Open 660 - White Flag (Game Over)

[Toto]

UNVOTE: Transcend

My role is five-shot dayvig parity cop with the ability to jail and execute at night and I can detect lies as well as heal up to three players per night.

Counter-claim! VOTE: Dave

Why did you unvote?

[Toto]

UNVOTE: Transcend

My role is five-shot dayvig parity cop with the ability to jail and execute at night and I can detect lies as well as heal up to three players per night.

Counter-claim! VOTE: Dave

Why did you unvote?

Are you scumreading me for unvoting a meme vote?

Not scum-reading you yet. Just trying to sort out your actions. Why did you feel you needed to unvote your meme vote?

[Toto]

Hey Key!

I'm town. But I've read a game where you were scum and I really hope you are not here.

[Toto]

Still not convinced about Dave. Not sure I buy the attitude.

Aubrey is reading like the towniest of the lot.

[Toto]

Nope.

[Toto]

Transcend. May I ask why are you scum-reading me or you are not sharing that either?

Also, can you articulate why you think Dave is town?

[Toto]

Well, I didn't buy his response. He says that his two votes were meme. But I don't see how the second self vote is a meme vote.

If he is lynch bating he is doing a good job.

[Toto]

Well, I didn't buy his response. He says that his two votes were meme. But I don't see how the second self vote is a meme vote.

If he is lynch bating he is doing a good job.

Why would scum vote for themselves seriously?

I saw it as a (bad) attempt to stall his own wagon by putting on a suicidal show. So they are not seriously trying to lynch themselves but the vote has some agenda behind it.

[Toto]

Yes I can see it both ways but leaning more scum side. Latest post indicate he genuinely doesn't give a shit about the game.

[Toto]

I think his most recent post is silly seeing as he self hammered as town in a previous game I played with him.

You are talking of Dave or Eric?

[Toto]

Even if Aubrey was scum, those posts were intended as pure joke. There is no way in hell a wagon was going to build up. As our late Eric was pointing out it takes 7 people to a lynch, that'd require a pretty mindless town. I'd be slightly more worried about them if Gamma flips scum and even then I'd be reaching.

[Toto]

Well, I didn't buy his response. He says that his two votes were meme. But I don't see how the second self vote is a meme vote.

If he is lynch bating he is doing a good job.

Why would scum vote for themselves seriously?

I saw it as a (bad) attempt to stall his own wagon by putting on a suicidal show. So they are not seriously trying to lynch themselves but the vote has some agenda behind it.

This is the second time I have seen an excuse for misinterpreting by this slot.

Are you talking about me here? I don't understand.

[Toto]

Yes, I was talking about you. I can't be arsed to go find the other quote that you did this. I will say you do seem a little opportunistic like someone (forgot who) said. The jump on Dave wasn't a good look for you. I wouldn't argue the point if I was you cuz that would not be smart. I haven't seen you really make any kind of impact on this game as well.

Let me get this straight. You throw a shade on me and I should just let it go without asking you to explain what you meant?

Also, like 5 people voted or wanted to vote him after I RVS voted and asked him a simple question which he refused to answer. If Dave is town, why am I the opportunistic one here? Why are you and Trascend (that's who you forgot, btw) not looking at anyone else in that wagon?

And how can you say I have no impact when that has been the only large wagon in this game. Now please do explain where I was 'excusing myself for misinterpreting things'.

[Toto]

Catching up...

Now please do explain where I was 'excusing myself for misinterpreting things'.

LQ. You didn't answer this.

In other words, you can base pretty much nothing on BW at this stage of the game. You do not pass go, you do not collect $200.

My point is that opportunistic scum are generally in the middle of the wagon because that allows them to fly under the radar more easily. The first few and last votes are the ones that gather more attention.

Spoiler: Aubrey's post about Dave's BW

I don't know how I feel about Toto. Please explain to me why it is so opportunistic? Like he said wouldn't it be more opportunistic regarding those who jumped on once the wagon began to build? In order...

--

Transcend: post 15 (total RVS)

Toto: Post 42 (Basically RVS it seems with like a hint of real questioning. Once he is pushed he says he wasn't fond of the suicidal play in post 125)

Lethargy: post 56 + 57 (continues adding onto the wagon saying he is deflecting and scum with Transcend. Latter part probably being RVS talk.)

Gamma: post 58 and post 61 (says obvious scum for the self vote. Eh. No, not necessarily.)

Dave: himself post 59 (I mean yea it's weird, but seems like playful town who doesn't care about being serious just yet. Seems a bit early for scum to freak out and think, "

Oh shit gotta do something crazy to get these peeps off me.

")

Ssbm: post 60 who is the final vote on the bandwagon who continued to add onto the wagon because he never addressed toto only to hop off immediately once he realizes the vote count, but was still interested in lynching/pushing the slot based on his comment in post 63.

--

So, why is Toto the most likely to be scum (should their be scum) on this wagon based on opportunism? I'd be interested in hearing Transcend chime in on this since he was the first person to argue this in post 97 + 101, but has now moved onto new votes.

--

phew. That outlines the whole Dave bandwagon pretty much.

Thanks for writing this out. You missed DeerMan who declared intent to vote.

Dave 's self-vote seemed a bit of 'Reverse-Psych' mixed in it like town will think a scum wont self-vote. He is either a scum who is trying to do mind games or a town who was just frustrated and annoyed with the wagon on him. And i dont think a town will be that frustrated to self-vote.

Not voting him rn . He might be at L-1?

The reason I thought the vote was opportunistic is because there was such little basis for the vote all the while trying to make more of a reason out of it than there was. It also "felt" a lot stronger than an RVS vote. In other words, there was intent behind the vote that was unjustified.

I RVS selected him because of the claim joke drew my attention it was only afterwards that I noticed the unvote and decided to probe. To be honest I was expecting something like "the wagon was building up but my vote was random so I wanted to remove because I'm not voting him for real" and move on with life. But there is something wrong about his reaction and his response to my original question that still bothers me. I'll explain later. First I want to see Dave's catch up post.

Also, Aubrey is still my top town read.

I don't like LQ too much, but I have mixed feelings after that exchange with Aubrey.

My guess is there is at least one scum in {Dave, LQ, Trascend, Gamma, Alban}

I think sbbm is town even though the arguments for pushing Aubrey were wrong.

I have a slight town read on Key but want to see more. Rest are null at this point.

[Toto]

Actually Alban's ISO is not that bad. I think it was those post about Key being an active lurker that gave some bad vibes but I think he just doesn't understand what active lurking is.

[Toto]

Yeah, I don't like Gamma's ISO.

[Toto]

@Gamma
Well is the fact that it's a bunch of one liner comments on what's going on or shading. No substantial game-solving. i.e. I don't see anything townie.

I'm not voting you because you are not my top scum read.

[Toto]

I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand what you mean but I can't. How did I reach that conclusion?

You mean because you voted dave and I scum read dave I should never scum read you?

[Toto]

@gamma I don't think I said anyone was bussing dave. Where did you get the idea I was sure of that?

@Dave, please give me your top 2 reads. In terms of confidence. Scum or town. Doesn't matter.

[Toto]

Hey guys, been busy with life and work but want to catch up tonight.

[Toto]

@gamma I don't think I said anyone was bussing dave. Where did you get the idea I was sure of that?

@Dave, please give me your top 2 reads. In terms of confidence. Scum or town. Doesn't matter.

I misread your post is what happened

Given your attempt to leave later on I'm more willing to buy this. However, can you please explain this a bit more, how did you misread my post?

[Toto]

Not sure what to make of Alban's wagon to be honest.

Alban himself says he was joking to lynchbait (that's what I understood at least) but the posts seem like he is genuinely angry. At the same time some of the posts do read like angry town.

Most suspicious participation goes to Dave who threw a shade in the wagon and never voted it. At least we know Dave and Alban are def. not scum buddies.

[Toto]

I don't know if Gamma is really uninterested in the game or if is all just an act. His response to my question also doesn't make any sense either.

VOTE: Gamma

I missed you mentioning Dave in that scumpool earlier so I assumed you figured someone was bussing him.

Like the more times I read that the less it makes sense to me. You saw:

1) I was voting Dave.
2) I told you I'm not voting You because you are not my top scum read.
2) Dave is not in my scum list (according to you this is what you misread).

Why don't you just ask me why am I voting Dave if Dave is not in my scum list? How do you make the mental leap to "So Toto thinks someone is bussing Dave"?

[Toto]

You had a bracketed list of scum
I missed daves name in there
I assumed that meant you thought someone was bussing him

Yes, that's what I said in my post. What I don't understand is how you got from (2) to (3)?

Let me put it this way. I see player A voting player B. Player A publishes a list of scum reads that doesn't include player B. My first reaction would be to say "Hey Player A, you are voting player B but you are not scum reading them, why?" How did you not find that suspicious instead?

[Toto]

Everyone is just voting randomly in this game and no body is asking questions. When I ask questions I get nil answers back, and nobody seems to care.

Gamma whats your case against Trascend? Why are you not questioning him?
Trascend, whats your case against LQ? Why not questioning him?
LQ why are you still voting an empty slot? How are you going to question an empty slot?

All these behaviors are scummy.

Lethargy/Chilled/Keyen/Dave have provided very little ACTUAL content. Deer and Cracker have pratically not been in the game.

Dave's every second post of his little list of posts is scummy yet no one wants to vote him. Town!dave unvotes to avoid a ML at RVS and then suddenly changes his attitude from careful townie to a reckless one by self voting. Then he says both votes were meme votes. I've been trying to get a read list from him but at this point he is just balantly game avoiding.

Gamma is showing 0 scumhunting in their content. Read their ISO. Look at the way he is replying to my questions. Tell me if you believe the answers. I have 0 feedback from everyone else.

If either of them flips scum Trascend would be my next best guess since there is a good chance he was chainsawing me. All he does is provides empty reads / votes and doesn't do anything to really move the game forward.

My only town reads today have been Aubrey and to a lesser extent Alban. Alban you have a really bad sense of humor but I think you are town.

[Toto]

I just don't like when people complain. So I complain when they do

In general, I won't have time to check in more than once a day. Maybe on weekends

but not this one because I'll be VL/A (@mod)

[Toto]

What do you think about me voting alban? I noticed I was left out of this post and I'm pretty sure I'm the only player you left off. I've also pushed both of your townreads this game, and it seems like a lot of people think my pushes on them are bad, so why don't you address that at all? Unless I missed it earlier lol

Yeah. I knew I was forgetting someone. I've already addressed your push on Aubrey and I stand by it. I don't have a strong read on you but I'm leaning town. Your vote post for Alban and your reasoning looks genuine. The only thing that gave me a bit of pause was the timing. I found your interaction / comments about Trascend a bit suspicious but you already addressed that.

The fact that you are pushing my town reads is NAI to me. I'm more interested in why you are pushing them and how.

[Toto]

(unofficial vote count)

What do you guys think of my auto-generated vote-post links?

LicketyQuickety (2)

: Aubrey, Transcend

alban (1)

: ssbm_Kyouko

Transcend (3)

: PsychoticDave, Gamma Emerald, LicketyQuickety

Lethargy (1)

: chilledtea

Gamma Emerald (1)

: Toto

keyenpeydee (1)

: alban

[Toto]

Yep. Same feeling here. Why would you shoot Lethargy though?

[Toto]

Aubrey is the one that is showing most effort to gamesolve and it looks genuine to me. If she is scum she is a really good one.

[Toto]

That has been my overall impression but can probably point at a few posts that I've liked.

[Toto]

You are missing my entire point. You can't say, "Hey guys let's start narrowing down some lynch options!" Without bringing forward reads. More importantly you said this at a time in which the game just started, and there was no info on the board to even accomplish it. Even now you're saying, " I have no info to work with, but let's get a move on and narrow down some lynch options!"

If you're going to say this then you need to be proactive about it and stop relying on other ppl to do all the work to accomplish this.

Further more, there is more to this game than just night kill analysis.

Like here they are voting Eric but at the same time they are trying to help newbtown!eric.

Obviously this doesn't mean Aubrey is town by itself but it is one of the reasons I started town reading them early on and there are a few other posts that I've liked too appart from the general attitude to bring the game forward.

[Toto]

Lq. Did you read key as town for being a non native speaker? How does that work?

[Toto]

Keyen might be Town.

On mobile. Can not multipost. But I think it was around there

[Toto]

I feel this game is not going anywhere without more people involved.

My town read on key went stale. I think he is a good player but he is not putting too much thought or effort in this game. Given the game state is probably NAI but it is not helping either.

From the less active players I like chill the most.

I'n on vla for next 2 days.

UNVOTE:

[Toto]

Hello. I have very limited access and time since Im travelling, and wont be able to post much today and tomorrow is going to be busy for me.

Ive already explained my vote on dave multiple times. it stayed there because I was waiting for him to respond to the case or post a catch post so I could get a better read.

I feel some people are voting me as a compromise so I don't know what else I can say to that other than I will flip green.

I will do a full re read when I'm in front of a pc again.

[Toto]

I unvoted because Im on vl/a and don't have time to keep up with the thread...

I already explained my case on david. When I scumhunt I look for inconsistencies in personalities. The david that unvotes an rvs vote on a growing wagon is a careful david. The david that self votes is a reckless david. There is no way a self vote is a meme vote like he says. You don't vote yourself with 5 other votes for no reason whatsoever. You are trying to make a point that you don't care if you get lynched. How is that consistent with his previous action? Why doesn't he care if he dies but cares enough to remove his meme vote.

All he did this game was game avoid. He shaded Alban but never voted him he . He never gave a catch up post or A read list. He is never in the thread but now that Im being wagoned he suddenly appears very promptly and coms up with some bs reason to vote me. THAT is very OPORTUNiSTIC.

Dave you could have made the same case against me all game. Why did you wait for this moment? Ill let you take your time to answer that.

[Toto]

VOTE: Dave

If my posts are illogical feel free to refute them. You are just trying to discredit my words. You should also answer my question. Why vote me now and not before?

@keine I never said Chill was a strong town read. I think I liked his posts more than other people I was looking at then that were also not being very active.

[Toto]

I wish I had more time to post and read through the full game but It is going to be a bad week at work.

Lynching for information would generally sound good to me however right now feels really stupid because I already know the result and I realize it is a bad idea anyway. We should lynch the scummiest read of each because THAT maximizes information for town.

If you think Im scummier than Dave by all means hammer me. I really hope you have a plan of what to do when I flip green. I would suggest lynching Dave tomorrow but I realize I may be tunneling here and it is your call.

If not the best thing for town is to vote your strongest scum read. There is 100% chance I will flip green. I realize you don't have to take my word for it but it is the truth.

I did not have other stronger scum read other than Dave. I was scum reading gamma before because of game avoiding and somewhat iioa comments, and also for that weird comment he made about someone bussing dave but lately gamma townesd up a bit. If Dave flips scum Transcend would be a good candidate to look at next.

I really don't know what to make of everyone else in my wagon right now since Im pretty pissed off by a this. But I doubt everyone in there really thinks Im scummier than others and there must be a good reason for why they are voting me.

[Toto]

Still alive!

Aubrey's reaction is a bit worrying but I think scum!Aubrey doesn't make sense because they would not try to get rid of me since Ive been openly town reading them.

Getting out of bed, will post more thoughts in a few hours.

[Toto]

Coz no one has answers or very weak reasons (e.g. Toto)

Explain why my reasons are weak. I admit that most of it is based on impressions but I don't consider my reasons weak.

[Toto]

nice scumclaim

Nice chainsaw

[Toto]

Your 768 is way too emphatic in conclusions, and 779 is not a good enough evidence to back such an emphatic townread on her. In fact, you are watering it down by saying, this doesn't mean she is town etc etc.

That post by itself is not evidence enough but combined with their general attitude of trying to sort things out, and a few other posts that I have liked, is what is giving me a town read. You can always find ways to refute whatever I will point out. I find it a lot easier and effective to townhunt than to scumhunt and I don't think Aubrey is a good lynch today. If you have something to convince me otherwise please do so.

[Toto]

My 1261 should already convey to you how I am convinced that Aubrey isn't a good lynch as of now, but how I am using your townread on him as a means to test your towniness.

And my point is that I already explained why I think they are more likely to be town so unless you have something to point out I don't see the point of this conversation. I can not prove she is town but I can only explain why I think she is town. We can go on like this forever.

[Toto]

Scumhunting is not working in this game.
Let's start with townreads.
Aubrey is being townread universally. Why?

LQ, Transcend, Toto and Keyen

have been especially confident in their townreads of Aubrey.
Would like everyone, especially these 4, to list their reasons for their reads on Aubrey.
I find him null. Everything he has done is NAI. If you think otherwise, feel free to contradict.

Also I find it weird that it was you that started this movement and I was the pretty much the only one that answered your question from that group, and you chose to focus on me. Why are you not questioning the rest?

[Toto]

So far my strongest lead has been Dave. I have tried to get answers from him but he is just avoiding the game. I summarized my case here: 1042.

Gamma has pinged me and I have questioned her but I think it is just their play-style.

Alban is pining me now, but I may be omgsing. Ever since he was wagoned and was TR by a few people (me included) he took a back sit and is keeping a low profile. We don't have PRs so I don't know why he would do that. His vote on me is very comfortable since he doesn't really provide a strong reason to keep it there and I feel he is tricking me with this town read business.

p-edit. My activity (number of posts) is low but I have provided content. I don't like posting fluff.

[Toto]

yeah, I was town.

[Toto]

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

[Toto]

I wish I had more time to post and read through the full game but It is going to be a bad week at work.

Lynching for information would generally sound good to me however right now feels really stupid because I already know the result and I realize it is a bad idea anyway. We should lynch the scummiest read of each because THAT maximizes information for town.

If you think Im scummier than Dave by all means hammer me. I really hope you have a plan of what to do when I flip green. I would suggest lynching Dave tomorrow but I realize I may be tunneling here and it is your call.

If not the best thing for town is to vote your strongest scum read. There is 100% chance I will flip green. I realize you don't have to take my word for it but it is the truth.

I did not have other stronger scum read other than Dave. I was scum reading gamma before because of game avoiding and somewhat iioa comments, and also for that weird comment he made about someone bussing dave but lately gamma townesd up a bit. If Dave flips scum Transcend would be a good candidate to look at next.

I really don't know what to make of everyone else in my wagon right now since Im pretty pissed off by a this. But I doubt everyone in there really thinks Im scummier than others and there must be a good reason for why they are voting me.

Not much has changed since here. Alban is really pinging me more now. He put me in a difficult situation: if I talk I get lynched. If I don't talk I get lynched too.

[Toto]

I wish I had more time to post and read through the full game but It is going to be a bad week at work.

Lynching for information would generally sound good to me however right now feels really stupid because I already know the result and I realize it is a bad idea anyway. We should lynch the scummiest read of each because THAT maximizes information for town.

If you think Im scummier than Dave by all means hammer me. I really hope you have a plan of what to do when I flip green. I would suggest lynching Dave tomorrow but I realize I may be tunneling here and it is your call.

If not the best thing for town is to vote your strongest scum read. There is 100% chance I will flip green. I realize you don't have to take my word for it but it is the truth.

I did not have other stronger scum read other than Dave. I was scum reading gamma before because of game avoiding and somewhat iioa comments, and also for that weird comment he made about someone bussing dave but lately gamma townesd up a bit. If Dave flips scum Transcend would be a good candidate to look at next.

I really don't know what to make of everyone else in my wagon right now since Im pretty pissed off by a this. But I doubt everyone in there really thinks Im scummier than others and there must be a good reason for why they are voting me.

Not much has changed since here. Alban is really pinging me more now. He put me in a difficult situation: if I talk I get lynched. If I don't talk I get lynched too.

[Toto]

Also, sorry I didn't mean to misgender anyone. It was not intentional, please don't take it personally.

[Toto]

I see D2 is going to be about as enjoyable as D1.

Dave Im sorry but if you are reading this you almost got me lynched yesterday by not cooperating and answering my questions and you got yourself lynched for the same reason. Your attitude is not helpful for town and game throwing. Im not sure whats the point of playing the game like you do.

@keine I dont know what questions Ive avoided answering so please clarify. Im on my mobile and cant find posts.

Key's posting today is worrying me a little bit. Also PLEASE swap your avi back to something else.

[Toto]

We lost a universal town read.

Something off about this post

[Toto]

Im not omgusing. That post just reads like you are explaining why you killed aubrey. Its a hunch but I think Im right.

Kein. You didn't answer what questions Im avoiding.

[Toto]

Lol I am not. What do you expect scum to do? Of course Kill the most protown here in the game. You're saying like it's not an obvious thing that scum would do.

Im not saying that. It makes sense but why did you decide to post that in the first place?

[Toto]

Kein I already answered the chill question on D1 and I never said I was strong tr him. I was looking at innactive slots and from those chilled few analytical posts gave me the better vibes.

[Toto]

People I have solid TRs on
ssbm
LQ
Toto
alban
Weaker TRs
KT
Chilledtea
SRs
Transcend
keyen
Not winning any Participation Awards
Deimos
Vedith

Why is sbbm so high in this list?

I had a slight tr on vedith d1 but I agree we havent seen much of him lately.

[Toto]

@vedith i did not notice you were in vl/a...

@trascend: explain. Im done with your naked voting bs.

VOTE: transcend

[Toto]

I AM OK WITH VOTING GAMMA....... or............. lick............!!! i will join the WAGON THAT BIGGER...... we just lynch ONE TODAY THE OTHER TOMORROW THEN WE WINll

What happened to Toto?

This is a good question

Im going to wait for slots to catch up but I think I can gamesolve soon. Alban/arc is pretty much conf town at this point

[Toto]

GAMESOLVE??????? do you disagree with MY READS

Why are you asking me? Is this a loaded question?

[Toto]

IF TOTO IS TOWN AND GAMMA IS TOWN AND DAVE IS TOWN THEN WHY GAMMA CHANGE THE RAILMENT OF THE DAVE WAGON???? that make no sense,,

Gamma thought dave was scummier than me. Mystery solved.

Also you have not even said why you are scum reading me in the first place.

[Toto]

My vote is on you because up until now you had not done shit in this game. Only empty reads and empty votes. Getting me lynched is not going to help town. You were TR Dave but didn't do much to save him when it really mattered. That's what scum would do in that situation.

[Toto]

You really want to die to prove yourself right. You are probably town.
UNVOTE:

[Toto]

My current best guess at the scum team is Transcend+Creature+KT.

This is mostly coming from Transcend and KT to be honest. Creature is a good player and he plays calmly as both alignments from what I've read and I don't know what to make of yet.

+ Transcend is not showing any attempt to seriously gamesolve (up until he got wagoned) or participate in the game. He has a very non-chalant attitude. Some people are town reading him for it, but I’m not so convinced. Something about his attitude doesn’t strike me as genuine. He was TRing Dave before we lynched him but didn’t do much to defend him in the end. The recent reaction is making me rethink this position but after watching the conviction in Gamma about his change in meta I'm going to stick with this.

+ Kt is gimmick account that is hard to read. He thinks I’m scum with LQ and gamma. My guess is that his play is to try to piss people off to get some better reads (Town) or get them ML (scum). I’m leaning on the latter. His reads have been inconsistent. Like pushing Gamma or LQ but not pushing me when his case on them is that they are my scum buddies. He is trying to push blame of Dave’s ML to other people.

+ Deimos was part of a

hydra that lurked

. His buddy left and now he left too. We are waiting for his replacement. Leaving the game may be a town tell, but the reason he left (boring) is giving me second thoughts. His participation in Alban's wagon was dubious and has not done much since then. Creature replaces and immediately top town reads Transcend to dig him out of the hole.

My top town read is Alban/Arc, because of the way he left the game in frustration. I just to don't see a scum leaving the game for those reasons, and the reactions during his wagon also looked townie to me. I had some mixed feelings after he took a step back but after his recent reaction I think he was just not satisfied with the game.

I have mixed feelings about Keyen/LQ/Gamma. Gamma's conviction look genuine to me and I trust him more now. LQ seems to share my suspicion that KT and Transcend are scummy. Keyen has had low content but his non-confrontational and apologetic attitude is giving me town vibes.

Chill has had low content but nothing that has really pinged me so far.

Vedith has not done much but I had an early TR on him when he replaced in and was asking questions.

[Toto]

lol, I understand the paranoia on Transcend, but Transcend + KainTepes?

They are the only ones that didn't vote dave in the final wagon and are both looking to get someone killed out of it.

[Toto]

I said nothing had pinged me about him so far. He seems to really not like deimos/you but other than that I haven't noticed anything odd. I have not really been keeping a close watch on everyone. Why do you ask?

[Toto]

One of these days we'll lynch scum together, Aubrey.

VOTE: Toto

Like how can you guys read this sentence and tell me this guy is not scum.

VOTE: transcend

[Toto]

Anyways, one thing I didn't like about toto's 1853 explanation is every recent read of his is supported by recent events such as replacing out, which is a very strange way of reading anyone and works only sometimes. It is not true that replacing out is a town tell, but most of the times they are town.

For what is worth I already had a TR on alban since his wagon, it was only during the time he was pushing me at end of D1 that I started having second thoughts. It is just the way Alban replaced out that gave me more certainty. He was finding the game frustrating and a mess, and I think it is way more likely for town to replace in that situation for those reasons than scum. Notice I also contrast that with Deimos leaving because he was just bored which actually could be a scum sign. Some people prefer the scumhunting part of the game and without that they find the game boring.

[Toto]

Honestly I'm having second thoughts about toto now and I'm considering the possibility that maybe he's just a really bad player. 1857 is all kinds of ew.

Which game are you referring to here? I didn't play 1857.

[Toto]

Okay, let's lynch scum then.

VOTE: Vedith

Why are you SR Vedith?

[Toto]

He looks very different.

Looks?

[Toto]

VOTE: Creature

I think I can roll with this. I don't like the SR pool specially since Vedith and Chilled are the ones that have expressed most concern about Deimos before. Also the way he top town read Transcend and then voted him doesn't make any sense.

[Toto]

I am usually paranoid of Transcend, but I find posts like 1765 towny.

How is 1765 townie?

[Toto]

I think we are at L-1.

[Toto]

This wagon grew too fast. Will be online later.

UNVOTE:

[Toto]

I am usually paranoid of Transcend, but I find posts like 1765 towny.

How is 1765 townie?

Creature ^^^

[Toto]

Also why is chilled scum?

[Toto]

Kain is prob town with his efforts although it is wiser to be cautious with him. His trollish play is really unfortunate.

I think he is smarter than he pretends to be.

[Toto]

would be nice to hear from arc

[Toto]

I have a slight town read on LQ based on that reaction, and also the way he seems frustrated by KT's attack on him. That said, I agree with Chill that there is something odd about LQ's personality. I think he just tends to avoid answering questions directly and I can't put a finger on to why that bothers me, but looking at his other games I think it is just the way he is.

If LQ flips scum this is probably getting me lynched at some point but this just doesn't feel right to me.

[Toto]

That theory being that you 2 were acting suspicious around the alban wagon, and that you guys orchestrated the Toto thing to pocket him and flip the lynch onto another easy lynch in Dave.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would they let me live when my lynch was all but done?

[Toto]

Also

LQ is thread dodging and i think that vote puts him at L2.

Don't know what to tell you. I play my best when Scum hunting is happening by a lot of people and it seems people are mostly just giving opinions and I find that hard to keep track of.

Do you have any scum reads to offer?

[Toto]

Explain your cases. Why vedith?

[Toto]

Why Toto?

He's getting away with the minimal.

Minimal what?

[Toto]

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

[Toto]

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

You are irritated that I am right. That is what I am talking about.

I just don't understand what you mean by "getting away with the minimal".

[Toto]

I see what you mean about his

tone being the minimal

What does this mean?

[Toto]

LQ's lack of proper defense and scum-hunting is starting to worry me. Looks like caught scum minimizing the damage.

At the same time I didn't like Alisae's entrance here. Sheeping the largest wagon like that w/o catching up seems opportunistic. A green flip here will have me looking at that slot tomorrow.

Also that comment about "going to catch up before policy lynch" looks like she is expecting a green flip here.

[Toto]

Also I was getting obvtown vibes from her in our newbie and Im not getting those here.

Alisae. Would be good to see a catch up post from you.

[Toto]

Scumreads and townreads

[Toto]

With explanations

[Toto]

I don't need a full list but top 2 would be a good start.

[Toto]

Im deciding between you and LQ at the moment. I was voting creature before but decided the wagon was growing too fast and decided to unvote.

You need to explain that creature town read though.

[Toto]

Origonally it was that they PR told to me.
But then I just noticed there aren't any PRs in the set up.
So that was what that theory was based off of, but now that it's complete trash, time to re-evaluate.

What was giving you the PR read?

[Toto]

Origonally it was that they PR told to me.
But then I just noticed there aren't any PRs in the set up.
So that was what that theory was based off of, but now that it's complete trash, time to re-evaluate.

What was giving you the PR read?

This

I don't care who I vote. I just want to make sure it isn't a mislynch.

I don't understand why you see that as a PR tell but the fact you are looking for PRs may be a good thing.

[Toto]

I think that if there was a bus it was probably in Alisae,key,sbbm.

Alisae jumping in and voting without catching up is still suspicious to me. The reasoning behind the vote was not really strong.
Key voting in when the lynch was pretty much set could also be a bus. But seems less likely. He could have pretended to be vla.
Sbbm was pushing the lynch hard but he is also lining up lynches afterwards.
Chill voted and didnt make a deal about it. Didn't feel she was trying to distance too hard.
Kain was pushing the lynch hard all along
Transcend was also pushing the slot hard since D1.

From people outside the wagon I would say creature over gamma.

[Toto]

can you explain this?

Why are you voting for Toto?

^^^^

[Toto]

That question is for keyen

[Toto]

I have not had a lot of time to play lately. I'm visiting family and they are actually trying to get me lynched irl whenever I spend too much time on the phone.

[Toto]

VOTE: Alisae

She really just feels wrong.

Can you explain this? Any particular post?

[Toto]

Don't like how the Alisae wagon formed

What don't you like about it?

[Toto]

On Alisaes fake hammer. Either they knew that it was fake hammer and they are scum or they didn't know and they are town. Lynching scum here wins the game.

[Toto]

1. Who have I scumread for scumreading my SR again?
2. I felt as if he was trying to derail the Toto wagon D1 and that seemed off to me.
3. I voted him because I thought he was scum due to reasoning I explained? What, are you not supposed to vote your scumreads?

Just wanted to address this : You scum read ssbm because he was trying to derail the toto wagon, and you scum read toto because of ssbm, right? Circular logic doesn't work.

Yes I scumread that.
But it wasn't that Kyouko derailed it and because of that I scumread toto.
It's because Toto followed up on a vote on Dave. Like I checked the VC after Kyouko origonally voted Dave. First it went Kyouko then Toto.

I voted dave because he voted me for what I thought was a scummy reason. I explained this in my vote post I think.

[Toto]

Creature has a weird playstyle and is hard for me to read. Between him and gamma I think I'd still prefer creature because I agree with gamma not giving shit about the game. Also something is odd about the Alisae fake hammer. Still cant articulate what though. But why fake hammer in a situation where scum lynch wins the game?

[Toto]

I understand the general principle but it just seemed like doomed to fail in this situation

[Toto]

If alisae is scum she would double check everything because is lose the game in that case

[Toto]

If alisae is scum HE would double check everything because is lose the game in that case

Sorry

[Toto]

If alisae is scum she would double check everything because is lose the game in that case

BTW I can WIFOM this all day.

Not sure what you are trying to say. You can wifom pretty much anything.

[Toto]

Kay, I'm not okay with a Creature Lynch.
Also I like the point that Kain hopped on Quickety about.
VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Okay so Alisae came in without reading the whole page and voted LQ without any logical reason. I don't know if this is a 'show-off' or what but do scum vote their scum partners especially knowing you just got replaced in and you have a fresh mind of knowing your scum mates, and then you'll vote for him? Hmmmmmm...

Creature replaced Deimos and Alisae replaced Vedith. As you can see through Deimos's and Vedith's ISO, Vedith is actually bussing or pressuring and voting Deimos, which there's a possibility that Alisae and Creature are not scum partners. Considering Lethargy nor Deimos posted useful contents.

It's mind changing for me

. And I town read Alisae. I like Alisae's frendly side but not for the game. Creature, on the other hand, is being inconsistent (?).

UNVOTE:

Also, I've been saying since D2 that Toto is town. I might actually re-look at it.

As for Gamma... Idk. He actually didn't post worthy-contents since the start of D3.

I don't think Alisae + creature makes sense either. But why would the lack of association change your mind about Alisae?

[Toto]

I don't follow why if creature+alisae are not scumbuddies then aliase is not scum

[Toto]

Wow lots of new content.

I need to get on a desktop to analyze creature's wagon on D2. It dismantled because I thought the wagon was forming too fast to be 100%town.

I expect that there was likely a scum in that wagon regardless of creature alignment just because of the speed. But if creature is scum the most likely busser would be in gamma/key I think. I don't expect chilled to redirect the wagon from one of his partners to the other. Aliase could still make some sense given the way he joined the game by immediately voting (I still don't get key's analysis). Given today's actions key doesnt seem likely. So that would mean that it is either c+a or c+g

@Alisae why did you unvote creature just now though? It seems like you unvoted because he just town read you.

If creature is town then it could really be anyone. But again, I don't think it would be chilled unless it was crazy gambit.

Im leaning on lynching inside creature/key/gamma/alisae today.

@mod/shadowez

an updated vc would be great

[Toto]

I just checked Gamma's last post on site was on Dec 31. Right before he got run up to l-1.

[Toto]

I can't post much today but will be back at full speed tomorrow.

It's probably creature+X for what I can see. X = {alisae, sbbm, keyen}. Unless LQ got double-bused. Then it's probably alisae+sbbm.

[Toto]

Creature and Toto I want you to start looking for potential busses since you can 100% absolutely ascertain that there was a bus on day 2.

I already addressed this on day 3.

[Toto]

Basically who bussed depends on whether creature is scum or not because creature was being wagoned before LQ and some people switched from creature to LQ.

Ill explain in more details tomorrow I can't today. Sorry.

[Toto]

Im waking up. Ive not been silent. Ive been busy travelling and visiting family. Every time I look at this thread someone else is being wagoned. Thats one of the reasons Ive not been voting lately. I was pretty much vl/a most of d3 and didnt get a chance to sit down and try to game solve.

So please. At least let me play the freaking game before you hammer me.

Looking at my wagon today there seems to be little ressistance other than from Transcend. So unless he is doing that to gain towncred he is probably town. I also had a conditonal town read on him given creature town. Reason is he also resisted creatures hammer when lq was the counter wagon.

I have to go but want to look at alisae, sbbm, key and kt later.

[Toto]

Here is my analysis of the LQ wagon.

KT: Votes LQ immediately after I unvote Creature.
Transcend: Resists hammering Creature. He switches vote to Vedith/Alisae after I unvote creature and then to LQ when he notes that Vedith is empty slot and also prompted by Chilled. This is the second vote on LQ.
Chilled: switches from Creature to LQ after Transcend joins wagon. Chilled prompts transcend to join LQ.
Creature: Votes chilled, then votes Sbbm.
Sbbm: Switches from Creature to LQ after being prompted by Transcend.
Alisae/Vedith. Vedith was pushing creature/lethargy hard. Then replaces out. Then Alisae sheeps KT and puts LQ at L-1 immediately after joining.
key: comes out of VL/A and hammers after I point out LQ reaction was scummy.

From the behavior it seems to me there is a busser in the last 3 {sbbm, alisae, key}. Those are the votes I find more suspicious and least reasoned.

@Transcend: I've been playing since my join date here.

[Toto]

DO you think there is only ONE SCUMMER between SSBM and ALISAE and KEY,, or do you think the TWO OF THEM CAN BE WITHIN,, explain,, because right now if you are not SCUM i think the most likely COMBINATION is ALISAE AND MAYBE KYOUKO,, who are both not very heavy with the LYNCH OF THE LICK,, especially KYOUKO who arrived with some reluctance

Also, again, creature's alignment is important here. Because if creature is scum then it means either someone was busing creature AND LQ, or the remaining team is You/Transcend + Creature. So basically there are three possible scum teams profiles:

1. scum!Creature + {double team busser} = {key, sbbm, alisae} : bused both creature and LQ.
2. Town creature => double LQ bus. Transcend resistance to hammer creature makes me less worried in this case, and also the fact that Transcend was also pushing LQ on D1.
3. scum!Creature + {KT, Trancend} : bused LQ but not creature. Transcend resistance to hammer makes me a bit more worried in this case.

Vedith was pushing creature/lethargy hard so that makes him the least likely in option (1)

I also don't think Transcend is scum if creature is town, so that rules him out of option (2).

For option (3) I think KT is more likely than transcend given Transcend made other people join the wagon.

[Toto]

That's a good read Toto.

Do you have a case on Creature?

I have mixed feelings about creature's alignment but I still feel his entrance was a bit scummy, and feel that the effort that he is putting to fake hammer could be for show (to gain towncred). His wagon grew too fast so that makes me think it's either option (1) or (2).

[Toto]

Assuming creature is town:

Alisae+Sbbm
Alisae+Key
KT+Alisae
KT+Sbbm
KT+Key

sbbm+Key <-- SBBM is pushing key now, so not sure about this.

[Toto]

I don't know which of the fake hammers you are talking about. He is been doing that to every wagon.

[Toto]

VOTE: Creature

I think I can roll with this. I don't like the SR pool specially since Vedith and Chilled are the ones that have expressed most concern about Deimos before. Also the way he top town read Transcend and then voted him doesn't make any sense.

He joined and was SR Alisae and Chilled who were the ones voting and SR lethargy/creature's slot

[Toto]

This game has made me immune to fake hammers

[Toto]

If Creature is town it is probably Alisae. Key why are you town reading creature?

I agree with KT that Alisae's posting is very different from the newbie we played before she was walling a lot there and asking a lot more questions. I don't see the same level of game solving here.

VOTE: Alisae

[Toto]

You are also sheeping a lot more here. In the other game you had a much more contrarian attitude with very strong reads and opinions. I don't see the same personality here.

What's your read on Key?

[Toto]

Creature's death is weird. KT+Transcend could make some sense. They are the ones that kept pushing me everyday and specially the day after Dave got lynched, which was probably a set up to get me lynched later.

@Transcend. Why are you sure saying there HAD to be three scum in Dave's wagon?. Of the people living now 3 were outside the wagon and 2 inside.

[Toto]

Kain pushes me all day yesterday.
And then Toto suddenly joins in on the pressure with Kain.

I've been fosing you since you joined the game.

[Toto]

Kain pushes me all day yesterday.
And then Toto suddenly joins in on the pressure with Kain.

I've been fosing you since you joined the game.

Kain talks and you suddenly appear yesterday to vote me

What he said resonated with me because in our newbie you were obvious town while here you are not.

[Toto]

Do you have scum games you can link?

[Toto]

This rules out key+Transcend and Alisae+Transcend for me. Given Transcend would have voted kain.

I don't see key and alisae gambiting here (pushing KT). So it's either KT+Transcend or key+alisae. I guess Key+KT could also still be an option given he unvoted quickly.

[Toto]

I'm considering KT+Transcend.

I'm hoping the first 3 players of the playerlist weren't all scum after all.

Playerlist:

Transcend
KainTepes Cracker* Wyvernite
LicketyQuickety Eric Rasputin

Aubrey
Creature Deimos27 Lethargy (hydra of Clemency* and Deimos27*)
Alisae Vedith ScumDeersAreVeryTasty**
Toto
ssbm_Kyouko
ArcAngel9 alban
PsychoticDave
keyenpeydee
chilledtea
Gamma Emerald

[Toto]

The only thing I don't understand is why you would both bus LQ like that. Specially having creature at near lynch. But then again LQ also fake hammered me when I was probably getting lynched anyway.

[Toto]

Not hammering.

[Toto]

I'm ok writing off Kain+Alisae too. Keyen+Kain is also risky but the quick unvotes have me doubting.

[Toto]

Toto what makes you think it might be me and Kain?

I had you as town yesterday given the behavior around creature's and LQ wagon but given Kain didn't die it makes me more suspicious of him, and his most likely partner now is you. There is also that quote from Creature which makes me paranoid.

[Toto]

This is giving me a headache. If I vote Key and Transcend+KT are scum we lose. If I vote Kain same thing with Alisea+Key.

[Toto]

I isoed you a little bit didn't learn much tbh. I'll be back and try to solve this in a few hours.

[Toto]

VOTE: key sorry

[Toto]

Toto who were you scum with?

I am afraid of SAYING HIS NAME!!!!,, you DON'T KNOW what IT'S like in THE MAFIA THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Toto]

Shit. I would find KT hard to read myself.

[Toto]

That would be fun to watch! in fact when you do let's /in together

[Toto]

OMG you had to shame me like this!

[Toto]

5 head hydra sounds fun though

[Toto]

KOTON TEPES!!!

[Toto]

LOL

[Toto]

I updated mine. I don't see it though.

[Toto]

Ok I think it shows now

[Toto]

Wp toto you dun tricked me after i had you the whole fucking game

I peed my pants a little bit if it helps

[Toto]

How could you do that to another dog, though?

[Toto]

Note to self: sheep transcend gut reads blindy. I'll win 10/13 times.

[Toto]

Fuck my life seriously why am i a lose magnet recently

I truly think you are the best. You just got unlucky this time. It's called having a downswing in the online poker world: http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/ps ... ownswings/ but it probably applies here given is an imperfect information game with some randomness in it too.

[Toto]

Wp Lq. I feel your lynch was partly my fault playing cute with Creatures wagon and then defending you