Micro 662: ArcAngel's Twin Trap Mafia (Ended)

[BTD6_maker]

Hi.

I've skimmed through most of it and the first thing I will look at is the interaction between MisaTange and Sleepless Assassin.

[BTD6_maker]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

>throwing shade
>admitted inthread that I reworded the post weirdly, allowing for misunderstandings which can happen. in a text-based game
>uh

Admitting things doesn't make them town.

But does it make them scum?

It doesn't, but I've played a lot of mafia and her posts are giving me a lot of gut scum vibes.

Let me try to verbalize it.

Interesting exchange

This is a very empty post, but implies suspicion on at least one, if not both, players. Yet the attack is soft enough that it's easy to either back off or choose a side later. This can mean either "both players are scummy", "one of these players is scummy", or "this may be nothing, but I'm watching it". It's just too easy to decide later what you meant and go with the flow or go with what will seem less scummy. A town player is more likely to...commit may be the wrong word, but at least tell us what they are thinking at that moment. For example, why is it interesting? What does it mean that it's interesting? I get that it's early and people will say this is RVS and doesn't mean anything, but misa saw enough to point it out, so I'd like to know why.

I'm actually reminded of the strategy that scum sometimes use where they vote their scumpartner as a means of distancing

Now we get the "why" and it wouldn't be so scummy on it's own, as wrong as it may be. There were no signs of distancing and it's way too early to expect much, if any, distancing anyway. But the real question is whether misa believes there was distancing, and again, the "why" factor is missing. We don't see why misa sees distancing rather than typical early game banter or even genuine suspicion. There's no effort to determine what is going on. Just more weak implied suspicion for no apparent reason.

I mean.It may mean something but it may mean not; I recognize that LUV's/mine's vote can equally be, uhh, that.

And now that she's been called out, she starts to back off, like I mentioned above. She's now in the mindset of defending herself and forgets all about her attack, if it even was one. A town player would probably still wonder if there is something there as far as the players she thought were distancing where instead of suddenly dropping it when it looks bad on her.

okay thenit's a small, slightly unreliable scumtellthis scumtell kind of depends on yours/tb's flip and the reason why i'm not pursuing it any further (hence my RvS vote) is that i dont like scumhunting before flips, on page frickin one

Then there's the excuse that it was rvs. No. You had a game related reason for making the vote. It may have been weak, but it wasn't rvs. But she chooses to discredit herself completely rather than describe more about what she saw that may have come from scum.

I  just realized people from here scumread uncertainty

whelp

First of all, no, it's not the uncertainty. It's the lack of anything backing suspicion that makes it feel more like an attempt to make people seem scummy than genuine suspicion. Second of all, this shows that defensive mentality again. It's "how do I seem to everyone else?", not "who is scum?".

Also notice, that misa's posts have been entirely defensive since she was questioned about her distancing comment. Not one post after that is scumhunting. It's just her trying to explain herself, which yes I understand she needs to do, but it's not a substitute for scumhunting at the same time

The real question is whether Misa's alleged shade is scummy. From the RVS, I am not sure about the "Interesting exchange" comment. It seems rather atypical of what someone would say in RVS, and it can indeed be used by scum to cast shade, but I am not fully convinced that this is truly scummy.

Again, Misa backtracks, but this could simply be coming from Town who realises that they phrased a post badly, although this could also come from scum.

I am reading the interaction in more detail, although I am leaning very slightly towards Misa being scummy here.

[BTD6_maker]

Milkshake and Kop next. I had a look at it and I personally think that out of the two Kop looks worse, but I will go into it in more detail. Kop and Misa are currently null-weak scum.

[BTD6_maker]

I am analysing the Arnold wagon now. I will give my thoughts in a moment.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Arnold

I haven't seen anything resembling productivity from this guy, and singleminded focus on a nearly-absent player without other scumhunting strikes me as suspicious.

I ISO'd Pine, and found nothing at all on Arnold before this, apart from a single RVS vote, and he also had other strong reads. This makes me think that this is mildly opportunistic. However, I am wondering how scummy this actually is, given that this looks like the only vote on Arnold at the time. I am inclined to think an opportunistic scum would be more likely to vote opportunistically on a wagon rather than try to start it as there is no guarantee the wagon will form and it draws attention. Hence I would say this is a mild Townish opportunism.

[BTD6_maker]

This game has been very inactive today.

Anyway, I found that the Arnold wagon was mostly a deadline lynch wagon. Now it looks like it is very easy for scum to simply hop on the wagon as they can look like a Townie trying to avoid No Lynch while simultaneously forcing a mislynch so chances are scum are definitely on that wagon.

Scum may not want to hammer as it draws attention to themselves, though, and it looks as though they want to put the wagon on L-1 and then simply wait for a Townie to hammer. Currently MisaTange looks worst from this wagon, followed by Spade Ace.

For now, this will do.

VOTE: MisaTange

[BTD6_maker]

This sums you up.

Anyway, I would rather not join the Spade Ace wagon, as both Spade Ace and Vedith are nullish.

[BTD6_maker]

I am really not liking Kain Tepes. His posts are full of shouting. It looks like that is trying to give an impression of emphasis and importance when really behind the caps lock there is very little reasoning. I cannot see much in the way of reasons he put forward for pushing Pine, although he repeatedly shouts phrases such as "VOTE PINE.................. he is EVIL BEING...............!!!". This does not add any weight whatsoever to any case he puts forward.

That said, I am struggling to tell whether this is actually AI. It appears his normal posting style is to post with lots of shouting and weak reasoning. It is very likely that this is just his playstyle, in which case, while his playstyle is not conducive to a Town win, it doesn't make him automatically scum.

Kain, please try to avoid shouting so much for fake emphasis and instead use real emphasis by actually giving reasoning and thoughts behind your pushes.

[BTD6_maker]

By the way, I forgot to mention this.

Mod, I will be V/LA from the 26th December to the 5th January. I will still try to occasionally post though.

[BTD6_maker]

@BTD i don't agree with your reason for voting misa. Misa vote was the 'hammer' based on the rules of the game. Based on your reasoning am the one you should be voting against as mine was the vote before the hammer. But i gave my reasons for voting. I had no way of knowing misa and milkshake would join the wagon just few hours before deadline. If i was scum wouldn't it have been easier to join the kop wagon?

You had no way of knowing Misa and Milkshake would contribute, but Misa knew it would be a likely deadline lynch and voted. Thus, while you look bad (a deadline lynch is likely and you may have other reasons for not joining Kop) I find Misa worse. Also, Misa brought the wagon to L-1, not hammer. I don't really understand what you are trying to say in this post. Can you please clarify?

[BTD6_maker]

OK. I may have misunderstood the deadline lynch rules. Anyway, this actually makes you the worst on that wagon. (Again, you could have had other reasons for not wanting Kop's lynch such as Kop being scum or you wanting to be less suspicious). You are still weak-moderate scum, but from the wagon you are worse than Misa.

VOTE: Spade Ace

[BTD6_maker]

I am a Vanilla Townie.

Spade Ace, pointing it out doesn't make you more Town. At best, it is NAI. It is easily possible for scum to point it out and then mention that scum would not point it out.

[BTD6_maker]

I am a Vanilla Townie.

Spade Ace, pointing it out doesn't make you more Town. At best, it is NAI. It is easily possible for scum to point it out and then mention that scum would not point it out.

[BTD6_maker]

No. A massclaim is useless tomorrow. Pine is the Watcher and everyone else is a VT.

KainTepes probably eats KainTapas.

Pine, why try to beat up KainTepes with large words? You should eschew obfuscation and espouse elucidation.

[BTD6_maker]

My Internet is too bad to post. I may be able to be more active on the 5th.

[BTD6_maker]

It looks like a wagon formed on me while I was at V/LA.

Firstly, KainTepes just voted me for a comment I made about not needing a massclaim. I pointed out the obvious to Town, namely that no massclaim was needed, yet KainTepes is trying to use that to make me sound suspicious.

The Alisae vote was due to an apparent state of apathy. Likewise, the majority of the push on me has been that I am lurking. I am not lurking. When my Internet is this bad and I have little time to post, all I have time for is to let you know about my inactivity. Now I am back and can be more active. Being busy and on V/LA with very bad internet in Real Life is not scummy. It's NAI.

Currently KainTepes looks worse. I can see how Alisae might misinterpret my complete lack of activity as lurking, but KainTepes does not have anything resembling a case on me, just repetitions of "BTD6 IS SCUM" which, without reasoning, means nothing.

[BTD6_maker]

I forgot to do this in my last post.

VOTE: Kain Tepes

[BTD6_maker]

It tells me that Kain prob isn't scum.
it's also important to leave that voting info here in case this doesn't end the game
and I get NKed.
VOTE: BTD

Do you have any reasoning? There is next to no reasoning for my wagon at all. This is partly why I scumread Kain as he refuses to give reasons even when pressured.

By the way, my Milkshake read is weak Town. I read up on Milkshake and didn't find much that was particularly scummy, compared to Alisae (weak scum) and KainTepes (moderate scum).

[BTD6_maker]

REASONS FOR BTD ARE VERY SIMPLE,, he is LURKER,, i saw him post in other threads but not this one,, he was NON COMMITTAL to reads until i voted him then suddenly he OMGUS,, Very SUPSICIOUS,,, BTD is not usually like this from what i seen

Firstly, I am not a lurker. The point you are making about my alleged "lurking" is nearly identical to the example on this wiki page. I am not generally non-committal, just that my reads early in the game are weak and get stronger as the game progresses. Lastly, I post in different threads at different times. (Also, during my V/LA, the extent of my posting in all threads, including this one, was notifying people of my V/LA.) However, given your over-emphasis and general use of argumentum ad nauseam, I can say that KainTepes is usually like this from what I [have] seen.

If you are Town, you are bad Town. If you are scum, you are caught scum.