Micro 673: Bee Movie Mafia (Game Over)

[GuiltyLion]

/confirm

[GuiltyLion]

Neither of them are a bee though.

VOTE: GuiltyLion
If we can vote now

why is guilty a better vote than dunn or creature?

didn't like this post. I think a townie who wanted to build a wagon would ask something in the vein of "why not vote dunn/creature", rather than assuming Max's vote wasn't RVS and that he had a "better" reason to vote me. Feels like a leading question.

VOTE: Nitroglycerin

[GuiltyLion]

hello hello

I don't really see how that's a different question or what I asked is leading...?

Voting for you at that point is an empty vote at that time, while I think the other two options had posted enough content to develop an opinion of them...

i'm assuming that people are making what they feel is the best vote unless they say otherwise... Correct me if I'm wrong but that's a totally normal assumption?? but basically why make an empty vote if there's already AI content? i think that's a completely valid question

plus all you posted was a confirm so i'm not really sure why someone would make a non-rvs vote on you at that stage

it's basically how you assumed that it wasn't an RVS vote that I have a problem with. Like I just looked at it - a vote on me, mind you - and assumed it was RVS because I had only posted a confirm. Further, poking on someone "for making an RVS vote when we're past RVS" seems like the classic easy/shallow hook into the game that scum would want to use in order to look town.

@Everyone, I have 4 townreads so this game is basically won

ew @this as well

[GuiltyLion]

like some people "got serious" (me) while others are still random voting (Maxous, Beeboy). i disagree that not everyone posted btw, but not everyone is really in a non-RVS mindset yet

like here now you're making a new assumption that maxous is random voting, so clearly in your head his GL vote was random too, which renders your original question kinda pointless

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: ThinkBig

I actually didn't like Beeboy's reaction all that much, it's cute n' brings out something rather genuine but a ThinkBig going so aggressively is something I'd like to hear everyone commenting on.

I like beeboy's points against ThinkBig, agree with them myself

P-EDIT: I didn't make the mental jump, you expressed it in your post. "Why is Guilty a

better

vote" implies that Max had kind of reasoning behind his vote, putting words in his mouth, that's why I called it a leading question

[GuiltyLion]

oh fuck i just slipped my read on guilty which is why i didn't want to give a readlist zzzzzz

so yeah i'll go in-depth here since i'm no longer in class

{Max, Drone} - Town
{HS, Beeboy, TB} - Townlean
{GuiltyLion, Dunnstral} - Scumlean
{Creature} - Scum

Spoiler: Explanations since i got verbose :dead:

Max just straight up has good tone and is voting my top scumread out of his own volition. Not a complicated read. 124 was kind of derpy for his join date imo but I don't think that's scummy

Drone's questions are pretty legit so far. I liked the second question in #93, like it was kind of generic but the "in your own eyes" part I think shows that he's trying to make TB hone in on something actually AI and analyze something. 94 was a good catch too and the way Drone asked about it didn't read as though he was trying to dig shit up on TB to make him look bad. I also felt like he was trying to figure me out in our conversation. Plus I had a moonlogic townread on him for putting a period at the end of his confirmation

HS has good tone and the way they've been posting feels natural. I liked the timing of their RVS post for example, though I'm taking into account that Shadow says that's within their scum range and I honestly believe it. That and the fact that I feel disconnected to all of their reads though are stopping them from being a stronger tr

Beeboy I talked about basically, the nonchalantness of his Dunn vote I also liked but it's probably within his range as scum

TB had a really obvtown entrance. Like I don't think scum would have thought "Oh I got my role PM? Better post in the thread and vote!" since they have a PT to talk in, especially without a daystart PM or the mod posting something about a confirmation phase. Plus the eagerness of that post meshes with that interpretation. He really just needs to post thoughts beyond "Naked votes are scummy" for me to double down on (or reject) that read.

GL's vote was kind of shit... I played with GL before and I know he uses linguistics to scumhunt and so I know it's a valid method. maybe i'm in a biased position since i know shadow and I are town but here it felt kind of reachy and I already addressed why I didn't think the read made much sense anyway. Also the fact that he didn't engage with anything else in thread looks like scum making what looks like well-thought out analysis but not really doing anything with it...? it just feels incomplete. Plus I really doubt that town scumreading this slot ignores Shadow's knee-jerk reaction to HS's question directed at me, it's something I'd be weary about if I were in another town slot.

Dunn I've already explained

Creature's most likely playing to his scum meta here. His confirmation posts were bad (19 was something pretty obvious and 20 felt really forced in context) and felt like he was just trying to inflate his post count after I made a (scientifically inaccurate btw that's not how statistics work at all) post about his tell. feels self-concious. 134 also felt like Creature forgot how his thought process as town works. like there's no brute forcing "well which townreads work? let's cross them off", he just went straight to "well let's pick a random suspect and see how it works out." just doesn't feel like the way i've seen the gears turn in creature's head in the past. basically creature here seems more interested in inflating his post count rather than scumhunting and letting it go up naturally

@HS, I know you've meta'd Creature for that Newbie since I watched it, so what do you think of my read on him? Do you at least see where I'm coming from?

@TB, even though I already gave you my perspective I still would like to see if you concur or disagree. I emphasize that I mean concur because I'm hoping to see what unique viewpoint you bring since "Yeah pretty much what you said" doesn't help. If that's the truth then it is what it is but i'd just like to confirm my gutread on you

@Drone,

I don't remember this level of early-game tryhard from town!you in Mystery Box. Like your section on me is a paragraph that literally reduces down to OMGUS. Also a lot of over-explaining townreads, I feel like that is much more likely to be buddying than it is useful content for later this game.

[GuiltyLion]

Is it a bad assumption to make that people will always make the best vote from their vantage point?

bad? I dunno. scummy? yes. Like I don't want to get bogged down into a huge argument over the logical validity of this, the simple fact of the matter is I didn't like the way you made this assumption about Maxuous making the "best vote" or whatever and then used that to ask him a question. feels forced, feels unnatural.

Dunn I like the bee puns, keep it up

[GuiltyLion]

Not when it's an RVS vote! It felt like trying to make something out of nothing, and now both of you are going way overboard arguing/defending it and also spamming the thread trying to force everyone into reads when it's still super early in the game.

Basically what Dunn said a few pages ago, stop arguing with everything I say and actually do something townie. Constant posting and over analysis of everything isn't townie.

[GuiltyLion]

honestly i think my issue with GL's initial post was more like

the minimalism behind it? rather than the reasoning behind the vote. i mean obviously i know it's a wrong vote and i can see just like a linguistic dissonance in how GL and I communicate/view Mafia theory affecting how town!GL views me but like i feel like he's walking on eggshells here if that makes sense.

just shocked that it engaged with so little. as town joining in late i probably would have dug up more on my scumread and that's why i'm still surprised (and kind of peeved) that there's no commentary on Shadow's posting on here. i'd like to know why you haven't said anything about it GL.

either way i'm not going to really entertain a lynch on Dunn/GL today because i think strongarming creature first is the better play here

Like this is what I'm talking about as another example of forcing people into reads, it was my first real post of the game and I wouldn't at all call you a full on "scumread" when I made that post. You're acting like I was convinced you were/are scum when I was just trying to get a vote down on the first thing that pinged me. Also the conviction in scum!Creature at this point in time just doesn't feel natural to me. I don't have a read on Creature either way yet but that's because you're almost suffocating the thread. If you're town then let others do stuff for a while and talk to Creature themselves

Which shadow post are you talking about that you want me to comment on again?

[GuiltyLion]

good to know i'm conf town for the scum hammer, and that beeboy is scum.
makes this game easy as fuck.
beeboy is scum, i'm no longer reading the thread tbh.
i kinda want this game to be over.

Spoiler: BEEZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYnEdHV8U-I

VOTE: beeboy

I think this is too cheeky to be coming from a Creature partner

These creature votes are kinda weird he hasn't really done anything this game to indicate his alignment.
Although him not doing anything isn't a horrible reason to vote him I guess.

On the other hand, this looks to me like what a Creature partner would say, especially if they weren't expecting a mid-day quickhammer

VOTE: beeboy

[GuiltyLion]

also I am sheeping Dunnstral on no mass claim today

[GuiltyLion]

probably cause I haven't had time to post that much

I'm glad nitro was town and powerlynched scum on D1, but I couldn't deal with them being so hung up on my first vote

[GuiltyLion]

How come you put beeboy at l-1?

How are you so sure

imagine you're me and town

who of the other 4 players is most likely to be scum?

Do you disagree with my points about HS and beeboy?

[GuiltyLion]

@guilty
How's HS towny?
The quick hammer can possibly be a bus especially since Creature's partner realised that Creature's a goner.

It could possibly be a bus, I just rank that as less likely than beeboy being the partner. If it was a planned bus, I doubt HS starts off D2 with that post. It just feels like it's too aggressively trying to grab towncred for the hammer.

[GuiltyLion]

also, I feel 271 was genuine and beeboy's "the interaction leading up to the hammer was pretty legit tho" is an effort to buddy HS.

[GuiltyLion]

I don't believe Human Sequencer is a SK

[GuiltyLion]

I am not claiming unless we mass claim.

Hmmm I'd probably vote GL his read shift on me feels really fake and opportunistic.

Why don't you explain why you call it "fake"?

Again, if you're town and in my slot, who would be most likely to be remaining scum? I don't think Drone or Dunn bussed, and HS suggests Dunn can confirm him as town. You're caught scum.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm Youtube, a vig, I shot ThinkBig. should have been obvious from me crumbing that there was only 1 scum left

I disagree that vig needed to claim right away. If we mislynched today if left alive I could have confirmed myself in LYLO (or if scum CC, at least narrow the lynchpool to 50-50). I got a bit of a rolefish vibe from Drone pushing on it so if it's not beeboy I'd flip Drone tomorrow.

[GuiltyLion]

hey, great game all! I do think this felt sided in my favor, I was worried Dunn had some kind of knowledge of 3p given how he kept talking about 3 scum but I went with the vig claim anyway as it felt like the best way to avoid being lynched D2.

Thanks for modding Aero. Enjoyable flavor from you, as always

fun game for sure, sorry i got too excited about it d1 if that made it unfun for anyone

dude no worries about this, I kinda riffed on it as an excuse for my lurky play. You lynched scum D1 and if you had survived N1 you would have been a major thorn for me, I'm sure. It was fun playing with you

[GuiltyLion]

Player who did nothing won, Drone did much better tbh

meh IMO I thought a lot on N2 about the choice for last scum between HS and Drone, but Drone gave himself away with 218 and 219. also beeboy's responses to me on D2 were pretty obvtown, he didn't deserve to be lynched

[GuiltyLion]

like my main worry on D2 was lynching scum and getting turbolynched on D3, but once I figured out beeboy was town but the mislynch could go through anyway I knew I was good

[GuiltyLion]

yah but regardless I read it correctly after mulling it over for almost the entirety of the night phase, you can't take that from me

[GuiltyLion]

the real tragedy of this game was I didn't make more use of my secret deadline-shortening power. no one caught it on D1

[GuiltyLion]

also tb was a terrible vig shot imo, reaction to creature's twilight trolling was genuine af

when i say this

i also mean it was the right kill to make for SK

mostly because in GL's position he can sell itnas a vig while saving Beeboy and Drone for MLs

also yeah, my thoughts exactly. TB was the perfect plausible vig shot while being someone that I was 90-95% sure was town and wouldn't be killed by mafia.

[GuiltyLion]