Micro 669 - Procrastination Mafia - At The End...(GAME OVER)

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: Bullet

I mean, he is bullet and lynchproof so this shouldnt count, right? Right? Wait it counts? Well i got better things to do, i cant be bothered to unvote....too many characters to type.

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zack

Thats where my vote is going, he is underachieving.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Three RVS votes on Zach? I dont want to be a part of that, im too lazy to be a part of a wagon.

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

There is nothing wrong with a three vote wagon, im just cant be bothered to join a wagon.

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
VOTE: Secret Angent Jin

I think his roleplaying is overdone

My role-playing seems overdone and that is scummy enough to vote me? I am just curious how my roleplaying is AI, arent we suppose to procrastinate in this game and do lazy things? Its really just joking around with the flavor of the game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

If you feel the RPing us too much then i will stop, my bad, i didnt think it would bother anyone.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I don't think it is the RP that is bothering, I think it's just that it seems forced and overdone and that is not ever good because 1 it skews an ability to read you (and so just comes off scummy)

it's a nuanced thing, RPing

You are correct, i see where you are coming from with the skewed read thing. I was planning on only doing this until things moved out of the silly starting on the game phase and so now i am switching to actual posting.

My first vote was just pure RVS, my second was because i had to take the opportunity to make a pun, and my unvote is because Zach was at three votes and it takes 5 to lynch iirc and i didnt want to be on a wagon that was voted up for no reason.

[Secret Agent Jin]

the hardest adjustment I have here is 2 day Nights - I usually like having 4-5 days to re-read the thread and digest things and reflect on it all

the game I modded had 5-7 day Nights simply because of the amount of NAs and flavor associated

scums gotta have time to use NC

You think you have a hard time adjusting to MS? My HS runs mafia games that have. 72 hour Day Phases and 24 hour nights. Another site i play on have 48 hour days and 12 hour night phases.

[Secret Agent Jin]

the hardest adjustment I have here is 2 day Nights - I usually like having 4-5 days to re-read the thread and digest things and reflect on it all

the game I modded had 5-7 day Nights simply because of the amount of NAs and flavor associated

scums gotta have time to use NC

You think you have a hard time adjusting to MS? My HS runs mafia games that have. 72 hour Day Phases and 24 hour nights. Another site i play on have 48 hour days and 12 hour night phases.

yep I understand there's a good number of those, that sort of play doesn't appeal at all, nor is it conducive to what I can do

do you just like the variety MS provides?

I wanted something as close as I could get to my HS pace wise but some larger games and bigger variety of player exposure - MS seemed appealing especially with the large theme games so I am testing the waters here

I enjoy Great/Greater Idea Mafia type games but cant find them here much. I like the large choice of different game types here though.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I'd like people to give their opinions on the back-and-forth between me and dreamer

-Inf

Having painfully read through the back and forth between you two i think you are town based on the fact that through all of that arguing you still townread Dreal when, as scum, you could have easily made a case of his posts and turned it into a wagon. I dont know if i see eye to eye with you on the town!dreal read though. He is either scum or a townie that is sure he has scum in his sights.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I would vote Zach but all i am seeing from him is massive amounts of lurking and lurking could come from both sides. If anyone has a reason for voting Zach outside of lurking then i will vote him.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Yeah, i want to know also, why the blank vote culted?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Get your vote off me mate, do you want me to OMGUS vote you?

I have been reading and personally i dont see scum!Gamma even though i would love to at this point. Personally i don't see scum anyone but i have a notoriously horrible ability to read anyone. I love to play these games but i really need to build a better sense of reading people.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Get your vote off me mate, do you want me to OMGUS vote you?

I have been reading and personally i dont see scum!Gamma even though i would love to at this point. Personally i don't see scum anyone but i have a notoriously horrible ability to read anyone. I love to play these games but i really need to build a better sense of reading people.

Any solid townreads?

Well we can assume i townread myself if that counts, i also solidly townread Ari and culted as she does seem to be genuine.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@culted I will take my one question to ask about the read on myself. It seems a few people scumread me but they just keep saying "i cant tell why" or "i dont exactly know why his posts seem scummy". Why do you scumread me? I would like some actual reasins that i am being voted so i can properly address the claims. In my experience scum (not saying you are) give vague scumreads of people so that the person cant defend themselves but still look scummy.

[Secret Agent Jin]

The vote counts shows we are not working together efficiently enough, that is basically a field day for scum, we need to be more in tune with each other and decide on who is scummy and not play into a chaos like scum wants us to.

@Dreal: I guess i can see why you say the sword/feather thing about IJ but what made you scum read the slot initially?

@Everyone: culted said that BnL and myself are the scum team, what links the two of us and if one flips scum, what makes the other obvscum from looking at the flip?

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Everyone: culted said that BnL and myself are the scum team, what links the two of us and if one flips scum, what makes the other obvscum from looking at the flip?

Why would anyone except culted agree with him that you two are linked? Culted didn't even say that himself, he just said that he has scumreads on both of you.

Tbh I'm fine with the current vote count since there are 3 votes on gamma, but there are only 4 days left so I suggest getting a claim p soon

A great way to do this would be by voting gamma

BnL and myself are the only two scumreads culted has. culted could have scum read us independently but if we are both scum in culted eyes then we must have something linking us or maybe something that looks like one of us is bussing the other. I am not scum and i cant talk for BnL but i can guarantee we are not scum together. As for my question to everyone about BnL and myself being linked, i was asking if anyone else sees BnL and myself as the scumteam. I also am not going to drop my vote on Gamma as it would be a compromise vote for me and there is enough time to scum hunt before a vote like that. Why comment on a question i being forth but never actually answer the question then say you are fine with a split vote count and soft push the fact you want my vote. That post is just distracting and, frankly, it makes me suspicious of you.

[Secret Agent Jin]

4 days is plenty to scum hunt but i will compromise if we get down to 2 and dont have a cohesive lynch.

[Secret Agent Jin]

IJ just seems to get more scummy the more they post, im slowly swinging there way.

As for Zach, i just finished a game that was Town!Zach, he played the same way there. He is offensive and attacks whoever votes him like they should know he is town. He postes some mean things and was active in the game i played with him. He does seem more subdued here and more lurkery but his posts here still contain salt lkke in the other game. I really want to scumread Zach for his overall playstyle but it has stayed consistent with his previous town game so i give a townlean to Zach.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have recently been reading IJ as scummy because of the insistence on people voting Gamma but not actually pointing out sufficient evidence for me to hop on. I want an IJ lynch but i am open to other lynches.

Culted, how confident are you of scum!BnL? Are you willing to choose someone else if there was time or are you sure of your vote?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have recently been reading IJ as scummy because of the insistence on people voting Gamma but not actually pointing out sufficient evidence for me to hop on. I want an IJ lynch but i am open to other lynches.

Also there's currently no votes on IJ what universe are you living in right now?

I want to vote IJ but i would be alone and it wouldnt go anywhere this late into a day phase so i didnt vote them.

As far as BnL goes, i believe his claim. There are time delayed roles in this game so i think he is town.

I am not much for meta but if you look at my past games i engage them more on D2 with a reads list, active questioning, and scum hunting. Day 1 to me is just people talking and no evidence or actions linking anyone to anything. I am a generally scummy sounding player and get scumread very easily no matter my alignment. If you look around you will see people scumreading me but not many votes towards myself. I guarantee you that you will always see a change to my playstyle Day 2, i just need to get used to the players in a game and i become very active.


Now, having explained my actions, i will say that, so far, my reads are the following

BnL, culted, Zach, Ari townreads
Dreal and Gamma Null
IJ and Dunn scumlean

[Secret Agent Jin]

VOTE: Zach

I tried to vouch for his meta but he really isnt putting much into the game from what i see. This is where my vote rests unless someone convinces me otherwise.

[Secret Agent Jin]

If Zach isnt scum then i dont know where to look. If he flips town then i will bend to the rest of you tomorrow.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I was literally in your townreads 2 posts ago

Town reads change as do feeling towards people. My townread was based on your meta but even in the poat i made vouching for you i said you were playing different this game. I am convinced that you playing different is AI.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I was literally in your townreads 2 posts ago

Town reads change as do feeling towards people. My townread was based on your meta but even in the poat i made vouching for you i said you were playing different this game. I am convinced that you playing different is AI.

I don't know what exactly you've done this game.

I admit that i was lost and had to reread the thread but i am caught up with a fresh look on the game and i see that my post defending you didnt make sense to me when i reread it. I said that you played relatively the same this game as the previous one i played with you but actually you are more lurky this game until someone points a finger at you and then you spring into action. In the previous game you actively scum hunted and you asked questions and engaged people instead of hanging back and reactively posting like in this game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I was literally in your townreads 2 posts ago

Town reads change as do feeling towards people. My townread was based on your meta but even in the poat i made vouching for you i said you were playing different this game. I am convinced that you playing different is AI.

I don't know what exactly you've done this game.

I admit that i was lost and had to reread the thread but i am caught up with a fresh look on the game and i see that my post defending you didnt make sense to me when i reread it. I said that you played relatively the same this game as the previous one i played with you but actually you are more lurky this game until someone points a finger at you and then you spring into action. In the previous game you actively scum hunted and you asked questions and engaged people instead of hanging back and reactively posting like in this game.

So why was I your scumread that entire game? Is it because of your amazing judgement?

You know why you were my scumread, you chose to say things that were aggressive and unneeded, there was a fair bit of dissonance (even though you and scout owned it), and you lied about your role (hider i believe). The only thing that matters and pertains to this game is that you were town in the previous game and you are playing different in this one, so differently that i find you scummy.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Try hard much IJ? I have wanted you lynched for your scummy posts for awhile now.

VOTE: IJ

[Secret Agent Jin]

Would you rather me jump on IJ while i slept? I am only on MS about once every 2 hours or so, i am a busy man. Its around the holidays, i am planning out a trip to see my boyfriend, and trying to pack. I cant always be on and i had just seen IJ being ran up at that point so i voted my SR.

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE:

I literally am scumread every game i play, its apparently the style in which i play, i cant shake the scumminess even when i am town. Do you want a role claim? Ill give you flavor and all. Just let me claim before you decide on my lynch.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Boyfriend huh?

Yeah but that detail isnt important, dont lynch me over me having a boyfriend lol

[Secret Agent Jin]

SAJ, who other than me do you most want to lynch

-Inf

I want Zach because of the reasons i gave beforehand. Why are you fine with a lynch on Ari? Just in case my wagon deflates.

[Secret Agent Jin]

By the way, i wasnt appealing to emotion, i was explaining why my vote on IJ was after her wagon got a bit of traction. I was busy and didnt see it until right before i voted.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So, do you all want a role claim or not? Im about to lay back down to sleep as it is 5:58am here and i wont be up for a few hours.

[Secret Agent Jin]

If IJ also wants me to i will vote Ari but i dont want to sheep and then people point at my sheep and i get ran up again before i wake up

[Secret Agent Jin]

If IJ also wants me to i will vote Ari but i dont want to sheep and then people point at my sheep and i get ran up again before i wake up

Are you scared of being scumread?

No, i get scumread by half the players in every game i play so i am used to being scumread. I just prefer to be awake to defend myself if i get to L-1 again

[Secret Agent Jin]

I seen IJ vote Ari so i assume they want an Ari lynch. Scum!IJ would not let me get ran up to L-1 and back off without a fight like they did. You gained a bit of a better read in my book IJ.

VOTE: Ari

[Secret Agent Jin]

Alright then! Before i go to bed i am placing my vote on Dreal because reasons. I dont know how to say this but im pretty sure this is where the mafia starts. The no kill last night couldnt have been a coincidence.

VOTE: Dreal

[Secret Agent Jin]

Ill out my info, im no use again until N3 anyways. I Role blocked Dreal and there was no night kill.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Why did you choose dreal?

I chose to RB Dreal because he was unclaimed and i wanted to see if he had a night action. It seemed as a town we were unsure of who to trust and who to scum read. I was going to either rb you or dreal and i picked right i guess.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Sadly, I think it's likely gamma is telling the truth about his claim but still scum.

-Inf

Well i think he is due back like Christmas day the opening VC said. Maybe he can explain what he did and we can determine from there. Did your tracker thing say what power he used or just that he used one. Also, i wonder why you got a response if you were delayed.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Alright, if Dreal is the 1-shot PR that he claimed and i RBd him then we need to work this out. My role is Lazy-and-so-are-you Non-Consecutive Night Roleblocker. Last night i used it so i cant block again until N3. Why wasnt Dreal blocked? I dont know that information, i chose him last night. Lets think about this, Town!Dreal uses his abitlity, i use my RB on him but his ability still goes through. What we are missing is a third link here as to why my ability didnt reach Dreal.

Also, why would i, as scum, come out and try to get Dreal lynched when, as scum, i would know he is town and i would be lynched the following day. 1v1 isnt worth it as scum unless we are further into the game. Town!me blocked town!Dreal but it didnt go through, i think its highly possible that scum was involved. Maybe a scum redirector or a scum role that switches two players. I definitely used my power last night but i will PM the mod and see if my action went through since Dreal got an answer, i should get an answer too.

All i ask is that you all wait until i get an answer from the mod and Gamma comes back with his result since IJ said he used an investigate. I just want time to sort this out and if you all still think i am scum then i will vote myself with you all.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So what you are saying is that i dont deserve at least a bit of time to figure this out. Also, I never said i targeted Dreal with a kill, i targeted him with an RB. That explains the no kill last night but the doctor claim has nothing to do with my rb attempt. What i am trying to figure out is why my rb didnt go through.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So what you are saying is that i dont deserve at least a bit of time to figure this out. Also, I never said i targeted Dreal with a kill, i targeted him with an RB. That explains the no kill last night but the doctor claim has nothing to do with my rb attempt. What i am trying to figure out is why my rb didnt go through.

Whether or not he was targeted for a kill is irrelevant to you being scum.

That is my point Zach, i am disconnected from if he was chosen for a kill or not. All that pertains to me is the fact that i chose to RB him and it didnt go through. I am happy it didnt go through because it allowed him to follow through with a pro-town action but the fact that there is still something that stopped me from doing my rb is what i am trying to find out.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think i fogot to unvote

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Dreal i actually RB'd you last night, now its just up to figuring out why it didnt RB you.

[Secret Agent Jin]

That is to say, there is no ploy to get you lynched, my reason for my oush on you at day start was because all the knowledge i had at that time was i RB'd you and there was no kill. Now more info has surfaced and i realize that you arent scum due to Zach's doctor action and it probably stopped a scum kill on you.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Here is a question, do you think Dreal's activation of his ability causes BnL's dayvig to happen since normally it is delayed?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Should I claim or nah?

Dont claim, there is no need unless we gain something toward lynching someone from your claim.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Nervousness and AtE? I havent appealed to anyones emotions unless you count the "i deserve a day or two to figure out my actions before i am lynched" but that was stating that i wanted to hear from everyone and converse before being lynched, that wasnt appealing to anyone's emotions.

[Secret Agent Jin]

My ability is the basic role block but i cant use it two nights in a row, i have to wait a night before using it again.

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE: Secret Agent Jin

my ability is NOT BLOCKABLE

I woke up today to a mod confirm that my RB went through. That means that your ability activated and then my rb stopped you from doing nothing lol. Its likely that the reason for no night kill was Zach's doctor save. That confusion is thankfully all cleared up. That only leaves who did the kill attempt come from?

IJ confirmed that Gamma did an night action so he wasnt V/LA during the night phase. Once Gamma confirms he used an investigation then that confirms IJ.

Zach is confirmed doctor? I mean its obvious he is but i always doubt myself.

Dreal is confirmed motivator

I am a roleblocker but not confirmed so i will leave myself in the overall mix.

BnL is claimed Dayvig but not confirmed

That leaves Dunn, Culted, BnL, Gamma, and myself.

What is everyones thoughts on the five non-confirmed?

I think i will give BnL the benefit of waiting for him to be confirmed so my vote wont be on him today and i wont selfvote obviously. That leaves 3 players that could be mafia, do we think there is two or three mafia? With the setup probably 2. Gamma and culted? Dunn and culted? Dunn and Gamma? Right now i would put my money on Gamma and culted. Ill ISO those three.

[Secret Agent Jin]

What did you say drunk titus? Role = alignment like ever?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Why are you going to vote me Gamma? How are you certain my role isnt non-consecutive? Do you know something i dont?

VOTE: Gamma

IJ, what do you want me to explain?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Whats my role name then? You seem so hesitant with your information like you are thinking fast to make something up.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have no idea why Gamma would claim a guilty on me as scum.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have no idea why Gamma would claim a guilty on me as scum.

Can you try and think? Otherwise there's no way you can be town

-Inf

I think the cop portion of his abilities might be a flavor cop and he investigated me but only got my role flavor, not my alignment. When he got that he might think i am scum but it wasnt confirmed in his result hence hia lush on me. He also could be a scum JOAT wanting to get a PR out if the way. He hasnt said anything on the fact thaf i was scum confirmed to him.

[Secret Agent Jin]

His push on me*

[Secret Agent Jin]

I voted him because he is vague and is slowly letting information out like he is making it up as he goes. That reeks of scum to me.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I voted him because he is vague and is slowly letting information out like he is making it up as he goes. That reeks of scum to me.

So is he making it up, or are you really not non-consecutive?

I was trying to make my role look weaker so i wasnt targeted tonight by a scumkill. I was also afraid that since my role isnt "lazy" or a "procrastinator" that everyone woukd think my role is scum since it seems the other PRs are delayed.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have already said why i think that. He seems like he is making up a case against me as he goes.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Gamma/IJ scum team. Boom, i solved the game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think Gamma believes i am scum but doesnt have a confirm that i am. I dont think the town is overpowered with what power roles are claimed. Most are delayed so it would leave room for a larger pool of PRs since the actions are immediate. I dont know what to believe. We havent heard much from BnL or culted.

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

Ooh saucy between the last two posts. Anyways, it seems we hit a brick wall in figuring out who we are going to lynch. I personally think there ia a scumteam in Gamma/IJ. Just follow my thought orocess for a moment. IJ says they are this watcher PR and that they targeted Gamma. Gamma says he is a JOAT and investigated me. That's a perfect excuse for a scum team. IJ confirms Gamma so we dont question him that much and Gamma gives you a "semi-utility" on me so when i flip town he can just tell everyone that i wasnt confirmed scum, just a suspicious player. Then IJ targets Gamma again this following night and confirms that he used another power. That puts them into the golden zone where no one suspects either one, heck, even IJ us widely townread.

In my eyes if Gamma flips scum then IJ can talk their way out of them two being a scum team but if IJ flips scum, Gamma is tightly nailed into the scum coffin.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Oh, i forgot the vote.

VOTE: Infinite Justice

[Secret Agent Jin]

*snip*

So you are saying to lynch IJ first?

Yeah, because if we lynch you first IJ can talk their way out of being scum. If IJ flips scum then you are obvscum.

[Secret Agent Jin]

One can assume that since BnL told Gamma he didnt shoot him and then BnL voted Dunn, he wouldn't have shot at either of them. That only leaves me, so even though BnL shot, he has to live with the guilt of shooting a town PR. How easy would it be for a mafia dayvig to live as a town dayvig? Moving on, since i am pretty sure he shot me in the future, i think a Dunn isnt scum. Dunn has been playing like he usually does and i really think he is 100% town along with Zach and Dreal. I obviously dont know now Dunn's role unless i missed a claim but do matter his role he is obvtown to me.

IJ and Gamma, is it just you two? You might as well claim your actual roles now because i am confident that you two are the scum team.

Pedit: IJ, why do you want to know who stopped your kill last night? So you can kill them tonight?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Some people are for Gamma and a couple are for IJ. If we lynch one then i am RBing the other at night. If there isnt a kill this coming night then we have our scum.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Maybe you got a point zach. And thinking about it his thing about the gamma/IJ team watching and rolecopping eachother doesn't make sense reading it again because they wouldn't actually

need

to use those actions on each other.

IJ claimed he uaed his power to watch Gamma and said he was informed that Gamma used his investigate power then Gamma claimed he role copped me. I was saying that it was an easy way to confirm each other. Basically "IJ is telling the truth, i used an investigate last night". That both confirms that IJ is a watcher and confirms that Gamma has the night abilities which he claimed he had. Its a perfect way to town confirm each other and not be looked at suspiciously.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Are my posts just invisible? I said like 20 posts before BnL that i was his target. I know that and i asked if he was ok that he shot town.

As for IJ saying "why would i be a scumteam with Gamma if i pushed for his lynch?" I forgot bussing isnt a thing scum does. I was thinking it was possible for scum to distance themselves. Its a foreign concept.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You all can believe whatever you want, i am a roleblocker and because of BnL i will die tomorrow. Ill do what i can for town this day phase though. I have had a change of heart and think that IJ's oush on Gamma was real and they are not a scumteam together. That leaves the question of who the real scumteam is.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I just got the prod, im here though, Dreal calls me bad all around but dies on D1/N1 in 90% of the games i play with him. Anyways, i do think its a Dunn/Gamma scumteam. Basically its a Someone/Gamma scumteam and im now convinced it isnt IJ with Gamma, their posts seem genuine.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dunn

P.S. IJ how often does Titus post through the hydra? I havent seen a post by her in awhile.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Alright, i just didnt want to slip up and use a He pronoun instead of They.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Welcome Titus, what are your views on why Dunn is Conftown and Gamma and I are scum?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Dreal calls me bad all around but dies on D1/N1 in 90% of the games i play with him.

lol

and we have 1 completed game together???

No, we have several but that is not important info for this game.

[Secret Agent Jin]

which, btw, SAJ and I were scum together and that was my only scumloss ever so far...

To be fair, i had no hand in you dying, you didnt either. It was a lucky vig shot.

[Secret Agent Jin]

To domination....

Nah you're scum imo

I don't think you really believe that

I don't think Zach believes it either, he is like a durian. Spiky and hurtful on the outside but all mushy on the inside. He is just a big lovable smelly durian.

[Secret Agent Jin]

That really wounded me

Im sorry, i mean you do have a sort of charm that is lovable but you act a bit "hard" if someone is seeing you for the first time. I guess i could use a different comparison.

Zach is like an island. He appears distant and treacherous at first but when you get close to him he is vibrant, unique, and full of life.

[Secret Agent Jin]

See, what is weird is
A) i doubt you are a doctor because he is dead
B) that wasn't my doing
C) i roleblocked someone other than you last night

So, basically, i didnt RB you so how did you attempt to protect him and fail? Who stopped you if you are the doctor? Im not saying you caused his death but you obviously didnt stop it. Now i wouldn't have even thought you were in on this but you come out of the gate with an accusatory vote and claiming you tried to protect him. I RB'd Gamma and i guarantee you that his action didnt go through.

Having blocked Gamma, i can say that i know he at least didnt submit the kill last night, his partner probably did due to there still being a kill. I maybe should have blocked you, Zach, and seen if we have a kill-free night.

VOTE: Zach

Now, it looks horrible that the "dayvig" died when i was going to be the target but i see it one of two ways. It was either the scum kill BnL and i live, they pin the death on me and im lynched, easy day phase for scum, they get a mislynch OR they kill someone else, let the dayvig kill me and BnL is confirmed so they cant get a lynch on BnL, he would have to go to LYLO or be nightkilled the following night.

Why would i kill the dayvig just to live to be lynched the next day? If im scum then all the evidence points to me and i am guaranteed to die by lynch today. Roleblocking BnL doesnt serve me any purpose because i still die today anyways. Its perfect for scum to set me up because in every scenario i die except this one which just delays my death. Keep in mind that when you run me up and hang me today that all scum has to do is kill tonight and they win by default. This is a mylo situation.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im glad to see that the votes for me are flowing in. Isnt down to 6 players? My mislynch leads to a 2v2 scum win tomorrow.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You are referring to him giving BnL a vest? Even though BnL is dead, i am alive so i guess its for the best. If you think of it like this, BnL was a basic townie shooting a town PR and doesnt have a use once he shoots. I can still RB scum if i hit correctly, i am still useful.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Spoiler:

SAJ, why the FUCK didn't you say so if you didn't want BnL to shoot you

You knew you were in danger of being lynched anyway, and getting rid of you would've gotten rid of a mislynch, while BnL was basically conftown

Going behind people's backs to save yourself is so scummy.

Meanwhile, I think scum must have a strongman since iirc there's no other way there could've been a nokill n1. BnL flipping eliminated the BnL/zach tinfoil.

Scum is in {culted, SAJ, gamma} and I think SAJ + gamma is still most likely

It's interesting that scum would make it so that BnL wasn't protected if they have a strongman anyway, but that gives them a more likely explanation for him dying.

-Inf

How did i go behind people's backs to save myself? I didnt kill him, it was up to Zach to save him since he claimed doctor, i already said i blocked Gamma and Gamma just said that he didnt submit an action so BnL wouldn't have been saved regardless of what my actions were. Im getting told that my night actions led to BnL's death yet i ended up blocking someone that didnt even use an action.

What have i done that is so scummy?
My Night Actions: I ended up blocking someone on D1 that didnt even get blocked and N2 i blocked someone that didnt use powers.
My Day Actions: i havent done anything that is a slip town or scum. I voted when i felt someone was scummy. I didnt sheep, i didnt quickhammer, i didnt jump on wagons when there was opportunity where scum would have. I am just a little tired of being universally scumread in all the games i have been in (not talking about ongoing games).

All this isnt AtE so dont even start to type about it. This isnt me whining about the game and begging to be townread. This is me basically asking what i have done, gameplay wise, to be scumread, i guess i just dont understand why. I dont want anyone to say "gutread" because its D3 and come on.

[Secret Agent Jin]

SAJ, if you had ANY issue with BnL killing you, you could've easily said so or made your case on d2.

-Inf

I could have made my case but i am scumread by all the players in this game, I doubt BnL would have listened to his scumread. Yes, i messed up when i RBd Gamma and i should have made a case to BnL about not killing me but i just knew he wouldnt listen. I kind of understand the point of policy lynches now, i messed up. I doubt i will live but if i do then you, yourself, can guide my rb tonight. Maybe it will actually be of some use, i do apologize. At least Gamma didnt submit an action, if he did then i would have self voted out of embarrassment.

BnL, if you are watching then i am sorry that i could have been the reason you died.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I dont know if it has been pointed out but so far, everyone that has claimed/flipped are PRs. This could be a full PR game. Its really not important that i bring this up but i thought i would just point it out.

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

I cant fight my lynch because Zach and Dreal are just voting without too much reason l. They are basically just like
"look, he is obviously scum"
"Why though?"
"Because he is obvscum, the NK points to him"

Lynch me, when i flip look at Gamma and Culted

Actually, it wont matter much since the scum will kill tonight and you all will enter next day phase as 2v2 and scum wins.

[Secret Agent Jin]

UNVOTE:

Except your vote on me was really really bad


But I'll bite, we've fucked up too much as it is largely in part due to me

It was OMGUS and that is why i removed it. Also, you say you were part of the f up but if your doctor claim was real then you saved Dreal N1 right? We would be down one player if you didnt.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I really dont think you have low intelligence, i mean, in Hunger Games 2 you rocked it pretty well. Everyone was claiming, you take the chance of being looked at sideways if you dont claim like everyone else is.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Having blocked Gamma, i can say that i know he at least didnt submit the kill last night, his partner probably did due to there still being a kill. I maybe should have blocked you, Zach, and seen if we have a kill-free night.

Why block gamma?

I blocked Gamma because i think he is scum. My block on him was a play to stop the scumkill but it still went through. Since there was a kill that means his partner had to submit the kill. In retrospect, if Gamma actually wasnt present to submit actions like he claimed then i wasted my RB because i blocked a player that did no actions. I already apologized because if Gamma was present and Town then he could have gave BnL the vest and stopped the kill. I dont know what to think since if i hadnt blocked him then we could have seen if BnL would have been alive and confirmed Gamma was town due to the vest.

That is to say, there is no ploy to get you lynched, my reason for my oush on you at day start was because all the knowledge i had at that time was i RB'd you and there was no kill. Now more info has surfaced and i realize that you arent scum due to Zach's doctor action and it probably stopped a scum kill on you.

I don't think that this is what town would default to?

Action =/= Kill attempt.

Are you saying an action doesnt equal the kill? I really dont know what =/= means. I votes Dreal because at the time all i knew was i blocked Dreal and there was not a kill. Normally that signals a blocked scum but it turned out that Dreal's actions resolved first which meant my RB did nothing. The reason i realized Dreal was town was due to Zach's claim that he doctored Dreal which means that was probably the reason for a no-kill N1 and it clears Dreal and Zach.

You say that Gamma and me are a good choice for the scumteam but IJ watched Gamma and confirmed that he used an investigation. If we were scum together then why would he need to investigate me? He would know my role/alignment from the start. Also i believe he said that he believed i was scum from his investigation. He could have cleared me as town and no one would have thought anything about it if we were the scumteam. Ill give you that claiming i am clear and then either of us flipping scum would mean the other is scum.

Lastly, if i am lynched and i flip scum then that automatically means Gamma is probably scum. Do you think that, as a scumteam, Gamma and myself would leave ourselves linked tightly so that one flipping scum means the other will flip scum?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Are you saying an action doesnt equal the kill?

I'm saying that it doesn't make sense for you to no longer think blocking dreal couldn't have stopped the kill just because he used a motivator.
To be fair most people started to assume that was a town-role right after.
Did zach claim doc before or after that?

I assumed Dreal had a town role because Zach claimed before the post you are talking about.

I don't think it's unfair to think scum would flavorcop scum but also there's the fact that ij only confirmed he used an investigation not who he used it on.

Thats fair but who would have he used it on? Surely if he confirmed Zach was a Doctor or you were whatever you claim, VT right?, that you would see a flip from a Zach kill or whatever. Basically, what i am saying is that if he faked hia claim that he invested me, you would have surely seen his real invest dead.

That also brings me to the point that the BnL kill was a good kill since it pins all blame on me. If scum had killed, lets say IJ, then IJ would have flipped and i would have died during the day since BnL shot me. That would cause scum to scramble to find a lynch for today so they could win. Killing BnL at night serves two purposes.
1) It gets rid of a town member which is always good for scum.
2) It pins all the blame on me so i get lynched and scum enters N3 as 3Tv2S and they win with a town kill tonight.

TL;DR By setting me up as the cause of BnL's death they put forth a juicy mislynch for today and the game ends in a scum win.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I assumed Dreal had a town role because Zach claimed before the post you are talking about.

And you don't think there's any chance at all that you blocked the kill?

Thats fair but who would have he used it on? Surely if he confirmed Zach was a Doctor or you were whatever you claim, VT right?, that you would see a flip from a Zach kill or whatever. Basically, what i am saying is that if he faked hia claim that he invested me, you would have surely seen his real invest dead.

It doesn't really matter.
Technically yes.

Also why and how would gamma actually investigating someone else mean that he as scum would necessarily be sure to kill them?

As for blocking the kill, i never gave it any thought. I took Dreal's word and assumed he was town. He hasnt really done anything to make me think he is scummy other than vote me but obviously town vote town all the time so that is never a factor when scum reading someone. I still assume that Zach stopped the scum kill, i mean, one way to think about it is that Dreal and Zach could be the scumteam but i really never gave it thought. What do you think? You obviously gave it more thought then i ever would.

As for the Gamma invest/kill thing, i guess they arent mutually exclusive. Just because you investigated someone doesnt mean you would kill them. I guess if he investigated someone's and they were a bulletproof then he obviosuly wouldn't have killed them.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Man, culted, now you have me thinking. I am suppose to be in bed because of my early packing day tomorrow but now im going to be up for awhile thinking about this.

[Secret Agent Jin]

What do you think?

I'm just thinking about all the possibilities out there and what makes the most sense.

Do you still think gamma/ij is the team?

I mean, if Gamma/IJ is the team then why wouldn't Gamma claim that his invest came back as Scum!me and get me lynched?

Actually, if Gamma claimed i was scum then i flipped town, he would be lynched the next day. IJ could have fake-confirmed Gamma invested and Gamma could have said he invested me but how would they have used that information to push my lynch? Surely they would have kept the invest to themselves and killed me for being an RB so that doesnt really line up as them being the scumteam plus Gamma would have been the lynch period when i flipped town no matter how he pushed me. Unless they were planning to pin the BnL kill on me since he came out the same day with who he was shooting but that still doesnt answer how they got past Zach if he is a doctor and was on BnL. The Gamma claim on me was way before the BnL claim though, i would think they would try to push something on me shortly after Gamma's invest claim. I just dont see Gamma/IJ as the scumteam.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have addressed the Gamma/Me scum team and the Gamma/IJ scum team. Im fairly confident that you, culted, are town as you could have left your vote on me and waited for more votes. Instead you are trying to game solve and it would be easier as scum to park your vote on me since i am the easy push for today. That only leaves
Gamma/Dreal
Gamma/Zach which i dont see either being scum together.
IJ/Dreal
IJ/Zach
Zach/Dreal this does have a common link D2 so ill look into this.

What do you think about IJ/Dreal or IJ/Zach? I personally dont see any connections with either of them.

[Secret Agent Jin]

ohno, culted

you let them pull you off the right perspective

fuck

I got ahead of myself on reading

get back on SAJ pls you had it all right your catchup was like SPOT ON

Yeah, i understand that the evidence from the night kill points to me but how do you explain the no kill N1? I never even gave it thought, just took Zach's word for it that he doctored you. Culted put forth the idea that a Dreal/Zach team could have whiffed on the kill then covered up for it. I am waiting to see what he says on the matter.

You cant just say "no, that isnt right, put your vote back on SAJ" and expect that to clear you. This day is crucial because if we mislynch, scum wins.

Culted, i will answer any questions you have about my play but i implore you to do your own digging and come up with an idea or questions that are not muddied by scums opinions.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have addressed the Gamma/Me scum team and the Gamma/IJ scum team. Im fairly confident that you, culted, are town as you could have left your vote on me and waited for more votes. Instead you are trying to game solve and it would be easier as scum to park your vote on me since i am the easy push for today. That only leaves
Gamma/Dreal
Gamma/Zach which i dont see either being scum together.
IJ/Dreal
IJ/Zach
Zach/Dreal this does have a common link D2 so ill look into this.

What do you think about IJ/Dreal or IJ/Zach? I personally dont see any connections with either of them.

The thing is, who could be the rb/strongman who killed BnL if zach is town? Gamma, me, and dreal were all confirmed to use different actions n1. Well I suppose we could be scum JoaTs...

And if zach is scum and dreal is town, who stopped the kill?

-Inf

I have addressed the Gamma/Me scum team and the Gamma/IJ scum team. Im fairly confident that you, culted, are town as you could have left your vote on me and waited for more votes. Instead you are trying to game solve and it would be easier as scum to park your vote on me since i am the easy push for today. That only leaves
Gamma/Dreal
Gamma/Zach which i dont see either being scum together.
IJ/Dreal
IJ/Zach
Zach/Dreal this does have a common link D2 so ill look into this.

What do you think about IJ/Dreal or IJ/Zach? I personally dont see any connections with either of them.

The thing is, who could be the rb/strongman who killed BnL if zach is town? Gamma, me, and dreal were all confirmed to use different actions n1. Well I suppose we could be scum JoaTs...

And if zach is scum and dreal is town, who stopped the kill?

-Inf

If you are talking about the no kill D1 then what Culted and myself have theorized is that i blocked the kill N1 when i RB'd Dreal. He said the mod confirmed to him that his power went through but i was thinking even though the power went through, the kill might not of. That could be the reason that Zach said he doctored Dreal N1, to take away the speculation of where the night kill disappeared to and deflect suspicions on himself and Dreal. The problem with all that is why does Dreal have the ability to speed up delayed abilities. Well Dunn's ability causes a night kill on him to be delayed an extra day and Dreal's ability negates that, causing Dunn to die the night he was killed. Now, that information wasnt given about Dunn's role until after N1, i am simply saying that there is reason for scum to have Dreal's ability. Also, many town members have both delayed and regular abilities, it would make sense that scum also had an ability that was normal (Dreals) and a delayed ability like delayed strongman or delayed JOAT. If we look at Dreal/Zach as a possible team then Dreal could speed up Zach if he was delayed, causing a stongman or JOAT ability to activate that night. To balance the game Dreal's ability also un-delays towns abilities.

Now, having said all of that, if you were talking about If Zach is scum and Dreal is town who stopped the kill N1 then that is a bit more perplexing. I blocked Dreal N1 which would allow Zach to kill freely. Zach targeting Dunn would have still killed Dunn because of Dreal's ability N1. Zach targeting anyone else would have kill them. In my eyes Zach cant be scum if Dreal is town as there would have been a kill N1. The only way is if Zach and Dreal are scum and Dreal executed the kill N1.

Now, IJ, with your vote on me, that allows Dreal and Zach to hammer in quick succession and enter the night with a win. I ask that we refrain from voting until we are clear on who we want to get lynched, even if it is me.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You know, i could also double quoting that post....that is fun

[Secret Agent Jin]

What? How do you even respond to an actual discussion with a contentless post and expect us to take you seriously?

[Secret Agent Jin]

So instead of actually joining the conversation and giving a counter arguement, you are just waving away everything that is being discussed and calling me obvscum. If town loses to you im going to be angry, i would understand my mislynch if everyone went back and forth and we decided on my lynch but you dont even want to talk, you just dismiss everything like this game is done.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Gamma/Zach which i dont see either being scum together.

Why?

Because if it was Gamma/Zach i think it would be beneficial for Zach to have let my push about blocking Dreal N1 continue and when he flipped town then i would have gotten lynched the next day. If it was Zach/Anyone except Dreal then he would have let me continue the push. The only explainations are if Zach is teamed with Dreal or if he is doctor. Other than Zach voting Gamma i didnt notice any busses or defenses between the two slots.

Zach/Dreal this does have a common link D2 so ill look into this.

Why?

That post about the link was pertaining to the no kill N1 and Zach stopping my push on Dreal D2 by claiming he was doctor. I detailed my thoughts on that possibility a few posts of mine ago.

What do you think about IJ/Dreal or IJ/Zach? I personally dont see any connections with either of them.

Are you forgetting dreals very early tunnel on IJ?

I did forget about that, i dont remember a tunnel but i will look back to confirm. If there was a tunnel it could be a potential buss but a tunnel on your patner is risky and if IJ had been lynched from that tunnel then Dreal would have been single scum and fighting against the odds to a 3 way lylo. I dont really see a Dreal/IJ scumteam.

I want to ask you a question now culted. We are piecing together potential scumteams and how they could or couldnt be linked but many times a Gamma/myself scumteam has been posted about. What makes you or others think this is possible? What do others see that link us together?

[Secret Agent Jin]

It's also weird how IJ brought up the possibility of a scum-joat because that's another thought I had last night.

If gamma's town or scum then stands to reason there could be another joat out there and if it's scum they'd obviously only claim one trade.

Som lets step into the mindset that there is a scum joat. Who would it be? Gamma claims JOAT and you claim VT so you havent used abilities so that leaves four slots. Two of us (Dreal and IJ) have confirmed to have used an ability and two of us (Zach and myself) have claimed to use an ability.
What would a scum JOAT look like? Jailkeep/RB, ninja, strongman, Cop?
A town JOAT? Watch, Track, Doctor, Cop, JK/RB?

That is a lot of speculation for no real results, what do you think?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I want to ask you a question now culted. We are piecing together potential scumteams and how they could or couldnt be linked but many times a Gamma/myself scumteam has been posted about. What makes you or others think this is possible? What do others see that link us together?

So I think scum either has to be zach/dreal or 2 of {culted, gamma, you}. I think the first one is unlikely given my strong townread on dreal and because I find it unlikely it would benefit scum very much to have his role. At best they'd be able to kill dunn faster, and if they no kill for a night they'd get one other ability faster. But I'd also have my role sped up, and to skip a kill for something barely better than even.

Culted has been town for me the whole game, and his stream-of-consciousness catchup was just really good posting and made me townread him even more.

That leaves you and gamma. Make sense?

-Inf

I don't follow your logic that to use Dreal's ability he would have to skip a night kill. Some mods dont allow for someone to kill and use an ability but many games i have played in a scum member can both kill and use an ability. Say Zach was a delayed strongman or JOAT with the strongman ability, it would make sense for Dreal to be able to use his ability while Zach uses a strongman kill.
Also, it seems logical that there is a scum JOAT as culted theorized because we have both a RB and a watcher. As a scum joat the abilities could be ninja which doesnt show up to the watcher ability and strongman to be able to negate the roleblock.

So, since you have a townread of Dreal do you think the D2 shenanigans were me covering for hitting a protected townie or Zach/Dreal framing me when they actually got RBd by myself?

If you look at the game you will see that on D2 i came out and claimed that i RBd Dreal and then Zach shut that down to push my lynch. He either thought he could hang me for it or he was covering for a blocked night kill. On D3 BnL showed up dead and everything about his kill points to me. Do you think it was a move to further frame me or myself trying to not die? If i killed BnL i would just get lynched today. By killing BnL and negating his vig shot on me they guarantee my mislynch today and they win, period.

I dont know how to convince you all anymore, just lynch me and lets end this game, good game scum. I hope in the future you dont let the scumteam go unsuspected. They just hung back all game and let town destroy themselves.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I mean look at Dreal, he isnt even trying to argue my points, he knows he has a scumwin and he laughs about it in one of his posts.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Saj I'm trying to help you reach a world that makes sense and you keep flipping the script back to me.

You're the guy on the chopping block and you shouldn't write me off as town this hard either : 3.

At this point, I'd really like to know who gamma thinks is scum that should be interesting.

I was semi flipping it back to you because i was trying to bounce ideas off of you to solve the game. I wrote you off as town because i genuinely dont see you flipping scum. You were active early on the game and then you went lurky and now you are back. I assumed you just got busy and were not lurking because of scummy reasons. I have presented all the possible ideas i have and i was trying to solve the scumteam but its obvious that i am getting lynched. There wont be a D4 as with this mislynch scum will even the numbers with a NK and end the game after N3.

Good game, and ill see you in the post game tomorrow.

[Secret Agent Jin]

it's almost believable SAJ

but there are tells

Like what exactly? I don't follow where you are going with this.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I don't follow your logic that to use Dreal's ability he would have to skip a night kill. Some mods dont allow for someone to kill and use an ability but many games i have played in a scum member can both kill and use an ability. Say Zach was a delayed strongman or JOAT with the strongman ability, it would make sense for Dreal to be able to use his ability while Zach uses a strongman kill.

[*]Mafia can do the factional nightkill next to their other abilities, if any.

Sorry was going off of what culted had said

But the thing is, strongman wouldn't make sense since there was no kill n1. Neither would rb unless they blocked someone unclaimed which doesn't make sense. So what then, a rolecop?

Well scum JOAT usually has scum beneficial powers like a ninja which makes sense given you are a watcher, maybe a rolecop to help scum hit a town pr, jailkeeper/rb to stop a pr, strongman if town has a doctor or rb. All of these powers can be delayed because of how this specific game is. All these powers are one shot so given the no kill N1 it is likely that Dreal used his power to boost Zach's power so it wasnt delayed. Zach probably didnt use his strongman N1 and instead like a rolecop or rb, Dreal instead performed the kill and was stopped by my role block. I point to Dreal and Zach for two reasons.
1) i am sure it is Zach and Dreal because of the link D2
2) A delayed joat works well with Dreals ability and Zach did come to his defense quite fast so, looking back, i am sure that is the scum team.

If you look at the game you will see that on D2 i came out and claimed that i RBd Dreal and then Zach shut that down to push my lynch. He either thought he could hang me for it or he was covering for a blocked night kill.

what's your point? why couldn't zach have thought you were scum?

There is a possibility that a town!Zach thought he had caught scum and that is why he claimed. In the end we solved the fact that Dreal's ability happened before my rb and i assumed Zach stopped a kill on Dreal. That ended that discussion about my reason i claimed RB and thought i stopped the kill. Looking back it could have easily been that i did stop the kill and Zach was defending his partner while still looking towny. So, in conclusion, my point was that is the link between Dreal and Zach and the reason i believe they are the scumteam. Also along with the BnL kill was an easy set up since all fingers pointed at me for the kill.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I forgot to add my vote to the last post. On top of what i have talked about, Dreal has waved away all my posts and it took me several posts just to get him to actually post about what i was saying. He has this game in the bag and he wasnt bothered about what i was saying, he even laughed about it because he knew i was bound to be lynched and felt he didnt need to say anything. If he was town then he would want to find the scum instead of just letting someone who wasnt him get lynched.

VOTE: Dreal

Pedit: I always get the role name wrong lol, i want to say tracker or watcher. Ill remember that the role is called follower.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I dont know how to convince you all anymore, just lynch me and lets end this game, good game scum. I hope in the future you dont let the scumteam go unsuspected. They just hung back all game and let town destroy themselves.

not only is this overdone emotionally (the defeatedness is fake town instead of real scum - if you let the actual defeated-as-scum feeling come through it'd actually come across as genuine towny defeated - you're also basically addressing 1 person and say "you all" exaggerating it)

also, the entire post is a defense of how your actions clear you, but the summary is "scum hung back and town destroyed themselves" , you should be making your arguments for who the hanging-back-scum are waayyyy more harder/obvious/pointed towards someone specific

First of all, in order to have the defeated-as-scum feeling i would have to be scum. I am fighting tooth and nail to change people's minds but i can only fight so much. People's minds are dead set sometimes and after fighting to change peoples minds for awhile it does seem useless and i do get the thoughts of just letting the game end with my mislynch. I do feel defeated, there is nothing scummy about feeling like you are fighting a lost cause.

Also, i am making my arguement about who are scum. You and Zach, period in my mind. Unless it turns out that you are an amazing scum and was able to keep your distance from Gamma and be unsuspected then it has to be you and Zach in my mind. I never hid that today.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@IJ Well, i basically townread culted because they havent done anything scummy but i guess it would be more of a gutread townlean or a town null. I just don't see culted as scum. Is there a case to be made? Do you feel culted has done something you caught?

I guess i just decided it had to be Dreal/Zach since culted made no sense with anyone and a scum follower makes no sense. Both Dreal and Zach were pushing a scumread on Gamma and that could be a buss from one of them but i read it as a genuine scumread or pushing scum blame onto him and off of them.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im glad you decided to join us and be a productive person Dreal. Ill let you in on a secret. Im not the scum your looking for. I dont think culted is scum, the unvote was necessary in order to facilitate my existence. Let me take off my Scum!Dreal glasses and think hard about other scumteams. Gamma/Zach, Gamma/IJ, i dont really know. This shit show is growing old. We are just haphazardly pointing fingers at each other, this is like the salem witch trials. "She is a witch for dancing and she is a witch for laughing on church". We need to agree on someone even if it is mine or culted's mislynch.

[Secret Agent Jin]

GE would also know how to plan the NAs

Not sure I agree with this (sorry gamma)

-Inf

So who is experienced enough in your mind?

[Secret Agent Jin]

But real talk does Titus not posting from the hydra this whole game confuse anyone else

I just figured she wasnt interested in the game. I mean, i feel bad for Inf since he had to run the hydra by himself.

[Secret Agent Jin]

If im alive tonight ill block whoever you all choose, culted or dreal