Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

Response in line

Your entire bit of logic assumes that Maxous was the only scum before his death. We still have very little basis to assume this is true.

No it doesn't. It proves I cannot have changed with SirCakez. It also assumes you are 3P SK

It also assumes that if you're scum, you would've known that Maxous would've changed the game state, which is not necessarily true.

If I was scum preMaxous then any buddies I had would have lynched me for cred a long time ago. Furthermore if I had a known liar in a bastard game and was scum I would have ran to my buddies in a hood and said : "Maxous is conf scum let's lynch it" and there is no way the Maxous lynch drags out that long. Ergo I would have to be scum by myself preMaxous flip and do all the killing. Except Creature didn't kill Shiro when if I was Godfather by myself then Shiro would be too much a threat to leave alive. There is literally no way I am scum.

I would like to point out that you spent a majority of your time in the game insisting that pushing Maxous to a lynch makes you town,

despite the fact that there is no evidence that he was part of a scumteam that knew about his role.

It still does. It demonstrates I was gamesolving instead of apathy lynching. Yes I was wrong on Cakez but I have been trying. If we lynch someone for being wrong I would be the only person left being the least wrong and Town wins.

You have been trying to brute force a confirmed gamestate when there has been very little to no precedence for clears having any impact on the game. This shows you are trying to manipulate the gamestate.
You've spent the entire game trying to brute force your will and shut down anyone who tried to defy you... at least until the last day. When your scumbuddy was being run up and you were losing influence, you threw up your hands and tried to WIFOM.

I would also like to point out a second time that if you are truly a bulletproof, it's most likely that you were put there as a scum BP to weaken my role, which is designed to kill people. This makes far more sense than your bulletproof being designed to have a town role that can counteract my kill, as that has far less of an impact over the role itself.

This is false. Miller is put in place to stop Narna. If anything I am a town counterpart as there seems to be one fake guilty except you who claimed guilty to everything. Rather convenient.

Giovanni has yet to be confirmed to have his results be accurate, yet the closest we have is that he didn't die when following a third party. The fact that he got an "investigative" result means jack shit.

If I am third party I am not Town. Ergo Gio visited me and I am Town. I confirm Nahdia and I confirm JaeReed.

The only way I am scum is if Gio is lying or I am godfather which can't be right see above

[MathBlade]

I would also like to point out that callforjudgment was very strongly implying two things last night before his death:

1. He was hard town reading me for my play yesterday
2. He was strongly believing that SirCakez was scum since the beginning of the game.

It was also looking pretty likely that he would've ended up pushing Mathblade today, which means that there are at least three people that would've been likely to push that slot (being him, me, and Almost50). I'd be very interested in knowing who you think killed CFJ and why, because having a slot that was gaining as much influence as he has while still having me in his blind spot would've been a very interesting choice of a kill for me.

You has wine. I has facts. Town doesn't let Town consume wine to mislynch mechanically confirmed town before Gio. If you think I am scum the proper thing is Gio first.

[MathBlade]

I has fever more nap for me

[Skullduggery]

Day 8, Vote Count #3

Current Vote Count:

(0)

Giovanni il Pellegrino

(2)

MathBlade -- Almost50, Ankamius

(0)

PeregrineV

(0)

Nahdia

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

BigYoshiFan

(1)

Almost50 -- MathBlade

(0)

JaeReed

Not Voting:

Giovanni il Pellegrino, PeregrineV, Nahdia, BigYoshiFan, JaeReed

With 8 votes available, it takes 5 votes to hammer.

BigYoshiFan is V/LA until 1/12.

Day 8 Will End on Saturday, January 21st, at 9 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-21 21:00:00)

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Mathblade
VOTE: Giovanni il Pellogrino

Just voting everyone in turn to prove this bullshit claim wrong. Consider my vote still on Mathblade.

[Ankamius]

Your entire bit of logic assumes that Maxous was the only scum before his death. We still have very little basis to assume this is true.

No it doesn't. It proves I cannot have changed with SirCakez. It also assumes you are 3P SK

You literally tried to prove that you are not a godfather because that would mean you were godfather since the beginning of the game, which is not proof of anything since this cannot be corroborated by anyone.

It also assumes that if you're scum, you would've known that Maxous would've changed the game state, which is not necessarily true.

If I was scum preMaxous then any buddies I had would have lynched me for cred a long time ago. Furthermore if I had a known liar in a bastard game and was scum I would have ran to my buddies in a hood and said : "Maxous is conf scum let's lynch it" and there is no way the Maxous lynch drags out that long. Ergo I would have to be scum by myself preMaxous flip and do all the killing. Except Creature didn't kill Shiro when if I was Godfather by myself then Shiro would be too much a threat to leave alive. There is literally no way I am scum.

Holy shit, you say that you're operating on logic and I'm operating on WIFOM and then say this?

There's no evidence to show that godfather would not have some type of immunity to a rolecop if it would have immunity to a weak follower. That's an assumption that you simply cannot make.

I would like to point out that you spent a majority of your time in the game insisting that pushing Maxous to a lynch makes you town,

despite the fact that there is no evidence that he was part of a scumteam that knew about his role.

It still does. It demonstrates I was gamesolving instead of apathy lynching. Yes I was wrong on Cakez but I have been trying. If we lynch someone for being wrong I would be the only person left being the least wrong and Town wins.

This doesn't mean town at all. Scum can catch third party just as easily as town can. Scum can put effort into a game. Your sentence about people being wrong means nothing.

You have been trying to brute force a confirmed gamestate when there has been very little to no precedence for clears having any impact on the game. This shows you are trying to manipulate the gamestate.
You've spent the entire game trying to brute force your will and shut down anyone who tried to defy you... at least until the last day. When your scumbuddy was being run up and you were losing influence, you threw up your hands and tried to WIFOM.

I would also like to point out a second time that if you are truly a bulletproof, it's most likely that you were put there as a scum BP to weaken my role, which is designed to kill people. This makes far more sense than your bulletproof being designed to have a town role that can counteract my kill, as that has far less of an impact over the role itself.

This is false. Miller is put in place to stop Narna. If anything I am a town counterpart as there seems to be one fake guilty except you who claimed guilty to everything. Rather convenient.

You know enough about my role to be able to figure out that the miller modifiers is very likely to either be a red herring or to make it so this dichotomy is not easily solved. The fact is, I am

proven

to have the ability to kill. You can look back at the Shiro vs Narna debate that happened, but I thought I made it very damn clear I thought that Narna's check was bullshit even before Shiro claimed what his miller was, which is evidence towards me knowing what version of miller is used in this game before it was public information.

You're also conveniently forgetting that I have two other negative modifiers across my various states, as well as a fourth that only appears in my final state. Thanks for trying to manipulate my role into looking bad for your own ends, though.

Giovanni has yet to be confirmed to have his results be accurate, yet the closest we have is that he didn't die when following a third party. The fact that he got an "investigative" result means jack shit.

If I am third party I am not Town. Ergo Gio visited me and I am Town. I confirm Nahdia and I confirm JaeReed.

The only way I am scum is if Gio is lying or I am godfather which can't be right see above[/quote]

Already proven wrong.

There is no precedent for results to be conclusive.
Giovanni's role and alignment are not fully confirmed, so we cannot hold his results as fact.
You are trying to manipulate the information to appear confirmed town.

Ergo, you are scum by play. Giovanni's result means little to nothing. Your results on Jaereed and Nahdia mean little to nothing. None if it confirms you as town, yet you are acting like it's already been confirmed. This is the type of play I see scum do when they play by these types of methods.

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Almost50

[MathBlade]

So many words. So little reasons.

All you say is "gut". My "gut" says you are scum.

Scum by play is little more than vapors. What are the facts?

[MathBlade]

Almost50 and you need rope. So freaking bad.

[Ankamius]

Because your play has been a paragon of excellence, right? Get over yourself.

[Ankamius]

Keep ignoring facts that are inconvenient to you and calling everyone's play that you don't agree with bad. I'll keep tunneling on the facts you're ignoring.

[JaeReed]

New edit: I will hold my vote for a little time while I go through CFJ's ISO to try and figure why he was killed over -say- JR (who is CONFIRMED, y'know)

I asked Nahdia to jk me last night.

CFJ was good at rallying town, which is my guess for why he was killed, but i want to go through the neighbourhood from last night's stuff because I did give him meta on Math that gives leeway to Math!town and I can't remember precisely what he said about it.

[JaeReed]

I get the strong feeling that someone has overclaimed this game (i.e. claimed a stronger role than they actually have); such a player is highly likely to be scum.

That was Mathblade claiming BP to claim they were shot at thus earning town credit. Such claim (being shot at) was nullified by Yoshi's claim.

He was talking about Giovanni there I believe.

[JaeReed]

Eight ergo Nahdia JaeReed and I are Town block.

I actually don't trust either of you enough to want to townblock with you.

[JaeReed]

I confirm Nahdia and I confirm JaeReed.

How is Nahdia confirmed?

How is Nahdia's role being confirmed a reason that Nahdia is town?

[MathBlade]

Explain how Nahdia is seen visiting you and performs the kill. If they were ninja they wouldn't be seen doing anything.
If they were scum they'd have to be scum with you. And you are a VT per my PM from Skull...Sooooo...Nahdia didn't kill you.

This means they cannot be a killer since the start of the game if there is an SK which makes more sense based on this scenario.
So Nahdia is nigh on close to conf town.

[JaeReed]

Er... Walk me through how Nahdia can't be one of Gaster's followers? Or how they're scum with me when you have it CONFIRMED to you that I am a VT?

[JaeReed]

Like, why do you not find it plausible that Nahdia can jailkeep yet still be scum?

[MathBlade]

Er... Walk me through how Nahdia can't be one of Gaster's followers? Or how they're scum with me when you have it CONFIRMED to you that I am a VT?

The last question was why it was ridiculous Nahdia was scum. I don't believe that ergo not answering that. Because it's dumb.

Nahdia if she was one of Gaster's followers isn't the person killing people at night more than likely. Notice how Gaster's followers flipped a different color than Gaster. That means it is highly likely that Nahdia is not a killer since Maxous likely wasn't one. Nahdia MIGHT be Gaster's follower but it is almost a certainty that she is not the person who killed CFJ. Which means that the killer is narrowed down.

We need to find the person killing townies repeatedly. We originally estimated 2 or 3 people if Maxous did anything were alignment swapped. So we are likely one or two more reds and a lone killer. This means three scum likely remain who are not you and not me, and IMHO not Nahdia.

[Ankamius]

Wasn't it you that initially suggested that the scum team might have been the ones culted?

[MathBlade]

Wasn't it you that initially suggested that the scum team might have been the ones culted?

I suggested a lot of things when I was trying to figure out what happened. However that theory becomes much less likely as townies were lynched repeatedly. If a scum team existed and had a culted member I think people would have had major changes in reads and a scum team lynch come up. The most likely scenario is a lone killer.

[JaeReed]

But why would a Nahdia red flip make me scum too? I'm not following that in the slightest.

Why is it not plausible to you that the killings are coming from the followers and Maxous had the kill prior as an SK/Cult Creator upon death type role, which got passed down to his faction?

I don't like that you're SK hunting over scum hunting. I believe the killings are coming from the scum faction, which we now have evidence actually exists and that their roles are irrelevant.

[Ankamius]

I also thought of a possibility since the fact that there is a specific person that supposedly brings dead players to wherever the dead people go:

It might be possible that Maxous is still in the game, just not publicly.

[Ankamius]

Wasn't it you that initially suggested that the scum team might have been the ones culted?

I suggested a lot of things when I was trying to figure out what happened. However that theory becomes much less likely as townies were lynched repeatedly. If a scum team existed and had a culted member I think people would have had major changes in reads and a scum team lynch come up. The most likely scenario is a lone killer.

What?

I'm suggesting that the scumteam itself is the cult.

[MathBlade]

But why would a Nahdia red flip make me scum too? I'm not following that in the slightest.

Why is it not plausible to you that the killings are coming from the followers and Maxous had the kill prior as an SK/Cult Creator upon death type role, which got passed down to his faction?

I don't like that you're SK hunting over scum hunting. I believe the killings are coming from the scum faction, which we now have evidence actually exists and that their roles are irrelevant.

Because I checked you as VT post Maxous. If you were not a VT you wouldn't have given me a VT check. So Nahdia and you scum is ridiculous.

If the second case was true then there were 5 days of which would in essence be unimpeded recruitment. Only one of Gaster's followers has flipped. Meaning 4 would remain. If 4 would remain then SirCakez wouldn't have had any pressure at all and I would have been mislynched. The fact that SirCakez was lynched at all implies that the Gaster's followers are smaller in number.

I am scum hunting and SK hunting. We don't have proof of a "scum" in a traditional sense. We have a group of people no longer aligned with town post Maxous flip that may or may not have a kill.

Furthermore I don't see Maxous if he was the only scum in the entire game outright lying during the claiming period should that be the case. Someone else had to be doing the killing besides Maxous.