I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.

I refuse to believe he allowed both me and Nacho to be town.
So lynch me, lynch Nacho, doesn't matter who you lynch first but Nacho is scum.
Guaranteed.

Mastin, I respect your reasoning on how Pine would draft, but I also feel like Pine's trying to fuck with us. Your strong reaction to not being picked and assumption that nacho MUST be scum just makes me think that it could have easily been done on purpose like that, to get you two at each other throats.

Granted I haven't seen Nacho's first impressions on it yet so maybe that will change my mind; I was trying to peace together the same thing you were though after having Pine in a few of my modded games, and I realized that while it's valid, Pine is also someone who strikes me as good at making you think what he wants you to think.

And honestly, if I could've had both of you, it would've made me hard as a rock.

although this post kind of makes me uncomfy re: nacho and mastin being different alignments.

pine, you're going to be so fucking sorry you didn't pick me to be on your team...sooooo fucking sorry...

mastina, fate, pisskop, pine - calling it now

VOTE: Drealmerz

[Aeronaut]

Like, I've never played a game with TheRealGin-N-Tonic before.

But.
He looks like obvscum.
So I'm pretty sure. He's just actually scum, and that this isn't merely a playstyle thingy here.

Why?

Can you explain why he is obvscum, without using the point I just made?

Yes, I can.
No, I won't.

I suggest reading what content he has provided this game thusfar, compared to the content of everyone else. Perhaps that way, you can see what I have seen. If not, then I'll explain at a later time at my convenience.

Ok, well how are we expected to ever do anything with your read of him if you're not going to give us a reason why? That's beneficial to nobody.

[Aeronaut]

ok I read up

VOTE: mastina
The stuff she's pushing is terrible. We have literally no clue of how Pine picked up his players, so this pushing to lynch Nacho based on "I think Pine would pick him as scum" is scummy af.
I think the Real Gin N Tonic (mainly because of 131) and dreal are town. No one else stuck out to me.

@dreal it was 5-second Rule

Ok, I agree that it's terrible, but the thing is that there's not a scum motivation to it. Where do you see one?

that's not the worst part though! the

worst part

is that i can't even READ ANYONE based on their contributions about the wifom game.

I mean... you

could

.

Knowing this, I can say: pisskop, SirCakez, Prism, and BTD6_maker are all basically conftown. They haven't played with Pine recently as far as I know, and they're too young to have played with Pine in his glory days.

This is a pretty shortsighted conclusion coming from you!

Yeah.

There could definitely be some truth to some of the things Mastina is saying, but their assertion that every player that is newer to the site is auto conftown is absolute rubbish.

Why? Because Pine knows we would of thought that and it's all WIFOM.

Big news, kiddies! Aeronaut has been upgraded from the little tykes table to the GROWN UP table. Welcome, Aeronaut. You're bigger than a big kid now! You're among the few with brains big enough to realize that the entire point to this game is Pine screwing with us. Wow! Amazing revelation! You deserve a prize! Yes, we will give you a PRIZE! The prize is... wait for it... we will continue to never sign our posts! Wow! Amazing! Shocking! Dazzling! Absolutely Earth shattering! The Earth has been literally (figuratively) shattered! It's in fragments! It's like a beautiful scene of ice flows in Antarctica, except instead of fragments of ice drifting through the freezing ocean, it's fragments of the Earth drifting through the freezing (kind of) vacuum of space! And it's all because of you! Good job!

I feel like I'm talking to satin/ a game show host. You're right, though.

This though...

And honestly, if I could've had both of you, it would've made me hard as a rock.

although this post kind of makes me uncomfy re: nacho and mastin being different alignments.

is interesting! Any scum worth their salt knows that when you get confirmed as mafia, you

shut the hell up!

Otherwise you risk dropping associative left and right and front and center and up and down and other directions, ones that you pitiful creatures that exist only in three dimensions can scarcely even CONCEIVE of! I would have brought in a man in a lab coat to pretend to be a scientist and explain that further, but I'm a bear; which is a scientist's natural predator!

But Pine

has

to post! They have to! Shocking! That means Pine is probably on his toes about what he says and what the potential meanings are. That means Pine is going to interact both with his partners and with town. Do you think you can tell what's in jest from what's genuine? That presumes that some of what he says IS genuine! We're not so sure... in fact, we would suggest entirely ignoring everything Pine says! Moving on...

That's actually probably a smart idea. Idk if I will, though.

Monokuma you remind me of some people from my home site

How nice! Do you also intentionally not react when your good buddies from your home site vote you?

oh shiiiiiit

[Aeronaut]

Why do you think Dreal is town?

[Aeronaut]

Why do you think Dreal is town?

You don't agree? The guy's a little teddy toothlessly gnawing at the ankles of big bad mastina! And, I've got a soft spot in my already soft-and-fluffy heart for that sort!

But really, look at him. You think that's scum?

Well, besides his entrance, not really. I also don't really see it as auto-town either though. I see it as something he'd do in almost any scenario.

[Aeronaut]

There is only a few people here that i have played games with, one of them being Dreal. If anyone else posted like Dreal has been i would look at those posts as a bit scummy but, i mean really, it is just Dreal being Dreal so i take whatever he says with a grain of salt but that can only last for so long.

I am attempting to get a feel of the players since this is the first time i have played with a majority of you all. Two questions arise for me.

1) Normally i would have a townlean toward Mastina because of the content she produced early but this is camn's revenge and it seems nothing is normal. My question: Does Mastina post these analytical posts a high majority of the time no matter alignment or is this a rare thing?

Mastina is a definitely name that is synonymous with long-winded.

Hey Monokuma, you've stated that you agree that Mastina's setup spec is mostly WIFOM, but do you personally think that it's scum mastin spreading bullshit or town mastin just being overly dismissive?

[Aeronaut]

I'm also in the middle of a pretty big snowstorm, so if I lose my power i'll probably be v/la until monday at the earliest.

[Aeronaut]

Are you a bostonite? Or just another dirty NYer?

[Aeronaut]

Spoiler:

[Aeronaut]

Well, uh, isn't he doing the opposite?

[Aeronaut]

He's voting mastina which would mean he's rejecting the setup spec right?

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Mastina

It seems like you have played a lot of games with Pine. (I am completely ignoring posts made by Pine). At this early stage I would consider you marginally more likely to be scum.

Oh.

Well then can you answer my other question from before?

[Aeronaut]

it's unfortunate your scum game isn't as refined, you should play more

Case'n'point that you don't know me.

My scumgame is the most refined of any player on mafiascum. There's a damn good reason I was nominated for Don Corelone on consecutive years. (I lost both times, but I was nommed all the same.) You'll never find a player more self-conscious about their own meta than me. You'll never see a player who better knows what she can do, what she can't do, what she does and can't replicate/hide as an alignment, and what she does that can be replicated/hidden as an alignment*.

There's a reason why I take elements from my scumgame when playing town. No seriously. I deliberately take elements from my scumgame into my towngame. Rather than vice-versa. You know why I take elements from my scumgame into my towngame, rather than elements of my towngame into my scumgame? Because my scumgame needs nothing to improve; my towngame needs desperately to improve.

So if you do something that looks like your scumgame, that's just your town game? Cool, I'll keep that in mind

where do you think I should direct them? TRGNT, eh?

Or Aeronaut, or Nacho.

anywhere but you, I'm sure

Quite the opposite. Fuck focusing on Btd6, Fate, Monokuma, pisskop, Prism, SirCakez, or Vaxkiller. All that'll do is serve to demonstrate what we already know: you're town, they're town, your efforts there would be town-town, and thus a waste of time.

Mastin, tell me honestly; do you think that Pine looked at this playerlist and blatantly picked only people were "older" players?

[Aeronaut]

Or, better yet;

Lets say you know Pine the best out of all of us (I wonder where I may have gotten that impression?). Pine is not trying to help you win, don't you think Pine would intentionally do some non-pine things so that you'd blatantly defend his scum partners?

[Aeronaut]

Mastin, I respect your reasoning on how Pine would draft, but I also feel like Pine's trying to fuck with us. Your strong reaction to not being picked and assumption that nacho MUST be scum just makes me think that it could have easily been done on purpose like that, to get you two at each other throats.

Huh. Weird. I swear I've heard this reasoning before.

I'm actually going to argue the fact that if both of you are steller scums, he'd make sure both are town purely for the fact that he'd know you'd be at each others throats.

Oh yeah. That's because I have.

And? I'm pretty sure that's what most of this game thinks, since it's you know, common sense.

Also justsayin this was a scumpost through-and-through.
The first section echoing TheRealGin-N-Tonic. That section having been bad in the first place. Writing off Pine's choices as unreadable, when the whole fucking point of this game is outguessing Pine. (Literally this game is outguess Pine: the game. That's the whole fucking theme of the game, and Aeronaut is telling us

not

to do that, to treat this game as if it were normal...when that's exactly what Pine would want.) Saying Pine is unpredictable. The whole Nacho/mastina bit. And most of all, the vote on drealmerz, who is basically the most obvtown of the players who have history with Pine.

Yep, I'm the only one who thinks we shouldn't let a game designed to fuck with us fuck with us, obviously. That's why nacho is the leading wagon, right?

Why?

Because it's the case.

Ok, well how are we expected to ever do anything with your read of him if you're not going to give us a reason why?

By trying to figure out the read on your own.
And from this, forming your own read.
And viewing by your own lens.
And reflecting by that.
You know, standard stuff that you'd have to do anyway?

Ok, well I don't know if you've played the game of mafia before, but usually the way to lynch someone isn't by telling everyone "Figure out the reasons for yourself" because as you said, most players are bad and they won't.

Ergo, in this game, Pine knows that people are going to assume that he made wifomy choices. Yet, wifomy choices are suboptimal for him: they lack team synergy and they lack strength of a scumgame. So, by making wifomy choices, Pine not only would be doing what the town expects of him, he would also be leaving himself with a much, much weaker scumbase.

This actually, is the definition of WIFOM. Pine wouldn't do WIFOM because he thinks we'd think he'd do WIFOM but he wouldn't do that because...

etc.

[Aeronaut]

I'm over it mastina. If you feel like giving any scum reads this game, go ahead! Otherwise, your reminiscing about outdated games isn't helping anyone. It's great that you had fun with pine what three years ago, but now is now and in case you didn't notice, this game wasn't made for you.


Having said that, I'm very certain mastina is town, here. Town who is going to ego their way around and be wrong, but pretty obviously town. People on the mastin wagon are fooling themselves if they think mastin comes in here and pulls this crazy bullshit.

VOTE: Sircakes

SC and Drealz are both on that wagon, but bear is kind of right, drealz interactions with mastin are becoming more and more obvious town.

[Aeronaut]

inb4 Mastina quotes 278, with "obvious scum post, you all should know why" and then doesn't vote me anyway

[Aeronaut]

Gin, you have any preliminary reads right now? So far I know that you disagree with mastin's spec, but what else?

[Aeronaut]

I am definitely curious what nacho's take on it is.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Fate

Do stuff

[Aeronaut]

please let that dayvig shot be real

Ok, can you lay out what you actually think is scum about mastina? She's being silly, but there's definitely no scum motivation in it.

[Aeronaut]

"Oh gee, mastin is providing some content. Pisskop is shitposting and several people are being worthless, lets shoot content"

Piss = town

Oh, I agree, I'd be careful with him. He's mostly reputation, and is just as fallible as anyone, but don't back off - his counterattacks can be fierce.

Maybe pressure BTD6 or Sir Cakez a bit. Just make sure it doesn't come off as bullying the lurkers.

So one of BTD6 is probably scum, and one is probably town.

Curious how mastina reacts to this, since she's the all-powerful pine-whisperer.

Voting nacho is just distracting from the game. He is not going to post any faster.

I don't think that's why Mastina is voting Nacho.

Dreals talking to pine makes me thing he is trying way to hard to make it seem like somthing only someone who is town would ahve the balls to do... but it just comes off scummy.

I disagree.

Hey.
VOTE: Nachomamma8.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with Nacho.

Like. If he flips town POWER lynch me here.

I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.

I refuse to believe he allowed both me and Nacho to be town.
So lynch me, lynch Nacho, doesn't matter who you lynch first but Nacho is scum.
Guaranteed.

First and most important thing. You're wrong. You are wrong. You are wrong.
I know that this probably won't do anything to get you off the path because my god you are stubborn when you get your mind set on something and your mind is very obviously set here, but you are wrong.

A good portion of winning the game or losing the game depends on you realizing that you are wrong and backing off and working with me; I can already tell that you're probably town, and you will soon learn that I am town when all of your attempts to lynch me disintegrate into dust over and over again (whether I was camn's first pick or her last pick there is no way in hell that I am letting her down this game and me not being scum shows that Pine either doesn't respect my scum game or I was Camn's first pick in which case there's the added bonus of teaching Pine some respect while I'm at it). While you are going down this completely incorrect path, your head isn't going to be in the game which means that a slot that should be a very strong town player becomes a slot that is average to useless and while it would be fun to dance with you because it's been oh so long since we've danced together, I'm here for business and not pleasure.

Again, I don't expect you to listen to me; I expect that I'm a child in a zombie apocalypse world begging his father to please listen to please come back to please stop eating people's brains, but if there's some small piece of the mastina I know and love in there then please read my posts and hear what I have to say; I know there's a Nacho is scum devil sitting on your shoulder and constantly whispering in your ear but please silence him long enough to give me a proper chance so that you and I can break the game and teach Pine some respect for deciding that he could win without drafting either of us in his corner.

I feel as if nacho!scum could have very easily pushed the opposite narrative as mastina, and tried to push it back on them instead of doing what he's doing here and trying to pull them out of their fixation and onto actual scum hunting. E.g Nacho is p clearly town in this post.

[Aeronaut]

chicago style sucks

[Aeronaut]

@BTD6 Why, in your own words, do you think Mastina's actions are scum-motivated?

[Aeronaut]

I'm trying to give everything another look through. Why? I was re-reading mastina's posts and is not giving me the same warm and fuzzy's I felt the first time reading it.

Well what exactly did you think was "warm and fuzzy" specifically that's changed in your mind?

Did Pine get to choose his picks all at once, or were turns taken?

All at once.

That said I can't imagine Pine would choose people that are silent coasters

I can't imagine he wouldn't.

Do you have reads on people other than dreals or Mastina, both of which are town?

[Aeronaut]

Hop aboard the fate wagon, we have new leather seats and durable wheels to make your experience especially comfy

[Aeronaut]

Nacho has COMPLETELY SKIRTED THE ISSUE OF ME and the top picks for scum out of this playerlist

Not even so much as a handwave "nah Pine wouldnt pick Fate cause hed get too much scrutiny and heat"

I backed down from my gut in camn's apartment and let scumcho coast until a surprise endgame

NOT AGAIN

NEVER AGAIN

VOTE: NACHOMAMMA8

Do you have other reads, and is this read based on setup spec, or just grudge shit?

I know I said I was going to revisit my death tunnel on dreal, but I cant find anything that makes me want to move my vote.

Mastina looks better as the day goes on, but I still question those earlier comments, and I don't have the same super town feeling. more of a town-lite (and liek all lite beers, does not leave me satisfied)

Alright, well I wouldn't really call it a death tunnel, just more of you not moving your vote for ten or so pages.

Can you tell me what exactly you feel is scummy about Drealz posting? Besides his original intro post, there's nothing there that looks remotely town motivated, so I'm curious where exactly your head it at.

Players that it seems like i havent seen in a bit: BTD6, Gin, Kop, Mastina. This just might be me but one name does stand out from those, Gin. If i recall earlier in the thread someone brought up that Gin played a great scum game with Pine recently and i was in that game. They rampaged pretty hard, that is actually the reason for this game. Camn was so upset she needed revenge. That tells me that A) Gin and Pine would work great together and B) Gin would be the best pick for scum also because we would expect Pine to pick him so we assume he didnt based on that but our assumptions are why Pine picked him.

VOTE: Gin

Do you have any reason to suspect him besides lurking and setup speccing? Or anyone else at this point?

Nacho has COMPLETELY SKIRTED THE ISSUE OF ME and the top picks for scum out of this playerlist

Not even so much as a handwave "nah Pine wouldnt pick Fate cause hed get too much scrutiny and heat"

I backed down from my gut in camn's apartment and let scumcho coast until a surprise endgame

NOT AGAIN

NEVER AGAIN

VOTE: NACHOMAMMA8

I stated who the best picks Pine could make were; I don't care whether he recruited you or Mastina because I can read you much easier than I can guess whether Pine recruited you or not.

This sentence is one that every player in this game should write on the chalkboard unit they understand it.

Pine, you do realise it is optimal for you to do nothing but prodge here. Every time you post we get more information/

Anyway, I still scumread Mastina, though very weakly. I will explain why later as I am busy now.

Very interested in hearing this.

[Aeronaut]

Monokuma, which of those three players do you think is the best lynch, though? Still Gin from your vote long ago, or are you planning on changing it?

[Aeronaut]

please let that dayvig shot be real

Ok, can you lay out what you actually think is scum about mastina? She's being silly, but there's definitely no scum motivation in it.

I did earlier, I'll restate the highlights. Her "theory" of who Pine picked is pointless and scummy because for all we know, Pine RNGed his picks. And her pick to go for nacho seems like scum trying to pick off a good town early, or bussing (which I now doubt).

Fate's push on Nacho is pretty garbage, I think that's a safe bet for buddies with mastin scum. Which would make Nacho town, but nothing he's posted has given me a townvibe, so null for now, town if either fate or mastin scumflips.

I think fate would be a better candidate than mastina is, for actually jumping onto the Mastina bullshit train as a supposedly veteran player.

I mean it ain't done but I've been working on it lol

01. Secret Agent Jin

Spoiler: The Other Less Cool Jin

Abstract: Beginning scum lean for fence sitting behavior

Post 187, Para 1: My first impression is a subtle distancing with dreal. I mainly don't like the fact that that the way Jin i setting up his reads in a way that they can change quite easily. With Dreal, he says that normally he'd look scummy but he'll null him until he comes under heat. This reads to me as a set up to a bus if the situation arises.
Post 187, Para 3: To continue the idea that formulated in my head, here he said Mastin would have been a town lean but he's willing to not read town and say she's scum. I think again that it's just early game set up to allow him to sway his opinion on a player to follow what the town thinks so he doesn't come under much suspicion.
Post 187, Para 4: To answer Jin's question, he answers it in the prelude to giving the question. Jin specifically stated that he believed what Mastin was doing so the purpose of asking if Mastin's post being genuine or fabricated has me puzzled.

Post 187, Para 5: This paragraph, I don't believe in because Mastin's reasoning is basically focusing on Nacho as the main threat and if he's not scum, then ergo Mastin is scum. That's a dangerous gambit to put oneself as scum and makes her the center of attention. I don't doubt that Mastin can handle being center of attention as scum but she's right in saying that as scum, it's not smart to make yourself prime lynching material.

Post 208: I'm looking at this post as a reason to not give a definitive statement as to what he thinks about Mastin's alignment. You can attempt to come to the conclusion that she's town for saying to lynch her on D2 if she's wrong or push an angle that it's scum making it all for info manipulation latter down the road. Either way, either option has to sound better in your mind and not giving a statement about what you actually think is continuous fence sitting like I've pointed out earlier.

02. BTD6_MAKER

Spoiler: Big Truck Driver 6_

Abstract: Beginning Scum Lean

Post 104 and Post 115: Together I'm not seeing genuine concern in thinking Mastin is scum but is finding an excuse to vote mastin. First he votes at 7:03 AM EST and says she's most likely to be scum with Pine because they've played together a long time ago. Then after 100 posts and 12 hours later, he continues to vote Mastin in light of all the discussion that has occurred, he doesn't put in further input continuing to prove his theory, it's a simple vote and he bounces.

03. TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Spoiler: The Town Drunk

Read that name lmao

04. Nachomamma8

Spoiler: NachoDaddy

Abstract: No Read

One Post saying he'll check in tomorrow, will update once a sufficient read can be produced.

05. Fate

Spoiler: Karma

Abstract: Confused

I remember talking in the queue that playing a game with Fate was a pain and I'm starting to understand why.

I'll be honest and say I'm having a hard time getting a read from his slot.

Only thing that spiked my mind is him saying he had no history with Pine when after what was probably a waste of my life, he had these games he played with him:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=21228
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19615
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=19355
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=18662

06. drealmerz7

Spoiler: The Real Dreal

07. Monokuma (Nahdia + Road Kamelot)

Spoiler: Didn't even know this was a hydra lmao

08. mastina

Spoiler: Mastin Infinite

09. Aeronaut

Spoiler: Astronaught

10. Prism

Spoiler: Pink Floyd

11. SirCakez

Spoiler: Why America has a weight problem

12. Vaxkiller

Spoiler: Unvacinnated

13. pisskop

Spoiler: kisspop

So you have two reads total? And they're both slight scum reads?

If scum!Mastin, I'm seeing that she would have continued to justify a vote by saying I'm a lazy player or just a scum 'faking town behaviour' by producing a reads list and not finishing it, but I think the most damning thing that obliterates that accusation is that I was able to pull up a saved draft and hit upload in a mere two minutes.

There is also no way I could have written all those spoiler tags, formatted all my posts from before and came up with the puns for the other half of the player list without having done this beforehand with the intent of continuously filling out my book of reads.

LAMIST

Also, are you saying that Mastina is scum here? Because in your readslist thingy, she was one of the empty spoilers that made me die a little inside every time I opened them.

please let that dayvig shot be real

Ok, can you lay out what you actually think is scum about mastina? She's being silly, but there's definitely no scum motivation in it.

:scumposting:

Ok, do

you

see a scum motivation behind your play today?

Furthermore, do you understand why I'm asking people that question?

So one of BTD6 is probably scum, and one is probably town. Curious how mastina reacts to this, since she's the all-powerful pine-whisperer.

I'd say you're full of shit, and think it's scum shit not town shit.

I feel as if nacho!scum could have very easily pushed the opposite narrative as mastina, and tried to push it back on them instead of doing what he's doing here and trying to pull them out of their fixation and onto actual scum hunting. E.g Nacho is p clearly town in this post.

That would've been a scumclaim from Nacho, so no. He's not clearly town for the post.
What is he?

Well I just gave my word to not say.

I actually don't see how it would be a scum claim from his perspective. I know there's no way I could possibly comprehend the narrative you have going on in your head, but please try. I don't understand how you've ruled out the idea that you and nacho could both be town. If you say no, you haven't ruled it out, then him scumreading you would not be a scum claim.

[Aeronaut]

V/LA for a few days at least. I'm in the ER until further notice.

[Aeronaut]

Got back today, i'm about 15 pages behind. Will probably be able to finish up by tonight though

Hi Ari, hope ur not scum

[Aeronaut]

Alright, feeling quite a bit better. Thanks for the kind wishes before!

I'm going to *try* not to make huge wall posts, but honestly I'm gonna make what I make. If you really hate them feel free to complain.

I figured there is a vig. in the game and I was aware of such when I did it

The problem is: I knew there was a vig in the game, and you knew there was a vig in the game.
What's to stop the scum, especially Pine, from knowing there is a vig in the game?
...Yeah. They already knew it wasn't real.

You want a

real

gambit?

Try this one on for size:

I have a role which can confirm me as town

.
This is a wifom-post: I may be telling the truth, or I could be fakeclaiming town, or I could be bullshitting scum.
Now THERE'S a gambit for ya. What am I accomplishing with this claim? Is it real, or is it fake?

This is FAR superior to a fake-dayvig claim.

I'd believe it, tbh.

Mastina, pick a scum and make a case for me. I'm bored.

You want a case?
I'll give you three!
Here's my case on TheRealGin-N-Tonic.
Here's my case on Aeronaut.
And here's my case on Nacho!

As savage as it is to simply link three players ISO's instead of giving a case on any of them, I feel like you can't complain about the current site meta all game and then proceed to mimic it completely.

Ok, do

you

see a scum motivation behind your play today? Furthermore, do you understand why I'm asking people that question?

Yes, in fact I do see the scum motivation behind my play today. In fact, a large portion of my play this game I'm plagiarizing from my scumgame. Now there were tweaks involved to make it my towngame, of course, but a large portion of my posting is based upon my scumgame, and as a result, it is RIDICULOUSLY easy for me to see my posts as scum. Sometimes, I have to remind myself that I am in fact supposed to be playing a towngame, here.

So as a result: no, I do not see a town reason for you to be asking that question. I can see a reason to ask it as scum, but I see no reason for you to ask it as town.

Ok, first off, there's zero chance that you're plagiarizing an opening post 1v1, and then proceeding to refuse to lay down a single case from your scumgame; if you are, then you're very much overhyping yourself.

Second off; It's pretty clear to me, and should be clear to you, that scum is probably using you as a shield today. The people voting you, namely Sircakes and BTD, are there for no good reason, and as far as I'm concerned are vote parking. I haven't gotten to Ari's replace in yet but from what I've skimmed it's largely similar.

Now Drealmerz' reasoning on you is just as useless, except I've now watched him tunnel people like this in various games as town in an almost identical way, including most notably in Aeronaut's Drunken Christmas Party which just finished and I can finally talk about it, where he spent two game days tunneling the oblivion out of Titus in an almost identical way as what he's up to here with you.

It's ALMOST as if... you planned this whole thing as a charade to justify not having to buss each other? Maybe? Huh, huh, huh???????

Are you being sarcastic in this post or is this a real point you're trying to make?

[Aeronaut]

The entirety of #710 is pretty manufactured-sounding. It's mostly some very weak reasons for SRing Fate and then him justifying the switch from drealz with more silly bullshit.

Does anyone actually believe that Fate is town? All he has been doing is spreading miss-information, providing horrible reasons for his voting 418 432 Hes not even reading the thread 350 604!

Asks questions, but refuses to answer small legitimate ones asked of him: 577 578 579 580. All this translates to scum, and hes having a blast doing it. I'm having fun with this game too, but I can guarantee the scum are having even more fun.

Here Vax is absolutely appalled that anyone could think fate is town, what are we all doing?! Most of Vax's reasoning here is that Fate isn't reading the thread, and is therefore scum, which is at most anti-town.

Wait is camn allowed to post freely too or is that just flavor <_<

Worried?

Here he is commenting on a fluff post as if it's AI

Pine's tellign the truth here


Whichis exactly what I said

Nacho first round scum pick

Fate second round town pick

???

profit

You modified this a bit, and your using fate to defend yourself?

Nacho was a first round pick, Fate. You were a second round pick.

Hate to burst your bubble.

I know I said this before but post 628 reeks of someone thinking of a great joke, but has to wait for the right moment, when the blurt it out all the sudden and it sounds super rehearsed, like they have been waiting to say it for soooo long. As soon as you rolled scum you thought of this right?


VOTE: Fate
I still want dreal dead, once fate flips maybe more people will believe my dreal case.

Also, him asserting that 628 or really any of Fate's postings this game is

too rehearsed

and that's why fate is a really, really, silly accusation to make about fate, who I'm 90% sure just types letters and lets it autocorrect into words into this thread. Like, there's probably a lot of reasons that fate could be scum in this game, but rehearsed posts is not one of them.

I also dislike how he immediately feels the need to justify it, and when you think about it, this justification makes no sense; fate flipping scum would not make drealz seem any more scum worthy anyone, especially since fate has minimal interaction with him besides calling him scum. If anything, a drealz wagon could get marginally more traction if fate flipped town, but even then , nah. So this justification is shit, and this case is shit.

[Aeronaut]

my butt is a tender morsel

[Aeronaut]

Yeah I skimmed a few pages

SirCakez / dreamerz7 and Vaxkiller are my strongest picks for scum at the moment.

2/3.

I mean honestly I'd prefer my vote to still be on TheRealGin-N-Tonic because they haven't satisfied my needs yet for calling them town and there's lots of pressure on them and that pressure is good and mostly town and something I don't hate and by going off the wagon I weaken it and that's not something bad because a Gin lynch would in many ways be beneficial.

But strictly speaking, if we're talking players-who-have-literally-EVERY-reason-to-be-scum.
Aeronaut is by far the winner. No player fills as many criteria as he does. These criteria extend beyond Pine's picks, as I define them. Beyond Aeronaut as a town vs scum player, there's what Aeronaut has given us.

If we want a scum lynch, he's the best chance we have at getting one, better than any other player. I'd prefer not to push him yet which is why moving my vote off of TheRealGin-N-Tonic was probably premature. But justsayin'. This is where my vote stays unless I'm given damn good reason to shift it elsewhere because the only thing which'll change is the strength of my push here.

*sigh*

(That being said: yes he fills Pine's picks pretty well, too. I don't think camn knows about Aeronaut, so I don't think camn drafts Aeronaut. So that means that there's no time limit--Aeronaut could be Pine's first, second, or even third pick for the draft. He's up there though, in that Aeronaut fits most of the criteria I've defined. Strength as a scum player. Ability to manipulate players. Unknown factor, because he's reasonably obscure. He's not a big-name flashy player. He's low-key. He's effective. He's got the game history, so Pine knows about him. He works well with scumbuddies, so he's great to synchronize a scumteam. There's more, but you get the idea. Aeronaut is an ideal pick for Pine, and his play this game supports my theory because this is scumplay from Aeronaut. I've seen Aero as town, scum, and even third party, and I'm reasonably confident of this.)

Yeah, so while I'm flattered that you think I'm alright at scum play, I've also never finished a game with you where I was scum, unless you go around reading my games, which is doubtful, and by your own definition isn't enough to gain any real grasp on anything anyway.

The closest thing is in Drawn On Arrival, where I targeted a PGO as a backup SK like a doofus. If you want to point to that game and tell everyone it was stellar scum play, that'd be lovely, but I don't see how you would. I've also

never

completed a game with pine where I was scum. I've been town with him like 2-3 times, and I played god-awful. Why you assert that he didn't look around before he picked his picks, but then picked me from the two town games I played with him, I don't know.

I have a feeling you want to see how far you can get with me without providing any reasoning and instead just providing the promise that reasoning is there, and I'm telling you right now that you're absolutely wasting your time trying to do that with me.

mastina comes in guns blazing, ranting and raving that she's going to 1v1 you blah blah blah blah blah blah blah for pages and pages

Your entrance: (eloquently) mastina no.

mastina: oh ok (unvotes)

anyone who wasn't pinged by that is either not paying attention or seeing something we aren't.

I really don't think so.

[Aeronaut]

Monokuma you were doing great up until that last post, ew.

Monokuma you were doing great up until that last post, ew.

Feel free to vote with me before you catch up properly on Saturday; there's plenty of room on the bear wagon!

Oh I'll vote with you.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

VOTE: Gin N Tonic

It was also a trollvote. Thanks for another town, Pine.

Is there a reason you didn't join onto the bearwagon(tm) after the post that you deemed awful / nacho asking? Because that Gin vote is still from RVSish?

[Aeronaut]

mastin backing off nacho while still scumreading him is another scumtell

Fuck off.
No seriously.
I have nothing more to say to you than this.
I could explain to you any myriad of things about me.
I could explain to you any myriad of things about Nacho.
I could explain to you the intricate history and interplay we have.
But no.

I don't feel like dealing with that bullshit.

So instead I'm just going to say this one more time:
Fuck. off.

I seriously have a bad feeling about Mastin

Ok, well you're still voting Nacho in this post, because you had said in #325 that you were willing to listen to Mastina's point, and that you'd explain why in your readslist. You never explained why in your readslist (you just had mastina blank), so what were you going to say about that?

We believe his initial question was designed to give him some interaction with Pine, because he felt he needed some to be present. It felt stilted when it happened, and he clearly hasn't cared about the outcome, and he's failed to explain why he asked it in the first place.

So based on the amount of weight people are actually giving interactions with pine in this game (being none), do you really think that Fate felt the need to interact with Pine at all?

2.0

Town: Dreal, Vax, Mono, Nacho
Nulltown: Prism, Gin
Null: Aristo/PK, Jin, BTD6 (one of these three is scum if one of my scumreads isn't)
Nullscum: Aero
Scum: mastina, Fate

Can you explain your Vax and Mono townreads?

[Aeronaut]

this is painful to read

What I'm gaining is this is going in circles and Nacho and you aren't going to be convinced Mono is town

What I'm gaining is this is going in circles and Nacho and you aren't going to be convinced Mono is town

What Mono argument do you find compelling?
Let's talk about it!

Or, alternatively, can you tell me how Mono expected Fate to follow up with Pine's answer?

Or, alternatively, can you tell me with a straight face that Fate asking a question to Pine is equivalent with Gin's buddy buddy interactions with Pine?

I've been skimming honestly, it all started blending together
A concise explanation of your read on Mono would be awesome

SC complains about the thread being unreadable and the argument being circular instead of doing something, but then when Nacho engages him, he says he's been skimming and can't really answer. Sircakez is not trying to solve the game.

Oh. And we've received a communication from a reliable source (us) that a certain player (who reminds us of a dessert) is not, in fact, guilty at all!!! That player might even be...

TOWN!!!

The dessert, not us. But we're town too. Just not a dessert. Unless you count how our pillowy softness can be likened to a delicious marshmallow.

What, because he town reads you? Can you explain this?

Mastin if you're guaranteeing Pine made optimal picks based on your meta knowledge of him then we need to lynch Nacho and no one but Nacho until Nachos dead

Lynching Nacho is so sad though.

Mastina, I love the coloured avatar!

I keep waiting for Ari to post something indicative of anything, but it keeps not having happened.

....we're going in circles

Yes, and it's a closed circle, comprised of two binaries:
Pine either made wifom picks, or optimal picks. Binary number one.
We can either choose to enter the wifom game and try to figure out the above, or we can ignore the wifom game altogether. Binary number two.

If we enter the wifom game and try to figure out the first binary, I am telling you that Pine made the optimal picks.
If we choose to ignore the wifom game altogether, then I am telling you to assume Pine made the optimal picks, because that's what fucking ignoring the wifom game entails.

You can't go "but Pine could have picked the wifom picks!" without entering into the wifom game.
Ignoring the wifom game is therefore assuming...Pine picked the optimal picks.
But if you choose to enter into the wifom game...I am telling you the answer is Pine picked the optimal picks rather than the wifom picks.

So regardless of whether you enter into the wifom game, or whether you ignore the wifom game...the answer here is to assume...Pine picked the optimal choices.

Really not that hard to understand.

Your reasoning is flawed. It can be used to explain that it is more likely that Pine picked optimal picks but not guarantee it. What stops someone from entering the WIFOM game and then coming to the conclusion that Pine made WIFOM picks?

I can explain this using an analogy from the wiki:

When chasing down a dangerous criminal, a policeman comes to a fork in the road. To the left is a dark alleyway where the criminal would have a moderate chance of escaping (even if the cop correctly follows him that direction) (I am assuming 50% chance of getting caught here). To the right is a well-lit boulevard where the criminal would surely be caught. The policeman doesn't know which way the criminal went. If he guesses wrong, the criminal will easily make a clean getaway.
If you were the criminal, which way would you go?
If you were the policeman, which way would you guess the criminal went?

The correct answer is for the criminal to run through the alleyway 2/3 of the time and the boulevard 1/3 of the time and for the policeman to do the same.

Likewise, assuming Pine plays optimally, Pine should have a chance greater than random of making optimal picks (as, ignoring the fact that Pine drafted the team, optimal picks are more likely to win) but have a chance of making WIFOM picks.

(The other examples can be analysed similarly and give similar results, though the one about who to kill out of the innocent, lynchbait, and thinker is a false dichotimy - or in this case a trichotomy - that ignores the possibility that you No Kill).

Ok, you're right, but I don't understand why you're still having this argument with Mastina and nothing else. Do you really think that her being wrong about how WIFOM works has anything to do with her alignment?

First off, Pisskop was the beginning slot, he started out the game and continued the pattern of fluffing and frivolous shit posting. When he did post, there wasn't reasoning attached to it, all of them were baseless and were said to just be said.

It also doesn't help that the slot replacement, Ari can't play scum to save his life, in essence making it a suicide slot. The quotes I put in a spoiler, and really they are all his ISO, is literally no game contribution and doesn't address anyone game related.

Also a quick VCA is that scum will disperse their votes to hide in the crowd, so there will be 1/2 in the main wagons and 1/2 in a slot that's been voted once or they are the only vote. Now, looking at the babywagons that happened in D1, the beginning started with dreal and Fate.

Looking at that, Pisskop gave a weak reason which was really a hesitant question more than accusation and put his vote on dreal. The vote only moved from dreal to Fate and this occurred when Pisskop said, Fate was his top scum read, but again, there was no explanation attached to it, essentially making it a naked vote because it is knowingly implied that if you vote someone, it is because you think they are scum.

I am almost 100% confident that Pisskop has been staying off of the main wagons to avoid any serious attention and shitpost so you think to just ignore him.

VOTE: Aristophanes

Ok, while you could be right about ari being scum since at the time of this post, he's still contributed nothing, most of your case above is on Pisskop, and I don't know if you've played with pisskop, but what you've described is just what he does regardless of alignment.

Hey if you need to buy any tickets, I got a great site for ya.
https://www.busbuster.com/en/carriers/g ... hgodmygBWA

Hahahahahaha

At this point we know Ari is 100% scum. There is no need not to vote this guy up. Mastin is town simple as that.

Look, Mastin is one of those that you require to use over half of the entire tool belt to lynch and those tools can't be used until flips have been made later down the road. That's what you get for being experienced as scum. However it's pretty clear she'll be killed N1 or N2, after that, it's worth taking into consideration...

I simply don't understand the value of going on a possible mislynch over a conf!scum lynch.

Um, what? How did we go from "Ari isn't posting anything significant, and therefore is scum" to "Ari is confscum"?

UNVOTE:

What in Ari's two posts of catchup made you unvote confirmed scum?

[Aeronaut]

Cakez, you can stop trying to discredit my push as it is still very much there.

You can ask almost anyone in the playerlist, and Ari himself which I can quote him saying IN THIS GAME, that he can't play scum at all and won't post in-game content. It's a rare situation to call someone conf!scum based on their meta, and Ari might be able to help me out here, but there was a game where he replaced in as scum and was the perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's just part of Ari and it's a singular case that wouldn't normally apply to someone else.

Also, once Ari said he'd be going through the thread, which he started doing, I saw content, opinions being formed, so naturally this heavily tilts the read on that slot. Now, Ari has to keep it up because I will be hounding him for content and if he's scum, he'll break.

Ok, so in your eyes, couldn't Ari have read your case on him and decided to produce content, then? Are you assuming he's town as long as he's posting something game-wise?

[Aeronaut]

Aero, I will not answer questions I have already answered. You may continue to read the thread to find your enlightenment if you wish.

Gin, are you trying to push Ari because you think he's scum, or because you want to sort him? There's a difference.

[Aeronaut]

Yawn. Entertain me, mortals.

Heyo let's all come along,
Let us gather to hear this song,
It is a tale told far and wide,
About the scumfuck known as Pine.

He came to violate our dear camn,
To ruin her carefully concocted plan,
But here the forces of good will fight,
To destroy the evil known as Pine.

Heyo, let's all sing this song,
And in the process dump our thoughts,
To ask what we see and why,
To see through deceit and lies.

I say his ally is the yellow mouse,
His treachery shouldn't be allowed,
We should not allow him or his kind,
So full of their deceit and lies.

Heyo, let's keep going strong,
Don't be tempted to go wrong,
We're all here with a purpose to find,
Those that were corrupted by Pine.

Among their ranks is Aristophanes,
Who'd be a great lynch on this day,
I say that ending would be fine,
As it would so be damaging to Pine.

Heyo, let's lynch the Aeronaut,
Or maybe Agent Jin if not,
I say this with a sigh,
Don't be corrupted by their lies.

We can be a complacent lot,
So don't let our dear town rot,
Please I beg you to hear my cry,
You've fallen victim to deceit and lies.

This tale should not end here,
And that is my greatest fear,
That soon I will not be alive,
And you'll fall victim to the Pine.

*snaps*

And? I'm pretty sure that's what most of this game thinks, since it's you know, common sense.
Yep, I'm the only one who thinks we shouldn't let a game designed to fuck with us fuck with us, obviously. That's why nacho is the leading wagon, right?

Mafia exercise time.

This is a really fun one, I promise you.

Who here can spot the problematic nature of these two statements being placed back-to-back?

There's something very glaringly obvious in here. I could tell you at any time, but I want you to think for a sec, stretch your minds, and see if you're capable of figuring it out for yourselves.

I'm fairly certain the second half of this post is sarcastic. Like, I'd bet on that. Did you not catch that or did I miss something else in my reading of it?

I'm aware of Aeronaut being sarcastic. It's what the sarcasm is saying which contributes to the problem. The sarcasm, translated into non-sarcastic language, says, "Everyone knows this, and nobody's listened".

In the second bit? No, it translates to please stop pushing Nacho using setup spec reasoning, because it was just making you silly and tunnely. And look, it worked. You're not quibbling with us about setup spec like you're in a newbie game and actually starting to play the game instead.

The entirety of #710 is pretty manufactured-sounding. It's mostly some very weak reasons for SRing Fate and then him justifying the switch from drealz with more silly bullshit.

Does anyone actually believe that Fate is town? All he has been doing is spreading miss-information, providing horrible reasons for his voting 418 432 Hes not even reading the thread 350 604!

Asks questions, but refuses to answer small legitimate ones asked of him: 577 578 579 580. All this translates to scum, and hes having a blast doing it. I'm having fun with this game too, but I can guarantee the scum are having even more fun.

Here Vax is absolutely appalled that anyone could think fate is town, what are we all doing?! Most of Vax's reasoning here is that Fate isn't reading the thread, and is therefore scum, which is at most anti-town.

Wait is camn allowed to post freely too or is that just flavor <_<

Worried?

Here he is commenting on a fluff post as if it's AI

Pine's tellign the truth here


Whichis exactly what I said

Nacho first round scum pick

Fate second round town pick

???

profit

You modified this a bit, and your using fate to defend yourself?

Nacho was a first round pick, Fate. You were a second round pick.

Hate to burst your bubble.

I know I said this before but post 628 reeks of someone thinking of a great joke, but has to wait for the right moment, when the blurt it out all the sudden and it sounds super rehearsed, like they have been waiting to say it for soooo long. As soon as you rolled scum you thought of this right?


VOTE: Fate
I still want dreal dead, once fate flips maybe more people will believe my dreal case.

Also, him asserting that 628 or really any of Fate's postings this game is

too rehearsed

and that's why fate is a really, really, silly accusation to make about fate, who I'm 90% sure just types letters and lets it autocorrect into words into this thread. Like, there's probably a lot of reasons that fate could be scum in this game, but rehearsed posts is not one of them.

I also dislike how he immediately feels the need to justify it, and when you think about it, this justification makes no sense; fate flipping scum would not make drealz seem any more scum worthy anyone, especially since fate has minimal interaction with him besides calling him scum. If anything, a drealz wagon could get marginally more traction if fate flipped town, but even then , nah. So this justification is shit, and this case is shit.

This post is really interesting. Before I give my thoughts, Aero, can you tell me why fate is scum to you?

As far as I've seen, he's not trying to solve the game, he's more just waffling around. Recently he's had a few more solidified reads on people, but even then it's minimal and not what I really thought I'd see from one of the top three people that mastina thinks should have been first round picks.

Having said that, most of the others who followed me onto this wagon did it for bad to no reasoning, so it's making me second guess it entirely.

As for why my vote's stayed the same, it's because I haven't finished reading unfortunately.

[Aeronaut]

Actually, that brings me to a good point.

@Mastina,

how extensive is your history with fate, and barring setup spec, what do you think of him this game?

[Aeronaut]

{mastina, Nacho}
{dreal, Fate}
{Prism, SirCakez}
{Secret Agent Jin, Aeronaut}
{Vax, BTD6, Monkuma, Ari}
{}

SAJ, Ari, Monkuma, and BTD6 are my lynch pool of the day

Why aren't I in that lynchpool if Jin is? And why isn't Vax there if we are?

@mastina
You con'd yourself with that post.

VOTE: mastina

Dreal, assuming mastina flips scum, you are likely town. Help me lynch fate tomorrow.

If she somehow flips town, your town read goes out the window, and I'm sure you will have some excuse for not voting fate.

How? Why couldn't they be both town?

why the literal fuck is theres still a mastina wagon

If we have a multi shot vig FIRE BOMB THAT WAGON AND GAME OVER

This

The drealmerz wagon is one of the sketchiest wagons in the game. If there's any wagon comprised mostly of scum, it'd be this one. It was early-on and had no basis in reality.

If it's early on, doesn't no basis in reality make a lot of sense?

The Fate wagon was driven not by Aeronaut, who just kinda started it. His reasoning? His literal first mention of Fate? The vote itself, where he declared, "Do stuff". Literally his reason for his current vote. And the wagon was also not driven by pisskop (Aristophanes), who blatantly jumped on. (The most you get in terms of reasoning? "congrats on picking on noncontent slots instead of ingame stuff". That was it.) Vaxkiller was one of the main proponents for it, as was Monokuma. This is one reason I find Vaxkiller less suspicious than others: he's actually driving the wagon. (He also made his reasons for suspecting me clear, which is why his switch onto me wasn't bad.) Prism, the late joiner giving a resurgence in the wagon, is also a weaker pusher there.

To be fair, I voted fate, got the flu, and then did a catchup. That's not quite the same.

Aero I went back and reread the game and then gave my opinion to try to shut down the bad Monokuma wagon. That's most certainly not doing nothing.
Try harder to throw shade.

Yeah, but you spent most of the day doing fuck all, and that's my issue. Generally I always find that people that spend the whole time complaining about how the game is either too long or too noisy or too hard to get anything from aren't trying that hard and are probably scum to begin with.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, I'm finished.

VOTE: Sircakes

[Aeronaut]

{Mastina, Nachomamma8}
{drealmerz7}
{TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Prism}
{Monokuma, BTD6_MAKER, Jin}
{Fate, Aristophanes}
{SirCakez, Vaxkiller}

[Aeronaut]

No, it translates to please stop pushing Nacho using setup spec reasoning, because it was just making you silly and tunnely. And look, it worked. You're not quibbling with us about setup spec like you're in a newbie game and actually starting to play the game instead.

One, taking credit for something you had fuckall to do with, and two, still doesn't negate the issue there. Also, can I point out the irony in you claiming this in the same post you also mention this?

Recently he's had a few more solidified reads on people, but even then it's minimal and

not what I really thought I'd see from one of the top three people that mastina thinks should have been first round picks.

(I mean there's more wrong in this post than just that which makes Aero scum, butstill, this should nicely highlight some interesting shit about Aeronaut.)

e.g. you think that because they're probably good players.

Man playing a game with Mastina is like playing a game with Titus.

[Aeronaut]

I've laid out my reasoning for people Mastina. You don't have to follow it, Mastina, but I'm just very sick of hearing "Oh ooh I have stuff on Aero" when you don't seem to care enough to push it to begin with. In fact, half your reads are because of people who are just on wagons without pushing them, but you're not pushing anything either, so i don't know why you expect anything to happen.

P-edit: There was enough evidence for you, maybe, but most of those posts were nonsensical to begin with.

[Aeronaut]

No, it translates to please stop pushing Nacho using setup spec reasoning, because it was just making you silly and tunnely. And look, it worked. You're not quibbling with us about setup spec like you're in a newbie game and actually starting to play the game instead.

One, taking credit for something you had fuckall to do with, and two, still doesn't negate the issue there. Also, can I point out the irony in you claiming this in the same post you also mention this?

Recently he's had a few more solidified reads on people, but even then it's minimal and

not what I really thought I'd see from one of the top three people that mastina thinks should have been first round picks.

(I mean there's more wrong in this post than just that which makes Aero scum, butstill, this should nicely highlight some interesting shit about Aeronaut.)

e.g. you think that because they're probably good players.

Which...doesn't negate my point.

Yes it does?

Man playing a game with Mastina is like playing a game with Titus.

Son, I TAUGHT Titus how to play.

...No, seriously, she actually asked me to help her improve her play at one point and I did what I could to give her tips to do exactly that. She's one of my former students.

Great, she tunnels town and setup spec into oblivion like you do

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, I need to calm down.

Mastina, I'm done with this pissing match. I don't like to play this way, so I'm not going to. We could either work together or we can't but the fact that you're so, very, incredibly sure of yourself is telling me that it's useless to try to reason with you.

When you've woken up from your tunnel-slumber, you let me know when you want to work with me.

[Aeronaut]

I'm out for a DnD session tn,

You know, I'd be super down for a Mafiascum D&D sesh. Is that a part of Mish Mash or do I have to make it one?

K, so here is what I've gathered as reads from the first half(ish) of the game.

Towny: Nacho, Monokuma, Cakez (based on Pine's maybe a slip?), Prsim
Null: Fate (mostly noise), Aero (because undecided)
Scummy: Mastina, Dreal or Gin
Scum: PINE

Mastina should be playing better if scum, and I may change this read, but I can't ket her off the hook for this scummy AF play she's doing.
Gin, I like you, but you started out Scummy and haven\t rebounded.
Dreal...I can't remember, but I know it was something about his tone and probably reactions to shit.

Anyway, these are the slots I want to focus on.

So what do you mean about fate being "Mostly noise"? I feel like a good description of a player whose mostly noise is someone who is posting about things like probabilities and setup spec and past games, which could describe a few players in this game, but certainly not Fate. What did you think about fate jumping onto Nacho after Mastina's Speccase, for one?

Also, is your cakez read purely from that pine wifom post?

prod dodge, I vehemently oppose a mastina lynch still and will kill anyone not named Nacho, Aeronaut, or Gin and tonic


highly prefer monokuma, vaxkiller, aristo,

The three people you won't kill kind of intrigues me, since you were scumreading Gin for like a long time, and as far as I go, you haven't mentioned your thoughts on me once, and haven't really done much interacting with me. Why the sudden TR, or at least will to keep me around?

ifonly I had the power

Drealz, let's talk.

I'm pretty sure you're town here, but you're doing the same tunnel thing you did in ADCP, and you were wrong there. I know you're sure sure SURE of yourself here, but let's assume you're wrong for a moment; do you have other people you think are scum? You've mentioned people, yeah, but those people keep changing, and I'm curious where your head is at re: people who aren't mastina.

No, it still doesn't. You advocated against the logic of Pine's picks. You then go on to use the logic behind Pine's picks. You're trying to have your cake and eat it.

No, I was saying that you had this idea that at least one of you, fate, and nacho had to be in Pine's picks. You're someone who is pretty well known and has been around for some time, so I figure that you probably know when a player is good and then they aren't. You assuming that Fate and nacho had to be first round picks tells me that you think they're good players, which regardless of the picks, is probably true.

Aero I went back and reread the game and then gave my opinion to try to shut down the bad Monokuma wagon. That's most certainly not doing nothing.
Try harder to throw shade.

Yeah, but you spent most of the day doing fuck all, and that's my issue. Generally I always find that people that spend the whole time complaining about how the game is either too long or too noisy or too hard to get anything from aren't trying that hard and are probably scum to begin with.

lol this is total bull and anyone who's been reading the game would know that

Yes, it is bullshit!

Relevant

Mastin, whats your thoughts on the bear?

North of the null line by some considerable yet undefined margin. And in this case: I really do mean undefined. Not, "defined, but I refuse to release the exact amount". I really mean, "some undefined amount which I haven't a fucking clue about". I don't think they're scum. I'm not sure by how much I don't think they're scum. I just don't think there's been a single successful wagon on a player who's actually scum. Not Fate, not SirCakez, not drealmerz, not Monokuma, not you.

When Pine said "you guys haven't a clue".
And that his team is doing well.

No joke.
I think he was well within his rights to have made that claim in absolute sincerity.

Now the scumteam might not be Aeronaut-Aristophanes-Jin. Fuck, it's possible none of them are! That in BTD6/Vaxkiller/Prism we've got the actual scumteam. I mean, I've laid out my reasons why I more or less don't think Vaxkiller is scum, and have my doubts about Prism/BTD6_maker being scum. I've begun to give reasons for the others being scum even if not by much. But I think the scum are in those six names.

And none of them are anywhere remotely close to being lynched, none of them are even remotely close to so much as having a wagon on them. So none of the people up for the lynch are players I actually think are scum.

Now, I'm still debating in my head about whether I want to push Aeronaut, believe it or not. I'm not sure I actually do. And even if I do, while I've got the list of facts for why he's scum inventoried in my head, translating those into words might be a bit difficult and I'm not quite sure where I'd begin.

But what I won't do is lynch any of Fate/Nacho/Gin/Monokuma/SirCakez/drealmerz today.
That's my stance.

Alright, so if you're not going to push me today, who are you going to push?

I really want to hear from

Aristo, Monokumo, and prism on what they think about mastina

dreal, sir cakez, btd6 on what they think about fate

aero, I would like to hear your current thoughts on fate and mastina

Also aero, I have not forgot about you, I jut don't have time at the moment to write something out to you.

Can I ask why you chose those specific people to talk about those people respectively?

I've laid out my thoughts on Mastina quite a bit, but I can see how it's hard to parse through our walls. I don't think she's scum, and haven't all game. The people pushing her are doing so with vague to nonexistent reasoning. You for example had a TR on her at the start, but then later made the case that her earlier posting was not giving you good vibes before, and then after she made her post about how good she is as scum, voted her I guess for that? It's not a good case, but it's still the best of the people on that wagon.

Everyone else is pushing her for trying to use setup spec as a means to auto-POE people, as if scum!Mastina wouldn't have been able to come in and fabricate real reads on us. I also find it next to impossible to believe that scum would come in and 1v1 Nacho, because if that succeeded, now all that she has is the entire thread trying to lynch her D2 because of the bullshit setup spec she tried to push on D1.

E.g. people are failing to see the difference between scum, and incredibly anti-town, and/or pushing her for that bad reasoning because they don't know what else to do.




Regarding Fate, I'm currently very torn; Reading fate alone, no, I wouldn't say he's trying to solve the game. The one thing that does make me feel otherwise is his whole interaction with Nacho later on, where he says that a lot of his "scumreading" of nacho was just him trying to make nacho awkward and pressured; I honestly sort of believe that, strangely, because I usually don't believe that kind of thing. If that's true, Fate's at least doing something. Besides that, though, most of it is kind of sub-par from what he's supposedly supposed to be capable of, according to Mastina and from what I've heard in the GOAT thread.

The thing that gives me pause though is that I really hate the pushes on him. Mono's push on him was based originally on interactions with

pine

, and the fact that they're assuming that Fate really felt like he needed interactions with Pine, which makes zero sense from any perspective. Your push doesn't make any sense to me either, that fate of all people in this game had artificial-sounding-posting syndrome; I don't actually know Fate and haven't played with him, but his behavior in this game is lot of things that aren't that. Ari's vote was/is still there from the pisskop-times so that's useless.

That stuff worries me enough that I don't want to lynch Fate today, either. This has been a weird game in that there haven't been too many real wagons going on, which makes me feel like some of the people poorly pushing what we

do

have are just scum who are looking for a place to rest their vote until the day's over.

[Aeronaut]

Mono, is your case on fate still that he interacted with pine and that he ignored you? Or am I wrong in that assumption?

[Aeronaut]

Also, Mastina, I thought I'd asked this earlier but I can't find it, but what are you opinions on Fate? someone asked you before and you never gave a real answer, so I'm asking you now.

I would have thought that your POE thing would have made you assume that if Nacho is town and you're town, then Fate must be scum from your perspective right?

[Aeronaut]

Finishing up the paper I'm writing, and then I'll catchup on the

fifteen

pages oh my gosh people

[Aeronaut]

I wasnt scumreading Gin for a long time this misconception was already cleared up

Yes Aero!town is a new read given you actually posting and some of mastinas vca

I don't see how Mastina's VCA would make you townread me though? She was trying to point out that I was scum in that.

You know, I'd be super down for a Mafiascum D&D sesh. Is that a part of Mish Mash or do I have to make it one?

I think you'd have to make it.
I also think it'd be mega-slow.
Also, I'd love love love LOVE to be a part of it.
I've wanted to be a part of a D&D campaign ever since I heard of D&D, which at this point has to be...oh, at least twelve years ago if not more.

Yet I have zero contacts in real life who'd have this as a possibility, and every time this comes up online, there's zero followthrough, or the method that's chosen is one that involves real-time playing in order to combat the mega-slow nature of internet-based D&D. (I can't do real-time playing.)

On an actual game note: Fuck you, Aero.
You were totally not only Pine's first pick, but also an extraordinarily good one because you're better at convincing and manipulating people than you say you are and you're so damn good at it that in spite of me

knowing

that you were his first pick you're actually making me feel otherwise.

VOTE: Prism.
This, to answer who I would push.
Prism's attitude towards me is something I won't tolerate. Writing me off as useless was cute when it was the RVS. Not so much now, especially when Prism's done fuckall since then. I can understand the idea, in theory, of someone not listening to me in a game. But not so much in this game. Now granted, what said player actually hears may differ. Of the twelve players listening to me, there are twelve different ideas of what I'm actually saying. (I'm counting Pine among them.) BTD6, SirCakez, drealmerz, and Vaxkiller say it's scummy shit, but they've listened. Monokuma has listened to me and wants more. Nacho has concluded I'm town but wrong. Fate has listened but I don't know what he's said.
And so on and so forth.
The point I'm getting at here is that every player in the game has said they are reading my posts and trying to do something with them.
Every player, except Prism.

And Prism has said, "not worth it, gonna assume null, not going to bother to sort, not going to bother to read, not going to do anything there". That callous attitude towards a

very fucking important part of the game

is not something I associate with town. And me saying I'm an important part of the game isn't ego--it's simple objective truth.
I have one of the highest post counts in the game, second only to Gin in fact.
I have one of the largest wagons in the game, second only to the brief L-2 Fate wagon. I am the currently-largest wagon.
This is all objective facts which are 100% accurate

and

relevant no matter what.
For objective facts which may or may not be relevant, you can also add in:
-I have more game history with Pine than any other player here.
-I have significant game history with Nacho.
-I have quite a bit of game history with many other players in this game.
-I am considered by many players to be a very significant player on mafiascum. People think I'm good. People think it so much that they have a higher expectation of me than I am realistically able to deliver.

Those are also all objectively true.
And it doesn't even begin to factor in the subjectivity of my claim to be a very important part of the game.
The simple fact is, Prism is ignoring me, and is either an alt or someone who has mastered the old perception of me that veteran players used to take, to ignore me if for no other reason on policy alone, because surely the words of mastina, the wallposter mastina, the infamous mastina, is someone not worth paying attention to, who says a lot of meaningless shit and nothing of importance. That's the attitude Prism is displaying and that's the attitude old veterans would display to me, but it's NOT the attitude a new player displays to me.

Then you get into what Prism has done.
What

has

Prism done?
Can you answer me even that much?

Prism may have a recent V/LA of some sort in effect, would have to check for how long and starting when and when it ends, but the fact is, prior to that point, what did Prism do? Prism had a strong early start, sure, pushing Gin-N-Tonic. But other than that, they've done basically nothing. And even their Gin push was weaker than some of the other members of the wagon there.

I know, I could be shooting myself in the foot for reneging my early townread there. But if I don't see Prism produce something worthwhile, I'm not going to be so sorrowful about it.

I don't understand any part of this at all; Like you could say Prism's not doing anything, but there's people who are doing a lot less things, like SC or jin, or BTD6, people who are kind of getting by. Or you could say, Prism isn't listening to you, but I don't see a scum motivation there at all. I feel like scum is definitely going to take a stance on you, because otherwise it's shady as fuck.

Choose fate or mastina

I'll make the choice easy on ya.
I don't think there's a risk of me being lynched.
But there's a risk of me being moronically vigged depending on who holds the vig role.
I didn't want to claim in case the scum's role was a roleblocker, but I suppose I'll have to take the risk.

I am a 1-shot masonizer

.
Remember when I said I had an ability which could confirm me as town?
This was it.

If I target town, my target will become a mason with me. Our talk would be night-time only.
If I target scum, my ability will fail.

Of course, I had already softclaimed, and the scum know that I'm town and the town doesn't, so that also contributed to my decision here to claim.
I intend to use my power tonight. Who I use it on, for obvious reasons, I shan't disclose. But obviously, a vig vigging me would feel awfully fucking stupid the morning after when they realize they shot confirmed town, so here ya go. The person I target, should I succeed, will be able to verify my claim D2, making us either scumbuddies, or both town.

Take that into advisement.

This was not a smart move by any means, but there's an upside; we can watch the people on Mastina's wagon try to jump onto someone else before DL; the people with no reads besides mastina especially, will be the easiest to see from that.

I'm a much better lynch than mastina for anyone who wants to switch and make somethign happen before deadline

also willing to flash wagon dreaamrez

..... Why Drealz?

Anyone seriously still wanting to d1 lynch mastina after that claim needs to check themselves.

Imagine we wrote a big long paragraph full of florid metaphors on how ridiculous voting mastina here. There are beautiful metaphors and heart-rending similes and it's just the most beautiful thing you've ever read. It's just so deeply moving that your vote still being on mastina brings you to tears. You enter a prolonged existential crisis, questioning your very identity as a mafia player, because you come to realize just how inane and foolish your play has been. You slump over in your office chair or in your bean bag or whatever sitting apparatus you use to perch yourself in front of a computer and read internet mafia. A haze fills your mind as your vision begins to blur into nothing and your hearing is washed out with a dull yet pervasive ringing. Are you dead? Perhaps. You begin to dream. Your mind takes you on a grandiose journey as you seek to reinvent yourself. For many dream-years, you become an eremite, dedicating yourself only to the study of mafia theory. Your days are filled with pouring over ISOs and conducting VCA in games you spectate. Your nights are sleepless. Eventually, you awake from your dream state and find yourself still in your computer using butt-apparatus. You are weak and hungry and smelly. Though many years passed in the confines of your mind, only three days have passed in the real world. Still, you feel a great deal older. You realize with a start that deadline has not hit. You have been prodded, but not yet replaced. Quickly, you at long last begin down your triumphant path to redemption. You mend the mistakes of your imbecilic past; you unvote mastina.

To be honest, this is not solving the game, this is defending a confirmable-claimed player.

[Aeronaut]

All of that and you still are managing to misvote all on your own because of your own hyperinflated ego.

^Another attitude which contributes to the alt accusation.
Old players think I have an ego. (With the occasional exception.)
New players don't. (With the occasional exception.)

I've got less ego than basically any other player in the game. I doubt myself.
Consistently!
Doubt myself. Every step of the way.
I consider my flaws.
I consider the problems.
I consider all of the ways I am probably wrong.
I know that everything I do could be a mistake.
And I absolutely hate myself for it. I loathe how imperfect I am. I see every mistake before it happens, and that means every time I let the mistake happens, it's all the worse because of it. Because seeing a mistake and letting it happen is TEN times worse than not having seen the mistake when it happened in terms of competency.

In no uncertain terms, do I explain this to others.
In no uncertain terms, does the message get across easily to players.
This is the first game I've had with TheRealGin-N-Tonic, drealmerz, BTD6_maker, and Secret Agent Jin, among others.
It is one of my first games with Nahdia.

Yet none of them accuse me of having an ego, because all of them know I don't have one.

If you were an alt, your behavior would make sense.
If you were scum and Pine gave you knowledge of my past (especially by linking to past games), then your behavior would make sense.
But as town I don't see you viewing my posts this way with no prior mastina experience. Because the demeaning attitude you take. Your aura of superiority you try to take over me. The accusations you're making. They don't match reality. Not this game's reality, at the very least.

I'm hoping that you're not still pushing Prism 30 pages later, because this isn't an arguement, this is you making an argument about whether prism is an alt a day before deadline.

I jsut took a look at mastinas read list to see who her town reads were, and realized I have zero myself. If she IS town, I have no idea who I would trust that she might pick.

Ok, so what you're telling me is that you don't have townreads because you've been pushing the same two people the entire game.

Aero, get your ass back on fate, dreal, help me lynch fate and we will lynch mastina tomorrow (because I know her ability is going to fail somehow). BTD6, same goes for you about mastina

Also, why you're still trying to lynch a claimed town-confirmable role is beyond me

Give me your thoughts on my early scum read on SAJ please

01. Secret Agent Jin

Spoiler: The Other Less Cool Jin

Abstract: Beginning scum lean for fence sitting behavior

Post 187, Para 1: My first impression is a subtle distancing with dreal. I mainly don't like the fact that that the way Jin i setting up his reads in a way that they can change quite easily. With Dreal, he says that normally he'd look scummy but he'll null him until he comes under heat. This reads to me as a set up to a bus if the situation arises.

Post 187, Para 3: To continue the idea that formulated in my head, here he said Mastin would have been a town lean but he's willing to not read town and say she's scum. I think again that it's just early game set up to allow him to sway his opinion on a player to follow what the town thinks so he doesn't come under much suspicion.

Post 187, Para 4: To answer Jin's question, he answers it in the prelude to giving the question. Jin specifically stated that he believed what Mastin was doing so the purpose of asking if Mastin's post being genuine or fabricated has me puzzled.

Post 187, Para 5: This paragraph, I don't believe in because Mastin's reasoning is basically focusing on Nacho as the main threat and if he's not scum, then ergo Mastin is scum. That's a dangerous gambit to put oneself as scum and makes her the center of attention. I don't doubt that Mastin can handle being center of attention as scum but she's right in saying that as scum, it's not smart to make yourself prime lynching material.

Post 208: I'm looking at this post as a reason to not give a definitive statement as to what he thinks about Mastin's alignment. You can attempt to come to the conclusion that she's town for saying to lynch her on D2 if she's wrong or push an angle that it's scum making it all for info manipulation latter down the road. Either way, either option has to sound better in your mind and not giving a statement about what you actually think is continuous fence sitting like I've pointed out earlier.

Well, the first part is assuming that Dreal is scum, which very likely isn't true. Part 3/4 are pretty spot on though, mostly the parts about being wishy washy on mastina. I think that it's pretty likely that not only do scum feel like they probably have to give an opinion on a player like mastina in this game, but that Pine probably specifically told them to. The majority of 187 is Jin saying why mastina could be scum, and then why that same reason could make her town, and then after every sentence, he just says "It's all WIFOM anyway", which means there was no reason for this post to exist in the first place.

[Aeronaut]

In that same vein, here's Jin saying *things* about nacho, but they're all in relation to something pine said.

So Pine, like, are you trying to keep him alive by making us think you want him lynched and then we think he is town because you would never say to lynch your own team but you actually did pick him for your team? Or are you trying to get him lynched by saying to lynch him which we think is actually your attempt to save a scum member so we would consider him town and then we actually lynch him because we would say you knew we would townread him for what you did but actually we scumread him and my brain exploded.

What does Pine gain from saying he wants a Nacho lynch actually say? I think Pine knows we would townread Nacho for that so he said it because he actually wants us to scumread Nacho but we are smarter than to fall for Pine's trap and he knows that so he thinks we will townread Nacho when we actually need to scumread nacho.

I quit, i am out, im done, im going to bed.

The only other thing Jin says about nacho is that he doesn't think that he and Mastina are scumbuddies, which is the equivalent to saying there's going to be an NCIS marathon on USA today

[Aeronaut]

You're about as picture-perfect as it gets for scum laying low and keeping their options open

Actually, the player who best fits that description is Secret Agent Jin.
The player who probably second-best fits that description is Aristophanes.
After that...well, you have to divide it up. You're third in terms of keeping options open. BTD6 would probably be third in laying low.
Monokuma is probably fourth in both, though I suppose you could argue third in both with you/BTD6 as fourth in each half. (It's a close race.)

No, I'd say it's definitely Monokuma above all of them in terms of laying low, or at least tied with Jin. Most of Mono's posting, especially lately, have been little commentaries and nothing of any sort of substance. The last thing I remember them doing is having that halfassed thing with Fate, which was entirely based on some pine WIFOM, and Fate not answering something they asked which is weak as fuck. After that, it's been cryptic non-reads and just commentary type posting.

I'll point them out to you when they inevitably show up in the next 20 pages.

There's nothing suspicious about claiming at L-3.

@Mastina. This for example after like ten people already said it.

@Nacho:

I want your reaction to me/mastina. What you think it means for my alignment and why.

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: TheRealGinNTonic

This is my next scumread after Mastina.

Is Mastina confirmable? I do not know for sure. If Mastina is scum, it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner. We should wait for a while until Day 2 or 3 (probably 3) and seeing if Mastina dies or not (although scum may gambit by not killing Mastina). For now, I think I will let Mastina live.

Vaxkiller, I may be willing to vote Fate but first can you please give a summary of your case on Fate?

Why is Gin your next scumread, and why would you vote for him and then spend the rest of the post talking about Mastina?

SAJ's ISO is hot garbage so I would compromise there but I'm not letting Fate get away without a fight.

I feel like this post makes a SAJ-Cakez scum team a thousand times more likely.

Hard assumptions: Gin is town; Prism is town.

Can you explain your Gin read again to me? I've had him as null for most of the game, and maybe I just haven't paid enough attention there, but I don't see the same hard obvious town that you do.

HOW IN ALL OF FUCK AM I AT L-3?

Secret Agent Jin, BTD6, Prism and Dreal. Explain your god damn votes

Like, these two posts don't really shine the word town at my face.

[Aeronaut]

I say we save camn the trouble of finding a replacement for the slot and lynch it before it comes to that.

Yeah. I'd like to finish reading the rest of this before we do that though, since YOU STILL CAN'T QUOTE LOCKED THREADS ON THIS SITE

[Aeronaut]

Just to be absolutely clear, here:

Nacho:

TheRealGin-N-Tonic:

Prism:

Fate:

All four of you, we can work together well and assume each other to be town solidly, but we need two others to be town in order to lock down a town win with absolute certainty. My proposed additions are

SirCakez

and

Vaxkiller

.
I would like that to be the winning townbloc. I can explain any of these in particular, especially the top five but also in SirCakez and Vaxkiller for why I think they're not actually scum.

Right now, we're not scumhunting. We're aiming to townhunt, to lock the game down, deny the scum any possible coverage.

SirCakez, Vaxiller:

Fuck your scumreads on me. You'll need to listen. This is the time where we absolutely break Pine. Town synergy right here and now is key. Nacho is feeling it, I'm feeling it, we're building everything up which needs to be built up, and if it ever gets to a gamestate where half of our townbloc is dead, and you were accepted into the townbloc, you need to not utterly fuck things up by voting someone in the townbloc.

I'd really like you to explain to me why Vax is town.

You've talked to me about why you think SC is town, which as far as I remember is based on Pine-Picks. I feel like you've mostly abandoned that thinking at least as far as nacho, so I'd like to hear where your head is at now. Especially if you can tell me what he's done, if anything, to solve the game, I'd love to hear that too.

So Vax and SC, explain those to me.

[Aeronaut]

Got some breakfast, pretty stoked.

Ooonnneeeee is the loneliest number that you'll ever dooooooooo
Twooooooo can be as bad as one, it's the loneliest number since the number oneee

Hey look, more words!

Oh, and:

Aeronaut, Aristophanes, Secret Agent Jin, BTD6_maker, drealmerz, Monokuma:

Right now, you should be focusing on two things:
-Convincing us why you are town. (Yes, this is normally inadvisable, but in this case I'm demanding it: show us why you're town.)
-Tell us which players you don't want to be written off as town and why. If they're named Nacho/Gin/Prism/Fate/mastina, expect to be ignored. Otherwise, I will in fact listen.
-Tell us which players, if not the names you said not to townread, you

would

be comfortable making a townbloc with.

Anything else you do, literally ANYTHING else you do, will be a waste of time and effort. Those three things? Those three things are what you need to do.

Why am I town?

Well for a lot of reasons, but namely, I'm trying to solve the game when a lot of the game isn't.

The easiest, and most effective way to read someone in any game, but especially more active games like this one where it's easier to hide, is simply to ask one question: Are they trying to solve the game? You can add onto this by saying, does anything they do add up? If someone is asking pointless questions, making pointless remarks, stating the obvious, or not following up on anything they do, that's a very good target for pressure, because that pressure will either get a town player to do stuff, or a scum player to crack.


I'll start by telling you exactly who in this game is trying to solve the game:

Prism, Mastina, Nacho, Aristophanes, Drealmerz,

to a degree, and

Gin

to a degree.

All of these players to me are trying to do something to further the gamestate; Everyone but Drealz is doing it decently effectively. Having said that, even though I'm 99% sure drealz is just wrong, he sure as hell is pushing for it and trying to get something out of it. I'm of the opinion that everyone on the Mastina wagon, and most of the people on Fate were/are scum who are just keeping their vote there and doing nothing with it; but when I look at Drealz, that's someone who thinks Mastina is scum. He's been pushing hard for 70 pages.

Curious what happens with him now that Mastina is confirmable, but I guess that's something to watch.

Gin is someone who I don't quite understand the motivations of, especially early game, and as of right now, I don't understand the reads of him as Hardtown (granted I havent gotten to the jam sesh yet). I think his play in the midgame up until when I'm posting this has been more improved in that I can understand why he's saying and doing certain things. Most importantly though, he's pushing his reads a lot harder / more effectively than was so earlier on. Looking back, I think the best example of this is in 1022 where he's pushing the Ari case, and while I didn't really agree with the case, I can see it making sense if you don't know Pisskop. More importantly though, he was pushing for it. Same thing with him bringing back his case on Jin more recently; I think it's easy for scum to sit back and let that happen on it's own naturally, whereas Gin was one who took the initiative and started it.

People I'm in the middle with;

Fate

Fate, I've talked about, but I guess I'll mention again. I don't see a lot of instances where Fate is solving the game. His last couple postings have been basically mirroring stuff I say and not much more, which is kind of worrisome to me, especially from someone of Fate's rep. Having said that, one or two posts of his give me reason to believe that there's a method to his madness, namely 945 where he sort of explains his push on nacho as being to sort him, which seems really believable to me given how baseless it initially seemed to me. 929 and 1341 also seem like a glimpses into what Fate's doing, or at least that he's doing

something,

and has, you know, made conclusions based on those things.

Then he makes posts like 1293 that completely come from left field. I don't know what to do with those posts, besides ask myself whether that's scum motivated, which I'm not really sure about right now if I'm being honest. It's certainly not enough to make me want to lynch him, and I do feel, to an extent, like fate is trying to figure some things out.


People who

aren't

solving the game:

Secret Agent Jin, BTD6_MAKER, Monokuma, SirCakez, Vaxkiller

Jin is pretty self explanatory; he's not here. Normally, I really would despise a lurker lynch, but since we're at that point in the deadline, I feel fine with it as it stands.

Sircakes is similar to a lot of the people below in that I feel like I'm reading the hollow shell of a player. I see questions asked, I see answers given, but none of it adds up into someone who's trying to solve something to me. He's another one of the people who are jumping from fate to mastina, with the added edition of either stifling the discussion, or just complaining about how the discussion sucks without contributing to it. I feel like I've watched him play a really good game before, and maybe it's been awhile, but I usually can talk to him and get him to listen to me. Here, he's just a mindless tunnel-drone that's tunnel-droning on either Mastina or Fate, whichever is easiest.

BTD6_Maker has contributed almost nothing; half of his game was spent arguing with Mastina over the validity of setup spec, and then scumread her for it. He didn't answer either time I asked him why he thought her spec was scum motivated, and has given minimal to no opinions on anything else in the game, besides Gin which was "his next scumread besides Mastina". Basically, him SRing mastina for setup spec is not getting him anywhere with reads, and he's not doing anything to help that.

Vax is the most apt example of what I'm talking about when I mention the scum on the Mastin or fate wagon. For example, his Fate push was another piece of garbage that just further convinces me that Fate is town. Here's what I'm talking about. It's mostly non AI stuff, or stuff that really just straight is objectively false about Fate's gameplay this game. That kind of case exists just to be a case, and not to get any real substance or reaction out of Fate. The same is true with his mastin case. There are no other cases he has; he's very, very clearly just flipping between Fate or Mastina, and not drawing any sort of conclusion out of it.

Mono, as I've said, is coasting. I've never seen Road Kamelot in anything, but I've seen Nahdia be this active engaged player and nah, this isn't that. All we get from that hydra is little commentaries and cryptic reads with nothing really backing anything up, more often than not it's as if they flipped a coin. The most notable thing they've done in the game is the short-lived god-awful fate push that was based either on one luke-warm interaction between fate and pine, and Fate not answering their question or something. Either way, the push was weak and pointless. When I asked them about it, they didn't answer, which means they either just aren't reading the thread very well, or don't care. If they did answer, we all know it'd probs just be some snarky mystical bear bullshit non-answer.

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

jam session, vote Jin

we found the scum group it's Aero, Jin, Mono

You're wrong about at least one of those people, and probably right about two of them.

Like.
Would Vaxkiller + Secret Agent Jin + Aeronaut be plausible?
It kinda feels right to me, but I'm not sure by how much.

Pretty unlikely. Aero is rising on my scum list and dreal is falling.

Um, but why though? What has dreal done that's changed your mind? All he did in that time was jump off of a confirmable townie slot onto Gin without a hint of reasoning, so from your perspective, that's NAI at best, scumposting at worst.

Today's lynch is Jin, we Vig Mono and cop goes after Aero.

Why would there be a cop if Mastina can confirm people?

WARNING QUOTE WALL:

Spoiler:

Yawn. Entertain me, mortals.

Heyo let's all come along,
Let us gather to hear this song,
It is a tale told far and wide,
About the scumfuck known as Pine.

He came to violate our dear camn,
To ruin her carefully concocted plan,
But here the forces of good will fight,
To destroy the evil known as Pine.

Heyo, let's all sing this song,
And in the process dump our thoughts,
To ask what we see and why,
To see through deceit and lies.

I say his ally is the yellow mouse,
His treachery shouldn't be allowed,
We should not allow him or his kind,
So full of their deceit and lies.

Heyo, let's keep going strong,
Don't be tempted to go wrong,
We're all here with a purpose to find,
Those that were corrupted by Pine.

Among their ranks is Aristophanes,
Who'd be a great lynch on this day,
I say that ending would be fine,
As it would so be damaging to Pine.

Heyo, let's lynch the Aeronaut,
Or maybe Agent Jin if not,
I say this with a sigh,
Don't be corrupted by their lies.

We can be a complacent lot,
So don't let our dear town rot,
Please I beg you to hear my cry,
You've fallen victim to deceit and lies.

This tale should not end here,
And that is my greatest fear,
That soon I will not be alive,
And you'll fall victim to the Pine.

*snaps*

And? I'm pretty sure that's what most of this game thinks, since it's you know, common sense.
Yep, I'm the only one who thinks we shouldn't let a game designed to fuck with us fuck with us, obviously. That's why nacho is the leading wagon, right?

Mafia exercise time.

This is a really fun one, I promise you.

Who here can spot the problematic nature of these two statements being placed back-to-back?

There's something very glaringly obvious in here. I could tell you at any time, but I want you to think for a sec, stretch your minds, and see if you're capable of figuring it out for yourselves.

I'm fairly certain the second half of this post is sarcastic. Like, I'd bet on that. Did you not catch that or did I miss something else in my reading of it?

I'm aware of Aeronaut being sarcastic. It's what the sarcasm is saying which contributes to the problem. The sarcasm, translated into non-sarcastic language, says, "Everyone knows this, and nobody's listened".

In the second bit? No, it translates to please stop pushing Nacho using setup spec reasoning, because it was just making you silly and tunnely. And look, it worked. You're not quibbling with us about setup spec like you're in a newbie game and actually starting to play the game instead.

The entirety of #710 is pretty manufactured-sounding. It's mostly some very weak reasons for SRing Fate and then him justifying the switch from drealz with more silly bullshit.

Does anyone actually believe that Fate is town? All he has been doing is spreading miss-information, providing horrible reasons for his voting 418 432 Hes not even reading the thread 350 604!

Asks questions, but refuses to answer small legitimate ones asked of him: 577 578 579 580. All this translates to scum, and hes having a blast doing it. I'm having fun with this game too, but I can guarantee the scum are having even more fun.

Here Vax is absolutely appalled that anyone could think fate is town, what are we all doing?! Most of Vax's reasoning here is that Fate isn't reading the thread, and is therefore scum, which is at most anti-town.

Wait is camn allowed to post freely too or is that just flavor <_<

Worried?

Here he is commenting on a fluff post as if it's AI

Pine's tellign the truth here


Whichis exactly what I said

Nacho first round scum pick

Fate second round town pick

???

profit

You modified this a bit, and your using fate to defend yourself?

Nacho was a first round pick, Fate. You were a second round pick.

Hate to burst your bubble.

I know I said this before but post 628 reeks of someone thinking of a great joke, but has to wait for the right moment, when the blurt it out all the sudden and it sounds super rehearsed, like they have been waiting to say it for soooo long. As soon as you rolled scum you thought of this right?


VOTE: Fate
I still want dreal dead, once fate flips maybe more people will believe my dreal case.

Also, him asserting that 628 or really any of Fate's postings this game is

too rehearsed

and that's why fate is a really, really, silly accusation to make about fate, who I'm 90% sure just types letters and lets it autocorrect into words into this thread. Like, there's probably a lot of reasons that fate could be scum in this game, but rehearsed posts is not one of them.

I also dislike how he immediately feels the need to justify it, and when you think about it, this justification makes no sense; fate flipping scum would not make drealz seem any more scum worthy anyone, especially since fate has minimal interaction with him besides calling him scum. If anything, a drealz wagon could get marginally more traction if fate flipped town, but even then , nah. So this justification is shit, and this case is shit.

This post is really interesting. Before I give my thoughts, Aero, can you tell me why fate is scum to you?

As far as I've seen, he's not trying to solve the game, he's more just waffling around. Recently he's had a few more solidified reads on people, but even then it's minimal and not what I really thought I'd see from one of the top three people that mastina thinks should have been first round picks.

Having said that, most of the others who followed me onto this wagon did it for bad to no reasoning, so it's making me second guess it entirely.

As for why my vote's stayed the same, it's because I haven't finished reading unfortunately.

I was really bothered that you jumped off fate. TO me it kinda looked like you voted fate (your scum partner) at the beginning and then got stuck there because a wagon formed pretty quickly.
When asked you seem wishy washy about it. You are like: yeah fate could be scummy, but I dont want to lynch. This just seems like protecting to me (See above and below)

No, I voted fate, caught up, hated the wagon on him, and then decided fuck that.

Can I ask why you chose those specific people to talk about those people respectively?

Looking for associations. Also some people have expressed thier thoughts on one or the other and I wanted to make sure were still true, or get reasons for them not being so.
Not everyone answered.

My issue with it is that it just seems like asking random people random questions; what did you get out of that?

Voting secret agent jin is about the least town thing you can do at the moment. WTF is anyone even voting him? You are just handing scum an easy lynch that they wont ever have to explain thier vote on because he is MIA for 3 days.

I mean, If you've got a better plan, share it. And looking back at what Jin has posted, do you see anything that makes him really pro-town? He posted waffly and wavy reads, and then left for a week, and didn't do anything since.

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

Simple. I get my best reads from exactly that.

Can you take me through that?

[Aeronaut]

Oh, Katsuki's here. Alright.

Well not alright if she's scum. In that case, not alright.

[Aeronaut]

The game might not be solved, but we laid out a path that leaves no option for scum to run from. That's what happened. They seriously can't hide.

If Mono and Aero/Jin both town, I'm highly suspect of Fate but we are at the point where we have the scummiest players, we lynch them and we get flips and night kills to analyze the game later on.

What about me jin or Mono being town makes Fate any more likely to be scum?

Thank god, can we go back to trying to lynch scum now?

If you're still talking about fate, do you have any other reasoning there besides the things in that original case? Because that case still doesn't make sense to me.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Just in case everyone is not aware.. L2 = L1 in this game (unless pine is already on a wagon.)

Ugh.

As much as I hate to admit it, this could potentially be a slight townslip.

[Aeronaut]

Oh, from a POE perspective, that makes sense.

P-edit: Ok, but you have to understand that I may be skeptical of you having solved the game on D1. I do really think you're probably right about Jin and Mono, and after that, I'd probably say BTD6 and SirCakez, and Vax as a third tier.

[Aeronaut]

The only person I'm absolutely certain about in this game is Mastina.

[Aeronaut]

lol

We all have those moments, don't worry

[Aeronaut]

Prism what's your read on mono again?

[Aeronaut]

Been moving back into school today and yesterday, will be here tonight to review what's been happening.

Yada yada excuses yada yada Lurking etc

[Aeronaut]

Oh hey, lynching scum, nice

Why not Jin/Katslot though?

[Aeronaut]

eh.... couldn't he do that as scum, though?

[Aeronaut]

hey thanks! I'm drunk! but thanks !

Happy birthdya to you all too!

[Aeronaut]

(dang i missed it it's past twleve but hey it's ok

[Aeronaut]

At some point I'm actually going to have to write up a case on Mastina, and I'm not looking forward to that day.

She's really, really not scum. And by really, I mean absolutely.

Ideally I'd have my vote on a secondary scumread here but it's honestly pretty hard to get one. I think Ari is a fine protest vote, just don't read too much into it.

I bet you voted for Ralph Nader, too.

(e.g. protest votes are silly and get you nowhere good)

I'm actually pretty unhappy with my play this game, in the sense that I'm being invisible

at best

even if I'm 100% right about everything, so I'm going to try being a little more proactive/forceful.

Can someone tell me why they actively townread mastina for something that isn't their claim?

The claim is all anyone should need, though. She's not going to claim something that confirmable as scum, and if she did, we can very easily find out if she was lying.

Last time I read Ari I jad a scumlean but apparently Gin came to a town conclusion after that

Problem is I have too many townreads if thats so and Monokuma is also town


VOTE: SirCakez

Gonna leave it to some flips and night play then, csnt break this one D1

KATSUKI WERE SWITCHING YOU SKIMMING FUCK

About damn time

VOTE: Sircakez

[Aeronaut]

BTD6 could be scum too, but I feel like there's no good case & SC is almost definitely scum so

could be < almost definitely

[Aeronaut]

The claim is all anyone should need, though. She's not going to claim something that confirmable as scum, and if she did, we can very easily find out if she was lying.

The chance of it being confirmed, even as town, is low. There is very little downside to claiming the variant she claimed as scum.

Redirections, roleblocks, or simply targeting scum all make the action fail, with us having no clue why it did. This makes it suboptimal to use N1 (See BTD6's policeman quote). Depending on how well partners fare later in the game, it may turn out to be advantageous to claim masons with one.

Ok; From my perspective, it doesn't make any sense that she could have made that up.

Either way, are you seriously saying that our most optimal choice today is to lynch the claimed Masonizer? You really don't think that there is a better option than that? Because that's an awful fucking option.

[Aeronaut]

You could say that about any role; you could say "we could lynch ____ bc it's likely this role won't ever get used bc it will be roleblocked" about literally anything.

[Aeronaut]

The fact is that you're not going to get a lynch off on mastina today, especially if you're not going to give any sort of case with it.

so I don't understand the point of any of your posting in the last few pages

[Aeronaut]

well I guess you just said it's because you're going crazy

but it's still really silly

[Aeronaut]

hey prism, what would you say you've figured out from your push on Mastina?

[Aeronaut]

yeah, that's a load of horse shit

VOTE: BTD6

[Aeronaut]

I kind of wish you didn't go and full claim but w/e @Gin

[Aeronaut]

gosh I came on here to procrastinate because I'm supposed to be writing a paper about socrates, and then I looked at your signature and got so upset

[Aeronaut]

I actually do like it i'm just over-historied and under paid

[Aeronaut]

bdt is very very lyched

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: BDT
VOTE: BDT
VOTE: BDT
VOTE: BDT
VOTE: BDT

[Aeronaut]

you voted him for that over the cc?

[Aeronaut]

you don't make any sense.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Kat

P-edit dreal you've got to be joking at this point

[Aeronaut]

I'd definitely say vax is a great place to lynch next.

[Aeronaut]

{TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Mastina}
{drealmerz7, Aristophanes}
{SirCakez, Fate, Prism}
------------------------------
{Monokuma, Vaxkiller}
{Katsuki}

[Aeronaut]

vax do you know what a Mason is?

Like I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually asking you.

[Aeronaut]

Eh, walk me through the scum motive behind Drealmerz, mastina. I don't really see that at all.

[Aeronaut]

Hmmm.

I do want to look back at at Ttyll because that's my one time playing with him as scum. IIRC though it was virtually the same as how he plays normally.

[Aeronaut]

Also, what's up with your prism read?

So like; I can't tell with prism right now. I

feel

like Prism is trying to solve things, but a lot of yesterday was a lot less of that, and a lot more of him being on none of the leading wagons at any point, and pushing people like you and Aristophanes who clearly weren't going to get traction at that point.

[Aeronaut]

And by yesterday I mean more towards the end of yesterday.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah fate is definitely town.

[Aeronaut]

Also, what's up with your prism read?

Prism is majorly town to me.
There's the chance Prism is scum, and a scumteam with Prism shot at Nacho (not knowing Nacho was hiding behind scum and thus going to die anyway) for the reasons Nacho outlined yesterday. But he himself said that was weird, and not very likely. Aside from that, there are spots in Prism's iso which read as ridiculously genuine to me and I just really really really feel like Prism is town.

:/

I guess I can take your word for it for now but I'm not feeling as good there as you are.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Gin

I'm going to go ahead and claim that my town role and alignment is 100% verifyable; I'm guessing scum know that at this point so I may as well say it.

Gin is gambitting here. I don't know why, but my personal theory is that Pine feels that he's conftown enough that he can do things like directly CC BTD6 when there's very little chance both of those roles are in the game, and an even smaller chance that they're on the same alignment.

But that almost seems too insane, I don't know. It's some stellar-ass play if that's what's going on.

[Aeronaut]

My role is a

Backup 1-shot Twilight Neighborizor.

[Aeronaut]

My role is a

Backup 1-shot Twilight Neighborizor.

Could be a scum backup.
Could be a fakeclaim.
Could be legit.

~However~
If it is legit, he wouldn't have had a PT to talk in until tonight when he neighbourized someone, being a backup and all.
So, Aero, you and Gin are clearly a 1V1.

Unless you have a different PT you'd like to enlighten us about.
(Now would be the time to do so)

I'm not in a PT, which makes it fairly obvious to me that Gin is gambiting here.

I honestly would have called him on the stuff from yesterday, but I mean at this point, he's very confident in himself, as you can see from literally any post Gin has made; Pine probably feels safe enough with the GIN-IS-TOWN stuff mastina spewed that he's going for me today.

That's the most sensical thing I can come up with.

[Aeronaut]

Also; I went through my ISO and found all of the times I've crumbed not that I

thought

Mastina was town, but that I was

absolutely certain

she was. I was certain because I've been her backup all fucking game

I figured there is a vig. in the game and I was aware of such when I did it

The problem is: I knew there was a vig in the game, and you knew there was a vig in the game.
What's to stop the scum, especially Pine, from knowing there is a vig in the game?
...Yeah. They already knew it wasn't real.

You want a

real

gambit?

Try this one on for size:

I have a role which can confirm me as town

.
This is a wifom-post: I may be telling the truth, or I could be fakeclaiming town, or I could be bullshitting scum.
Now THERE'S a gambit for ya. What am I accomplishing with this claim? Is it real, or is it fake?

This is FAR superior to a fake-dayvig claim.

I'd believe it, tbh.

The only person I'm absolutely certain about in this game is Mastina.

At some point I'm actually going to have to write up a case on Mastina, and I'm not looking forward to that day.

She's really, really not scum. And by really, I mean absolutely.

The claim is all anyone should need, though. She's not going to claim something that confirmable as scum, and if she did, we can very easily find out if she was lying.

The chance of it being confirmed, even as town, is low. There is very little downside to claiming the variant she claimed as scum.

Redirections, roleblocks, or simply targeting scum all make the action fail, with us having no clue why it did. This makes it suboptimal to use N1 (See BTD6's policeman quote). Depending on how well partners fare later in the game, it may turn out to be advantageous to claim masons with one.

Ok; From my perspective, it doesn't make any sense that she could have made that up.

Either way, are you seriously saying that our most optimal choice today is to lynch the claimed Masonizer? You really don't think that there is a better option than that? Because that's an awful fucking option.

[Aeronaut]

Also, I literally based my entire game off of her being town, ESPECIALLY after she felt the need to claim at D3. I spent most of D1 pushing the people who were voting Mastina for bad reasons, because her being town was the best basis I could work with.

[Aeronaut]

it never occurred to you that it's possible to be a backup of a scum role?

Why would a masonizer be a scum role?

[Aeronaut]

Camn: Was Mastina a neighborizor or a Masonizor?

[Aeronaut]

Then why would the masonizer not cc her?

[Aeronaut]

Hold on, something is seriously off

[Aeronaut]

Ari cmon

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, I'm a backup 1-shot masonizer.

There's another one in the game; I guess they can probably use that to get #3 after gin is gone tomorrow?

[Aeronaut]

Then why would the masonizer not cc her?

You claimed Neighbourizer though, so, not Masonizer! XD

Give up the jig!
We've got you!

Yeah, and

I'm telling you that they're both in the game.

[Aeronaut]

Either that or camn is trolling me and i hate them </3

[Aeronaut]

and by trolling me I mean gave me a backup role to nothing

that would be really, really sad.

[Aeronaut]

W/e i'm getting lynched today clearly.

If there's really a live masonizer in the game still, then we've got the win anyway.

[Aeronaut]

I'M SO GOOD AT MAFIA

VOTE: AERO

[Aeronaut]

A CURSE ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES!

[Aeronaut]

(Good luck last four scumbuddies, you got dis!)

[Aeronaut]

i think Pine is scum also

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Aeronaut

(Thanks Aero bro)

:scumposting:

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

see, he knows i'm town.

This guy gets it!

[Aeronaut]

Oh boy

Two scum members deserve this win and neither are me! But awesome and interesting game regardless, fun playing with everyone!

[Aeronaut]

ppls here fans of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, need to sign up for the micro!!!!!!

[Aeronaut]

Final Summary, etc!

For your enjoyment:
Scumtopic- (will open if its OK)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=69772
Mastina's Hood:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70136
Prism's Hood (gods if only someone had been listening in!):
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70147
Draft Thread
- me and Pine got too real here, so we are gonna keep it closed.

Spoiler: Night Actions:

Night 1

TheRealGin-N-Tonic targeted Aeronaut. (This is a Recon-Targeting)
mastina targeted TheRealGin-N-Tonic in twilight to setup a 'Hood.
Monokuma gave Watch to SirCakez
SirCakez killed Nachomamma8 (no effect)
Aeronaut targeted mastina (JK- no effect)
Nachomamma8 hid behind Katsuki and died.

Night 2

TheRealGin-N-Tonic targeted Aeronaut and got results
Prism targeted Fate in twilight and opened a 'Hood
Monokuma gave BPV to Gin
SirCakez watched Gin
Aeronaut killed Mastina (Strongarm-Kill)

Night 3

Monokuma gave Tracker to SirCakez
SirCakez killed Monokuma

Night 4

SirCakez Targeted TheRealGin-N-Tonic, but BPV

Night 5

SirCakez killed Prism

-----------------------

Spoiler: my notes

So, Of course- this was a troll game, and advertised as suchh, so screw the haters!
But I always say- any game that makes it to Lylo with just one scum left is balanced. QED.

Anyway- my thoughts were this:
1. I consider 2x 1-shot abilities to be about the same as a single unlimited, maybe weaker.
Why? They are stronger cuz it takes two kills to nullify, but weaker because its only 2-shot.
Also, weaker cuz counterclaim comfusion, like here.. but stronger cuz confirmation with flip.

Given that, we had
Inventor
Eavesdropper
Hider
Vengeful
Neighborizor.

For me, the Neighborizor is not a powerful role, it can go either way, and it was in place to offer false guilties to the eavesdropper.
The Eavesdropper could be countered by PLAY alone.. so it's scum-counter was the ROLECOP. Once scum KNOWS it exists.. they can play around it. They didn't do so here.. but that is not a balance issue.
Inventor is also a weak role, because it can go like it did here.. with abilities to scum. No real counter needed, although the Strongarm Kill counters the BPV.

2. I explicitly stated that I balanced AGAINST the scum-abilities.. not the other way around, as is typical. Which is why I think inclusion of a Hider/Tracker/Watcher set was fair. The combination is no more powerful than a single sane unlimited cop, IMO..
THough again.. how it played out, none of those were significant.. other than Nacho.
There was some debate about resolution of nacho's death.. but I think it is the same no matter how I slice it.
Either the hiding kills him.. or he DOESN'T HIDE, right? and he is killed by the nightkill. . .and same result.
I guess he could successfully hide..and avoid the kill, and NOT reflexively die.. I will think about that in the future.. but I think it is TOO non-normal. The Godfather role is already non-normal.. but it is well-known enough that it makes sense.. to the extent that Cop-Innocents are always questioned. I'm not sure it is the same with Hider-Innocents.. so I think that would be TOO MUCH, unless the Hider Role PM had some statement about this, which mine did not!

Lastly- My bad with Jin/ Gin.
JIN was in Hunger Games.. whereas GIN was in under an alt or something... so he was not really on my radar as a nickname. So when Pine said "Gin, I scanned the playerlist and saw Jin... and
Luckily Katsuki made good on that.

ALso--

SORRY for being such a shitty mod so many times.
Im traveling.. I didnt expect this game to open so quickly...but it is what it is.

I screwed up JIN/GIN.
I screwed up an entire day of votecounts. which would have seen Fate dead earlier.. and probably a town win.
I misflipped Mastina..

/Sigh.
I will improve.

I thought you were great!

I don't really think I have too many comments on the game itself.

Ari, Gin, mastina, Nacho all played extremely well. Katsuki did the best with what they had.

Aero played really well despite me thinking they were PoE mafia most of Day 1, to the extent that I wanted to keep them around if only because of A+ content.

Didn't you say you townread me most of the game though?

Specifically @Aero all of your interactions with me Day 1 pointed to you being mafia, in that your confusion but lack of stances/further inquiry into my strange play I thought was pretty bad. Your reads list+stance with the block read like you knew that town had a solid bloc and felt like your best chance was just rolling with it-and this turned out to be exactly the case.

I mean, I asked the scumteam if they wanted me to lynch you, and they were eh about it, so that's probably why I didn't really commit to it. Most of your stuff on day 1 wasn't doing a whole lot to solve much from my persepctive, and even if it was I probably could paint it that way

[Aeronaut]

Those are hemlock scales.

Yes, I know the difference between pine and hemlock at a glance.

Oh, right, commentary on scum deaths.

Katsuki did the best he could with what he was handed. Honestly, surviving D1 was an accomplishment after replacing that slot. Boffo.

Aeronaut got caught out on a guilty. Guilties are guilties, not much you can do about them. He threw off a respectable amount of WIFOM before going down. Nicely played.

Well, if I had looked more town, then I probably wouldn't have been caught so red handed! Also, I think my actual big blunder there was just not realizing Gin's PR and coming in and saying "Hey so who should we murder!!"

Aeronaut got caught out on a guilty.

Didn't help that he botched his fakeclaim.
I did so much love watching that.
And was laughing oh so hardcore, going, "YES! YES! IT WORKED! ONE OF MY PLANS ACTUALLY FUCKING WORKED!!!"
It was a glorious day.
A beautiful, bloodthirsty day, full of righteousness and justice.

Alas.

Yeah, you conned me good! Like, I thought I was so smart and manipulative strewing those backup crumbs out the whole game, but you fakeclaiming that was fantastic. Like, fantastic.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, I had a really fun time playing this game, it's probably up there as one of my all time favorites. I'd like to think I may have survived longer had gin not gotten that guilty, but c'est la vie. Either way, this game was full of characters and was just a blast.

[Aeronaut]

We're just THAT good! obv